Do You Support Legalization Of Same Sex Marriage In Thailand?

[IanForbes]

It is amazing that there are still people who believe that gay parents are somehow going to have an affect on their children in a sexual way. The child is going to grow up with his or her own sexuality. It's no different than straight parents having to take responsibility for having a gay child. It just happens. Why it happens I don't think anyone actually knows. I could make a few other observations about the sexuality of certain people, but that would start a war here. All children really need is love, discipline, consistency, and the broadest range of opportunities possible to develope into a responsible adult. That means the availability of good food, shelter and a proper education. From my experience, gay parents on average, take a far greater interest in their children's well rounded behaviour than male + female parents that vary widely from terrible to excellent. My ex wife and I used to run a day care for children and we always noticed the differences in parenting. We had to deal with their kids every day.

[samran]

It isn't natural, so shouldn't be allowed.

I've even heard that homosexuals should be able to adopt - what a load of bollo****

I once had a rough as guts miner from Mt Isa tell me the same thing.

My response - quite bluntly - was that if a mans instinct was to stick his penis up another consenting guys bum, then it probably be pretty natural, otherwise, why would you do it?

He quickly changed his mind after that line...

Edited June 1, 2011 by samran

[samran]

Scientific research, blah blah blah.

What would the rabble say about "scientific research" that said that children who grow up with mixed-race parents are more likely to grow up unbalanced? You know, it wasn't that long ago when people were saying such stupid things.

Or that children who grow up with parents whose ages are more than 10 years apart are unbalanced? Or children who grow up with a single parent are unbalanced?

Would anyone support banning these kinds of relationships or these kinds of people's rights to raise kids the way they want? I don't think so...

Apples and Oranges.

The difference being that there are thousands of mixed race children living in the homes of their biological parents to prove that there is nothing wrong with this. If this were not the case, if there were no mixed race children, and a mixed race couple were looking to adopt and there were thousands of scientific studies showing that the healthiest environment was a couple with the same ethnicity, then anyone who thinks of the child first would have to be concerned.

As it stands, there is nothing that supports this contention, so it can be dismissed. There is no corresponding data on children adopted by homosexual couples, and therefore this can not be dismissed. The difference here is largely whether you put the needs of the child first, or the adult couple first. My position is based strictly on the needs of the child. What two consenting adults do is their own decision, but when it involves an innocent child, their needs and desires are irrelevant to me.

explain this then...

I was bought up as a mixed race child as with a Thai mother and a Farang father. My grandmother lived with us, so I was effectively raised by two women.

No impact on me, nor my sisters as far as I can figure, being raised by two females.

[jdinasia]

It is amazing that there are still people who believe that gay parents are somehow going to have an affect on their children in a sexual way. The child is going to grow up with his or her own sexuality. It's no different than straight parents having to take responsibility for having a gay child. It just happens. Why it happens I don't think anyone actually knows. I could make a few other observations about the sexuality of certain people, but that would start a war here. All children really need is love, discipline, consistency, and the broadest range of opportunities possible to develope into a responsible adult. That means the availability of good food, shelter and a proper education. From my experience, gay parents on average, take a far greater interest in their children's well rounded behaviour than male + female parents that vary widely from terrible to excellent. My ex wife and I used to run a day care for children and we always noticed the differences in parenting. We had to deal with their kids every day.

excellent post

[saraburioz]

Homosexuality is NOT considered a mental disorder in ANY modern country and hasn't been for decades. Your link is absolute <deleted>.

Being a katoey does not automatically make someone unfit to be around kids, just like being straight doesn't automatically make someone FIT to be around kids.

A person should be evaluated on the basis of personal qualifications.

And, from what I gather from the above, I'd much rather leave my kids in the hands of a well-grounded and responsible katoey for the weekend than in yours...

No need to resort to personal attacks. Why are you so annoyed about my opinion?

I've never in my life met a well-grounded, responsible katoey.

Where is there a personal attack? I'm just saying that you do not come across as someone I would want my children to be influenced by. I guess you feel the same way about gays and transgenders.

If you haven't met any well-grounded, responsible transsexuals/transvestites then you apparently don't get out much.

I have met some who are doctors, lawyers, and CEO's of corporations. Both Thai and farang.

You seem to be imagining that all transgenders are shrieking bar girls -- which, to be fair, is possibly all that enter your personal sphere. (That is not a personal attack, by the way -- so please don't accuse it of being one).

Another personal attack - I don't associate with bar girls. My brother in law is highly succesful and a multi-millionaire but he still is far from responsible and well-balanced. Do you really think someones occupation determines their level of being well-balanced? I know some very well-balanced tuk tuk drivers.

[jdinasia]

Indeed.

You know, the Nazis just 70 years ago put together all kinds of "scientific studies" to show that Aryans were superior to all other races...and we all know where that led them.

The Encyclopedia Brittanica itself -- as recently as 100 years ago -- in their section on "Negroes", included all kinds of "scientific" information to show that blacks were a mentally inferior form of sub-species.

In many parts of the "civilized" world, mixed-race couples were not allowed to marry (for fears, obviously, they would create unbalanced and inferior mixed race kids who might be "subject to ridicule") -- and this is well within the lifetimes of most of us here.

Some people never seem to learn.

Didn't apartheid only officially end in 1994?

[trisailer]

It is amazing that there are still people who believe that gay parents are somehow going to have an affect on their children in a sexual way. The child is going to grow up with his or her own sexuality. It's no different than straight parents having to take responsibility for having a gay child. It just happens. Why it happens I don't think anyone actually knows. I could make a few other observations about the sexuality of certain people, but that would start a war here. All children really need is love, discipline, consistency, and the broadest range of opportunities possible to develope into a responsible adult. That means the availability of good food, shelter and a proper education. From my experience, gay parents on average, take a far greater interest in their children's well rounded behaviour than male + female parents that vary widely from terrible to excellent. My ex wife and I used to run a day care for children and we always noticed the differences in parenting. We had to deal with their kids every day.

excellent post

Let me also say excellent post!

[BRichards]

It isn't natural, so shouldn't be allowed.

I've even heard that homosexuals should be able to adopt - what a load of bollo****

Marriage is not natural and mo·nog·a·my is not natural either. BR

[jdinasia]

It isn't natural, so shouldn't be allowed.

I've even heard that homosexuals should be able to adopt - what a load of bollo****

Marriage is not natural and mo·nog·a·my is not natural either. BR

I did a bit more research on the extremist right-wing Christian website sara is using as a defense .... amongst their other stands ... they don't want sex-education in schools to teach anything other than abstinence including not teaching birth control or disease prevention .... they don't want evolution taught in schools ... etc etc etc

[saraburioz]

JD, what exactly is the purpose of this thread? Is it to try to convince people that homosexual marriage is ok? I don't think it's to get people's opinions as you don't seem to be able to accept them,like mine. remember, you are biased in your views.

[Richard4849]

Homosexuality is NOT considered a mental disorder in ANY modern country and hasn't been for decades. Your link is absolute <deleted>.

Being a katoey does not automatically make someone unfit to be around kids, just like being straight doesn't automatically make someone FIT to be around kids.

A person should be evaluated on the basis of personal qualifications.

And, from what I gather from the above, I'd much rather leave my kids in the hands of a well-grounded and responsible katoey for the weekend than in yours...

No need to resort to personal attacks. Why are you so annoyed about my opinion?

I've never in my life met a well-grounded, responsible katoey.

Where is there a personal attack? I'm just saying that you do not come across as someone I would want my children to be influenced by. I guess you feel the same way about gays and transgenders.

If you haven't met any well-grounded, responsible transsexuals/transvestites then you apparently don't get out much.

I have met some who are doctors, lawyers, and CEO's of corporations. Both Thai and farang.

You seem to be imagining that all transgenders are shrieking bar girls -- which, to be fair, is possibly all that enter your personal sphere. (That is not a personal attack, by the way -- so please don't accuse it of being one).

Another personal attack - I don't associate with bar girls. My brother in law is highly succesful and a multi-millionaire but he still is far from responsible and well-balanced. Do you really think someones occupation determines their level of being well-balanced? I know some very well-balanced tuk tuk drivers.

Dude...no one is attacking you personally. So please stop saying that every time someone disagrees with your opinions.

A person's occupation has NOTHING to do with how well-grounded a person is, just as their sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with how well-grounded they are either. Persons need to be evaluated as individuals -- regardless of occupation, orientation, hair color, blah blah blah.

You are the one who put the patently ridiculously premise forward that a katoey could somehow never qualify as an appropriate guardian of a child -- not me.

The fact that you have personally never met a well-grounded, responsible transgendered person is a shortcoming in your own personal experience upon which you have seized to justify bias against an entire group of people.

[jdinasia]

JD, what exactly is the purpose of this thread? Is it to try to convince people that homosexual marriage is ok? I don't think it's to get people's opinions as you don't seem to be able to accept them,like mine. remember, you are biased in your views.

Am I biased? Yes. Are you biased? Yes.

Now that we have that clear .......

I am basing my bias on ... legitimate science and personal opinion/experience. I have posted links to respected organizations and actual studies on the topic.

You are basing your bias on .... no science and personal opinion/experience. You have posted links to a right-wing fundamentalist Christian lobbying group that besides hating gays also is against teaching evolution, teaching birth-control and STD prevention, etc etc etc ...

Your opinion has been noted as has mine. If you drag out something to attempt to support your opinion that is truly extremist or lie about facts it will get smashed down .. the same will happen if I do that. Your claim that it was a "few years ago" that homosexuality was removed as a mental disorder is an example of such a lie. In two years it will be four decades ago ----- that's right ... 40 years ago!

You are welcome to your opinion and if you state it on an internet thread someone will disagree with it. If you defend it with lies someone will call you on it

Edited June 1, 2011 by jdinasia

[samurai]

Indeed.

You know, the Nazis just 70 years ago put together all kinds of "scientific studies" to show that Aryans were superior to all other races...and we all know where that led them.

The Encyclopedia Brittanica itself -- as recently as 100 years ago -- in their section on "Negroes", included all kinds of "scientific" information to show that blacks were a mentally inferior form of sub-species.

In many parts of the "civilized" world, mixed-race couples were not allowed to marry (for fears, obviously, they would create unbalanced and inferior mixed race kids who might be "subject to ridicule") -- and this is well within the lifetimes of most of us here.

Some people never seem to learn.

Agreed, they got it all wrong.

So what could that say about how our *today's knowledge* will be seen in 50, 70 or 100 years?

[samurai]

From my experience, gay parents on average, take a far greater interest in their children's well rounded behaviour than male + female parents that vary widely from terrible to excellent. My ex wife and I used to run a day care for children and we always noticed the differences in parenting. We had to deal with their kids every day.

That is just hetero bashing and prejudice.

Some here will love it.

[samurai]

It isn't natural, so shouldn't be allowed.

I've even heard that homosexuals should be able to adopt - what a load of bollo****

Marriage is not natural and mo·nog·a·my is not natural either. BR

Exactly.

Marriage should be seen as an outdated and backward Institution. To legalize same sex marriage, it will be just strengthen and re-establish that institution.

The previous generation had to fight for the right to live together without getting the sanction by the state or a religious institution.

Now some try a roll-back.

Say NO to Marriage!

[Kwasaki]

I support it in the US, so why not here? It has absolutely no impact on my life what two other adults do or how they live, so I don't see how I can be against it. To me, it merely legitimizes a relationship and clears legal hurdles such as inheritance and such.

Besides, shouldn't everyone have the right to get screwed through divorce?

X 2

I frankly don't care. I don't see much use for marriage anymore between anyone. A piece of paper won't make someone happy. But, it should be easy enough to set up some sort o trust fund or will to protect the financial interests of both partners.

Maybe a little off topic and I can see your point Ian but it is not the case for everyone.

Marriage for a Thai lady to a UK man, is very useful indeed and they need the original marriage certificate for there rightful claims.

Also I like just keeping 400,000 thou aside not 800,000 thou maybe this could apply to gay couples. Horses for courses.

[thaisomchai]

Excellent post JD.

When the OP began this thread, I thought it would attract mainly positive posts, supportive of gay marriage here in Thailand. When the negative posts began, I chalked it up to the usual trolls out to get a rise out people by being contrary. But some of them actually seem to be serious. . . and this is Thailand! Where 95 % of the people are Buddhist and given the general ambiance here just would not care. Oh yes, there are those in government who maintain a hypocritical public persona, those who deny that we have prostitution for example . .or those who got all bent out of shape by the three girls who danced topless at Songkran. So most likely the typical Thai politician would be publicly against same sex marriage, but privately wouldn't care much. It would only pass here if respected higher-ups decided to allow it . .then the lesser gods would jump on the bandwagon. Thailand is still too sensitive about its reputation as the sex trade capital of the world and passing such a law would just not help in that regard.

As for marriage . .it isnt just about procreation. Never has been. Older people beyond child-bearing age get married all the time. . everywhere. Many couples dont have children. (Normal?) Marriage was, for much of Western history, a business arrangement to manage inheritance rights.

Homosexuality has been a part of every human culture that ever was and in the majority of cultures, believe it or not, such activity was viewed positively as a common aspect of the human condition. Look at Greece, Rome. Look at the Samurai of Japan and other warrior cultures. Look at Native American tribes. The Indians of the New World . .North to South America celebrated this aspect of human sexuality.

Most of the hateful rhetoric and opposition to same sex marriage in other countries is generated by fundamentalist Christians based on a few very flimsy Biblical passages taken out of context. They need something to rally around and this issue works. As JD pointed out, same sex marriage was a part of Early Christianity. ( There are well documented ceremonies.) The sacrament lost favor about the time that men took over the Christian message and elbowed out the women who had enjoyed a remarkable measure of equality in the beginning. Then you have religious celibacy presented as the high road to heaven for the next 2000 years. (Normal?)

Wow. I have just glanced at some of the posts that happened since I started typing . . .I am not so sure I even want to post this now.

All those jokes seem totally off topic. No clue who they refer to or what they have to do with same sex marriage in Thailand.

SIGH . .. Dont know why I bother posting on discussions . . .things always go south so fast here

[SteeleJoe]

JD: In reference to the Traditional values Coalition: It might interest you to know that the famed -- and in my view, mostly heroic -- Southern Poverty Law center has it on their list of "hate groups" (a list that the FBI happens to cite as a source).

[Semper]

" Always controversial subject " I have never seen it taken that way in Thailand, it seems to me there is always a light-hearted approach on the subject.

Regards K

[jdinasia]

JD: In reference to the Traditional values Coalition: It might interest you to know that the famed -- and in my view, mostly heroic -- Southern Poverty Law center has it on their list of "hate groups" (a list that the FBI happens to cite as a source).

Absolutely no surprise there --- the guy rates right up there with Fred Phelps!

[SteeleJoe]

JD: In reference to the Traditional values Coalition: It might interest you to know that the famed -- and in my view, mostly heroic -- Southern Poverty Law center has it on their list of "hate groups" (a list that the FBI happens to cite as a source).

Absolutely no surprise there --- the guy rates right up there with Fred Phelps!

Well...maybe not quite (but IMO there's a whole lot of vile loathsomeness in this world that doesn't reach Phelps level): interestingly the TVC apparently claims Phelps is a false flag operation set up to make their kind look bad.

[sbk]

off topic weirdly humorous post deleted.

[saraburioz]

Am I biased? Yes. Are you biased? Yes.

Now that we have that clear .......

Please tell how I am biased.

[jdinasia]

Am I biased? Yes. Are you biased? Yes.

Now that we have that clear .......

Please tell how I am biased.

Please go back and read the post you quoted from .... the whole post. It fairly well explains it

[IanForbes]

From my experience, gay parents on average, take a far greater interest in their children's well rounded behaviour than male + female parents that vary widely from terrible to excellent. My ex wife and I used to run a day care for children and we always noticed the differences in parenting. We had to deal with their kids every day.

That is just hetero bashing and prejudice.

Some here will love it.

How is it hetero bashing. It's the truth. I'm as straight a hetero as there is, but I closely observe what goes on around me. I've had several friends who have had gay sons. I worked very closely with a lesbian woman. My sisters and daughter have lesbian friends. I watch and I listen. My only concern is for children and their chances to succeed in the world as it is now. I don't care one bit about the sexuality of another person... unless it affects me in a negative way. In an ideal world, children would grow up in a heterosexual family with two loving parents who are always available, and who have enough money to provide a modest life style. Unfortunately, that is only a fairy tale and only applies to a small portion of the world's children. There is another fairy tale that says only women are the best at raising children. But that is an entirely different topic.

[jdinasia]

From my experience, gay parents on average, take a far greater interest in their children's well rounded behaviour than male + female parents that vary widely from terrible to excellent. My ex wife and I used to run a day care for children and we always noticed the differences in parenting. We had to deal with their kids every day.

That is just hetero bashing and prejudice.

Some here will love it.

How is it hetero bashing. It's the truth. I'm as straight a hetero as there is, but I closely observe what goes on around me. I've had several friends who have had gay sons. I worked very closely with a lesbian woman. My sisters and daughter have lesbian friends. I watch and I listen. My only concern is for children and their chances to succeed in the world as it is now. I don't care one bit about the sexuality of another person... unless it affects me in a negative way. In an ideal world, children would grow up in a heterosexual family with two loving parents who are always available, and who have enough money to provide a modest life style. Unfortunately, that is only a fairy tale and only applies to a small portion of the world's children. There is another fairy tale that says only women are the best at raising children. But that is an entirely different topic.

Hey .. you even sat for awhile at the TVF Christmas party and drank with a gay guy! ('twas a pleasure meeting you there )

edit 000 sorry Ian --- in an ideal world all children would be loved and cared for by parents that wanted them and protected them ... as you say the gender and parenting myths just don't need to be in there

Edited June 1, 2011 by jdinasia

[saraburioz]

Am I biased? Yes. Are you biased? Yes.

Now that we have that clear .......

Please tell how I am biased.

Please go back and read the post you quoted from .... the whole post. It fairly well explains it

What post?

[jdinasia]

Am I biased? Yes. Are you biased? Yes.

Now that we have that clear .......

Please tell how I am biased.

Please go back and read the post you quoted from .... the whole post. It fairly well explains it

What post?

Feel free to try again in the morning if you cannot currently identify the post you quoted from

[saraburioz]

I never quoted from any post.

[SteeleJoe]