Reasons of change

[thaihome]

]

In my case, and the other 120 or so expats that I work with, we're 'head office' employees and are funded by the revenues received by head office in US$ from our project.

Local revenues are used to pay local subcontractors and suppliers and local salaries.

Then you have an intercompany agreement and you had better be prepared to justify both the fact that actual offshore services were done and cost of those services are not unjustifiably low.

Doesn’t change the fact that you are working in Thailand and regardless of where you receive the money, you owe Thai tax on it. Your company (and I have pretty good idea who it is) is eventually going to do away with the split contracts, it is a risk they will eventually decide to stop taking.

TH

[WarpSpeed]

Absolutely, I have nothing to be defensive about and haven't defended myself once in this thread but you and others have been quite the opposite.. And again I reiterate this is not the topic, nor am I.. To refresh, the topic is about how much the OP realistically needs to live on and not who's being defensive or living above their means..

You are clearly the type of person who can dish it but not take it. You have no problem spouting off about how wonderful your lifestyle and financial choices are, and how people are "snobs" if they make more money and choose to spend it. Yet when people have views other than your own, suddenly you pull the "it's off-topic" card. My first comment about how people live within their means because they have to was certainly related to the original question, because it directly related to the OP's upcoming decision. Discussing the price of the QSI school in Phuket, simply to object with a poster who stated the facts about how much money he spends on education each month - is that any more on-topic than my comments??

But if you insist on sticking to the OP and not allowing anyone to go off on tangents like you have, then fine. To the OP I would say that yes, you can live off of that salary, but think long and hard about if you would really want to. It would be a shame to see you turn into one of those bitter, angry expats who can't stand the thought of other people being more well-off then they are.

I've got nothing to take, nice attempt though at twisting the focus from people of your ilk to me..

[WarpSpeed]

Maybe not for me to decide what they do with their money but I am certainly entitled to let them know my impressions. Cheap Charlie is no problem for me in fact makes me proud to SAVE money and pay less then you and others did for the same item just because I was thorough about shopping it and not buying the first one off the shelf just to show I can, don't have an ego that big in spite of those who don't know me thinking I do.. It's a lot more to be proud of then pretentiously flaunting my income like a peacock in heat..

JFYI I'm no cheap Charlie I just don't waste money on frivolous, materialistic items that serve no other purpose except to make me look ostentatiousness, I tip generously for services most probably don't tip for at all (especially those with money who I've known over my life to be the cheapest Charlie's of all) and anytime I get more service then was expected it is also monetarily and verbally acknowledged as are all other things that REALLY matter..

My impression stands and it's <deleted> to say 150 to 200k per month is required to live comfortably especially with children the age of his as I live comfortably with 2 children of similar age for a third of that per month and that was the OP's question, not what it takes for you or others to live comfortably high up on your pedestal...

My fixed costs with a kid in international school is 75k a month before I even have a beer or a bowl of rice, and I don't have rent to pay.

Your kid is how old?? And is that absolutely the only school they can attend?? I checked out a very nice school QSI International when I was in Phuket and it was no where near that cost for young children.. Specious argument without all the facts..

That's not the cost for the school, that's my fixed costs which includes having a 7 year old in International School.

Understood.. More reasonable..

[WarpSpeed]

Live on Kho Samui!!! Who is it that put their foot in their mouth??? You don't do irony do you?

yes i have been on the island for 11 yrs and i still have not gone native ,which from what i gather you expect us all to do, i assume you live somewhere in the n.e. have a great life style being one of the locals, thats great if that is what you want but I dont, I like what samui has to offer if you dont then maybe it is because you are a gone native snob.

That's not irony, that's being obtuse ..

[PattayaParent]

]

In my case, and the other 120 or so expats that I work with, we're 'head office' employees and are funded by the revenues received by head office in US$ from our project.

Local revenues are used to pay local subcontractors and suppliers and local salaries.

Then you have an intercompany agreement and you had better be prepared to justify both the fact that actual offshore services were done and cost of those services are not unjustifiably low.

Doesn't change the fact that you are working in Thailand and regardless of where you receive the money, you owe Thai tax on it. Your company (and I have pretty good idea who it is) is eventually going to do away with the split contracts, it is a risk they will eventually decide to stop taking.

TH

Then they'd lose a lot of expats and have to employ locals to do the work, that would be a bigger risk for them.

[maccaroni man]

Live on Kho Samui!!! Who is it that put their foot in their mouth??? You don't do irony do you?

yes i have been on the island for 11 yrs and i still have not gone native ,which from what i gather you expect us all to do, i assume you live somewhere in the n.e. have a great life style being one of the locals, thats great if that is what you want but I dont, I like what samui has to offer if you dont then maybe it is because you are a gone native snob.

That's not irony, that's being obtuse ..

If you have in fact gone native then yes i can see the irony in my saying i live on koh samui; true it is not the real thailand to certain poeple however i dont see how you telling me i dont know how to manange my money is not being a bit obtuse on your part. the fact is i and imo most of the people who spend what we spend do so within our means, with no wish or hope that others will think better of us. why is that so hard to understand? I spend what i can afford on what i want.

[thaihome]

]

In my case, and the other 120 or so expats that I work with, we're 'head office' employees and are funded by the revenues received by head office in US$ from our project.

Local revenues are used to pay local subcontractors and suppliers and local salaries.

Then you have an intercompany agreement and you had better be prepared to justify both the fact that actual offshore services were done and cost of those services are not unjustifiably low.

Doesn't change the fact that you are working in Thailand and regardless of where you receive the money, you owe Thai tax on it. Your company (and I have pretty good idea who it is) is eventually going to do away with the split contracts, it is a risk they will eventually decide to stop taking.

TH

Then they'd lose a lot of expats and have to employ locals to do the work, that would be a bigger risk for them.

Actually what it does when they go to full disclosure is increase their cost because of the tax equalization programs required to make up for the local taxes paid.

For an EPC project with the usual onshore/offshore prime contract structure, you can hide the offshore payments to the onshore expats among the actual services and material provided by the offshore contracts. For a project with just onshore contracts, such as PMC services, it becomes problematic to hide it effectively.

The issue then becomes an ethical business practice one. After all, does your company do split payrolls for the expats working in Australia for example? Why are they only used in developing countries where the revenue depts are not perceived as being sophisticated enough to detect the use of them?

As I am sure you are very likely well aware, times continue to change for the overseas expats and this is just another “nail in coffin” so to speak.

TH

[samran]

The issue then becomes an ethical business practice one. After all, does your company do split payrolls for the expats working in Australia for example? Why are they only used in developing countries where the revenue depts are not perceived as being sophisticated enough to detect the use of them?

As I am sure you are very likely well aware, times continue to change for the overseas expats and this is just another “nail in coffin” so to speak.

TH

I wouldn't frame it that way.

I often work on contracts that the clients are offshore, and so is the work. And it is performed outside of Thailand. So the revenues go into a HK based company.

If the revenues are derived from a Thai client then they go into the Thai company - and proper taxes are incurred.

And I season my personal income so that it stays outside of Thailand in the year that it earned.

I don't really but the 'developing country' angle, only because the UK has an analogous law for 'non-doms' as far as I can figure and from what my friends working in Australia tell me, non-citizens and non-PR's working on 486 visa's are exempted from a whole range of Australian income taxes....

Edited June 1, 2011 by samran

[PattayaParent]

Actually what it does when they go to full disclosure is increase their cost because of the tax equalization programs required to make up for the local taxes paid.

For an EPC project with the usual onshore/offshore prime contract structure, you can hide the offshore payments to the onshore expats among the actual services and material provided by the offshore contracts. For a project with just onshore contracts, such as PMC services, it becomes problematic to hide it effectively.

The issue then becomes an ethical business practice one. After all, does your company do split payrolls for the expats working in Australia for example? Why are they only used in developing countries where the revenue depts are not perceived as being sophisticated enough to detect the use of them?

As I am sure you are very likely well aware, times continue to change for the overseas expats and this is just another "nail in coffin" so to speak.

TH

Regarding splitting payrolls for the expats working in Australia I don't know yet as we haven't commenced the work on the project in country yet although the guys from here that want to go to the project tell me that the company will take care of the tax.

A recent EPC job I saw advertised stated a tax free salary in Australia which is all that would concern me. What the company has to pay in taxes and how they do it I'm not interested in but I assume there is some sort of tax equalisation as they pay tax in the home office on the salary they pay offshore and they wouldn't pay twice.

If there are increases in costs to the company they will just reflect those costs in the Contract Price and the client will pay in the end with the company and myself and other expat employees being no worse off.

Edited June 1, 2011 by PattayaParent

[Spoonman]

the fact is i and imo most of the people who spend what we spend do so within our means, with no wish or hope that others will think better of us. why is that so hard to understand? I spend what i can afford on what i want.

Ditto that, I know what I earn and spend accordingly without going into debt, whats left at the end of the month is considered a bonus and shipped offshore into my savings account.

[gkinbkk]

I work for an American MNC here in BKK. Thy will not co-operate on being creative with taxation laws, fair enough I guess. 

The money you are being offered is way too low. I would not even think about it.  

Dont forget that the first year of school comes with the enrollment fee which is going to be the equivalent of an extra term and I dont think you can afford it. Also it will be touch and go to see what your housing allowance will get you after tax. Plus food Plus transport....

Cost of living has gone up immensely in BKK recently and I am struggling from week to week with my schooling paid for me.  

Do not listen to the people on this forum that tell you its enough, its not if you want to maintain the same standard of living, eat the same food etc. Many of your groceries will be more expensive in BKK than back in the US as they are all imported. Your air conditioning/power bill on a 3 bed place is going to be in the region of 7-10k a month. Cable TV 2k a month.Internet on average 1k a month. Weekly trip to the supermarket around 3k. Go out to a restaurant for dinner with the family 2k plus. It all adds up very quickly.  

BTW my wife is expat Thai, we came here from stints in Australia and Singapore over the last ten years. I think she is more miserable here than me despite being 'home'. She finds the attitude of the Thai people has changed a lot in the time she has been gone and found it difficult to assimilate back in. She has a passion for cooking that she developed in Australia which, with the cost of imported foodstuff, is almost impossible for her to pursue here on my salary.  

We've only been here 9 months, am on a bit more than you are being offered ( a lot more if you include education) and can't wait for my contract to finish so I can get the <deleted> out of here and get our life going again.  

Unless you have really compelling reason to come to Asia (money, career, lifestyle)then you should stay at home....

Edited June 3, 2011 by gkinbkk

[maccaroni man]

I work for an American MNC here in BKK. Thy will not co-operate on being creative with taxation laws, fair enough I guess. 

The money you are being offered is way too low. I would not even think about it.  

Dont forget that the first year of school comes with the enrollment fee which is going to be the equivalent of an extra term and I dont think you can afford it. Also it will be touch and go to see what your housing allowance will get you after tax. Plus food Plus transport....

Cost of living has gone up immensely in BKK recently and I am struggling from week to week with my schooling paid for me.  

Do not listen to the people on this forum that tell you its enough, its not if you want to maintain the same standard of living, eat the same food etc. Many of your groceries will be more expensive in BKK than back in the US as they are all imported. Your air conditioning/power bill on a 3 bed place is going to be in the region of 7-10k a month. Cable TV 2k a month.Internet on average 1k a month. Weekly trip to the supermarket around 3k. Go out to a restaurant for dinner with the family 2k plus. It all adds up very quickly.  

BTW my wife is expat Thai, we came here from stints in Australia and Singapore over the last ten years. I think she is more miserable here than me despite being 'home'. She finds the attitude of the Thai people has changed a lot in the time she has been gone and found it difficult to assimilate back in. She has a passion for cooking that she developed in Australia which, with the cost of imported foodstuff, is almost impossible for her to pursue here on my salary.  

We've only been here 9 months, am on a bit more than you are being offered ( a lot more if you include education) and can't wait for my contract to finish so I can get the <deleted> out of here and get our life going again.  

Unless you have really compelling reason to come to Asia (money, career, lifestyle)then you should stay at home....

[x8sam8x]

I work for an American MNC here in BKK. Thy will not co-operate on being creative with taxation laws, fair enough I guess.

The money you are being offered is way too low. I would not even think about it.

Dont forget that the first year of school comes with the enrollment fee which is going to be the equivalent of an extra term and I dont think you can afford it. Also it will be touch and go to see what your housing allowance will get you after tax. Plus food Plus transport....

Cost of living has gone up immensely in BKK recently and I am struggling from week to week with my schooling paid for me.

Do not listen to the people on this forum that tell you its enough, its not if you want to maintain the same standard of living, eat the same food etc. Many of your groceries will be more expensive in BKK than back in the US as they are all imported. Your air conditioning/power bill on a 3 bed place is going to be in the region of 7-10k a month. Cable TV 2k a month.Internet on average 1k a month. Weekly trip to the supermarket around 3k. Go out to a restaurant for dinner with the family 2k plus. It all adds up very quickly.

BTW my wife is expat Thai, we came here from stints in Australia and Singapore over the last ten years. I think she is more miserable here than me despite being 'home'. She finds the attitude of the Thai people has changed a lot in the time she has been gone and found it difficult to assimilate back in. She has a passion for cooking that she developed in Australia which, with the cost of imported foodstuff, is almost impossible for her to pursue here on my salary.

We've only been here 9 months, am on a bit more than you are being offered ( a lot more if you include education) and can't wait for my contract to finish so I can get the <deleted> out of here and get our life going again.

Unless you have really compelling reason to come to Asia (money, career, lifestyle)then you should stay at home....

Seems like your family in a way is similar to mines. I'm leaning towards of just dumping the job offer from all the replys, it seem Thailand is not what is use to be, as in cost of living. My current lifestyle is frugal with little spurges here and there when compared to American standards, but keeping the lifestyle I have right now for my family seems it will take a lot more in Thailand. There is no compelling reason for me to go, I just thought it would be a nice adventure for my family to live overseas for the first time.

Ive been asking to negotiate the salary and seem like they wont go any higher than 50K ........ guessing I will take job offer from another company.

[OriginalPoster]

I work for an American MNC here in BKK. Thy will not co-operate on being creative with taxation laws, fair enough I guess.

Likewise when I worked for an American MNC in Bangkok. They were willing to gross up your salary so that you're total tax burden would be the same as if you were in the US but they played 100% by the book when it came to dealing with the Thai IRS. Apparently though comanies in the oil & gas industry have more of a taste for getting "creative" in terms of paying taxes to their host countries.