Is Haas Becoming Outdated?

[ProfessorFart]

Whilst I agree the Hass remains essential to the learner of Thai, there are now more than 40 years of language and cultural evoution which need to be accounted for.

More and more when reading modern Thai texts I find it less and less of an asset and I find myself having to reach for inferior dictionaries (those aimed at Thais learning English) simply because whilst Hass can give me a word definition, the context in which some words are used has widened or shifted.

Consider how much English (or your own mother tongue) has changed over the years and imagine being a foreign learner with only a 40 year old dictionary to help you.

Its high time scholars of Thai got their heads together and updated Hass if you ask me.

[ProfessorFart]

Hass? I mean 'Haas' of course!

Thanks to RichardW for pointing out the typo!

[Tywais]

Seems others agree, including myself. Quote from:

http://www.poetryconnection.net/Reviews/It...74/ReviewPage/2

" Best Thai dictionary out there for non-native Thais

In the midst of a plethora of poorly written and poorly documented Thai dictionaries, very few have been written with the serious non-native student of the Thai language. This dictionary fortunately fits the bill, and was my "bible" during a two year stay in Thailand. It shows Thai words both in Thai script and most importantly, in a clear and consistent romanization. Translations are given in plain non-dictionary type English. One the best Thai language references available. One only wishes for two things; More sentence examples, and a updated version which would cover many of the newer additions and changes in the Thai language. The last publication date for this book was listed in 1964. Despite this shortcoming, it has held up amazingly well"

Also for those interested in her biography:

http://www.nap.edu/html/biomems/mhaas.html

[NguuMuu]

Although I have never seen any of her books, I would say they are becoming outdated simply because I have not been able to find them anywhere. I have searched high and low throughout Bangkok for any of her books. When something is out of print and hard to find (i.e. not many people want to buy it), a major reason is that it has become outdated.

[ProfessorFart]

Asia books stock the dictionary at approx 2000B. Her other books can be found online at the likes of Amazon.com etc.

I'm pretty sure they aren't out of print but as you say there isn't much demand for them.

[withnail]

I tried at Asia books on Sukhumvit Road a few weeks ago and they said they would have to order it from somewhere. They rang me the next day and quoted 4000 Baht so I said no. It definately isn't out of print because you can find it on the Stanford University Press website.

http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?book_id=0567%20%20

However if anyone knows of a shop that currently stocks it please let me know.

I have seen a copy of it and whilst I am sure it is slightly outdated in some respects it is certainly still a must have for students of Thai.

[Sunderland]

I tried at Asia books on Sukhumvit Road a few weeks ago and they said they would have to order it from somewhere. They rang me the next day and quoted 4000 Baht so I said no. It definately isn't out of print because you can find it on the Stanford University Press website.

http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?book_id=0567%20%20

However if anyone knows of a shop that currently stocks it please let me know.

I have seen a copy of it and whilst I am sure it is slightly outdated in some respects it is certainly still a must have for students of Thai.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haas used to be a full back at Sunderland, ya naa. Swiss international, 'n all. Wye aye man ..

[sabaijai]

I've always preferred McFarland to Haas, by a long shot. Better and longer definitions, more entries, more exacting.

Both are pretty out of date though. I rarely use McFarland any more (used Haas only for 1st-year Thai), and can usually get what I need from RID. About the only time I haul out my dog-eared McF is when I need the Latin name for a common Thai plant and none of my other references has it (or they're incomplete). His dictionary is amazing when it comes to plants, trees, herbs and the like. But also everyday vocab.

[Johpa]

Its high time scholars of Thai got their heads together and updated Hass if you ask me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely! It is an embarassment that there has been no update.

[withnail]

I've always preferred McFarland to Haas, by a long shot. Better and longer definitions, more entries, more exacting.

Both are pretty out of date though. I rarely use McFarland any more (used Haas only for 1st-year Thai), and can usually get what I need from RID. About the only time I haul out my dog-eared McF is when I need the Latin name for a common Thai plant and none of my other references has it (or they're incomplete). His dictionary is amazing when it comes to plants, trees, herbs and the like. But also everyday vocab.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excuse me for sounding stupid but RID???

[sabaijai]

I've always preferred McFarland to Haas, by a long shot. Better and longer definitions, more entries, more exacting.

Both are pretty out of date though. I rarely use McFarland any more (used Haas only for 1st-year Thai), and can usually get what I need from RID. About the only time I haul out my dog-eared McF is when I need the Latin name for a common Thai plant and none of my other references has it (or they're incomplete). His dictionary is amazing when it comes to plants, trees, herbs and the like. But also everyday vocab.

Excuse me for sounding stupid but RID???

RID = Royal Institute Dictionary. It's the ultimate printed authority on the Thai lexicon. Thai-Thai only.

The most recent update was BE 2543 (five years ago). The 1436-page print version was available at any decent Thai bookstore - and a steal at just THB600 - but only 200,000 were printed so the supply may be getting thin by now. I suppose they will print more when the supply runs low enough.

An abridged version was available online until recently. On the RI's home page www.royin.go.th/th/home/ there's still a menu item for 'dictionary' but it leads nowhere, unfortunately.

Once you know Thai well enough to use the RID, you'll realise how relatively puny the Haas dictionary is. I'd rather see George McFarland's Thai-English dictionary updated. Better yet, someone should compile an entirely new one, based on the RID.

Some older foreign students of Thai share a nostalgia for the Mary Haas and George McFarland tomes. For portable, up-to-date Thai-English dics, however, Benjawa Poomsan Becker's Thai-English English-Thai Dictionary for Non-Thai Speakers, Revised Edition is the best choice. Most beginners, I think, will find it more usable than Haas (or even McFarland, for that matter).

[ProfessorFart]

McFarland was the predecessor of Haas and whilst a good dictionary in its own right is really used as an antiquity for wont of a better word.

Haas is considered the 'modern' dictionary but even that is outdated now.

I agree with Sabaijai that Becker's dictionary is good but only for a direct translation. It won't fill in any gaps though.

[withnail]

I have Becker's dictionary and it is brilliant for everyday use but it has proved useless to me now I am learning to read and write for I am constantly coming across new words which do not sound familiar to me.

I need to know if a word is formal or informal and whether it is in common use because for a learner with as small a vocabulary as mine I think it's important to be able to prioritise words that I will more likely hear or have to use in daily life.

[Johpa]

RID = Royal Institute Dictionary. It's the ultimate printed authority on the Thai lexicon. Thai-Thai only. ....

Once you know Thai well enough to use the RID, you'll realise how relatively puny the Haas dictionary is. I'd rather see George McFarland's Thai-English dictionary updated. Better yet, someone should compile an entirely new one, based on the RID.

Some older foreign students of Thai share a nostalgia for the Mary Haas and George McFarland tomes. For portable, up-to-date Thai-English dics, however, Benjawa Poomsan Becker's Thai-English English-Thai Dictionary for Non-Thai Speakers, Revised Edition is the best choice. Most beginners, I think, will find it more usable than Haas (or even McFarland, for that matter).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Haas desk dictionary is what the title states, a student dictionary. It is intended for college students taking Thai courses and for other serious students learning Thai. As such, with or without nostalgia, and I have spent time with the McFarland dictionary also, it remains the best one out there in my opinion . Those learning in Thailand will also benefit from a portable dictionary of which there are several to choose from.

The RID is a completely different animal. To try to put down a student's Thai-English dictionary because it is puny compared to the RID is simply preposterous. It is akin to stating that studying an asteroid is not worthy because you can study a planet. I would love to see an academic translation of the RID into a Thai-English dictionary. But I also still enjoy the funnest part about the Haas, the grouping of words and phrases using the same root.

[sabaijai]

RID = Royal Institute Dictionary. It's the ultimate printed authority on the Thai lexicon. Thai-Thai only. ....

Once you know Thai well enough to use the RID, you'll realise how relatively puny the Haas dictionary is. I'd rather see George McFarland's Thai-English dictionary updated. Better yet, someone should compile an entirely new one, based on the RID.

Some older foreign students of Thai share a nostalgia for the Mary Haas and George McFarland tomes. For portable, up-to-date Thai-English dics, however, Benjawa Poomsan Becker's Thai-English English-Thai Dictionary for Non-Thai Speakers, Revised Edition is the best choice. Most beginners, I think, will find it more usable than Haas (or even McFarland, for that matter).

The Haas desk dictionary is what the title states, a student dictionary. It is intended for college students taking Thai courses and for other serious students learning Thai. As such, with or without nostalgia, and I have spent time with the McFarland dictionary also, it remains the best one out there in my opinion.

I agree. When Haas came out it may have been more up to date than McFarland since it was published roughly 20 years later, but by now they're both antiques.

Come to think of it I've only found two or three entries in McFarland that I would consider out of date. The vast majority of the entries are still spot on. It's still the standard, if you need a Thai-English desk dictionary. I don't know why anyone beyond a first- or second-year Thai student would want to have Haas on hand. It's McFarland for the desk, Becker for portability and RID when you realise all the Thai-English dics are deficient by comparison.

[merlin1]

This is a small point, but I never liked using Haas because the typeface was so cheap and ugly looking, like it was printed on an old gestetner machine. And update is indeed well overdue!

[meadish_sweetball]

It WAS printed using an old technique. I can understand what Sabaijai is saying, I wish to get to the stage where I can comfortably look up a word in a Thai-Thai dictionary and fully grasp the meaning of a word as well, but that day is still a few years into the future. In the meantime, I use Haas and some of the verbose but highly crippled dictionaries used by Thai students learning English.

I used the McFarland copy in the library at Uni, but it was not as useful to me as Haas has been. Maybe it would be different now a few years down the road.

You wouldn't know if there is a bookshop in CM that has McFarland in stock, would you sabaijai? Suriwong?

[sabaijai]

It WAS printed using an old technique. I can understand what Sabaijai is saying, I wish to get to the stage where I can comfortably look up a word in a Thai-Thai dictionary and fully grasp the meaning of a word as well, but that day is still a few years into the future. In the meantime, I use Haas and some  of the verbose but highly crippled dictionaries used by Thai students learning English.

I used the McFarland copy in the library at Uni, but it was not as useful to me as Haas has been. Maybe it would be different now a few years down the road.

You wouldn't know if there is a bookshop in CM that has McFarland in stock, would you sabaijai? Suriwong?

I've never seen a copy of McFarland for sale in Chiang Mai. I have seen it in Merman Books in Bangkok. Merman is - or was, I haven't been there in about a year - in the Silom Centre shopping mall (I think that's the name, it's near the Sala Daeng BTS station). It is/was owned by Alan Dawson, long-time staffer at the BKK Post. I believe White Lotus in BKK also carries it, might even be listed on their website. Worth having around, I think.

For me the Thai definitions in the RID 'stick' better, or make more sense, than the English entries in McFarland or Haas (which I no longer have a copy of).