Bro'S Before Hoe'S

[F1fanatic]

^ You my dear are obviously living in a vacuum. Western women these days have a far greatly likelyhood of winding up in a strangers bed than most men. It's that sense of entitlement and equality your gender has been striving for ever since the beginning of the sexual revolution.

Yes sweetheart, I'm sure you're right. How on earth would I (as a Western woman) have any idea what happens nowadays.

Its a bit like the Hollywood films that show American women jumping into bed as soon as they meet a man - whilst somehow portraying that this is something only Europeans do....

I'm not even going to address the obvious mathematical impossibility of more Western women ending up in a strangers bed than Western men.

[Moonrakers]

I've missed this thread so far.

What the bloody hell is happening here then?

[RedFxTrade]

^ You my dear are obviously living in a vacuum. Western women these days have a far greatly likelyhood of winding up in a strangers bed than most men. It's that sense of entitlement and equality your gender has been striving for ever since the beginning of the sexual revolution.

I'm not even going to address the obvious mathematical impossibility of more Western women ending up in a strangers bed than Western men.

Thats an excellent point.

[F1fanatic]

Its obviously one of those male/female things.

Men find it funny when they end up in bed with someone they find unattractive the next morning - they were pissed, who cares right? Its just funny.

Women (or at least those I know) never find themselves in that situation and don't find it funny - just telling about the people involved.

Its not that its funny. Its just that there is no point in beating yourself up about things you do. I don't think it is telling about the people involved. A very close friend of mine might get drunk, and do stuff like that now again, and in the past, early twenties and that, but he is a researcher into the efficiency of how to make pharmaceutical life saving drugs in mass production. Some drugs are not viable as they cannot be made in large quantities economically. He is also one of the most trust worthy people you could meet and an all round good guy. The benefit he adds to society out weighs anything he does in a drunken night out, like consensual sex between two private individuals. So how is it telling about that person? Tell me what is so morally corrupt with two drunk people having consensual drunken sex? Does this harm any individuals? Does this do a massive disservice to society at large. Is he encroaching on anyones human liberties? Does this act dilute the other obvious benefits he adds to society.

I m sorry but things are not just that black and white.

Actually I agree. The 'nicest' person I knew used to sleep with men she had just met that night. She was the only woman I ever knew that did that and we all used to worry ourselves sick about her.

It was obvious that somehow even though she had all us female friends that loved her, she was crying out for a man to do the same.... V sad that such a wonderful person could be so 'needy'.

[Moonrakers]

The op has named him(?)self trisailor. Is that suggesting something?

[Beetlejuice]

There were these 2 buddies, Mike and Jerry.

Jerry says to Mike; imagine you attended a party, got seriously drunk and then the following morning you woke up in bed lying next to a guy - would you tell anyone about it?

Mike answers; certainly not, that would be too embarrassing. Then Jerry asks Mike; fancy coming to a party tonight?

Edited May 18, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[sarahsbloke]

Tell me what is so morally corrupt with two drunk people having consensual drunken sex? Does this harm any individuals? Does this do a massive disservice to society at large. Is he encroaching on anyones human liberties? Does this act dilute the other obvious benefits he adds to society.

You aren't American are you?

According to current American law, a drunken woman cannot have consensual sex as she is in no condition to give consent.

The morning after she is free to decide it was rape, report it as such, and have the person who had sex with her arrested, charged and convicted.

[F1fanatic]

Tell me what is so morally corrupt with two drunk people having consensual drunken sex? Does this harm any individuals? Does this do a massive disservice to society at large. Is he encroaching on anyones human liberties? Does this act dilute the other obvious benefits he adds to society.

You aren't American are you?

According to current American law, a drunken woman cannot have consensual sex as she is in no condition to give consent.

The morning after she is free to decide it was rape, report it as such, and have the person who had sex with her arrested, charged and convicted.

I'm sure there are lots of cases of drunken American women who have taken the men to court for rape - rather than just being horrifyingly embarrassed the next day...

Get over yourself. I'm sure us Western women are horrible, but you are taking it to extremes.

In fact compared to Thai women, we aren't that bad - most of us are (or in my case were) looking for love - not money.

[RedFxTrade]

Its obviously one of those male/female things.

Men find it funny when they end up in bed with someone they find unattractive the next morning - they were pissed, who cares right? Its just funny.

Women (or at least those I know) never find themselves in that situation and don't find it funny - just telling about the people involved.

Its not that its funny. Its just that there is no point in beating yourself up about things you do. I don't think it is telling about the people involved. A very close friend of mine might get drunk, and do stuff like that now again, and in the past, early twenties and that, but he is a researcher into the efficiency of how to make pharmaceutical life saving drugs in mass production. Some drugs are not viable as they cannot be made in large quantities economically. He is also one of the most trust worthy people you could meet and an all round good guy. The benefit he adds to society out weighs anything he does in a drunken night out, like consensual sex between two private individuals. So how is it telling about that person? Tell me what is so morally corrupt with two drunk people having consensual drunken sex? Does this harm any individuals? Does this do a massive disservice to society at large. Is he encroaching on anyones human liberties? Does this act dilute the other obvious benefits he adds to society.

I m sorry but things are not just that black and white.

Actually I agree. The 'nicest' person I knew used to sleep with men she had just met that night. She was the only woman I ever knew that did that and we all used to worry ourselves sick about her.

It was obvious that somehow even though she had all us female friends that loved her, she was crying out for a man to do the same.... V sad that such a wonderful person could be so 'needy'.

Ahh you see But I always think things are never black and white. F1 you say that it is very sad that she should be so needy, or that it is "wrong" to sleep with someone you just met. My point is that it depends on the inner ethics of that person. To have the idea that it is wrong to sleep with someone on the first night is starting from the stand point that there is something morally wrong with that. But is there something morally wrong with that? If so what exactly?If one person has came to the moral conclusion that they find nothing morally wrong with sleeping with someone on the first night, and they do it, then they will not feel guilty as it is congruent with their inner ethics. But possibly your friends, I don't know obviously, did it out of a neediness, but also thought within in herself that it is morally wrong, then I m sure she will feel guilty and bad about it, as this would be a split or incongruent with her own inner ethical dialogue.

I happen to think it is not wrong to sleep with someone I have just met, as long as it is consensual, of course. I have met some great girls that way, and have had a good next day, maybe went to the pub. I think most girls will feel bad about doing it, due to cultural pressures, religious back grounds, held values. However, if they have a good time, and you are both laughing the next day and it is light hearted, then it is more difficult to feel bad if you feel good. It does not have to be a negative event. Again, it all comes down to your own inner ethics, and how your actions line up with them.I believe people should be free to do what they want as long as it does not encroach on another persons life, or cause discomfort, and you don't force standards and beliefs on another person.

Edited May 18, 2011 by RedFxTrade

[RedFxTrade]

Tell me what is so morally corrupt with two drunk people having consensual drunken sex? Does this harm any individuals? Does this do a massive disservice to society at large. Is he encroaching on anyones human liberties? Does this act dilute the other obvious benefits he adds to society.

You aren't American are you?

According to current American law, a drunken woman cannot have consensual sex as she is in no condition to give consent.

The morning after she is free to decide it was rape, report it as such, and have the person who had sex with her arrested, charged and convicted.

Irish/British...

[F1fanatic]

Its obviously one of those male/female things.

Men find it funny when they end up in bed with someone they find unattractive the next morning - they were pissed, who cares right? Its just funny.

Women (or at least those I know) never find themselves in that situation and don't find it funny - just telling about the people involved.

Its not that its funny. Its just that there is no point in beating yourself up about things you do. I don't think it is telling about the people involved. A very close friend of mine might get drunk, and do stuff like that now again, and in the past, early twenties and that, but he is a researcher into the efficiency of how to make pharmaceutical life saving drugs in mass production. Some drugs are not viable as they cannot be made in large quantities economically. He is also one of the most trust worthy people you could meet and an all round good guy. The benefit he adds to society out weighs anything he does in a drunken night out, like consensual sex between two private individuals. So how is it telling about that person? Tell me what is so morally corrupt with two drunk people having consensual drunken sex? Does this harm any individuals? Does this do a massive disservice to society at large. Is he encroaching on anyones human liberties? Does this act dilute the other obvious benefits he adds to society.

I m sorry but things are not just that black and white.

Actually I agree. The 'nicest' person I knew used to sleep with men she had just met that night. She was the only woman I ever knew that did that and we all used to worry ourselves sick about her.

It was obvious that somehow even though she had all us female friends that loved her, she was crying out for a man to do the same.... V sad that such a wonderful person could be so 'needy'.

Ahh you see But I always think things are never black and white. F1 you say that it is very sad that she should be so needy, or that it is "wrong" to sleep with someone you just met. My point is that it depends on the inner ethics of that person. To have the idea that it is wrong to sleep with someone on the first night is starting from the stand point that there is something morally wrong with that. But is there something morally wrong with that? If one person has came to the moral conclusion that they find nothing morally wrong with sleeping with someone on the first night, and they do it, then they will not feel guilty as it is congruent with their inner ethics. But possibly your friends, I don't know obviously, did it out of a neediness, but also thought within in herself that it is morally wrong, then I m sure she will feel guilty and bad about it, as this would be a split or incongruent with her own inner ethical dialogue.

I happen to think it is not wrong to sleep with someone I have just met, as long as it is consensual, of course. I have met some great girls that way, and have had a good next day, maybe went to the pub. I think most girls will feel bad about doing it, due to cultural pressures, religious back grounds, held values. However, if they have a good time, and you are both laughing the next day and it is light hearted, then it is more difficult to feel bad if you feel good. It does not have to be a negative event. Again, it all comes down to your own inner ethics, and how your actions line up with them.I believe people should be free to do what they want as long as it does not encroach on another persons life, or cause discomfort, and you don't force standards and beliefs on another person.

Again, I agree entirely. But its not 'normal' for women to feel this way - we've been brought up to feel 'cheap' if we are so 'easy'.

As you say, its cultural, but I still think its right - sex is far better if you actually care about the person! But then again I realise men have a completely different outlook to women.

My friend was 'needy' and died v young. It made her death worse knowing how much she craved a man to love her....

[RedFxTrade]

Again, I agree entirely. But its not 'normal' for women to feel this way - we've been brought up to feel 'cheap' if we are so 'easy'.

As you say, its cultural, but I still think its right - sex is far better if you actually care about the person! But then again I realise men have a completely different outlook to women.

My friend was 'needy' and died v young. It made her death worse knowing how much she craved a man to love her....

Thats sad ...Yes the media and culture play a large part. I wish there was more open discussion/debate about these things on an open platform/forum. Wasnt it Voltaire who said, "I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"...

A thought or opinion should never be repressed or suppressed. I agree sex is better with someone you care about, but it also depends how quick you click and bond. I have found sometimes that I can bond very quickly with someone. To be perfectly honest, I myself, do not go out looking for one night stands, but if it happens then I have reconciled within myself that I m not committing a moral crime. I think life and humans are too dynamic to live by static precepts and "thou shall and thou shall not". Prohibition for anything only increases desire. Its a strange part of having a human mind that has a faculty of reasoning. Suppression of anything in the, initially though leads to eventual actions. Women should not be made to feel cheap for their actions, nor men for that matter. If you actually trace the actions back to reasons why, you find their is usually nothing morally wrong

[sarahsbloke]

As you say, its cultural, but I still think its right - sex is far better if you actually care about the person! But then again I realise men have a completely different outlook to women.

I can assure you that this is not at all true.

Most women I have had sex with enjoyed themselves far more before they got to know me.

[Beetlejuice]

Tell me what is so morally corrupt with two drunk people having consensual drunken sex? Does this harm any individuals? Does this do a massive disservice to society at large. Is he encroaching on anyones human liberties? Does this act dilute the other obvious benefits he adds to society.

You aren't American are you?

According to current American law, a drunken woman cannot have consensual sex as she is in no condition to give consent.

The morning after she is free to decide it was rape, report it as such, and have the person who had sex with her arrested, charged and convicted.

I'm sure there are lots of cases of drunken American women who have taken the men to court for rape - rather than just being horrifyingly embarrassed the next day...

Get over yourself. I'm sure us Western women are horrible, but you are taking it to extremes.

In fact compared to Thai women, we aren't that bad - most of us are (or in my case were) looking for love - not money.

A story from the famous Irish comedian, the late great, Dave Allen:

On one bright and beautiful English summer afternoon, I opened a window from the top floor of my 2-story house to enjoy the view and take in the air on such a fine day.

Then I noticed the next door neighbors beautiful young wife lying on her lawn, naked as the day she was born, sunbathing and trying to get a tan.

Suddenly she peered up and spotted me looking out of the window. Then she called the police, I was arrested and charged with being a peeping tom, taken to court, fined £400 and given a criminal record.

The following year on one bright and beautiful English summer afternoon, I decided to lie on my garden lawn, naked as the day I was born, sunbathing and trying to get a tan. Then the next door neighbors beautiful young wife opened her window from the top floor of her 2 story house to enjoy the view and take in the air on such a fine day.

Suddenly she peered down and spotted me lying on the lawn, as naked as the day I was born. Then she called the police, I was arrested and charged with indecent exposure, taken to court, fined £400 and given a criminal record.

I think that about sums it all up.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[RedFxTrade]

Tell me what is so morally corrupt with two drunk people having consensual drunken sex? Does this harm any individuals? Does this do a massive disservice to society at large. Is he encroaching on anyones human liberties? Does this act dilute the other obvious benefits he adds to society.

You aren't American are you?

According to current American law, a drunken woman cannot have consensual sex as she is in no condition to give consent.

The morning after she is free to decide it was rape, report it as such, and have the person who had sex with her arrested, charged and convicted.

I'm sure there are lots of cases of drunken American women who have taken the men to court for rape - rather than just being horrifyingly embarrassed the next day...

Get over yourself. I'm sure us Western women are horrible, but you are taking it to extremes.

In fact compared to Thai women, we aren't that bad - most of us are (or in my case were) looking for love - not money.

A story from the famous Irish comedian, the late great, Dave Allen:

On one bright and beautiful English summer afternoon, I opened a window from the top floor of my 2-story house to enjoy the view and take in the air on such a fine day.

Then I noticed the next door neighbors beautiful young wife lying on her lawn, naked as the day she was born, sunbathing and trying to get a tan.

Suddenly she peered up and spotted me looking out of the window. Then she called the police, I was arrested and charged with being a peeping tom, taken to court, fined £400 and given a criminal record.

The following year on one bright and beautiful English summer afternoon, I decided to lie on my garden lawn, naked as the day I was born, sunbathing and trying to get a tan. Then the next door neighbors beautiful young wife opened her window from the top floor of her 2 story house to enjoy the view and take in the air on such a fine day.

Suddenly she peered down and spotted me lying on the lawn, as naked as the day I was born. Then she called the police, I was arrested and charged with indecent exposure, taken to court, fined £400 and given a criminal record.

I think that about sums it all up.

Dave Allen=genius. Fantastic story.

[F1fanatic]

Tell me what is so morally corrupt with two drunk people having consensual drunken sex? Does this harm any individuals? Does this do a massive disservice to society at large. Is he encroaching on anyones human liberties? Does this act dilute the other obvious benefits he adds to society.

You aren't American are you?

According to current American law, a drunken woman cannot have consensual sex as she is in no condition to give consent.

The morning after she is free to decide it was rape, report it as such, and have the person who had sex with her arrested, charged and convicted.

I'm sure there are lots of cases of drunken American women who have taken the men to court for rape - rather than just being horrifyingly embarrassed the next day...

Get over yourself. I'm sure us Western women are horrible, but you are taking it to extremes.

In fact compared to Thai women, we aren't that bad - most of us are (or in my case were) looking for love - not money.

A story from the famous Irish comedian, the late great, Dave Allen:

On one bright and beautiful English summer afternoon, I opened a window from the top floor of my 2-story house to enjoy the view and take in the air on such a fine day.

Then I noticed the next door neighbors beautiful young wife lying on her lawn, naked as the day she was born, sunbathing and trying to get a tan.

Suddenly she peered up and spotted me looking out of the window. Then she called the police, I was arrested and charged with being a peeping tom, taken to court, fined £400 and given a criminal record.

The following year on one bright and beautiful English summer afternoon, I decided to lie on my garden lawn, naked as the day I was born, sunbathing and trying to get a tan. Then next door neighbors beautiful young wife opened her window from the top floor of her 2 story house to enjoy the view and take in the air on such a fine day.

Suddenly she peered down and spotted me lying on the lawn, as naked as the day I was born. Then she called the police, I was arrested and charged with indecent exposure, taken to court, fined £400 and given a criminal record.

I think that about sums it all up.

Quite. If it was true it wouldn't be funny.

One of those things - some men are lucky enough to find a woman with whom they can talk, the rest have to keep their emotions and feelings to themselves.

Its truly sad. Kudos to the OP for trying to address this situation.

[RedFxTrade]

A story from the famous Irish comedian, the late great, Dave Allen:

On one bright and beautiful English summer afternoon, I opened a window from the top floor of my 2-story house to enjoy the view and take in the air on such a fine day.

Then I noticed the next door neighbors beautiful young wife lying on her lawn, naked as the day she was born, sunbathing and trying to get a tan.

Suddenly she peered up and spotted me looking out of the window. Then she called the police, I was arrested and charged with being a peeping tom, taken to court, fined £400 and given a criminal record.

The following year on one bright and beautiful English summer afternoon, I decided to lie on my garden lawn, naked as the day I was born, sunbathing and trying to get a tan. Then next door neighbors beautiful young wife opened her window from the top floor of her 2 story house to enjoy the view and take in the air on such a fine day.

Suddenly she peered down and spotted me lying on the lawn, as naked as the day I was born. Then she called the police, I was arrested and charged with indecent exposure, taken to court, fined £400 and given a criminal record.

I think that about sums it all up.

Quite. If it was true it wouldn't be funny.

One of those things - some men are lucky enough to find a woman with whom they can talk, the rest have to keep their emotions and feelings to themselves.

Its truly sad. Kudos to the OP for trying to address this situation.

I definitely think it is true that men bottle shit up. More men commit suicide that women, women live longer.

[Chonburiram]

...I'm not even going to address the obvious mathematical impossibility of more Western women ending up in a strangers bed than Western men.

Set theory can be very confusing...

[F1fanatic]

Perhaps women live longer because we talk to each other about our emotional problems?

Which is why I think the OP is right in trying to bring men together to talk to each other.

Edited May 18, 2011 by F1fanatic

[RedFxTrade]

Perhaps women live longer because we talk to each other about our emotional problems?

Which is why I think the OP is right in trying to bring men together to talk to each other.

Yes, that was what I was implying in my post.

[F1fanatic]

Perhaps women live longer because we talk to each other about our emotional problems?

Which is why I think the OP is right in trying to bring men together to talk to each other.

Yes, that was what I was implying in my post.

Good to hear that's there's one man with some sense.

I gather the mens' group is not 'the answer' but as long as it gets men talking its got to be a good thing.

Hopefully the men will find good friends that they can talk to.

[cardholder]

Dude....there is a forum user IanForbes, I think you and Him would have a great chat.....I am sure He can set you straight.

:lol:

[MAJIC]

I nominate this Post as the most Supercilious,Cringe worthy Post,of the week!

Seriously, I need a Beer,

goodnight all.

Edited May 18, 2011 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

Perhaps women live longer because we talk to each other about our emotional problems?

Which is why I think the OP is right in trying to bring men together to talk to each other.

Now where on earth did this silly idea come from that men don't talk to each other?

[Ulysses G.]

Perhaps women live longer because we talk to each other about our emotional problems?

Which is why I think the OP is right in trying to bring men together to talk to each other.

Now where on earth did this silly idea come from that men don't talk to each other?

That is exactly what I was thinking. However, most of us talk about sensitive subjects with freinds, rather than "mens groups."

[Naam]

I don't need to get all my needs met from a woman.

So what you are saying reading between the lines is that you are into ladyboys as well then....

[trisailer]

I apologize for my poor writing skills (forgot to use spell checker in all the excitement)

Let me try to clarify"

The "bros before hoes" comment was my (failed) attempt at making the topic humorous. It is a common phrase among young men these days and it expresses the frustration that most men feel of trying to balance their lives, the desire for sex with the need for maintaining ones personal integrity. I spent a year hiking with young men and they are quite comfortable talking about what it means to be powerful, honorable men and manage their urges appropriately. I have to say that they seem to do a better job of it than most of the men my age.

My comment about young men sorting out their sexuality when they are young was meant to say that our sexual orientation is established at a young age and if we have put the question to rest than we should not fear it as we go through life. Why else do men fear intimacy with other men? I stated that I learned early that I was straight and that has never been an issue beyond that. My ex wife can testify to that. Men's sexuality is a powerful force. The issue is how do we manage it in appropriate ways? More importantly how do we manage violence?

I've heard all the jokes about mens groups and mens processes. The irony is that the men I know who have explored these issues have come away more balanced and happy because they are better equipped to handle life's challenges, their bodies and their minds. I also know a lot of men who haven't examined these issues and are middle aged and still haven't learned how to manage their own mind and body. These men tend to live compulsively and dishonor themselves in the process. This is what the science says. It is proven by the statistics that record the wreckage brought by men behaving like violent animals. The simple fact is that most men have issues with expressing masculinity in appropriate ways. If you don't believe that take a look at the crime statistics regarding violent acts committed by men on women and on other men. The numbers of men and women who are sexually abused are staggering and don't appear to be abating. Some of the worst cases are in the military and it is clear to me that there is a lot of confusion about what it means to be a warrior. The attitudes expressed here make the reasons it continues to exist apparent. Thailand is a perfect incubator for unbalanced men and it shows.

Someone mentioned the Marine character from the movie "American Beauty" and it is a classic case of a man who has misunderstood the warrior spirit. I'm the Lester Burnham character.

It would be nice if these bodies came with a operators manual, but for most of us they don't. Some guys are lucky that they have good male role models. I just finished reading Eugene Sledge's "With the old breed" and I admire his ability to stay true to his warrior spirit by demonstrating extraordinary courage and while not becoming an animal. My father was an abusive drunk so I was screwed from the start. I didn't want to be like him and so I had to learn how to be different. How to raise my own children properly so they wouldn't have to spend half their lives finding their way back. Self exploration saved me.

I love women and I did quite well with the ladies. Unfortunately I did a little too well. I was married and chased every skirt that came my way. I was quite skillful at telling the ladies what they needed to hear to get the panties off. All the while pretending to be this upstanding husband. I thought I was pretty cool, but I was in fact a liar and a cheat. I was not a balanced person and the result was I caused a lot of damage. I didn't have a choice. I was acting on my compulsions in spite of my attempts to control it.

I got involved with the mens group through a therapist in 1991. My career was going great, but my inner life was a mess. Our group of 12 men did some good work for a couple of years exploring every issue we could think of. After a couple of years we all reached the point of feeling more balanced and we disbanded the group to go see if we now go live it. Each and every man from the group are still living it and you can think what you want about the process but I look at these men as winners. The balance I achieved from this experience made my experience in Thailand so much better.

My first couple of years in Pattaya were more fun than just about anything I ever experienced in life. I fell in and out of love and made wonderful friendships with a lot of TG's. I remember thinking that what I loved the most was the emotional roller coaster that comes from falling in and out of love. I am happy that I was able to do it without all the lying and cheating. I wasn't a victim of my compulsions which made it all the more fun. When I met a very special lady it was easy for me to make the transition to a committed relationship. No committed relationship is easy, but I feel fortified because I am a more balanced man. When I look around a see the number of men who haven't a clue I think it's pretty pathetic. Men in their 50's and 60's and yes even 70's who still let their little head manage their affairs. These men dishonor themselves and they dishonor all men. I don't have a problem with peoples lifestyle choices but we don't have to be lier's and cheats to do it.

An unexamined life is not worth living said Socrates (it appears that some of you children posting here would have handed him the hemlock) and he was murdered for his views. My suggestion for you is don't kill the messenger. Learn something for yourself. What are you afraid of?

I'm not suggesting that you go out and look for a men's group, but there are many great books on the topic that might just introduce you to yourself. "Ironjohn" is a good start but there are hundreds.

Edited May 19, 2011 by trisailer

[gregb]

It is interesting that nobody has brought up the biological, evolutionary reasons for these male/female traits. The simple fact is, thousands of years ago, our ancestors needed to go out and hunt in packs. The men went and hunted for food, the women took care of the kids. It was inevitable that many men got killed in this arrangement. Women had the luxury of sitting around the camp, sharing their thoughts and fears with other women, going through terrible emotional times. Any man who got caught up in this kind of feeling quickly got eaten on the next hunt. Nature selected men for their ability to repress feelings. That is the very essence of being a man. That is what makes him able to continue hunting after watching his best mate get turned into a dinner platter for the bear they were chasing.

Men can break down and feel emotions. But usually when they returned to camp, where they were safe in the arms of their mate. The next morning, they put that behind them and went out and hunted again.

This process is still alive today. People who don't understand this and think that men should be women, and that we injure ourselves if we don't share our feelings with other men, don't understand what it means to be male. The men alive today are direct descendants of those men best able to suppress their feelings and get the job done. We may hurt the same as a woman, but we are bred not to be crippled by it. It is our nature.

I have a 2 male friends. I talk to both of them daily. I know both of them would probably give body parts to help me if necessary. But I don't share my emotions with them, and they don't share theirs with me. We do that back at home with our wives, where we are not slaying lions and bears. My wife is my best friend. I would be lost without her. I don't event want to think about how to go on in that circumstance, or what I'd do if I found out she'd betrayed me. One thing I would not do though is discuss it with my male friends, at least as anything more than a superficial discussion. If I really needed help, I'd pay a therapist. I definitely would not start a thread about it on Thai Visa.

This is also why men are much more likely to die shortly after losing their wives, vs. women after losing their husbands. They truly have nowhere else to go. Men and women are different. There are biological reasons why that is. Our modern lifestyle is simply so divorced from our roots that we can no longer see the relationship though.

[bobbin]

I think this is an interesting thread, although it got off to a bad start by being a bit too ......emotional.

Not helped much either by the titters from the boys in the back of the room.

The OP has subsequently done a better job of explaining his premise and so the discussion has gained depth.

Men/Women.

An interesting article I read yesterday explored why powerful men cheat. (DSK, Arnie the most recently outed. Tiger was last year's poster boy.) Simplistic answer is because they can. But in reality, nature/evolution has given males powerful sex drives for a reason. It is a successful evolutionary strategy. Females do not share the same level of drive. They are and have to be more selective. This leaves the typical males having to learn strategies for controlling the powerful drive due to lack of access. Most men are, at least physically, reasonably successful at this. Their mind (in-bred drive) is usually another matter. What's the saying? Men think about sex 6 times a minute... Whew!

For powerful, rich men, the world is their oyster (Hoi). Opportunity abounds. As for myself, I am neither rich nor powerful. But...I live in Pattaya. Thank you God. (that was humour..for the challenged)

Oops. I think I'm going off on a tangent.

So... warrior societies, bonding, hunting in packs. That's where we come from. Not so strange. Modern life seems to be every man for himself..except in war. That's when it makes sense to stick together.

[trisailer]

Thank you Gregb for your thoughtful post.

I agree with your statement about the hunter "Any man who got caught up in this kind of feeling quickly got eaten on the next hunt." Your correct that hunters shouldn't be thinking about anything but the hunt while they are hunting, but I would add to that that all of these hunters experenced rituals around both the hunt and also the transition of boys to men.

I have absolutely no desire to do the "mens work" stuff because I already did it. It is now part of me.

There is now significant medical evidence that the biological mechinism that allows us the intense focus for the "hunt" does not get turn off in modern society because there is no reentry mechinism. Each and every warrior/hunter society had rituals to do what we modern men have to look for in self-help books.