E-Nang Ei Khoey Farang

[Xangsamhua]

Not quite correct, S. J. People in 3 Southern provinces of Isarn are not Lao . They are Khmer. Buriram , Surin and Si Sa Ket are predominantly of Khmer origin. And were from at least the time of Siam Reap , to Phanom Rung. When this part of Isarn was ruled By Khmer,Was at that time Hindu, . From about 1,000 years ago. Even today , many families have relatives in Cambodia. These people do not speak Lao, But Isarn . We can argue as to whether it is a dialect of Lao or not. My children speak it. They understand Lao ,but cannot speak it.

Is Surin parti-coloured? That is, are there Khmer-speaking parts, Lao-speaking parts and Suay-speaking parts? A few years ago my wife and I joined up with a group in Surin going to Siem Reap (we crossed the border from Sisaket). Our Surin co-travellers were Lao speakers. The husband, a high school principal, identified strongly with his Lao origins. The group leader was a Suay speaker and lived in a Suay village. The Lao speakers, being middle-class people, were also balanced-bilingual Thai speakers. (Both the Lao and Suay villages we visited looked quite prosperous, incidentally.)

Edited May 23, 2011 by Xangsamhua

[SanukJoeII]

Not quite correct, S. J. People in 3 Southern provinces of Isarn are not Lao . They are Khmer. Buriram , Surin and Si Sa Ket are predominantly of Khmer origin. And were from at least the time of Siam Reap , to Phanom Rung. When this part of Isarn was ruled By Khmer,Was at that time Hindu, . From about 1,000 years ago. Even today , many families have relatives in Cambodia. These people do not speak Lao, But Isarn . We can argue as to whether it is a dialect of Lao or not. My children speak it. They understand Lao ,but cannot speak it.

You make the mistake of taking a minority as standard.

In the provinces you mention there is a substantial MINORITY of Khmer speakers, about 1 million total, Same goes for Suay speakers, about 300,000 people.

So although it is right that they don't speak Lao, it is a minority out of 22 million Isan people and therefor cannot be used as standard for Isan. We talked about Isan people speak Isan, reason for me to mention that Isan is a dialect and nothing else than Lao language. There are many local languages spoken, but all by minorities.

Another example is Sakon Nakhon: Aheu, Easteren Bru, Phu Thai, So, Yoi are spoken there but by minorities (225,000 people).

Or Nong khai: Nyaw, So, Tai dam (125,000 people total).

So concluding it is clear that 22 million people in/from Isan speak a dialect called Isan by some, Lao by most, and is a dialect of Lao language.

Joe

[EirikJohannesen]

Not quite correct, S. J. People in 3 Southern provinces of Isarn are not Lao . They are Khmer. Buriram , Surin and Si Sa Ket are predominantly of Khmer origin. And were from at least the time of Siam Reap , to Phanom Rung. When this part of Isarn was ruled By Khmer,Was at that time Hindu, . From about 1,000 years ago. Even today , many families have relatives in Cambodia. These people do not speak Lao, But Isarn . We can argue as to whether it is a dialect of Lao or not. My children speak it. They understand Lao ,but cannot speak it.

You make the mistake of taking a minority as standard.

In the provinces you mention there is a substantial MINORITY of Khmer speakers, about 1 million total, Same goes for Suay speakers, about 300,000 people.

So although it is right that they don't speak Lao, it is a minority out of 22 million Isan people and therefor cannot be used as standard for Isan. We talked about Isan people speak Isan, reason for me to mention that Isan is a dialect and nothing else than Lao language. There are many local languages spoken, but all by minorities.

Another example is Sakon Nakhon: Aheu, Easteren Bru, Phu Thai, So, Yoi are spoken there but by minorities (225,000 people).

Or Nong khai: Nyaw, So, Tai dam (125,000 people total).

So concluding it is clear that 22 million people in/from Isan speak a dialect called Isan by some, Lao by most, and is a dialect of Lao language.

Joe

Agree

[puchooay]

Not quite correct, S. J. People in 3 Southern provinces of Isarn are not Lao . They are Khmer. Buriram , Surin and Si Sa Ket are predominantly of Khmer origin. And were from at least the time of Siam Reap , to Phanom Rung. When this part of Isarn was ruled By Khmer,Was at that time Hindu, . From about 1,000 years ago. Even today , many families have relatives in Cambodia. These people do not speak Lao, But Isarn . We can argue as to whether it is a dialect of Lao or not. My children speak it. They understand Lao ,but cannot speak it.

You make the mistake of taking a minority as standard.

In the provinces you mention there is a substantial MINORITY of Khmer speakers, about 1 million total, Same goes for Suay speakers, about 300,000 people.

So although it is right that they don't speak Lao, it is a minority out of 22 million Isan people and therefor cannot be used as standard for Isan. We talked about Isan people speak Isan, reason for me to mention that Isan is a dialect and nothing else than Lao language. There are many local languages spoken, but all by minorities.

Another example is Sakon Nakhon: Aheu, Easteren Bru, Phu Thai, So, Yoi are spoken there but by minorities (225,000 people).

Or Nong khai: Nyaw, So, Tai dam (125,000 people total).

So concluding it is clear that 22 million people in/from Isan speak a dialect called Isan by some, Lao by most, and is a dialect of Lao language.

Joe

Agree

So please differentiate between the groups. Just because the Khmers and the GUI (not Suay) speakers are minorities it does not mean that they should be included in the Lao group.

They have their own history and culture and that should be respected.

Most Khmer and Gui speakers can speak Lao too but choose not to speak it as it is not their language.

To say that they cannot be used as a standard for Issan is complete B&^%cks.

And to he who mentioned the middle class well balanced billingual speakers.Get your head out of the sand.

The lovely people of my village are uneducated farmers who just happen to be Tri lingual.

So how about using phrases like "the people of central and northern Issan bla bla bla Lao.

[Xangsamhua]

Not quite correct, S. J. People in 3 Southern provinces of Isarn are not Lao . They are Khmer. Buriram , Surin and Si Sa Ket are predominantly of Khmer origin. And were from at least the time of Siam Reap , to Phanom Rung. When this part of Isarn was ruled By Khmer,Was at that time Hindu, . From about 1,000 years ago. Even today , many families have relatives in Cambodia. These people do not speak Lao, But Isarn . We can argue as to whether it is a dialect of Lao or not. My children speak it. They understand Lao ,but cannot speak it.

You make the mistake of taking a minority as standard.

In the provinces you mention there is a substantial MINORITY of Khmer speakers, about 1 million total, Same goes for Suay speakers, about 300,000 people.

So although it is right that they don't speak Lao, it is a minority out of 22 million Isan people and therefor cannot be used as standard for Isan. We talked about Isan people speak Isan, reason for me to mention that Isan is a dialect and nothing else than Lao language. There are many local languages spoken, but all by minorities.

Another example is Sakon Nakhon: Aheu, Easteren Bru, Phu Thai, So, Yoi are spoken there but by minorities (225,000 people).

Or Nong khai: Nyaw, So, Tai dam (125,000 people total).

So concluding it is clear that 22 million people in/from Isan speak a dialect called Isan by some, Lao by most, and is a dialect of Lao language.

Joe

Agree

And to he who mentioned the middle class well balanced billingual speakers.Get your head out of the sand.

The lovely people of my village are uneducated farmers who just happen to be Tri lingual.

No need to be aggressive Puchooay. People are just expressing their views, rightly or wrongly. You're quite right to point out that uneducated people can be multilingual. I suppose I just mentioned that our friends were balanced bilinguals because, as government employees they would have to have a high level of Thai as well as Lao. Maybe I shouldn't have said it, but not being an Issan hand, I don't know the scene on the ground, or the sensitivities.

[Xangsamhua]

And to he who mentioned the middle class well balanced billingual speakers.Get your head out of the sand.

The lovely people of my village are uneducated farmers who just happen to be Tri lingual.

No need to be aggressive Puchooay. People are just expressing their views, rightly or wrongly. You're quite right to point out that uneducated people can be multilingual. I suppose I just mentioned that our friends were balanced bilinguals because, as government employees they would have to have a high level of Thai as well as Lao. Maybe I shouldn't have said it, but not being an Issan hand, I don't know the scene on the ground, or the sensitivities.

Just to add a bit. I should explain that the term "balanced-bilingual" means a person who speaks two languages fluently and equally well. It's got nothing to do with a person being "well balanced". Apologies if I have misled people.

[afarang]

S.J-"Twas you ,who made the blanket statement , "that all Isarn people speak Lao, or a dialect called Isarn". I am not concerned as to whether or not it is a minority. Which I heartily agree- it is.Suffice to say ,there is a minority who DO NOT speak Lao. There is a minority whose culture is NOT Lao. That, although a minority, they are a reasonably sizable percentage of Isarn. I speak ,as a resident of the area, not as an academic ,I note you have no interest in , nor concern with their cultural origins,expressed by your lack of comment or repudiation of what I stated. . You are solely hung-up on whether Isarn is a dialect or not. I made a comment that my kids understand Lao , as a language, but cannot speak it. Which leads me to pose the question " Is it a dialect of Lao or a Sister Language?" I feel rather more comfortable with the the Sister Language idea. Certainly, that is a supposition that we could argue about , until the cows come home. I did not want to muddy the waters by getting too involved with the languages that are commonly used in these 3 Provinces. The most interesting is Gui Or Suay. I note that there is debate about the correct name. The local speakers in my area , do call it Suay.Not Gui. Sadly, it is now only spoken by the elderly, and will die out in the next 50 years. The young do not speak it as their everyday language. It has a further problem , in that so far as I can ascertain, it is an ORAL language- there is no written language. And it is not , nor apparently ever has been , spoken in what is Cambodia ,today. While ,my understanding is that the other Khmer languages spoken in this part of Thailand are still spoken in some Northern Cambodian areas.

[EirikJohannesen]

Take a look at other countries, French Canadian, belgium, switzerland, they have several languages​​, but do not call it dialect. In Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia are the Sami language and those who speak Sami speak it differently in each country, but it is still called Sami. Lao is like any other language it changes over distances, so I think it's fair to say Lao language in Isaan where cities bordering the Lao ..

Like Norway, Sweden and Denmark we have very similar language and understand each other quite easily, but we call it the language and not dialects, several places on the border, they speak Swedish in Norway and it's not a dialect of Norwegian, but the Swedish language. if you want to use this as the standard is not Isaan, but Lao That's right.

[EirikJohannesen]

"E-Nang Ei Khoey Farang" ("White Buffalo"). Who did this translation? it sounds mor like "Hey Nang speaks whit farang" or "Hey Nang don`t speak whit Farang" Khoey is "talk" in Lao, "Ei" could be "don`t" in slang.

[katana]

The Thai name of the film is อีนางเอ๊ย เขยฝรั่ง so KHOEY is 'son-in-law".

I wasn't sure of the translation, maybe something like 'The Young lady and the farang son-in-law'.

Don't know where the buffalo bit comes in.

[troehr]

The white buffalo comes from the white buffalo the star of the movie is always riding around the village that brings luck to the village.

[SanukJoeII]

S.J-"Twas you ,who made the blanket statement , "that all Isarn people speak Lao, or a dialect called Isarn". I am not concerned as to whether or not it is a minority. Which I heartily agree- it is.Suffice to say ,there is a minority who DO NOT speak Lao. There is a minority whose culture is NOT Lao. That, although a minority, they are a reasonably sizable percentage of Isarn. I speak ,as a resident of the area, not as an academic ,I note you have no interest in , nor concern with their cultural origins,expressed by your lack of comment or repudiation of what I stated. . You are solely hung-up on whether Isarn is a dialect or not. I made a comment that my kids understand Lao , as a language, but cannot speak it. Which leads me to pose the question " Is it a dialect of Lao or a Sister Language?" I feel rather more comfortable with the the Sister Language idea. Certainly, that is a supposition that we could argue about , until the cows come home. I did not want to muddy the waters by getting too involved with the languages that are commonly used in these 3 Provinces. The most interesting is Gui Or Suay. I note that there is debate about the correct name. The local speakers in my area , do call it Suay.Not Gui. Sadly, it is now only spoken by the elderly, and will die out in the next 50 years. The young do not speak it as their everyday language. It has a further problem , in that so far as I can ascertain, it is an ORAL language- there is no written language. And it is not , nor apparently ever has been , spoken in what is Cambodia ,today. While ,my understanding is that the other Khmer languages spoken in this part of Thailand are still spoken in some Northern Cambodian areas.

You run around like a mad bull without seeing the reality.

NOWHERE I stated that ALL Isan people speak Lao. There was a post saying Isan people speak Isan, not Lao. That was the reason for me to react and based on facts and my own experience in a rural Isan village made clear that generally speaking (and that is what was done) Isan people speak a dialect of Lao. Isan as a language or name didn't exist before 100 years ago. When I say generally speaking it includes that I'm aware of minoritites speaking another dialect or language. I stated myself that about 1 million people in the 3 provinces you mentioned speak Khmer, about 300,000 people in the same area speak Suay.

As the whole of Isan is populated by about 22 million people one cannot say " a sizeable percentage" speaks differently and are not Lao. Although true the fault is in the "sizeable percentage". Facts: Khmer speaking percentage 4.5%, Suay speaking percentage 0.014%.

So when 95.5014% of an area speak a dialect of Lao one can say in general they speak Lao, ok? Add the fact that some/many/most Khmer speakers also speak Lao and it comes clear that your post is way out of reality and written by emotions rather than by common sense.

To the background of Suay and Khmer (and other minorities): I admire those minorities and wish they would preserve their cultural heritage including their language!

It is sad to read in your post that Suay is supposed to disappear, a real shame. It can only be saved if the people stick together and preserve their cultural history.

To Eirik: not good examples of Scandinavian languages. Better would be example like Germany. Although all speak German there are dialects so differently that it is hard to understand for people from other parts. E.g. Bavaria has a distinctive dialect, so have the Saxons, the Schwabish, the Hansa Germans. But nobody would call it another language, it is still German language!

Joe

[EirikJohannesen]

The Thai name of the film is อีนางเอ๊ย เขยฝรั่ง so KHOEY is 'son-in-law".

I wasn't sure of the translation, maybe something like 'The Young lady and the farang son-in-law'.

Don't know where the buffalo bit comes in.

Look khoey yes ,

My wife don`t get it aswell, we have to se the movie

[EirikJohannesen]

S.J-"Twas you ,who made the blanket statement , "that all Isarn people speak Lao, or a dialect called Isarn". I am not concerned as to whether or not it is a minority. Which I heartily agree- it is.Suffice to say ,there is a minority who DO NOT speak Lao. There is a minority whose culture is NOT Lao. That, although a minority, they are a reasonably sizable percentage of Isarn. I speak ,as a resident of the area, not as an academic ,I note you have no interest in , nor concern with their cultural origins,expressed by your lack of comment or repudiation of what I stated. . You are solely hung-up on whether Isarn is a dialect or not. I made a comment that my kids understand Lao , as a language, but cannot speak it. Which leads me to pose the question " Is it a dialect of Lao or a Sister Language?" I feel rather more comfortable with the the Sister Language idea. Certainly, that is a supposition that we could argue about , until the cows come home. I did not want to muddy the waters by getting too involved with the languages that are commonly used in these 3 Provinces. The most interesting is Gui Or Suay. I note that there is debate about the correct name. The local speakers in my area , do call it Suay.Not Gui. Sadly, it is now only spoken by the elderly, and will die out in the next 50 years. The young do not speak it as their everyday language. It has a further problem , in that so far as I can ascertain, it is an ORAL language- there is no written language. And it is not , nor apparently ever has been , spoken in what is Cambodia ,today. While ,my understanding is that the other Khmer languages spoken in this part of Thailand are still spoken in some Northern Cambodian areas.

You run around like a mad bull without seeing the reality.

NOWHERE I stated that ALL Isan people speak Lao. There was a post saying Isan people speak Isan, not Lao. That was the reason for me to react and based on facts and my own experience in a rural Isan village made clear that generally speaking (and that is what was done) Isan people speak a dialect of Lao. Isan as a language or name didn't exist before 100 years ago. When I say generally speaking it includes that I'm aware of minoritites speaking another dialect or language. I stated myself that about 1 million people in the 3 provinces you mentioned speak Khmer, about 300,000 people in the same area speak Suay.

As the whole of Isan is populated by about 22 million people one cannot say " a sizeable percentage" speaks differently and are not Lao. Although true the fault is in the "sizeable percentage". Facts: Khmer speaking percentage 4.5%, Suay speaking percentage 0.014%.

So when 95.5014% of an area speak a dialect of Lao one can say in general they speak Lao, ok? Add the fact that some/many/most Khmer speakers also speak Lao and it comes clear that your post is way out of reality and written by emotions rather than by common sense.

To the background of Suay and Khmer (and other minorities): I admire those minorities and wish they would preserve their cultural heritage including their language!

It is sad to read in your post that Suay is supposed to disappear, a real shame. It can only be saved if the people stick together and preserve their cultural history.

To Eirik: not good examples of Scandinavian languages. Better would be example like Germany. Although all speak German there are dialects so differently that it is hard to understand for people from other parts. E.g. Bavaria has a distinctive dialect, so have the Saxons, the Schwabish, the Hansa Germans. But nobody would call it another language, it is still German language!

Joe

The example could certainly have been very good, it is rather the person as an author that is not so good at explaining it in English.

[puchooay]

I would doubt very much that over 95 percent of the issan population speak a dialect of Lao, SJ. You seem to be forgetting the people of Issan that only speak Thai. There are many.

And when I say "speak" I mean as a communicative language that they use day in day out.

[atyclb]

Reading a synopsis of the film, one of the storylines deals with a failed university student and Isaan youth, just back from uni returning to the village and finding the girl he loves is being wooed by a richer farang. His friends encourage him to fight for her, but I don't know how it turns out.

So it does seem to cover an area that must be cause for resentment among the local Isaan males: their women leaving them for richer foreigners.

Resentment for a relatively wealther western guy; really?

Does the remote possibility exist for the so called resentors to benefit financially from the relationship? in addition to the girls family ???

[ESB7]

Judging from the trailer, the film sets out to make fun of the Lao-speaking Issaners. The western guys seem quite innocent and well-mannered. It looks like just another Bangkok put-down. The villagers are portrayed as drunkards, prone to violence and generally stupid.

No wonder there's so much ill-feeling in the Northeast toward Bangkok and the kind of people who find this kind of thing funny.

The trailer's at http://www.movieseer..._(White_Buffalo)

The language of the Isan is called Isan, not Lao.

Correct! why do people (who are generally living outside Isaan) make this mistake? I am not fluent in either but i do get by. Isaan dialects vary region to region BUT ISAAN IS NOT LAOS even though the two do share some common terms. The Laos language also has many dialects. Anyhoo, this is only my opinoin after 9 years living on the Laotian Border - no doubt more learned brethren will contradict me.

I speak fluent Lao and isaan and its not that big difference but it seems that Thai`s like to refeer isaan to Lao language, they say "wao Lao" not "wao isaan"

Most E San I have met speak Khmer.....parts between Surin and Burirram Esan also as well as Thai..........anything with a yang on it is Esan and anything with an oi on it is Khmer

[tamsom]

Some great research on this topic. There are many different languages and dialects spoken in Isarn. My wife's mother tongue is Suay; most people in their village speak it. Her next language is Lao, and she learned Thai when she wen to school at age 5. I can speak Lao, and when I crossed the border into Laos, I was understood by most people. I had to learn different words used in everyday conversation, but that only took about 2 months. In Krung Thep, people now, for nationalistic reasons, refer to Lao spoken in Isarn as Isarn. By calling lao Northeast Thai sort of confirms the identity crisis.In the villages people refer to the language as Lao. One final note: my wife's grandma was over a hundred when she died in 2001 and it appears she did not have an original Thai birth certificate, but she did have a Lao last name....

[ALFREDO]

I would like to see the movie, but two weeks ago in Bangkok the big movie centers in the area I stayed did not show it. Would have been a longer Underground and Taxi drive to come to the cinema where the movie was shown.

Now in Khon Kaen also no show!

Wait and look for the DVD, VCD?

[klikster]

Ask Isan people and they tell you they "wao lao", not wao Isan! They are more than 21 million people, you think you know better?

Joe ( who lives in Isan and wao lao nit noi).

Just asked my wife, born in Maha Sarakam, raised on a farm, age 59, graduate of KK Uni. She says, "Wao Isan."

[zzaa09]

Not quite correct, S. J. People in 3 Southern provinces of Isarn are not Lao . They are Khmer. Buriram , Surin and Si Sa Ket are predominantly of Khmer origin. And were from at least the time of Siam Reap , to Phanom Rung. When this part of Isarn was ruled By Khmer,Was at that time Hindu, . From about 1,000 years ago. Even today , many families have relatives in Cambodia. These people do not speak Lao, But Isarn . We can argue as to whether it is a dialect of Lao or not. My children speak it. They understand Lao ,but cannot speak it.

Less we forget the broad influence Khmer has placed amongst all of Isaan and what passes for a "Thai by default" culture.

Linguistic [more or less], customs, art, architecture, cuisine, dress, etc - all principally Khmer. Though many, through recent conditioning, will argue the Lao presence.....it's quite nominal.