Culture Of Bribery Pulls Thailand Down: FTI

[webfact]

Culture of bribery pulls the country down: FTI

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Bribes to politicians and bureaucrats are becoming bigger, are bloating operating costs and are burdening consumers and society, a panel concluded last week.

"We've received a lot of complaints at the Federation [of Thai Industries] that the figure has even gone above 30 per cent and is not going down," Kriengkrai Thiennukul, deputy secretary-general of the FTI, told the roundtable organised by Krungthep Turakij, a sister daily of The Nation.

The problem has led to some corporations grouping together in an effort to stop the practice but some companies feel it's necessary for their survival.

"This distorts production costs," he said.

Many companies end up not wanting to compete on product or service quality, efficiency and innovation. Instead, they focus on winning state contracts or concessions through bribery, he said.

"The quality decreases and innovation is no longer needed. All they think about is how to lobby [to win contracts]."

Paiboon Ponsuwanna, chairman of the Thai National Shippers' Council, said the hidden cost is passed on to consumers and the public and makes the economy less productive.

"This is a fact that we cannot deny," he said.

The panel, which included representatives from three political parties, also saw politicians denying that they tolerate corruption.

One even tried to turn the tables on the business representatives, claiming it's the Thai-Chinese private sector that introduced the notion of grease or facilitation money, known in local Chinese parlance and in Thai as "pae chia".

"It's you people who invented pae chia. It's you who corrupted bureaucrats," said Suphachai Jaisamut, spokesman of the Bhum Jai Thai Party.

Suphachai defended his party, which is often portrayed by the mainstream mass media as crooked, by saying his party doesn't tolerate graft and fraud.

"We don't know what to say if someone asks if we have a policy against corruption because we don't engage in corruption to begin with," he said.

If any party members are dealing in corruption, they will definitely be caught, he added.

Peeraphan Saliratwipak, a senior Democrat Party member and caretaker justice minister, said as a party member that the party has been pushing to rescind the statute of limitations for corruption cases.

Insisting that his party does not tolerate any corruption and does have a clear anti-corruption policy, Peeraphan suggested that morality and ethics education need to be reintroduced in schools so children will be imbued with an anti-corruption ethos.

Pheu Thai deputy leader Kannawat Wasinsangvorn said monetary compensation for Cabinet members and MPs is still lower than the Southeast Asian region and something could be done about it in order to lessen the temptation for politicians to bend the rules.

The crisis of corruption should be tackled by all stakeholders and not just politicians, including educators, who have the duty to inculcate the right attitude into their students, and the mass media, which has an obligation to monitor state contracts awarded to businesses, he added.

-- The Nation 2011-05-30

[arrowsdawdle]

So, they are saying Thailand needs to call upon educators to dispel the practice of corruption by teaching children. Let's get this straight. These would be the same educators that do not teach during appointed hours so that they can receive bribes to teach after hours? More pretzel logic.

[Thaddeus]

And then they had lunch.

[Deez]

"We don't know what to say if someone asks if we have a policy against corruption because we don't engage in corruption to begin with," he said.

What a classic response. Its like saying.. We dont know what to say about minimum wage policy because we dont make minimum wage.

[random]

If any party members are dealing in corruption, they will definitely be caught, he added.

and if they are PTP the party will be disbanded, and if they are dems the party will be pushed forward to govern.

In all honesty the main concern for people getting caught here is not the corruption, it is the fact they got caught.

[arthurwait]

I have just one question after reading this highly imformative news.

Do bears shit in the woods ?

[Farang0tang]

I have just one question after reading this highly imformative news.

Do bears shit in the woods ?

Do drivers pi$$ on the roadside?

[SGD]

So, they are saying Thailand needs to call upon educators to dispel the practice of corruption by teaching children. Let's get this straight. These would be the same educators that do not teach during appointed hours so that they can receive bribes to teach after hours? More pretzel logic.

Classic observation.

Doomed in my lifetime and that of my children I suspect.

[selftaopath]

Corruption is endemic in Thailand (Land of Scams/Lack of Sanctions) LOS. There is no "sub culture" of corruption it is the entire culture. To say otherwise might prompt some to think this country ought to be advertised as AMUSINGThailand - except for the fact that the poor just keep getting poorer.

[puipuitom]

Thais and honesty: I do business with this origin since 1976.

A police officer who wants 300 THB because.. he could not see your face behind the helmet screen.

You want a container our quick. Oh solly have to inspect first. unless 2000 THB call it " removable inlay paper"

Contract? As soon as the Thais see a reason to walk away from it, they do it. Result: a Thai contract is even not worth the paper it is written on.

[Dokmai123]

Any serious measures to change the culture of corruption in Thailand will first require a change in the culture itself. A very difficult thing to achieve for any civil society where negative cultural behaviors undermine society as whole. Ultimately laws must be revised to impose sentences/penalties equal to the crime and severe enough to change these behaviors or at least greatly discourage people from committing acts of corruption. The law must be enforced, and that means you would need effective and productive investigative services, police operations and swift judicial action. Having lived here on and off for 18 years I personally understand how difficult such an undertaking would be.

Corruption permeates every level of strata in Thai society, and a stratified society it is. That is part of Thai culture as well. But you know what? Every "National" society is corrupt almost everywhere in the world. And the United States (my country of origin) has proven to be the world's most legally corrupt society in the world. Read Matt Tabibi, Rolling Stone Magazine who has written nationally recognized reporting on the worldwide financial crisis. Whether politicians give their control over to lobbies who give big political contributions and write the framework for legislation and regulatory enforcement, it is the same thing as what transpires here in Thailand at all levels. When you participate in corruption, you give up some measure of your control. You have entered into an unmoral contract and you put yourself at some risk.

Thai moral culture will need to evolve to stay relevant in globalized world. This should really be a very easy thing for Thais to get to. All they have to do is truly believe in the spiritual philosophy (religion) most people profess to adhere to. I would love to see this country free from it's moral hypocrisy. Buddha did not believe in big Wats (Temples) and the whole structure of organized buddhism. It's all about money. Prestige (higher up the strata) means more influence, more power. There are a few groups and Temples around the country that are truer to Dharma. Who recognize Buddhism was never meant to be a congregational religion with a highly organized structure. Did Buddah ever care about any of those things? I think not.

[Just1Voice]

"Momma said there always would be co-rup-shun in Thailand."

Somchi Gump from the movie "Run! Somchi, Run!"

[Puccini]

...In all honesty the main concern for people getting caught here is not the corruption, it is the fact they got caught.

...and that's the honest truth. Another truth is that any government serious about fighting corruption would not stay long in power. Members of Parliament would withdraw their support in droves.

[bobmac10]

Corruption is endemic in Thailand (Land of Scams/Lack of Sanctions) LOS. There is no "sub culture" of corruption it is the entire culture. To say otherwise might prompt some to think this country ought to be advertised as AMUSINGThailand - except for the fact that the poor just keep getting poorer.

To make sense of Thai corruption we really need to understand Thai society.

The country was a feudal system only less than a hundred years ago.

Similar to the English feudal system of the middle ages.

They have never had a revolution to install democracy, their institutions are copies of the European/ Western models but overlaid with a Thai feudal mentality.

The richest, strongest members of society can do what they like, because that is the natutal order of things.

That is why they will never have a real democratic system, because they are just mimicking Western values with no real belief that they are right and just.

Rule of law only applies to the poor and weak.

Corruption (to us) is just the way it has always been in Thailand.

[ginjag]

QUOTE ... Pheu Thai deputy leader Kannawat Wasinsangvorn said monetary compensation for Cabinet members and MPs is still lower than the Southeast Asian region.

What does he mean LOWER-he should have said ZERO. Meaning we are very corrupt but not as corrupt as some others 5555555555555555555Ha Ha. <deleted>. Some cabinet and MPs should be transferred to inactive posts in S Asia. and bring in non corrupt persons maybe thats what they are trying to do---Dubai-calling !!!!!

[TheWalkingMan]

Makes Thailand sound like Ferenginar from the Star Trek universe. For those who do not know, the Ferengi are aliens who place profit above all else. They even have a code of behavior called, "The Rules of Acquisition."

The #1 rule is "Once you have their money ... never give it back." Sound familiar?

Here are a few other gems:

There's nothing wrong with charity ... as long as it winds up in your pocket. (Didn't some tsunami money disappear?)

There's nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman.

Never place friendship above profit.

A deal is a deal ... until a better one comes along.

The flimsier the product, the higher the price.

Enough ... is never enough.

Trust is the biggest liability of all.

Anything worth doing is worth doing for money.

Not even dishonesty can tarnish the shine of profit.

The justification for profit is profit.

Never ask when you can take. (People walking into homes and grabbing what they want).

TheWalkingMan

[BOS2BKK]

Thais and honesty: I do business with this origin since 1976.

A police officer who wants 300 THB because.. he could not see your face behind the helmet screen.

You want a container our quick. Oh solly have to inspect first. unless 2000 THB call it " removable inlay paper"

Contract? As soon as the Thais see a reason to walk away from it, they do it. Result: a Thai contract is even not worth the paper it is written on.

I love that they blame the Chinese. At least this time it is not the Farangs fault. Someday I am going to meet a Thai who accepts personal responsibility for something and I will keel over dead from shock.

[Thongkorn]

I have just one question after reading this highly imformative news.

Do bears shit in the woods ?

A bear went behind a rock for a crap/shit. As the bear squatted down it saw a rabbit. It asked the rabbit ,"does shit stick to your fur rabbit, The rabbit replayed "NO" , WHY, So the bear picked the rabbit up and wiped his arse on it,

Edited May 30, 2011 by Thongkorn

[473geo]

I think the Thai view a 'sweetner' as par for the course, I guess the first effort could be have the receivers say, no, not required, a very difficult situation to resolve.

Of course in some instances business supports this type of thinking all over the world. There are a few instances where you can 'fast track', if you pay higher charges.......but of course if this is explained to all and shown on a price list it will be acceptable?

[jfchandler]

All I want to know is... how much are you guys willing to pay me to make this thread and the entire subject of endemic bribery disappear?

[anterian]

Commenting in this thread is like overkill, anyone familiar with Thailand knows that scams, corruption and barefaced lies are the nature of the place, from the highest to the lowest.

[OZEMADE]

HOW OLD IS THIS GUY, HAS HE JUST DISCOVERED THIS IS HOW THINGS WORK IN THAILAND. THIS BLOKE KILLS ME.

I'll turn the Caps Lock off now.

[atyclb]

Thais and honesty: I do business with this origin since 1976.

A police officer who wants 300 THB because.. he could not see your face behind the helmet screen.

You want a container our quick. Oh solly have to inspect first. unless 2000 THB call it " removable inlay paper"

Contract? As soon as the Thais see a reason to walk away from it, they do it. Result: a Thai contract is even not worth the paper it is written on.

I love that they blame the Chinese. At least this time it is not the Farangs fault. Someday I am going to meet a Thai who accepts personal responsibility for something and I will keel over dead from shock.

Once I scheduled an a/c service visit with the company that I bought it from. I waited almost all day for the team to arrive. Finally I spoke with the manager who told me his team evaluated my a/c and determined the repair parts needed were not available until next week.

Then I told the manager they never showed up therefore impossible to make that statement.,

Manager was very apologetic and sorry and accepted full responsibility. He sent a different team and did not charge me for the repair (non warranty) And wouldn't you know it the manager was was of those rich chinese kids that did a masters in USA.

[garvin123g]

Any serious measures to change the culture of corruption in Thailand will first require a change in the culture itself. A very difficult thing to achieve for any civil society where negative cultural behaviors undermine society as whole. Ultimately laws must be revised to impose sentences/penalties equal to the crime and severe enough to change these behaviors or at least greatly discourage people from committing acts of corruption. The law must be enforced, and that means you would need effective and productive investigative services, police operations and swift judicial action. Having lived here on and off for 18 years I personally understand how difficult such an undertaking would be. ----------..........

Thai moral culture will need to evolve to stay relevant in globalized world. This should really be a very easy thing for Thais to get to. All they have to do is truly believe in the spiritual philosophy (religion) most people profess to adhere to. I would love to see this country free from it's moral hypocrisy. Buddha did not believe in big Wats (Temples) and the whole structure of organized buddhism. It's all about money. Prestige (higher up the strata) means more influence, more power. There are a few groups and Temples around the country that are truer to Dharma. Who recognize Buddhism was never meant to be a congregational religion with a highly organized structure. Did Buddah ever care about any of those things? I think not.

Very well said.

I live here and have for 30 years +/- and love the life and the country very much. I am saddened at the missed potential this country could achieve and the improved life style it's people miss.

I do not believe the culture will change for many generations; it is Thailand. I understand the what and why of how things work here and I just get on with my enjoyment of the positive things life here brings me and my family. It is a pity though, so much missed potential...

Edited May 30, 2011 by garvin123g

[khaowong1]

I have just one question after reading this highly imformative news.

Do bears shit in the woods ?

Do drivers pi$$ on the roadside?

this reminds me of signs on govt. buildings I use to see in Saigon, a sign that said, "don't piss here".

[dale8]

Deny, deny, deny and then verbally attack the accuser. If there is no proof then how could it be true? Cheers

[Thaddeus]

I have just one question after reading this highly imformative news.

Do bears shit in the woods ?

A bear went behind a rock for a crap/shit. As the bear squatted down it saw a rabbit. It asked the rabbit ,"does shit stick to your fur rabbit, The rabbit replayed "NO" , WHY, So the bear picked the rabbit up and wiped his arse on it,

For that joke to work, the rabbit needs to say 'yes'

As far as Thai nationals in any sort of uniform are concerned, they are made of Teflon.

[Tokay]

I wonder if any of them actually grasp just how ridiculous their news is? It's non-stop comedy, year round.

[mania2301]

Is this news anything new??:jap:

[selftaopath]

Any serious measures to change the culture of corruption in Thailand will first require a change in the culture itself. A very difficult thing to achieve for any civil society where negative cultural behaviors undermine society as whole. Ultimately laws must be revised to impose sentences/penalties equal to the crime and severe enough to change these behaviors or at least greatly discourage people from committing acts of corruption. The law must be enforced, and that means you would need effective and productive investigative services, police operations and swift judicial action. Having lived here on and off for 18 years I personally understand how difficult such an undertaking would be.

Corruption permeates every level of strata in Thai society, and a stratified society it is. That is part of Thai culture as well. But you know what? Every "National" society is corrupt almost everywhere in the world. And the United States (my country of origin) has proven to be the world's most legally corrupt society in the world. Read Matt Tabibi, Rolling Stone Magazine who has written nationally recognized reporting on the worldwide financial crisis. Whether politicians give their control over to lobbies who give big political contributions and write the framework for legislation and regulatory enforcement, it is the same thing as what transpires here in Thailand at all levels. When you participate in corruption, you give up some measure of your control. You have entered into an unmoral contract and you put yourself at some risk.

Thai moral culture will need to evolve to stay relevant in globalized world. This should really be a very easy thing for Thais to get to. All they have to do is truly believe in the spiritual philosophy (religion) most people profess to adhere to. I would love to see this country free from it's moral hypocrisy. Buddha did not believe in big Wats (Temples) and the whole structure of organized buddhism. It's all about money. Prestige (higher up the strata) means more influence, more power. There are a few groups and Temples around the country that are truer to Dharma. Who recognize Buddhism was never meant to be a congregational religion with a highly organized structure. Did Buddah ever care about any of those things? I think not.

Thank you for your post. I wish this topic was still available on TV so others could read what you said.