Help The World

[meemiathai]

It wasn't really an earthquake in Iran. It was a nuclear bomb detonated underneath Bam by the US Government.(Bush, of course!) And the US medics sent are actually CIAs to gain intelligence for future invasion of Iraq!

I am 100% sure about that! Well, eh.. maybe at least 90% or 80.....

MMT,

one of the intellectuals.

[Axel]

meemiathai, you brighten my New Year's day.

But how on earth did you find out? It is supposed to be TOP SECRET.

[meemiathai]

When you can be as educated as I am, you won't need any facts to figure it out!

I doubt if I am the only person who knows this secret.

[Boon Mee]

America is not as divided as one may perceive from reading the last few posts. Most of the noise about how divided it is comes from the so-called "intellectual" class distributed primarily on the east & west coasts. Populations inhabiting those areas refer to the rest of the US as "Fly-Over Country" - not worth consideration.

The nation's two largest newspapers NY Times & LA Times are so left-of-center and are so influential one can get the impression America is going to ###### in a hand basket.

What the Hollywood & east coast "Elites" would want you to believe is things were better w/Blow-Job-Bill in office. Yeah, let's lob some more million dollar cruise missles into an empty tents or blow up another pharmaceutical plant in the name of fighting terror.

Have a nice day...

[Thaiquila]

America is not as divided as one may perceive from reading the last few posts.  ...

To respond to Bon, the population centers in the US are in east and west coasts so of course they are more important (and these areas tend to be more left wing). The central part of the country (with the exception of the far north industrial areas and the south) tend to be more conservative. Your observation about the snide comments by the coastals does not refute the divisions.

The LA Times and NY Times are indeed left of center newspapers editorially, but if they were so influential, would the US have all legislative bodies controlled by Bush's party?

Any why is it that Bush people can't let the Clinton era go? That is history. Clinton lied about a blow job. Bush lied to start a war in Iraq. Impeachment proceedings were started against Clinton over that inconsequential lie. The only impeachment proceedings we can hope for against Bush are the 2004 elections. Welcome to the election year in the US.

There is an interesting phenomenom that is going to be a big factor. The base of the Democratic party (the part supporting Dean) hate Bush with the same passion that the Clinton haters (who still can't let it go) did of Clinton. The Clinton-haters passionate base got Bush in 00. But now they have an opposition which is just as passionate. Divided? Most definitely!

[Boon Mee]

It's not just the "Bush" people who can't "let" Clinton go it's the whole ###### country what with Rodham warming up in the bullpen.

But, talking about the scorn Western "intellectuals" heap upon the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive intervention against rogue states seeking to acquire WMDs - these guys are like sheltered orchids who are naive about the world beyond their upscale hothouses.

This Western disease of deductive fury at everything the West does seems to provide some sort of psychological relief (to them) for apparent guilt over privileged circumstances.

These "intellectuals" believe only a few such as themselves have the requisite education or breeding to understand the "real" world.

In the last 24 months the US has defeated two of the worst regimes in modern history and liberated > 50 million folks from the Taliban & Saddam Hussein and lost < 500 soldiers. By any measure, the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive intervention is working. Latest example: Libya, & there will be more to follow.

[Thaiquila]

Boon,

you guys are going to win the election. So congratulations. Most Americans are going to fall for the mindless flag waving and demonization of the opposition.

However, please don't complain to the New York Times and the Washington Post when these things occur:

-- the budget deficit gets so big from paying for wars all over the world that interest rates go through the roof, and the world continues to flee from the dollar (watch the rich country get poor form its own stupidity)

-- the terrorist attacks continue indefinitely because, guess what, Bush's policies have managed to really piss off another billion Muslim youth with nothing to lose

-- the American people (spineless cowards it now appears) take it up the bum again and again, letting go of almost all of their constitutional rights and freedoms with nary a fight

I could go and on but I don't think I'll bother. You can't have a rational discussion with someone who does not differentiate between fighting Al Queda and invading Iraq (no weapons of mass destruction, no ties to Al Queda).

Enjoy the wonderful years under the emerging neo-fascist regime in the US.

[Boon Mee]

Taiquila,

No evidence of Iraq and Al Queda ties? Not unless you don't believe your beloved NY Times that has reported for example: Bin Laden's son and top lieutents in residence before the war commenced. Material recovered since the capture of Saddam conclusively showing mutual cooperation & on.

As far as the last straw the Bush haters are clinging to - no WMDs? As the saying goes "It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings".

," the higher the level of education, the more likely the voter will be for Dean. You might notice that in the intellectual level indicated by most of the pro-Bush posts."

My, my, my - you wouldn't be perchance, one of those efite intellectual snobs previously referred to? There are a lot of very well-educated people out there pal who are so smart they can't tie their own shoelaces.

As Teddy Roosevelt said: "Walk softly, but carry a big stick"

Take comfort in the thought of yr.2004 Taiquia, Rodham might make it...

[Thaiquila]

Boon, you and I could argue these points until the MAD COWS come home, but I don't see the point. I think it is useful for non-Americans to realize that there of lots of Americans (40-45 percent) who strongly oppose Bush. All travelling Americans are now subject to anti-Americanism wherever they go, thanks to Bush.

For Americans who care about saving their own country (and by contrast this should give comfort to those who would like to see America's power decline), check out this clip from todays sfgate.com from a Japanese comentator (if this is true, which I think it is, the only hope is to DEFEAT BUSH):

In the East Asian press, along with the inescapable sense that China, with its booming economy, is becoming an ever more prominent player on the world stage, assessments of the news of 2003 have also been marked by some analysts' recognition that the "American empire," despite George W. Bush's tough talk and big military buildup in the Arab world, may be showing signs of being "on the road to decline." Expressing himself critically -- and bluntly, without the usual Japanese reserve -- commentator Kaname Saruya made that challenging observation in Japan's Asahi Shimbun. The year's events, the specialist in U.S. history observed, showed that the United States is "the world's only remaining superpower, boasting premier economic and military strength," and that Washington "now accounts for 40 percent of global-wide defense-related spending."

But at the same time, suggesting that Bush's team learned nothing from the lessons of the Vietnam War, Saruya noted that "egotism has prevented U.S. leaders from grasping the true scale of the anti-American emotion now spreading around the world."

Considering that he speaks, however unofficially, for a country that is one of the United States' most important allies in Asia, Saruya used language that was notably candid -- and strong. Looking ahead to the new year and beyond, he added, "I fear ... that the ... arrogant self-righteousness of the [united States], which is increasingly causing the superpower to swerve from the path of international collaboration, will undermine the nation's foundation if left unchecked. There is an ominous sensation that America is taking the first arrogant step down the road to decline, following in the footsteps of so many past global empires."

[pnustedt]

"It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings".

The fat lady sang on May 1 aboard USS Abraham Lincoln!

[Georgie-Porgie]

I have been seeing these chicken-little quotes about the decline of the U.S. since I was a young child. Well guess what? They are bullshit! The U.S. has done nothing but grow in power and importance for quite some time now, and all indications are that, despite the wisdom of left-wing loonies like Thaiquila, Al Franken and Michael Moore, this will continue.

[Thaiquila]

I have been seeing these chicken-little quotes about the decline of the U.S. since I was a young child. Well guess what? They are bullshit! The U.S. has done nothing but grow in power and importance for quite some time now, and all indications are that, despite the wisdom of left-wing loonies like Thaiquila, Al Franken and Michael Moore, this will continue.

Yes, and now I suppose you would like Japan to be added to the list of axis of evil nations, for telling it like it is.

All empires do EVENTUALLY decline, as has been shown every time throughout history. So it goes that the USA is not immune from this inevitability. So, at some point, such a commentary will be spot on. So it is really not so loony to pay attention and look at the warning signs, so that the people in the US might do something to at least delay the inevitable.

[Guest IT Manager]

An administrative point. This thread is going well and is concentrating on policies, dogma and attitude. Personalities have not come into play at all and I appreciate that, as do the other admins I suspect.

I find out more from you guys, about the view Americans take of world-scope politics, including SEA and East Asia, that it is why I feel somewhat knowledgeable, since I get both sides of the equation.

It is important for American people to know that many others who aren't, don't understand the electoral system all that well, but getting the information here improves others' understanding. If you want to make sure pweople at least understand how the college system works, this is the place to do it. At least as far as I am concerned.

Thanks but manage the repartee a little so it doesn't become a slanging match of personal vituperation.

[Thaiquila]

Thanks IT. I was kind of surprised that this string wasn't closed already. It is an interesting reflection of internal political American dirty laundry. Politically, the US really has become two separate countries, and both sides aren't very interested in wooing firm members of the opposing camp. Presidential elections are won on the "swing voters", those who for different reasons do not firmly identify with either side.

A simple explanation of the electoral college. Presidents are not elected by majority vote. If they were, we would be talking about President Gore because he won the majority of votes in 00.

Rather, each state is alloted a number of "electoral college" delegates, based on their relative population. So a big population state like California has a massive number and a tiny state like Rhode Island has very few. The original intent of this strange system was so that candidates would not ignore the small states. It is a system very unlikely to be changed, even though when the majority vote candidate loses, there is lot of public anger about it (many people are still very angry).

So the national presidential elections are not really national elections. They are statewide elections in every state. Winner takes all for each state. For example, if you win California by 1 vote, you get ALL of Californias delegates. Crazy, huh?

The winner wins based on the electoral college (state representative votes).

The system does make for some interesting politics. If you look at a colored map of the 00 election, you will see the vast majority of states went for Bush (pretty much the entire huge middle part of the country) while the coasts went for Gore. But the coasts have the big states (California and New York), so it was very close.

The political landscape has changed very little since the last election. The states that were likely Bush in 00 will be likely Bush in 04, and the 00 Gore states are still good bets for the democratic candidate (whoever it is going to be). So if the democrats hope to win, they will have to do a tiny bit better than last time (for example, if the win all the states as last time plus one new small one, they win).

Simple, huh?

[Georgie-Porgie]

Holding the whole country of Japan responsible for comments made by one of it's citizens, sounds like the kind of muddled thinking that goes into most of the "politically correct" stereotypes and generalizations that are constantly thrown around by the lefties to "prove" what a terrible nation America is. ( Look back at this thread for plenty of unoriginal examples). Consequently, I will leave that kind of silly mud-slinging to the left.

As far as the U.S. falling into the sea, it may be inevitable, but the signs are pretty good that it will not be in my lifetime.

[Thaiquila]

My Japan quip was just playful rhetoric.

The issue isn't about America falling into the sea. However, it will almost definitely be subject to severe terrorist attacks in the years to come (even nucleur) and faces challenges I fear the people are not up to.

The issue is that America has lost its moral authority in the world due to the extreme right wing preemptive strike ideology of Cowboy Bush. His arrogance just doesn't play internationally. The result of this is that the US is now hated worldwide. It is hard to maintain a leadership role in the world with that kind of hate. While America has stumbled so badly in international PR, China is picking up the ball.

So if this continues it is quite possible that over time America will join the ranks of the previously empirical. Remember, Portugal was once a great world power. Who thinks about Portuguese influence now? (Though its a lovely country.)

[Axel]

Thaiquila, one might agree to your opinion. From US-side, you are a Bush-basher and America-hater.

My point is, one just cannot get through to make oneself understood.

The opinion seems to be, Bush is the best since we don't have a better one to save the world, without ever contemplating that a big part of the world does not want to be saved Bush-style.

Pitty it is, I love the country (to visit) but for the time being there will be no such thing. Many companies I know of have a travel-restriction: no US-trips unless absolutely essential. No use of US-carriers, avoid US-hotels etc.

This might sound harsh, but I include this in my company. The well being of my staff is more importantant than support of Bush-politics. My US-partners agree to as well and visit Asia on non-US-carriers, if necessary at all to visit.

[maerim]

Alll empires come and go from the Roman to the last one, the British one where the sun never set.

All have left something of good,especially the one my country was responsible for so thats why I don't have to learn any other languages.

Can you imagine what the American one will donate to the world?

Bad spelling,nite.color,favor (don't they have u's there?) clinically obese people terrible food, Sylvester Stallone,Michael Jackson,TV game shows,over zealous lawyers etc.etc. thanks for nothing.

[Khun ?]

Of course vital world assests should be run by dictators and Islamic terrorist

while in the name of business some countries should do back door deals

with these same people. Then we should listen to them how to deal with such

people. Paying ransom of any kind is a no no. Nuke em till they glow would be best serving the world. Your lucky someone has world interest in sight with a means to back their words up. These people would just as soon as blow your non

Islamic arse up on a plane because of your religeon. I see inbreeding is wide spread. Grow some balls and be a man once in your life. Peace has a high price to pay but easy to see some are not up to more than a whimper and spineless words of wisdom. If you were in many countries your free speaking arse would be dead for what you say and believe. I guess it is easy sitting from your safe place to cast the stone. Thank Bhuda no one needs you to be protectors of your own freedoms.

We all are most likely safer and better off for this. In no way would I want these make believe religeons be my guiding light.

[maerim]

I wonder if you could possibly repeat your last post in a language that at least resembles some form of English.

If it makes it any easier YOU CAN TYPE IT IN UPPER CASE LIKE THIS, BUT SLOWLY.

Many thanks

[the gentleman]

I have been away for the last week - seems nothing has changed at all, the same old dreary crap - hang on I will start a new thread for you guys, I will call it US bashing/US supporting, then maybe every thread wont be stolen by The SECRET NERVOUS!

[Khun ?]

I agree. These people want to sit in the nice comfort of their local bar and have never been involved in obtaining freedom for others. Everyone should also have perfect english!!!!!!!!!! And the wimps cry on and become english scholastics who know it all from their lives on the sofa.

[the gentleman]

I did start the thread, but IT sent me to my room, so keep on with the same &lt;deleted&gt; in all threads, it should be great - yawn

[plachon]

Thaiquila, one might agree to your opinion. From US-side, you are a Bush-basher and America-hater.

My point is, one just cannot get through to make oneself understood.

The opinion seems to be, Bush is the best since we don't have a better one to save the world, without ever contemplating that a big part of the world does not want to be saved Bush-style.

Pitty it is, I love the country (to visit) but for the time being there will be no such thing. Many companies I know of have a travel-restriction: no US-trips unless absolutely essential. No use of US-carriers, avoid US-hotels etc.

This might sound harsh, but I include this in my company. The well being of my staff is more importantant than support of Bush-politics. My US-partners agree to as well and visit Asia on non-US-carriers, if necessary at all to visit.

Yeah, it seems a constant case of never the twain shall meet and the many others that mention the good ol' US of A's foreign policy. The only constant is that the Bush defenders come and go, but you and Butterfly stay faithful to the end. not sure where Kwiz has gone for New Years but he's another reliable poster who sees the arguments thru'. going back to your point about boycotting US companies / services is an exellent idea. The best approach that would hit the Axis of Evil (read: Bush, Cheney, Exxon Mobil, Rumsfeld and their cronies) hardest, though is to stop putting a tiger in your tank forthwith. Apart from the obvious links with Iraq, EM was also one of the major bankrollers of bush's last preseidential campaigns and likes to deny that global warming is a reality. In other words, they played a big hand in scuppering the Kyoto protocol and so if you care about this planet, it's a simple choice to make to avoid certain US petrol stations.

[Butterfly]

My Japan quip was just playful rhetoric.

The issue isn't about America falling into the sea. However, it will almost definitely be subject to severe terrorist attacks in the years to come (even nucleur) and faces challenges I fear the people are not up to.

The issue is that America has lost its moral authority in the world due to the extreme right wing preemptive strike ideology of Cowboy Bush. His arrogance just doesn't play internationally. The result of this is that the US is now hated worldwide. It is hard to maintain a leadership role in the world with that kind of hate. While America has stumbled so badly in international PR, China is picking up the ball.

So if this continues it is quite possible that over time America will join the ranks of the previously empirical. Remember, Portugal was once a great world power. Who thinks about Portuguese influence now? (Though its a lovely country.)

Man, I applaude you

You hit it right on the nail. Of course the NeoCons, Right Wing Facist, Bush ass kisser of this board will have problem to understand any of it. Too sad.

[Butterfly]

I have been seeing these chicken-little quotes about the decline of the U.S. since I was a young child. Well guess what? They are bullshit! The U.S. has done nothing but grow in power and importance for quite some time now, and all indications are that, despite the wisdom of left-wing loonies like Thaiquila, Al Franken and Michael Moore, this will continue.

A wounded mutt will bark louder

[Georgie-Porgie]

Warning. Only for readers with at least half a brain:

Of course the U.S. will be subject to terrorist attacks in the years to come. In fact, until these Islamic dogs are hunted down and completely wiped out, most of the World will be. Much of the World is now.

Look at Russia, despite their prominent place in the AXIS of Cowardice, Germany, France and Russia, they continue to suffer attacks from Islamic terrorists regularly.

Although France has actively cooperated with rogue Nations (where did all those blank French passports come from in Iraq?) and, in the past it is rumored, allowed terrorists free passage through their territory, they still have their own problems with Islamic immigrants. There are no guarantees that they will not end up on the wrong side of a few truck bombs themselves.

However, due to the oceans that have protected America from attack over the centuries, combined with some of the best technology in the world and laws that Bush has gotten passed that make it much more difficult for terrorists to operate, America is much less likely to be badly hurt than elsewhere.

In fact, despite all their efforts, since September 2001, terrorists have not been able to mount one successful operation inside the U.S.A.

Anyway, the point is that American hegemony is unlikely to be surpassed for quite some time, ...so get stuffed Euroweenies!

As to this rhetorical tidbit:

"While America has stumbled so badly in international PR, China is picking up the ball".

Huh? Give me a break!

[Butterfly]

My Japan quip was just playful rhetoric.

The issue isn't about America falling into the sea. However, it will almost definitely be subject to severe terrorist attacks in the years to come (even nucleur) and faces challenges I fear the people are not up to.

The issue is that America has lost its moral authority in the world due to the extreme right wing preemptive strike ideology of Cowboy Bush. His arrogance just doesn't play internationally. The result of this is that the US is now hated worldwide. It is hard to maintain a leadership role in the world with that kind of hate. While America has stumbled so badly in international PR, China is picking up the ball.

So if this continues it is quite possible that over time America will join the ranks of the previously empirical. Remember, Portugal was once a great world power. Who thinks about Portuguese influence now? (Though its a lovely country.)

It's is actually funny to see how "some" Americans are blinded by their own stupidity or government. The conservatives have always fought for more freedom and less government, but still they don't mind that a "conservative" president is "removing" their freedom while allowing "more" government interventions in their life. Another contradiction in the world where "War is Peace" and "Ignorance is knowledge"

I had friends from the US coming over this week-end. They are pretty much anti-Bush but they told me that they are "terrorized" of speaking out in the US. The press, the people, the general media are being "self-censored" because they are afraid to be labelled "terrorist" or "traitor" by the "Bush Thought Police". It is case like that that made the introduction of Hitler and death camps possible. People will "surrender" to the "crowd" as soon as they will realize that there is no credible "opposition". We are actually witnessing a case study of a "dictatorship takeover" in a former democracy. The fact that Prescot Bush (Bush Jr Grand Father) was the personal financier of the Nazi Regime and Hitler in the 30s has probably nothing to do with it. Congress did seize the Bush Family assets in 1946 for "trahison" but I guess that didn't stop the Bush Family from getting it back at the American People.

THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER FREE ELECTION IN THE US !!!

[Georgie-Porgie]

For Butterfly only:

Butterfly, persistently STUPID!

[Butterfly]

Warning. Only for readers with at least half a brain:

Of course the U.S. will be subject to terrorist attacks in the years to come. In fact, until these Islamic dogs are hunted down and completely wiped out, most of the World will be. Much of the World is now.

Look at Russia, despite their prominent place in the AXIS of Cowardice, Germany, France and Russia, they continue to suffer attacks from Islamic terrorists regularly.

Although France has actively cooperated with rogue Nations (where did all those blank French passports come from in Iraq?) and, in the past it is rumored, allowed terrorists free passage through their territory, they still have their own problems with Islamic immigrants. There are no guarantees that they will not end up on the wrong side of a few truck bombs themselves.

However, due to the oceans that have protected America from attack over the centuries, combined with some of the best technology in the world and laws that Bush has gotten passed that make it much more difficult for terrorists to operate, America is much less likely to be badly hurt than elsewhere.

In fact, despite all their efforts, since September 2001, terrorists have not been able to mount one successful operation inside the U.S.A.

Anyway, the point is that American hegemony is unlikely to be surpassed for quite some time, so get stuffed Euroweenies.

As to this rhetorical tidbit:

"While America has stumbled so badly in international PR, China is picking up the ball".

Huh? Give me a break!

WTC First attempt: 1993

WTC Successful Hit: 2001

I rest my case !!!

Hint: Terrorists have all the time they need and will hit again when you least expected it (Green Alert)