Thai Elite, Middle Class Cold To Unfavourable Poll Results

[Sao Jiang Mai]

To a point the OP is absolutely correct. I have meet many so called elites in Bangkok who would relish a coup should Puea Thai win. Conversely, I know numerous people here in Chiang Mai who have received very generous sums from politicians. My retired housekeeper today gleefully told me that her family in Phrao (CM) has netted about 800 baht so far and is looking forward to recieving much more money by election date. She, quite sensibly, will vote her own way, but not everyone will. Paid for votes are an absolute fact. And yes, many in the so called elite do look down on the poor, that is a fact too. But I think that the number of undecideds, which have emerged from each recent poll, is a good sign showing us that things are not as black and white as many would think.

[kirk0233]

His post regarding Al Gore's refusal to challenge George Bush's illegal activities further is a bad example of what makes and saves a democracy. A successful challenge would have been much better for US, the world and would send a strong warning that vote fraud would not be accepted, ever!

[Bakseedaa]

On the basis that the political parties have virtually no economic or political ethos, I am not sure that if you asked the elite or educated why they don't vote a certain way and why they don't support the result for a party that they don't like, I don't think would provide a very detailed answer.

I don't believe that the elite or the middle class is that much more politically savvy than other group in the country.

Indeed. They all go kicking and screaming if they don't get their own way. What happened to 'mai pen rai'

I think that statement applies to all groups, be they Lower class, Middle class or Elite.

If the Reds claim to be the voice of the Rural Poor, then its obvious the Lower classes go kicking and screaming if they dont get their own way

And if the journalist who wrote this article is correct, so do the Middle classes and 'Elite'

What did Winston Churchill say, You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all the people all of the time... Winnie had never been to Thailand... obviously..!!

[tim armstrong]

I think Mr. Aek is right as well. But I'm also concerned by some on tv who use terms like 'peasants' and 'rural poor'. Which century are you in? and where do you live? It seems that many tv readers come from countries where rural populations are very small and have little political clout compared to their urban counterparts, who vastly outnumber them.

In Thailand, like many Asian countries the vast majority of the population live in the country, and in Thailand's case produce most of the wealth. Problem is they don't own it, and are told they have no right to it. But for sure the tide is rapidly changing. By far the vast majority of red shirt supporters in my region are well educated,hard working, highly organised, middle class people in , business and agriculture who are very tired of inequality and corruption at all levels. They are not some red necked rabble with terrorist tendencies, often portrayed in the media

They do have a limited understanding of democratic processes, but for the first time in Thailand's history I think they can sense that the time for fundamental changes in the country has arrived. ..and they, are, the majority of Thai people.

[Buchholz]

Good grief... the President of the Institute of Democratisation Studies (IDS) is sometime Red Shirt and Banned From Politics former Thai Rak Thai Party Leader Chaturon Chaisaeng.

Forgot to also mention that Chaturon is a multi-millionaire.

[caribbeanman]

i think that Mr. Aek is absolutely right, and i also don't understand the yellows' "Vote no" campaign, what's the point of voting no? to kill democracy? i think that if pollycal situaton continues this way i better start to find another place to live in

So have you found the perfect place to live without turmoil and uphevel let us know we might join you

I considering two places: Singapore or Mallorca, what do you think?

[MILT]

The reaction of the Thai "haves" is mimiced by many in TVF: Denial, mixed with condescending hostility.

[Jirapa]

One wonders on what Aek bases his insight views of the middle Class and the Elite. And how does he define "middle class" or "elite"?

Idle blabber with anecdotal knowledge.

I disagree, I think he is spot on, the culture of inherited privilege in very much a function of Thai society. Stemming from its feudal past (which is barely 100 years ago) the elite or wealthy could basically do what they liked as they had all the power.

The peasant class had no rights at all. Even today, one only has to watch the interaction between the wealthy elite and poor country people to see how things have changed very little.

Rich people in Thailand think they can do what they like, can buy off policemen and politicians, get special treatment in the government bureaucratic system by paying bribes (and expecting it) and generally behaving as if they deserve these privileges.

It is their culture, this is the way things have always been and a short history of Western values will not change things here any time soon.

A very true reply. and like you say, nothing is going to change here any time soon. About the only hope Thailand has is if the young college educated kids, especially the ones educated outside the country start the change. It's going to be a long time before you see any major change.

What like Abhisit you mean? He went to Eton and Oxford, acted as a puppet in Thai politics for a while then had his strings cut. And wasn't he British? This is a problem Thais need to sort out and no amount of western education for the Thai elite is going to change the system as all that does is make them targets for the finger of blame.

[yeeowww]

On the basis that the political parties have virtually no economic or political ethos, I am not sure that if you asked the elite or educated why they don't vote a certain way and why they don't support the result for a party that they don't like, I don't think would provide a very detailed answer.

I don't believe that the elite or the middle class is that much more politically savvy than other group in the country.

Indeed. They all go kicking and screaming if they don't get their own way. What happened to 'mai pen rai'

You nailed it exactly...

Actions speak louder than words:

[whybother]

I think Mr. Aek is right as well. But I'm also concerned by some on tv who use terms like 'peasants' and 'rural poor'. Which century are you in? and where do you live? It seems that many tv readers come from countries where rural populations are very small and have little political clout compared to their urban counterparts, who vastly outnumber them.

In Thailand, like many Asian countries the vast majority of the population live in the country, and in Thailand's case produce most of the wealth. Problem is they don't own it, and are told they have no right to it. But for sure the tide is rapidly changing. By far the vast majority of red shirt supporters in my region are well educated,hard working, highly organised, middle class people in , business and agriculture who are very tired of inequality and corruption at all levels. They are not some red necked rabble with terrorist tendencies, often portrayed in the media

They do have a limited understanding of democratic processes, but for the first time in Thailand's history I think they can sense that the time for fundamental changes in the country has arrived. ..and they, are, the majority of Thai people.

Isn't Mr Aek (and other red shirts) talking about "the elite and middle class" compared to the "rural uneducated poor".

They're the ones trying to make out the issues as being about the "haves" and the "have nots", where as it's pretty obvious that this is all about different groups of "haves" fighting for power.

[otherstuff1957]

Right now many left-leaning intellectuals are in bed with the Redshirts because they view the situation as Right-Wing vs Left-Wing.

It will be interesting to see how their allegiances change if PT gets elected and succeeds in bringing back Thaksin and Thaksin and his people become more and more oppressive.

[Voltaire]

"A government for the people, of the people, by the people" ----Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States

[Spalpeen]

"......... then its obvious the Lower classes go kicking and screaming if they dont get their own way"

By 'don't get their own way' I take it you mean when they democratically elect a government only to see it repeatedly overthrown by military coups?

[aussiebebe]

Calling this a "lingering problem", the lecturer said the former should learn to "respect" the voice of the majority.

He's entitled to his opinion but I see how elections work - I've seen it for five years; my wife's family live just outside Bangkok and all got paid 300baht each to vote the right way in their local elections last month. Their rationale is; if they don't take the money, the local guy will just get to keep it. My wife said she voted for a different candidate but the one who paid everyone was elected anyway. Her grim response was that while he may have paid 200 million in bribes, he'll get double that back whilst in office; people just pay taxes and nothing ever improves, she said. With this level of blatant payment going on, no-one should feel compelled to respect anything. No Thai national does not know what's going on, everyone knows, thus Thailand has the political system it deserves.

What interests me is how Thailand can move beyond this; how can people report vote-buying if the police are powerless or unwilling to respond?

[whybother]

"......... then its obvious the Lower classes go kicking and screaming if they dont get their own way"

By 'don't get their own way' I take it you mean when they democratically elect a government only to see it repeatedly overthrown by military coups?

The last time a democratically elected government was overthrown by a coup was the Chatchai government in 1991 and before that it was the Democrats in 1976.

[MunterHunter]

"......... then its obvious the Lower classes go kicking and screaming if they dont get their own way"

By 'don't get their own way' I take it you mean when they democratically elect a government only to see it repeatedly overthrown by military coups?

If you are referring to Thaksin, he was a caretaker PM at the time, and was trying to make amendments to the constitution to allow him to remain that way instead of calling the election he was already late in calling.

But dont let the facts get in the way of a good troll post

What i actually mean by 'dont get their own way' is demanding that the PM at the time immediately step down and hold a snap-election. The funny thing was, they were promised an early election and turned it down saying it wasn't good enough. had they taken that option at the time they would have had a new government by now. Instead they decided to hold the city to ransom and then when the troops were deployed to remove them, proceeded to burn down as much of the city as they could.

Now they are saying if they dont get elected they will be back o nthe streets - yeah i class that as 'kicking and screaming if they dont get what they want' - maybe you have a different definition?

Reminds me of that little girl from yester-year "i will scweam and scweam until im sick!" - what program/advert was she from?

[whybother]

Reminds me of that little girl from yester-year "i will scweam and scweam until im sick!" - what program/advert was she from?

[exbelg]

whoever you vote for, you will be cheated as any person in politics is there for a short time and will make sure their pockets and the pockets of the people who bought their electorial campagne, will be filled, rapiddly and majorly

promises are made and they keep them, until the moment they are in power, than the real agenda commence

[hoaker]

Does anyone know what would happen if the majority voted NO? Re-election? the winning party sets up government?

[RKASA]

On the basis that the political parties have virtually no economic or political ethos, I am not sure that if you asked the elite or educated why they don't vote a certain way and why they don't support the result for a party that they don't like, I don't think would provide a very detailed answer.

I don't believe that the elite or the middle class is that much more politically savvy than other group in the country.

Indeed. They all go kicking and screaming if they don't get their own way. What happened to 'mai pen rai'

I think that statement applies to all groups, be they Lower class, Middle class or Elite.

If the Reds claim to be the voice of the Rural Poor, then its obvious the Lower classes go kicking and screaming if they dont get their own way

And if the journalist who wrote this article is correct, so do the Middle classes and 'Elite'

What did Winston Churchill say, You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all the people all of the time... Winnie had never been to Thailand... obviously..!!

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

Abraham Lincoln

,

(attributed)

16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

[SAffer]

On the basis that the political parties have virtually no economic or political ethos, I am not sure that if you asked the elite or educated why they don't vote a certain way and why they don't support the result for a party that they don't like, I don't think would provide a very detailed answer.

I don't believe that the elite or the middle class is that much more politically savvy than other group in the country.

Indeed. They all go kicking and screaming if they don't get their own way. What happened to 'mai pen rai'

I think that statement applies to all groups, be they Lower class, Middle class or Elite.

If the Reds claim to be the voice of the Rural Poor, then its obvious the Lower classes go kicking and screaming if they dont get their own way

And if the journalist who wrote this article is correct, so do the Middle classes and 'Elite'

What did Winston Churchill say, You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all the people all of the time... Winnie had never been to Thailand... obviously..!!

And here I thought it was Robert Nesta Marley who said that... my ignorance is eroding, thanks to TV

[Bagwan]

What did Winston Churchill say, You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all the people all of the time... Winnie had never been to Thailand... obviously..!!

I think that you will find this homily is attributed to Abe Lincoln. One thing that Winston did say was 'Jaw, jaw, is better than War, war." The Thai populace might keep that truism in mind.

[SAffer]

What did Winston Churchill say, You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all the people all of the time... Winnie had never been to Thailand... obviously..!!

I think that you will find this homily is attributed to Abe Lincoln. One thing that Winston did say was 'Jaw, jaw, is better than War, war." The Thai populace might keep that truism in mind.

just checked my i-pod, definately Bob Marley

[hoaker]

Does anyone know what would happen if the majority voted NO? Re-election? the winning party sets up government?

[MunterHunter]

Does anyone know what would happen if the majority voted NO? Re-election? the winning party sets up government?

Cant really see it making a difference, as long as the MP seats got enough votes for someone to win them, parliament will progress as usual.

Its kinda a moot point anyway, whilst some people will vote No, the majority of people (i believe) have an opinion on who they want in the next government

[ballpoint]

What did Winston Churchill say, You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all the people all of the time... Winnie had never been to Thailand... obviously..!!

I think that you will find this homily is attributed to Abe Lincoln. One thing that Winston did say was 'Jaw, jaw, is better than War, war." The Thai populace might keep that truism in mind.

just checked my i-pod, definately Bob Marley

Robert Nesta Marley, O.M. actually said "you can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all of the time" He also had some pertinent advice for Yingluck "No, woman, no cry"

[whybother]

Does anyone know what would happen if the majority voted NO? Re-election? the winning party sets up government?

From what I understand, if there is only one candidate, then s/he has to get more than 20% of the vote.

Given that all electorates have more than one candidate, then that shouldn't apply.

Given that voting is compulsory, a No Vote is like not turning up.

[tlansford]

One wonders on what Aek bases his insight views of the middle Class and the Elite. And how does he define "middle class" or "elite"?

Idle blabber with anecdotal knowledge.

I disagree, I think he is spot on, the culture of inherited privilege in very much a function of Thai society. Stemming from its feudal past (which is barely 100 years ago) the elite or wealthy could basically do what they liked as they had all the power.

The peasant class had no rights at all. Even today, one only has to watch the interaction between the wealthy elite and poor country people to see how things have changed very little.

Rich people in Thailand think they can do what they like, can buy off policemen and politicians, get special treatment in the government bureaucratic system by paying bribes (and expecting it) and generally behaving as if they deserve these privileges.

It is their culture, this is the way things have always been and a short history of Western values will not change things here any time soon.

Agree with your view on Thailand's history.

And finally, the writer's point, that Thailand should accept the election results and work on building solid democratic processes, is a point well made here.

[ratcatcher]

On the basis that the political parties have virtually no economic or political ethos, I am not sure that if you asked the elite or educated why they don't vote a certain way and why they don't support the result for a party that they don't like, I don't think would provide a very detailed answer.

I don't believe that the elite or the middle class is that much more politically savvy than other group in the country.

Indeed. They all go kicking and screaming if they don't get their own way. What happened to 'mai pen rai'

I think that statement applies to all groups, be they Lower class, Middle class or Elite.

If the Reds claim to be the voice of the Rural Poor, then its obvious the Lower classes go kicking and screaming if they dont get their own way

And if the journalist who wrote this article is correct, so do the Middle classes and 'Elite'

What did Winston Churchill say, You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all the people all of the time... Winnie had never been to Thailand... obviously..!!

I think that was probably honest Abe of the U.S.of A. :jap:

[zydeco]

Sure, Thailand needs to be more like America and that will really make things better! Hah! The expert on American Studies needs to go back and study some more. The US is coming apart at the seams. Half of the country is overrun by illegals and the other half has seen their jobs shipped to China (a few to Thailand, too!). The entire political system in America has lost its legitimacy and is just waiting for somebody to light a match to it.