Younger Gay Ferangs...

[xandreu]

Hi All...

I'm moving to Thailand in six weeks, can't wait...

I've visited the fabulous land of smiles a dozen or so times in the last ten years, and can't think of a better place on this planet to live. I've planned to stay for a year at least. After that, who knows..?

One thing that I have noticed during my visits though, is that there seems to be a distinct lack of non retired gay ferang around. I've sampled the delights of Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai, and while in all of these places, I noticed that when it came to being straight, there were ferangs of all ages sampling the delights of Thailand. From families to hen/stag parties to groups of mates to the lone foreigner. They seem to come is all shapes, sizes, social classes and ages.

But when it comes to us gay's, Thailand doesn't seem, to me anyway, to attract anywhere near the wide spectrum of ferang that seems to populate the straight world.

Because of this, I'm assuming that the majority of gay ferang reading this are of retirement age, and perhaps will take/find/seek out offense at my comments, but I'd like to assure you that this isn't the purpose of my post.

I'm 39 myself. Not so old, not so young either. But it does naturally place me in a position to ask why there doesn't seem to be the same wide variety of gay ferangs in Thailand as there are straight ferangs?

I guess I'm asking this because I've decided to live in Chiang Mai, and as much as I easily make friends with people from all ages, backgrounds and sexualities, it would be nice to get to know some guys like myself, ie, gay and non retired. Like I said, I'm sure some people will read this as some kind of insult to retired ferangs, (I've read these boards long enough to know how it works) but we all try and seek out those similar to ourselves in life. Be it similar in age, characteristics, hobbies, sexuality or ethnicity.

I'm just wondering what the likelihood of finding some ferang gay friends around my age in Chiang Mai are going to be?

[tombkk]

I moved to Thailand at age 27, and things may have changed in the last 20+ years (I'm still not retired though). At the time, the pole-dancing scene was for the not-so-young people, while we younger guys went elsewhere. Discotheques that may or may not exist any more today - I haven't been at those young-crowd places for a long time. What will have changed, I assume without any hard facts, is that there should be more young gay farangs in Bangkok now than there were 20 years ago.

I don't know about Chiang Mai. But once you move there and get to know people, one or the other will guide you into the right direction.

[Ijustwannateach]

There are a fair number of those of us around in your age bracket, but most of us aren't interested in the tourist venues anymore and so if that's where you've been you haven't seen us.

Most of the youngest gay foreign guys I've known here I've seen in gyms working out or at universities studying and partying at cheap watering holes with fellow young Thai gay guys. We're talking 20-somethings, here. A few of them make it onto the nightclub scene, but most of their partners are too smart to let them loose there!!!

I'm afraid that, of those foreign gay men that I know in the 'early middle aged bracket' (30-45yo or so) who are long-term residents in Thailand, too many have psychological issues that have put me off friendship with them ultimately. The most common issue is habitual engagement with prostitution, followed by various addictions, other irresponsibilities towards health or career or financial issues, or simply poor and/or antisocial behaviour towards me or others. Possibly these are similar issues among long term straight expats, too ..... but it makes it really, really hard to find good foreign gay male company close to my age. It's much easier to find older foreign expat men who are good company, though their group has a number of the same issues.

[flightcrew1]

Good reply "Ijustwannateach", I could not have said it better. Having lived here for 10 plus years and now middle aged (40's) I have one close farang" friend my age and several others of retirement age. Tourist venues, I of course stay away from. Some of the friendships I made over the years just died as they either moved away or never moved on from being a tourist after several years and were still acting like they were on holiday with the constant drinking, partying and basically whoring around every weekend and them being constantly broke as well.

So where to meet farang your age? I'd say the gym, art openings (numerous now in Bangkok) and if working hopefully develop some friends that way.

I used to go to @Richards Pub on Silom Soi 2 1/2 but that now has closed down, due to the owners raising the rent, which is a shame as there were some decent people that hung out there and I would have recommended that as a place to go and meet some (older) farang.

Good luck!

[endure]

This place gets more and more like the local Baptist chapel by the day. 'Sniffy' just ain't the word

[Ijustwannateach]

^I take your point, but, really, I'm not talking about casual drinking buddies or 'guys I know from the club'- I'm talking about considering people as real friends that I might let enter my life, talk about my work, do favours for, be obligated to. And what I've found is that people who have a lot of issues that I've listed above are not very good for that, for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do in particular with being gay itself. Older people seem to have either taken care of most of those issues or managed to find coping strategies that helped them to survive anyway, and are better risks for investing my time than people my own age, more often than not.

[tombkk]

^I take your point, but, really, I'm not talking about casual drinking buddies or 'guys I know from the club'- I'm talking about considering people as real friends that I might let enter my life, talk about my work, do favours for, be obligated to. And what I've found is that people who have a lot of issues that I've listed above are not very good for that, for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do in particular with being gay itself. Older people seem to have either taken care of most of those issues or managed to find coping strategies that helped them to survive anyway, and are better risks for investing my time than people my own age, more often than not.

You'll be surprised (or not): Most of my friends are straight. I don't know whether it has to do with coping, or whether it's me, or what. My BF and me just lead a "normal" life (whatever that may be), and it happens that this is more similar to more straight than gay people we know.

But: When I was young (let's say, 18 to 35), I was very much in the nightlife scene, going out 2-3 times a week. I enjoyed that but I kind of got bored at the end. I think age changes you, and I don't think that's anything bad. I did all I wanted to do when I was young, so I'm glad and satisfied I did it, and now I can relax.

The OP isn't there yet - he is hungry for life and for experience. I fully understand that, been there, done that. All the best, and please enjoy your trip!

[rickthailand]

i am 43 and have been in thailand for 7 years now and i have to agree the first few years it

was drinking partying etc now for the last 3 years i have settled down and me and my bf

also seem to live a "normal" life. Most of our friends are straight as there are not many

35-45 gay residents in chiang mai. We also stay away from all the tourist places and normally

hang out with our farang and thai friends in local thai places.

rick

[rickthailand]

Oh, and Tom, it may not be "age" that changed you so much as meeting your partner - that's what did it for me, at least, and maybe the same thing happened to rick.

i have to agree with you it was meeting my bf that "changed" me and showed me a total different(better) side of thailand

rick

[tombkk]

Oh, and Tom, it may not be "age" that changed you so much as meeting your partner - that's what did it for me, at least, and maybe the same thing happened to rick.

No, I had already led a quieter life, going out only about once a month to pubs (the elbow-bending type, preferrably with draft beer) and attending private parties I was invited to, when I was introduced to BF by a mutual friend. That was after I had decided that I didn't "need" a BF and a single life "in freedom" was better. This was over 8 years ago. The rest is history, as they say.

[LeCharivari]

Oh, and Tom, it may not be "age" that changed you so much as meeting your partner - that's what did it for me, at least, and maybe the same thing happened to rick.

No, I had already led a quieter life, going out only about once a month to pubs (the elbow-bending type, preferrably with draft beer) and attending private parties I was invited to, when I was introduced to BF by a mutual friend. That was after I had decided that I didn't "need" a BF and a single life "in freedom" was better. This was over 8 years ago. The rest is history, as they say.

In hindsight I was probably mid-way between you and Rick. I was never really a "pub" or "party" person at any age and as I lived out of town I drove so avoided drinking, but I still went out regularly (once a week or so, as I had done for a long time) to meet friends and, occasionally, to indulge myself. I had also "decided that I didn't "need" a BF and a single life "in freedom" was better" prior to meeting my partner, which changed when I met him and changed even more when we moved still further out of town.

Having said that, I wouldn't say that it showed me a "better" side of Thailand because that seems a bit judgmental of those who simply haven't been fortunate enough to meet their BF/partner yet; I don't think that just because some of us are luckier that makes us (or our ways of life) any better - just different (although it may be better for us ,which I am guessing is what you both meant and which I would certainly agree with).

[Ijustwannateach]

Connecting this back to the opening topic, I would also guess that one's relationship style would influence how one kept friends outside the relationship. I know couples that freely and often associate with single and 'married' other couples, whether in a 'scene' or simply as lunch friends; I also know couples that become so domestic that hardly anyone I know runs into them anymore.

[jdinasia]

This place gets more and more like the local Baptist chapel by the day. 'Sniffy' just ain't the word

I agree.

I moved here when I was 39 (but pretty much retired). I already had many gay Thai friends who were professionals (dr's, lawyers.dentists,etc-- not the 'other kind' of professional though I know some of them too!) and met my BF in about 4 or 5 months after moving here. I was over the gay bar scene fairly quickly and found a niche of my own when I wanted a night out drinking/partying etc. I moved up to Chiang Mai Jan 2010 and started working again. Life is far too full to be wondering where the rest of the 'non-retired' gay guys are. I'll occasionally head over to SoHo for a beer, or over to HoM for a sunny afternoon and the pool, but that is about the extent of my "gay scene" life in Chiang Mai. Weekends in BKK tend to be a bit rowdier for me, but I still find myself the only white face wherever I am, even in BKK when I go out to the gay places. (I am almost to the age I qualify for a retirement visa --- 47 now, but if I keep enjoying what I am doing I may just keep working

[tombkk]

Connecting this back to the opening topic, I would also guess that one's relationship style would influence how one kept friends outside the relationship. I know couples that freely and often associate with single and 'married' other couples, whether in a 'scene' or simply as lunch friends; I also know couples that become so domestic that hardly anyone I know runs into them anymore.

I know such "domestic" couples, but mainly from the straight scene. The moment they are married, the wife doesn't let the husband go out any more for drinking with his buddies. I find that sad.

Luckily, none of my gay friends fall into that black hole. We often have lunch or dinner with other couples or individuals, and both of us go out without the other one at times.

[LeCharivari]

I know such "domestic" couples, but mainly from the straight scene. The moment they are married, the wife doesn't let the husband go out any more for drinking with his buddies. I find that sad.

Luckily, none of my gay friends fall into that black hole. We often have lunch or dinner with other couples or individuals, and both of us go out without the other one at times.

Only "sad" if its by pressure rather than by choice, Tom.

I suppose I am in that "black hole" but I enjoy it. I prefer my partner's company to anyone else's, so I have little interest in "going out" as before. I still keep in touch with friends here, but I would never give up an evening at home with my partner eating a delicious Thai meal that he's cooked for us followed by a game of chequers or 'go' for an evening "drinking with my buddies". That doesn't mean that I'm a hermit or that we don't go out separately: he is currently doing a computer studies course, for example, but most "domestic" things from shopping to mowing the lawn we do together because that's the way we like it.

We have friends here as much as once or twice a week, but there are invariably no "white faces" - if I had wanted or felt the need for those I wouldn't have chosen to live here, rather like JD - although in my case there is no "gay scene" for me and the only "gay scene" I have enjoyed, although I don't particularly miss it, is Thailand's "gay bar scene".

[ekayana]

Hello,

Perhaps they are all over the place but perhaps they don't call themselves farang because they are educated English teachers teaching good English...Just a thought :-)

Gay westerner (26) in Surin

[tombkk]

Hello,

Perhaps they are all over the place but perhaps they don't call themselves farang because they are educated English teachers teaching good English...Just a thought :-)

Gay westerner (26) in Surin

Good point, and welcome to the club, newbie!

[ZeroDesire]

I like your post man. I also want to know where they're hiding. I've been in and out and been in Thailand for many years. So for I've managed to meet only one thirty something farang in Bangkok. The rest were either my parents age or older! :-O My guess is that it takes some resources/courage for average farangs to fly all the way and live in Thailand. By the time they ready (accumulate enough courage and resources), they already in their middle age. That's just my guess.

Maybe we should start the "not so old gay farang club" in Thailand! Boy, the club name sounds somewhat discriminating against old farangs. :-) hee hee

Thanks for the gym tip tho. I'll check them out next time.

Patrick

Edited July 4, 2011 by ZeroDesire

[Ijustwannateach]

QED

[LeCharivari]

Hello,

Perhaps they are all over the place but perhaps they don't call themselves farang because they are educated English teachers teaching good English...Just a thought :-)

Gay westerner (26) in Surin

Good point, and welcome to the club, newbie!

"Welcome" indeed, but most expats here don't "call themselves" anything and they don't need to hang a sign around their necks saying "farang" to identify themselves as such to others - most farangs here have no qualms about referring to themselves and other "farangs" as such since that is what they/we are - Expat implies resident, whereas farang includes those here temporarily and is not perjorative.

The thought that the only "educated English teachers teaching good English" here are young and gay is rather a bizarre one - of the "educated English teachers teaching good English" here whom I have met some have been young and some have been gay, but none have been both!

[rickthailand]

Connecting this back to the opening topic, I would also guess that one's relationship style would influence how one kept friends outside the relationship. I know couples that freely and often associate with single and 'married' other couples, whether in a 'scene' or simply as lunch friends; I also know couples that become so domestic that hardly anyone I know runs into them anymore.

I know such "domestic" couples, but mainly from the straight scene. The moment they are married, the wife doesn't let the husband go out any more for drinking with his buddies. I find that sad.

Luckily, none of my gay friends fall into that black hole. We often have lunch or dinner with other couples or individuals, and both of us go out without the other one at times.

my bf and me go out together with friends but

we both go out seperate also with our own friends i think this is what for me keeps it nice, spending time together

but also have your induvidual interest so no black hole here

rick

[Tingtong82]

I am a 28 year old farang who visits Thailand frequently. I have found that in the commercial Gogo scene the guys are older but in a broader sense I have found there to be a fair number of young gay farangs around.

Most of the Thais who I hook up with prefer younger farangs and seem to have been with plenty of farangs in their 20s and 30s.

[Disinto]

I like your post man. I also want to know where they're hiding. I've been in and out and been in Thailand for many years. So for I've managed to meet only one thirty something farang in Bangkok. The rest were either my parents age or older! :-O My guess is that it takes some resources/courage for average farangs to fly all the way and live in Thailand. By the time they ready (accumulate enough courage and resources), they already in their middle age. That's just my guess.

Maybe we should start the "not so old gay farang club" in Thailand! Boy, the club name sounds somewhat discriminating against old farangs. :-) hee hee

Thanks for the gym tip tho. I'll check them out next time.

Patrick

I'm 25, gay and expat working a Western European company here. I know quite a few young gay farangs as well. No worries - we exist

[jaizan]

I'm 25, gay and expat working a Western European company here. I know quite a few young gay farangs as well. No worries - we exist

I guess there would be more young Farang if lucrative expat opportunities were common. I've not seen anything suitable in my current line of work.

I'm already no longer young and it looks like I'm going to have to wait for an early retirement in my 50s to move to Thailand.

[Ijustwannateach]

Was out the other night and saw a white guy in his maybe late 20s, maybe early 30s with a huge crowd of relatively real Thai Chinese- kind of unusual and refreshing to see.

[McDougal]

I fit this category!!I'm a 24 year old gay guy who moved here in May. I am having major problems finding guys to date. It fits this topic nicely because my age range is 22 to 30. I'm finding it really hard to work out whose gay and who isn't. Usually when I do find out, i find Thai men painfully shy or this age bracket tends to be very very immature and just excited at the prospect of sleeping with a falang. I'm in a relatively small province so sleeping around is not a good idea. I tend to find for nightlife I have to head to Bangkok rather than head out to the clubs here.

I miss dating and I would love to date out here. Any tips or advice?

[Ijustwannateach]

If you're going to be out there for long- more than 1 year, say- you might want to start some pretty intense study of Thai until you can read, and then try out the Internet.

Otherwise, I suggest that you DO go to local clubs until your local gaydar is functioning better- many gay guys will be there whether you can tell at first or not.

[LeCharivari]

... I'm finding it really hard to work out whose gay and who isn't. Usually when I do find out, i find Thai men painfully shy or this age bracket tends to be very very immature and just excited at the prospect of sleeping with a falang. I'm in a relatively small province so sleeping around is not a good idea. I tend to find for nightlife I have to head to Bangkok rather than head out to the clubs here.

I miss dating and I would love to date out here. Any tips or advice?

Presumably you mean having problems finding Thai guys to date?

Some of your post surprises me, some not. Most of us are twice your age or more (some a lot more!) but many of us also came here at your age and some things haven't changed that much. You'll find that most farangs here had similar difficulty working out who was gay or not and that it took time to adjust (a number of posts in the gaydar topic talk about exactly that, but don't waste your time beyond page 2) .

I'd go along with the immaturity view as a very broad generalisation which many Westerners feel, but again its adapting to a different culture as it all depends on your yardstick. Shy? Again, its understanding the culture and so much depends on how well you can communicate with each other and what your comparative (or perceived) social levels are.

It really depends on where you are, where you meet your Thai friends, and how you can communicate. What surprises me most is not so much that you are finding it hard to work out who is gay or not, but that you are finding it hard to find gays to date. As a 24 year old gay farang, as long as you are reasonably presentable, many Thai gays would normally be searching you out once it was known that you were gay. Maybe you are trying too hard to find someone you like or someone you can immediately relate to mentally as well as physically, which is where communication comes in. If you can't yet speak Thai, how do you converse with your peers?

My own advice, based on the little information you have given, would be to do whatever you would do in your own country if it worked for you there. If you went to the gym, then go to the gym; went clubbing, go clubbing, went cycling, go cycling, etc. Gay Thais tend to be far less insular than Westerners and although many will have their own gay friends and gay group many will also just have "friends", gay and straight, with whom they mix and once they know you are gay (let it slip in conversation as if it means nothing, and within seconds everyone will know) some of them just may see you as a "date" rather than a trophy.

If you feel like giving any more details (where you are, what you do professionally, where and how you meet Thais and how you communicate, etc) its possible someone may be able to give you some more specific ideas.

[McDougal]

I was merely pointing out I was a young gay farang and here I was... My main problem is every Thai gay and their uncle seems to have the one mission of sleeping with the farang from the word go. I'm learning to speak Thai and I have regular Thai lessons. I'm open to dating anyone really. I've dated asians before back in the UK. I just find here to be a whole new kettle of fish. I was really rather hoping to make gay friends through this who can show me the ropes, let me know where to go in Bangkok and where to avoid (Siom Soi 4 ended up in heading to Khaosan road for a night out after finding limited people to speak with!)

Would anyone be kind enough to adopt a wee young Brit?

[Ijustwannateach]

You should enjoy your popularity while you're so young here, though I know that unwanted attention is, well, unwanted. Why not find one or two that you like and date them out there? Why do you need to come to Bangkok for what will only be more of the same, only further away and unavailable most of the time? If you're young and even vaguely handsome, don't think that the Bangkok Thais will want to sleep with you any less quickly!

I'm afraid that if you're looking for 'mature' Thai men, your age bracket is not the right place to look. Thai young men and women are both coddled and treated like children in society until their mid-twenties, if not later, and the 'cult of cuteness' prevalent in pop culture these days encourages behaviour that is often not that age-appropriate. Lengthy in-depth conversation anyway is probably not going to be a big thing on the menu, at least not until your Thai is immensely improved, or unless you would like to date very accomplished Thais in their late twenties or thirties (which has its own attractions, incidentally).