Property Ownership Here In Pattaya / Thailand

[jay1980]

should be at least 50% of the price you pay at home

I got a right bargain then cos my Jomtien condo cost me less than 10% of what a place the same size would cost me in my home city/county

Park Lane i think !Good for you but if you want to sell it at the same money you bought it for its not so easy .I am in that position myself .Patience is a virtue though and while i wait i do have it rented out ;-)

no plans to sell for a decade or 2

[Darrel]

Why should gold be less expensive here?

Why should your iPad (or all imported devices/products) be less expensive here?

I wont comment on gold (which to me is the ultimate South Sea bubble) but iPads should be cheaper here than in (say) Europe because the VAT is a lot less here than it is there, and the wages of the person selling it are a lot less here, and the costs of running the shop are a lot less here, etc. etc.

And indeed the iPad is cheaper here (and I still dont want one, thank you very much).

That, however, has nothing to do with resale property prices which are entirely dependent on perceived values and not on real costs.

Thailand is full of property owned by people (Thai and farang) who just dont care whether they sell or not. As a result, asking prices are often absurdly high and places stay on the market for months/years/decades, even to the point of becoming totally derelict. This is apparent everywhere but even more so in Pattaya.

This is an anomaly caused by the low cost of property ownership and the fact that very many people own multiple properties, unlike in the West where property taxes encourage people to sell or rent, and most people own only one property in which they live.

[PattayaParent]

Why should gold be less expensive here?

Why should your iPad (or all imported devices/products) be less expensive here?

I wont comment on gold (which to me is the ultimate South Sea bubble) but iPads should be cheaper here than in (say) Europe because the VAT is a lot less here than it is there, and the wages of the person selling it are a lot less here, and the costs of running the shop are a lot less here, etc. etc.

And indeed the iPad is cheaper here (and I still dont want one, thank you very much).

That, however, has nothing to do with resale property prices which are entirely dependent on perceived values and not on real costs.

Thailand is full of property owned by people (Thai and farang) who just dont care whether they sell or not. As a result, asking prices are often absurdly high and places stay on the market for months/years/decades, even to the point of becoming totally derelict. This is apparent everywhere but even more so in Pattaya.

This is an anomaly caused by the low cost of property ownership and the fact that very many people own multiple properties, unlike in the West where property taxes encourage people to sell or rent, and most people own only one property in which they live.

Like The Donald or Oprah for example?

[Richb2004v2]

people come here forgetting they are in a 3rd world country where everything and I mean everything should be at least 50% of the price you pay at home.

A totally ridiculous assertion

Why should gold be less expensive here?

Why should your iPad (or all imported devices/products) be less expensive here?

And more: looks like you don't know what the 3rd World is (or was)

and that Thailand is indexed as a developing country...

Ridiculous!

i-pads are high quality items which are the same item no matter where buy or use them. Thai built house, not so much.

[92302]

Regret and lack of self worth is when one moves to a foreign country on a balloon chaser budget then to tell others renting is the only way, when in reality, it is the only option.

[banglay]

Regret and lack of self worth is when one moves to a foreign country on a balloon chaser budget then to tell others renting is the only way, when in reality, it is the only option.

The ones you are referring too ( "balloon chasers" ) live in total ignorance and denial and will continue to post the same old same old green eyed monster postings .but saying that some genuinely rent out of choice and not financail estraints....and at the end of the day I too would rather live in a sardine tin sized condo (rented) and on a budget that a church mice would struggle to survive on.,....than return to the UK ...

[NanLaew]

Either way, the real estate market is crashing, especially the market for new and used houses.

OK, so that's new houses and old houses.... what other types are there on the market?

I can see where the condo market has a bit of blood in it. After all, that is the only way that foreign ownership is legally guaranteed here. All other arrangements to 'own' a house or land in Thailand as an individual foreigner are just too risky. Having said that, some people, myself included, wouldn't live in a condo even in a country where we could legally own the whole airconditioned box; just not my first choice. Those 'investors' loudly proclaiming that renters are envious of their ability to squander their money in a sh!thole buy what they want is as puerile as the comment about 'regret and lack of self worth'. How about the concept of ordinary people being misled by banks, governments, media and ultimately the realtors that it's possible for anyone to buy whatever house they chose... RIGHT NOW!? Regardless of their credit rating, income or even employment?

What's that old chestnut about not 'investing' any more than you can afford to lose? At the end of the day, there's no pockets in a shroud.

Edited June 5, 2011 by NanLaew

[morphic]

On a technical point, when a foreigner buys property in Thailand, they need to verify that the money has come from outside. So if the price is 5 million baht you need to show that 5 million has come from outside? Then, when it comes to selling you can take that 5 million out again? But two things can happen, the sale price can be higher or it can be lower. If it is lower then you can take that money out again. But if it is higher you can still only take out 5 million? is that how it works?

Anyway, I would have various concerns about "investing" in property in Thailand. One concern would be my ability to get money out of the country again. Others would be the various transaction costs such as business tax, stamp duty, legal fees etc etc. Others would be the costs of maintaining the property. As a "falang" we are always sitting ducks in Thailand, "locals" seem to regard cheating of and theft from falang as their right and I would think getting work done, supervising it, dealing with disputes etc would be very frustrating and potentially far more expensive than it should be. And with condos there is always the risk of corrupt management committees (with their snouts in the trough, treating falang owners as their ATM).

But the primary issue is that there is virtually zero transaction volume in the resale market. If judging potential profits by asking prices then the market looks very healthy, but if judging by the small number of available transacted price points, it looks like a market that "investors" often lose in. I made an offer on a condo and got something like 40% off the asking price before I backed out as it still wasn't low enough. The owner would probably have reduced the offer further but I had changed my mind by then.

My guess is the market is like a one way valve. Thais and falangs tend to buy new property from the developer and after a small window of opportunity to flip (probably before completion) the property is then part of the resale market. Once that happens it is stuck and will probably never ever find a buyer.

But even the chance of flipping low now what are you left with, the choice to accept a very low price if you need to sell or holding the property forever in the hope that prices will surge so massively that a even a "50% discount vs asking price" is still higher than you paid?

No, on balance I think buying property in Thailand is very risky. I am invested in Thailand, but through investment trusts and ETF's etc where I can get in and out when I want, get paid a dividend and where there isn't some local with his/her snout in the trough to rip me off.

[LennyW]

On a technical point, when a foreigner buys property in Thailand, they need to verify that the money has come from outside.

This only applies to the purchase of foriegner allocation condo's - nothing else.

[PattayaParent]

Either way, the real estate market is crashing, especially the market for new and used houses.

OK, so that's new houses and old houses.... what other types are there on the market?

I can see where the condo market has a bit of blood in it. After all, that is the only way that foreign ownership is legally guaranteed here. All other arrangements to 'own' a house or land in Thailand as an individual foreigner are just too risky. Having said that, some people, myself included, wouldn't live in a condo even in a country where we could legally own the whole airconditioned box; just not my first choice. Those 'investors' loudly proclaiming that renters are envious of their ability to squander their money in a sh!thole buy what they want is as puerile as the comment about 'regret and lack of self worth'. How about the concept of ordinary people being misled by banks, governments, media and ultimately the realtors that it's possible for anyone to buy whatever house they chose... RIGHT NOW!? Regardless of their credit rating, income or even employment?

What's that old chestnut about not 'investing' any more than you can afford to lose? At the end of the day, there's no pockets in a shroud.

But some people don't buy property as an investment, they buy a home.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Either way, the real estate market is crashing, especially the market for new and used houses.

OK, so that's new houses and old houses.... what other types are there on the market?

I can see where the condo market has a bit of blood in it. After all, that is the only way that foreign ownership is legally guaranteed here. All other arrangements to 'own' a house or land in Thailand as an individual foreigner are just too risky. Having said that, some people, myself included, wouldn't live in a condo even in a country where we could legally own the whole airconditioned box; just not my first choice. Those 'investors' loudly proclaiming that renters are envious of their ability to squander their money in a sh!thole buy what they want is as puerile as the comment about 'regret and lack of self worth'. How about the concept of ordinary people being misled by banks, governments, media and ultimately the realtors that it's possible for anyone to buy whatever house they chose... RIGHT NOW!? Regardless of their credit rating, income or even employment?

What's that old chestnut about not 'investing' any more than you can afford to lose? At the end of the day, there's no pockets in a shroud.

The word "especially" was used to contrast houses with condos. You want to know what other types of houses are on the market other than new and used houses? Maybe you should post that information I agree that the condo market does have something left, mainly the ocean-front units. People who are renting, I think, are smart given the current situation and what appears to be a real estate disaster in the making. The Russians are not coming in droves. Some are buying many units simply as investments (probably to wash something that is dirty). But they too will lose along with the other suckers who are clinging to a dream of a new-world Pattaya-Jomtien where the streets are paved with gold and all of the expats drive expensive cars and have bank accounts in Switzerland The dream-spinners have had ten years to make the dream a reality. Some have made money. But way too many projects have gone under and the country has drifted into a sort of political chaos. The dream is not going to surface.

Edited June 5, 2011 by Awohalitsiktoli

[rocketmanbkk]

My guess is the market is like a one way valve. Thais and falangs tend to buy new property from the developer and after a small window of opportunity to flip (probably before completion) the property is then part of the resale market. Once that happens it is stuck and will probably never ever find a buyer

What a complete load of rubbish. 'It will probably never find a buyer'. That's some statement!!!

I take it from your ridiculous assumption that you have never purchased property and probably cannot afford to.

I know from personal experience that if something is priced corectly it will sell. I have bought and sold land and property in both Pattaya and Udon and as long as you are not greedy, buy at the right price and sell at an attractive price it will ALWAYS sell. It's simple, I have said before, if you want to compete with the numerous properties on the market for silly prices you are just going to sit there and have a long wait. If you price at below what the property/land may be worth you will sell it, everywhere in the world people will buy property at below market value.

I now have a house in Pattaya and have just sold my last plot of land in Udon which was on the market less than 8 weeks. I am happy with the price I acheived, lower than comparable plots but I wanted to get it sold, the buyer has had a little deal and I am happy, all are happy. If I sold my house in Pattaya I'd make sure that it was at a lower price than comparable properties and if I was was offered a price lower than that which I was happy with from a serious buyer than again no problems for me. For me it's about being happy with what I receive. I'd never sell atr a loss but I purchased in 2003/4 and built in 2008 so the money I have made on selling means that I would have to give my Pattaya house way to make a loss.

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way a millionaire with money to speculate but I have been lucky and my Pattaya house is 3 beds with a pool so not a castle but grat forrme as an investment. If I was made an offer I would make a decision and be happy with it.

My mate whp purchased acondo behind foodland wants to sell by purchased at 4 million. I'd say he will need to take a big hit, if he is hapy to do that and get ot sold then again, it's his choice.

Saying people who purchased properties can never sell them is a rather stupid thing to say!

Before I am asked, the land/houses were purchased in the mother in laws name!

On a technical point, when a foreigner buys property in Thailand, they need to verify that the money has come from outside. So if the price is 5 million baht you need to show that 5 million has come from outside? Then, when it comes to selling you can take that 5 million out again? But two things can happen, the sale price can be higher or it can be lower. If it is lower then you can take that money out again. But if it is higher you can still only take out 5 million? is that how it works?

Anyway, I would have various concerns about "investing" in property in Thailand. One concern would be my ability to get money out of the country again. Others would be the various transaction costs such as business tax, stamp duty, legal fees etc etc. Others would be the costs of maintaining the property. As a "falang" we are always sitting ducks in Thailand, "locals" seem to regard cheating of and theft from falang as their right and I would think getting work done, supervising it, dealing with disputes etc would be very frustrating and potentially far more expensive than it should be. And with condos there is always the risk of corrupt management committees (with their snouts in the trough, treating falang owners as their ATM).

But the primary issue is that there is virtually zero transaction volume in the resale market. If judging potential profits by asking prices then the market looks very healthy, but if judging by the small number of available transacted price points, it looks like a market that "investors" often lose in. I made an offer on a condo and got something like 40% off the asking price before I backed out as it still wasn't low enough. The owner would probably have reduced the offer further but I had changed my mind by then.

My guess is the market is like a one way valve. Thais and falangs tend to buy new property from the developer and after a small window of opportunity to flip (probably before completion) the property is then part of the resale market. Once that happens it is stuck and will probably never ever find a buyer.

But even the chance of flipping low now what are you left with, the choice to accept a very low price if you need to sell or holding the property forever in the hope that prices will surge so massively that a even a "50% discount vs asking price" is still higher than you paid?

No, on balance I think buying property in Thailand is very risky. I am invested in Thailand, but through investment trusts and ETF's etc where I can get in and out when I want, get paid a dividend and where there isn't some local with his/her snout in the trough to rip me off.

[morphic]

"What a complete load of rubbish. 'It will probably never find a buyer'. That's some statement!!!

I take it from your ridiculous assumption that you have never purchased property and probably cannot afford to."

I can assure you I can afford to buy a property in Pattaya, in fact I probably have the cash to buy your house a hundred times over. But you are right that I have never bought a property, although I have bought REITS, including in Asia.

Obviously there are exceptions, these are the genuine sellers who are realistic and willing to sell a long way below general asking prices. For the others, no hope and I stick by my statement (the one you said was a complete load of rubbish). But you should read my whole post, not just pick the one bit you happened to disagree with.

I not only stick by my statement but after reading your post I think you actually agree with me. I am saying only genuine sellers can sell and no where near general asking prices. You seem to be saying exactly the same. If you bought in 2003 then maybe prices were low enough to now be able to sell at a profit. But anyone who bought later than that would have no chance unless they managed to have found a fantastic bargain, probably because of a desperate seller in need of instant cash.

For all the rest it is just like a one way valve, especially those buying new property, assuming they don't immediately flip it. Newer property (condos) seem even more expensive than the ridiculously expensive resale properties. New property will soon become old property. If current resale properties are rarely transacting because of unrealistic sellers then what hope will anybody have of selling what was new property, at a profit? None, absolutely none. They will either have to keep their property forever or accept a loss.

By the way, your point about buying in your mother in law's name is just an example of a risk I think is mad to take. I read of too many cases of falangs getting ripped off in this way. Its a big risk, a very big risk.

No, the only people making money now from Pattaya property are the developers (selling all that crap for lots of money, they must be getting filthy rich), the real estate agents who earn commission etc on new developments, have inside knowledge and can get developer discounts and flip. Otherwise its people willing to take big risks (like buying in their mother in law's name) or just buying well below market due to finding a desperate seller. Anybody else paying current asking prices either resale or new are going to lose.

[NanLaew]

Either way, the real estate market is crashing, especially the market for new and used houses.

OK, so that's new houses and old houses.... what other types are there on the market?

I can see where the condo market has a bit of blood in it. After all, that is the only way that foreign ownership is legally guaranteed here. All other arrangements to 'own' a house or land in Thailand as an individual foreigner are just too risky. Having said that, some people, myself included, wouldn't live in a condo even in a country where we could legally own the whole airconditioned box; just not my first choice. Those 'investors' loudly proclaiming that renters are envious of their ability to squander their money in a sh!thole buy what they want is as puerile as the comment about 'regret and lack of self worth'. How about the concept of ordinary people being misled by banks, governments, media and ultimately the realtors that it's possible for anyone to buy whatever house they chose... RIGHT NOW!? Regardless of their credit rating, income or even employment?

What's that old chestnut about not 'investing' any more than you can afford to lose? At the end of the day, there's no pockets in a shroud.

But some people don't buy property as an investment, they buy a home.

No argument there.... did you miss the quotation marks I placed around 'investors' and that I specifically didn't mention home buyers?

Investors tend to carp on and on about their investments whereas the home buyers tend to quietly enjoy their new homes. Renters can be either canny 'investors', reluctant home buyers or international gypsy's like me.

[smedly]

people come here forgetting they are in a 3rd world country where everything and I mean everything should be at least 50% of the price you pay at home.

A totally ridiculous assertion

Why should gold be less expensive here?

Why should your iPad (or all imported devices/products) be less expensive here?

And more: looks like you don't know what the 3rd World is (or was)

and that Thailand is indexed as a developing country...

Ridiculous!

lol you obviously are an owner, gold is a global currency - a house in thailand is not, if you had a clue you would realise that materials and labor costs here are much much lower than in the west, the building/construction cost is what should dictate the market value after an amount of profit is added for the developer, markup here is extreme because realestate agents are asking way above the building cost - it is highly inflated and idiots pay because they have no clue and just believe what they see in a shop window..............................open your eyes

[joker7]

I think property prices are relatively cheap here than say UK or Australia. If your buying property with the intention of selling it in 3-5 years then yes it is a waste of money. However if your retired or are thinking of living somewhere for 15+ years I fail to understand why you would not want to buy a property with which your happy with.

Also depends on your available income or savings at the time. 7 million baht to a lot of people isnt really that much money when compared to your lifetime earnings.

[Pattaya46]

lol you obviously are an owner

Yes I am the happy own of my condo = my home (see my post here)

if you had a clue you would realise that materials and labor costs here are much much lower than in the west, the building/construction cost is what should dictate the market value after an amount of profit is added for the developer...//...open your eyes

Maybe you should open yours : Yes cost of construction is less, and thats why you find many new condo for sell at less that 1 million baht (800k, 700k, ...). Do you find apartment at 20 k€ or 30 k$ in your country?

Houses price is very far for the construction price just because of the price of the land she is built on. Look at land prices between Pattaya and Jomtien: crazy prices... because of a still important demand for lands, and because of speculation. But this market law is everywhere, not only Pattaya or Thailand.

[PattayaParent]

I think property prices are relatively cheap here than say UK or Australia. If your buying property with the intention of selling it in 3-5 years then yes it is a waste of money. However if your retired or are thinking of living somewhere for 15+ years I fail to understand why you would not want to buy a property with which your happy with.

Also depends on your available income or savings at the time. 7 million baht to a lot of people isnt really that much money when compared to your lifetime earnings.

Lifetime earning have got nothing to do with it, it's your lieftime savings you want to compare it to.

If that is 4 million Baht (GBP80k which I believe is the national average for UK) then 7 mill is out of your price range.

[londoedan]

This thread makes an interesting read. The should I buy / rent dilemma is pertinent to me as I have decided to settle here after numerous visits and now a year, more or less full-time, here.

I pay rent of 13K per month for a 55 sq.m., one bedroom condo in Central Pattaya. This building is exactly where I want to be; between Beach and 2nd Rd and a stones throw from The Avenue complex. I guess a similar condo would cost approx 3 million THB according to some of the adverts in the local newspapers, perhaps a bit more.

Keeping things simple (i.e. not allowing for rent inflation or appreciation of a purchased condo or long-term currency fluctuations), that capital cost equates to almost 20 years of renting ! I think I would be mad to buy at the moment, or in the near future.

Simon

[Naam]

people come here forgetting they are in a 3rd world country where everything and I mean everything should be at least 50% of the price you pay at home.

A totally ridiculous assertion

Why should gold be less expensive here?

Why should your iPad (or all imported devices/products) be less expensive here?

And more: looks like you don't know what the 3rd World is (or was)

and that Thailand is indexed as a developing country...

Ridiculous!

lol you obviously are an owner, gold is a global currency - a house in thailand is not, if you had a clue you would realise that materials and labor costs here are much much lower than in the west, the building/construction cost is what should dictate the market value after an amount of profit is added for the developer, markup here is extreme because realestate agents are asking way above the building cost - it is highly inflated and idiots pay because they have no clue and just believe what they see in a shop window..............................open your eyes

idiots pay because they have no clue...

idiots pay because they have the money. "intelligent" poor boys can't pay because they have empty pockets

Edited June 6, 2011 by Naam

[morphic]

This thread makes an interesting read. The should I buy / rent dilemma is pertinent to me as I have decided to settle here after numerous visits and now a year, more or less full-time, here.

I pay rent of 13K per month for a 55 sq.m., one bedroom condo in Central Pattaya. This building is exactly where I want to be; between Beach and 2nd Rd and a stones throw from The Avenue complex. I guess a similar condo would cost approx 3 million THB according to some of the adverts in the local newspapers, perhaps a bit more.

Keeping things simple (i.e. not allowing for rent inflation or appreciation of a purchased condo or long-term currency fluctuations), that capital cost equates to almost 20 years of renting ! I think I would be mad to buy at the moment, or in the near future.

Simon

Its worse than that:

By the time you've factored in the transfer tax, business tax, yearly property taxes, condo maintenance fees, extra costs of fixing things that owners need to pay for, renovations blah blah blah you would probably find its more like 30 years of rent to breakeven.

The only way it makes sense to buy is if you believe in significant capital appreciation.

[wpcoe]

I bought a modest 2-bedroom Jomtien condo 6.5 years ago (late 2004) for B1.3m primarily as a residence but also as a potential investment.

I spent about another ~B500,000 on renovations. Yeah, probably paid on the high side, but got things done to my satisfaction using a western contractor and satisfied my western sensibilties: installed a kitchen where there was none, combined two small Thai bathrooms into a large western-type one, moved doorways, concealed electrical wiring in the walls, accommodated a washer and dryer, new ceramic tiles floors, etc. The only real regret was that I didn't rewire the place totally and run a ground/earth wire down.

About a month ago I sold it for B1.8m. So, on appearances a "wash."

But, if I had paid B13,000/month rent for 6.5 years, what would I have to show for that ~B1m now? Would the quality of a place at that price have met my standards like my custom-altered condo?

The B1.8m I paid in 2004-2005 was about US$50,000. B1.8m today is about US$60,000, thanks to US$ drop. If I were to pull up stakes and return to farangland, that's a consideration.

There are many ways of looking at a given situation, even financial transactions, and deciding whether they are/were worthwhile. Value is subjective, not objective, and I have few regrets with my past 6.5 years of condo ownership in Thailand. Even though about a year after I bought it, there were (inferior, IMHO) units in my building selling for between B2.5m and 3.0m, and I had to compromise and sell it at B1.8m several years later.

It's somewhat about perspective, and a lot about luck.

[Orac]

This thread makes an interesting read. The should I buy / rent dilemma is pertinent to me as I have decided to settle here after numerous visits and now a year, more or less full-time, here.

I pay rent of 13K per month for a 55 sq.m., one bedroom condo in Central Pattaya. This building is exactly where I want to be; between Beach and 2nd Rd and a stones throw from The Avenue complex. I guess a similar condo would cost approx 3 million THB according to some of the adverts in the local newspapers, perhaps a bit more.

Keeping things simple (i.e. not allowing for rent inflation or appreciation of a purchased condo or long-term currency fluctuations), that capital cost equates to almost 20 years of renting ! I think I would be mad to buy at the moment, or in the near future.

Simon

Its worse than that:

By the time you've factored in the transfer tax, business tax, yearly property taxes, condo maintenance fees, extra costs of fixing things that owners need to pay for, renovations blah blah blah you would probably find its more like 30 years of rent to breakeven.

The only way it makes sense to buy is if you believe in significant capital appreciation.

the problem with this is that you have not factored in any rental increases over the 20/30 years. Also, provided your property has some residual value left after the 20/30 years it will not be a break even point since the renter has nothing.

[morphic]

This thread makes an interesting read. The should I buy / rent dilemma is pertinent to me as I have decided to settle here after numerous visits and now a year, more or less full-time, here.

I pay rent of 13K per month for a 55 sq.m., one bedroom condo in Central Pattaya. This building is exactly where I want to be; between Beach and 2nd Rd and a stones throw from The Avenue complex. I guess a similar condo would cost approx 3 million THB according to some of the adverts in the local newspapers, perhaps a bit more.

Keeping things simple (i.e. not allowing for rent inflation or appreciation of a purchased condo or long-term currency fluctuations), that capital cost equates to almost 20 years of renting ! I think I would be mad to buy at the moment, or in the near future.

Simon

Its worse than that:

By the time you've factored in the transfer tax, business tax, yearly property taxes, condo maintenance fees, extra costs of fixing things that owners need to pay for, renovations blah blah blah you would probably find its more like 30 years of rent to breakeven.

The only way it makes sense to buy is if you believe in significant capital appreciation.

the problem with this is that you have not factored in any rental increases over the 20/30 years. Also, provided your property has some residual value left after the 20/30 years it will not be a break even point since the renter has nothing.

Umm, a breakeven point is the numbers of years of renting it out a landlord would need in order to breakeven on his investment. In this case the answer is 30. You seem to have some problem with making mathematically watertight and properly defined statements. or is it that you don't understand them?

And as I and the poster I responded to said, we are excluding rental inflation and capital appreciation. But we are also excluding the lost opportunity cost of using capital to make the purchase. There is no reason to think the appreciation on the capital invested elsewhere would not be more this condo. It could be far, far more and far safer.

[morphic]

I bought a modest 2-bedroom Jomtien condo 6.5 years ago (late 2004) for B1.3m primarily as a residence but also as a potential investment.

I spent about another ~B500,000 on renovations. Yeah, probably paid on the high side, but got things done to my satisfaction using a western contractor and satisfied my western sensibilties: installed a kitchen where there was none, combined two small Thai bathrooms into a large western-type one, moved doorways, concealed electrical wiring in the walls, accommodated a washer and dryer, new ceramic tiles floors, etc. The only real regret was that I didn't rewire the place totally and run a ground/earth wire down.

About a month ago I sold it for B1.8m. So, on appearances a "wash."

But, if I had paid B13,000/month rent for 6.5 years, what would I have to show for that ~B1m now? Would the quality of a place at that price have met my standards like my custom-altered condo?

The B1.8m I paid in 2004-2005 was about US$50,000. B1.8m today is about US$60,000, thanks to US$ drop. If I were to pull up stakes and return to farangland, that's a consideration.

There are many ways of looking at a given situation, even financial transactions, and deciding whether they are/were worthwhile. Value is subjective, not objective, and I have few regrets with my past 6.5 years of condo ownership in Thailand. Even though about a year after I bought it, there were (inferior, IMHO) units in my building selling for between B2.5m and 3.0m, and I had to compromise and sell it at B1.8m several years later.

It's somewhat about perspective, and a lot about luck.

Who said your condo would be rented for 13,000? That was the other guy. On average since 2004 it might have been half that.

But well done, excluding transaction costs you managed to breakeven on your property, you must have found a sucker to buy it from you but that is exactly what the Pattaya property market is about...finding suckers to sell to.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Rimmer
Unnecessary and argumentative comment

[4.real]

How much Baht did you lose on the sale of your place?

That is not the point,money means nothing when getting older and I am sure my sentiments are shared by others who own property here in Pattaya.Well done I say to those who made the commitment

I bought 6 years ago.Very happy and my wife will get the property when I am gone.

When I look back I shudder at the horrors of renting with no guarantee of permanence.

Money does not come into the factor although I am not 'rich farang'.

Guarantee of permanence = buying a home in the wife's name? I don't think so How long have you been in Thailand?

Long enough to know better than to even think about marrying some sweet little thing working in a bar.

[wpcoe]

I bought a modest 2-bedroom Jomtien condo 6.5 years ago (late 2004) for B1.3m primarily as a residence but also as a potential investment.

I spent about another ~B500,000 on renovations. Yeah, probably paid on the high side, but got things done to my satisfaction using a western contractor and satisfied my western sensibilties: installed a kitchen where there was none, combined two small Thai bathrooms into a large western-type one, moved doorways, concealed electrical wiring in the walls, accommodated a washer and dryer, new ceramic tiles floors, etc. The only real regret was that I didn't rewire the place totally and run a ground/earth wire down.

About a month ago I sold it for B1.8m. So, on appearances a "wash."

But, if I had paid B13,000/month rent for 6.5 years, what would I have to show for that ~B1m now? Would the quality of a place at that price have met my standards like my custom-altered condo?

The B1.8m I paid in 2004-2005 was about US$50,000. B1.8m today is about US$60,000, thanks to US$ drop. If I were to pull up stakes and return to farangland, that's a consideration.

There are many ways of looking at a given situation, even financial transactions, and deciding whether they are/were worthwhile. Value is subjective, not objective, and I have few regrets with my past 6.5 years of condo ownership in Thailand. Even though about a year after I bought it, there were (inferior, IMHO) units in my building selling for between B2.5m and 3.0m, and I had to compromise and sell it at B1.8m several years later.

It's somewhat about perspective, and a lot about luck.

Who said your condo would be rented for 13,000? That was the other guy. On average since 2004 it might have been half that.

But well done, excluding transaction costs you managed to breakeven on your property, you must have found a sucker to buy it from you but that is exactly what the Pattaya property market is about...finding suckers to sell to.

*I* said the condo would/could be rented for B13,000. That's what similar units in my building rented for during the six years I lived there. Were you in the same building observing the same situation? I'm actually surprised you would have found renovated two-bedroom condos in Jomtien renting for B6,500/month, but don't doubt your keen powers of observation.

Edited June 7, 2011 by Rimmer
Inflammatory comment to an edited flame

[Rimmer]

Tired of editing inflammatory posts trying to keep the peace, if you can't be nice then your entire post will get itself deleted.

[smedly]

I find it interesting that many here want to resort to attempts at personal insults to those that are trying to give good advice - advice mostly to those that haven't bought yet as those that have most likely will loose a boat load of money from their purchse.

Oh and BTW I have not declared whether I own a property or properties here in pattaya so making assumptions about peoples means is RIDICULOUS lol

The property price here is artificially inflated by a network of realestate companies of which quite a few are run by falangs, just because you see an ask price on a property - it does not mean that the property is correctly priced, agents inflate prices by as much as 100% and that was disclosed to me by an agent who took great pleasure in telling me that you get quite a number of idiots who just part with their money so easy,

[joker7]

In the UK you would expect to pay on average 1000 pounds a square meter for building costs. This is just to build a property not taking into account the price of the land.

So if your property size is 200m2 (size of house)regardless of size of land then it would cost roughly 200k pounds to build in the UK.

Factor that in and do your sums, ask the developer what the building will be made from and to what specs, ie will it be European design and standards. Will he be importing material, marble floors/tiling etc. This will no doubt add to the cost.

Factor in the land, then you have what would be a fair price.

On another note I do believe there a lot of bargains to be had. Falang moves back to Uk needs to sell in 6 months - Thai girls husband dies and leaves her the house she sells the house for 4 million even though it was bought for 7 million - A lot of houses/condo's are forced by the gvnt to be sold within 1 year which encourages people to drop the price to ridiculous levels towards the end of the year.

Its not difficult to see why Pattaya has an unstable property market.