We Don't Need Another Round Of Illegal Killings; War On Drugs

[jayjayjayjay]

This is a perfect example of the daily "anti-Thaksin" articles by The Nation. Many readers are getting sick of it and are switching to "the other newspaper". I wonder when those in charge of The Nation will notice it.

Careful what you say on this forum. The Nation has more than ears here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SteeleJoe]

I remember clearly at the time when Thaksin was executing drug dealer he had the support of the majority of the Thai's. One should take an informal poll with your thai friends and I think you will find they want the death penalty back for drug dealers.

The moral debate is a mute point. Thai society has the right to take whatever action they want when dealing with drug dealers, just as Singapore has.

1) There is still in place a provision for the death penalty for conviction of trafficking. That never went away.

2) Because a majority of people want something neither makes it right or a good idea. Or to their benefit. Unless you are suggesting that the Thais are allowed to vote in a referendum to legally empower the police to summarily execute unconvicted drug suspects, the fact that the Drug War had support (arguably based on ignorance and mis-perception) isn't relevant.

3) Thai "Society" wasn't taking action. The government and police were. Despite the popular but simplistic moral relativism behind your justification, they do not "have the right to do so" (ie extra-judicial killing) -- not under Thai law or any other law (or moral code).

4) Look up "due process" and "Rule of Law".

[Johpa]

In 2003 the war on drugs and all those killings lead to two things:

1. The street price increased from 50 baht to 500 baht

2. Fat go-go dancers

In the more traditional areas around Chiang Mai such as where I maintain a home, Thaksin's draconian actions did lead to a very substantial decrease in the selling of drugs in the schools which then led to a substantial decrease in local crime including burglary, assaults, and domestic violence. Given the endemic corruption and the substantial influence of the drug cartels and their financial bankers in Bangkok, I doubt any other action would have led to the removal of the drugs from the schools. The number of deaths resulting from not acting, inaction, against the drug trade with such extreme prejudice would have been higher than the numbers killed. I do not condone Thaksin's actions, but my Thai neighbors, after years of pleading with authorities, were ecstatic that someone had finally acted to rid the schools of drugs and make a significant dent into the crime sprees that had been endemic in the rural areas the past several years following the switch of the drug cartels from heroin to meth.

[lungmi]

I remember clearly at the time when Thaksin was executing drug dealer he had the support of the majority of the Thai's. One should take an informal poll with your thai friends and I think you will find they want the death penalty back for drug dealers.

The moral debate is a mute point. Thai society has the right to take whatever action they want when dealing with drug dealers, just as Singapore has.

Yes, death penalty for Thaksin.

[pastitche]

<br />

Remember the bogus Yong Kha Crop Substitution Project in the Wa-controlled area that the Thaksin administration was suckered into giving Bt20 million seed money to while the rest of the world shunned it because they saw through it?<br /><br />For Thaksin, good relations with Burma were good for his family business. Remember the Bt4-billion loan the Thaksin administration made to the military government in Rangoon to purchase satellite services sold by Thaksin's family-owned communications businesses?

<br /><br />That's an affirmative for remembering both.<br /><br />That's but one part of the sad legacy of Thaksin's murderous War on Drugs. It wasn't even about restricting drug usage.<br /><br />.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Wonderful! For once we have a sensible debate on the approach to drug abuse and it is hijacked by you to make an attack on Thaksin. Everyone agrees that the extra-judical killings were wrong, so sit back and let other people talk about the topic and possible solutions without harping on about the past

[rubl]

This is a perfect example of the daily "anti-Thaksin" articles by The Nation. Many readers are getting sick of it and are switching to "the other newspaper". I wonder when those in charge of The Nation will notice it.

Those in charge of the Nation will probably notice the moment it's true that many readers switch to the other newspaper. Not before I assume :-)

[Buchholz]

<br />

Remember the bogus Yong Kha Crop Substitution Project in the Wa-controlled area that the Thaksin administration was suckered into giving Bt20 million seed money to while the rest of the world shunned it because they saw through it?<br /><br />For Thaksin, good relations with Burma were good for his family business. Remember the Bt4-billion loan the Thaksin administration made to the military government in Rangoon to purchase satellite services sold by Thaksin's family-owned communications businesses?

<br /><br />That's an affirmative for remembering both.<br /><br />That's but one part of the sad legacy of Thaksin's murderous War on Drugs. It wasn't even about restricting drug usage.<br /><br />.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Wonderful! For once we have a sensible debate on the approach to drug abuse and it is hijacked by you to make an attack on Thaksin. Everyone agrees that the extra-judical killings were wrong, so sit back and let other people talk about the topic and possible solutions without harping on about the past

Marvelous! Attack a poster for commenting on what THE OP brought up.

btw, it wasn't "hijacking the debate" as the only one that commented on my post was you.

btw (part II), there's been quite a few posts in some of the other multiple drug war threads that did NOT agree the killings were wrong

btw (part III), relax and discuss without attacking members.

[themockrat]

This is a perfect example of the daily "anti-Thaksin" articles by The Nation. Many readers are getting sick of it and are switching to "the other newspaper". I wonder when those in charge of The Nation will notice it.

Careful what you say on this forum. The Nation has more than ears here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's good then, maybe they can use their ears and listen to their potential readers. A newspaper should be unbiased, otherwise it's just a propaganda tool for one side.

[decosalo]

Thailand is winning war drugs!!! EUA lost this battle!!! I love thai!!!

[SteeleJoe]

It was the axis forces used amphetamines for the pilots to reach german towns...

A) It was used by infantry as much or more than pilots.

The Axis forces included, as the very foundation, Germany -- they didn't need help getting to German towns.

C) it was British and American pilots that flew to Germany and it wasn't that long a flight from the UK (where they were based) -- though they may have been used, pilots hardly required drugs to keep them awake (especially flying into the nightmare of anti-aircraft systems).

It's true that the Wermacht made good use of meta-amphetamines (previously developed by another Axis power, the Japanese) for a while but but began to largely limit their use not long after the start of the war.

Can't help you make any sense with the rest of your post(s).

[marinediscoking]

I remember clearly at the time when Thaksin was executing drug dealer he had the support of the majority of the Thai's. One should take an informal poll with your thai friends and I think you will find they want the death penalty back for drug dealers.

The moral debate is a mute point. Thai society has the right to take whatever action they want when dealing with drug dealers, just as Singapore has.

1) There is still in place a provision for the death penalty for conviction of trafficking. That never went away.

2) Because a majority of people want something neither makes it right or a good idea. Or to their benefit. Unless you are suggesting that the Thais are allowed to vote in a referendum to legally empower the police to summarily execute unconvicted drug suspects, the fact that the Drug War had support (arguably based on ignorance and mis-perception) isn't relevant.

3) Thai "Society" wasn't taking action. The government and police were. Despite the popular but simplistic moral relativism behind your justification, they do not "have the right to do so" (ie extra-judicial killing) -- not under Thai law or any other law (or moral code).

4) Look up "due process" and "Rule of Law".

Sounds like you mean your moral code. Thai's can elect leaders that support their ideas and priciples including laws that inforce the death of durg traffickers. Majority rules in an democracy.

Can you show evedence to the extra-judical killings and the summarily executions?

If there was proof they would have convicted Thaksin on this too.

Edited June 4, 2011 by marinediscoking

[Tokay]

Singapore seems to be doing OK, so do a lot of other Asian countries. Whatever they are doing seems to be working.

[craigt3365]

A series of flames and derogatory posts have been removed. Please keep it civil.

[Nisa]

What is your solution to the problem?

Who says that every problem has to have a solution?

North Korea claims that none of its people have aids. Does that mean the world should emulate N. Korea as a solution to the current aids problem?

Drug use is not going away any time in the foreseeable future. Nor is the need for politicians to latch onto issues such as drugs to act tough and create a John Wayne type image for the ignorant voters to look up to.

Bottom line is illegal drug use doesn't even come close to killing or harming people the way alcohol does. Might want to ask yourself why no politician runs on the platform of eradicating alcohol.

.

[NanaFoods]

Some serious lapses in logic in the post below...

If drugs are a social problem, why then does drug trafficking attract the death penalty?

While I do not want to see a repeat of the alleged extra judicial killings, this article misses the point that drugs ARE a serious problem in this country and that people want something done about it quickly. The perception of many Thais I have spoken to is that the the problem has been getting worse since the coup.

The author also ignores the fact that people sell drugs to make money - to profit from the misery and death of others. It is said by the locals in my village that it is now easier to buy drugs than to buy paracetamol. The villagers know who the local sellers are, but feel powerless to do anything about it because the local sellers are believed to be supplied by and receive protection from certain members of Thailand's Finest. Cold comfort for the family of the 16 year old local boy who died from drugs just weeks after finishing school last term. The drug dealers gave him nothing to live for.

--- "If drugs are a social problem, why then does drug trafficking attract the death penalty?"

Wha-wha-What? Laws or penalties have nothing to do with whether drugs are a social problem or not.

This is complete backwards "logic".

--- "The author also ignores the fact that people sell drugs to make money - to profit from the misery and death of others."

Car manufacturers sell their cars to make profits... and people die as a result. So car companies profit from the misery and deaths of others. Therefore, cars should be illegal and prohibited. This is your "logic".

As with alcohol, occasional drug use is a social issue, while addiction is a medical issue.

The reason street drug dealers are able make so much money is because drugs are illegal. Prohibition drives up prices, and hence is counterproductive. This causes addicts, who MUST have their dose due to addiction, to require more money to buy them, and if they cannot afford it, they may be forced (by addiction) to turn to theft. Since so much money is now involved, thanks to prohibition, a market for gangs is created. Al Capone made the bigtime during alcohol prohibition.

Prohibition also leads to varying qualities of drugs, which is why addicts sometimes cannot gauge their dosages accurately, which can lead to overdose. During alcohol prohibition, cases of methanol blindness and death due to alcohol (moonshine) consumption increased as well. Why cannot societies learn from history???

Addiction is a medical problem, just as alcoholism is. If drugs are regulated by the state, incidence of overdose will greatly decrease, as will related crime. See Portugal's example. Decriminalization or Legalization will eliminate profits for the drug gangs, putting them out of business, and allow addicts to seek help without stigmatization as their problem will be seen as it should be, a medical problem. Divert the "war" budget to clinics, and addicts can go to these clinics and get a controlled and safe dosage, get education, and be slowly weened off.

Intolerance and lack of understanding is what keeps the "drug war" ongoing.

[Nisa]

Singapore seems to be doing OK, so do a lot of other Asian countries. Whatever they are doing seems to be working.

There are plenty of drugs in Singapore .. especially in the club scene. However, Singapore does a lot of public drug eduction as well as offering treatment for addicts. Singapore's people are also more educated and their is considerably more financial opportunity as well as less poverty. Not to mention that Singapore has one of the highest per capita rates of execution in all the world.

Although I am generally against the death penalty, there is at least some logic to executing somebody who has murdered another person. But to execute somebody for selling weed??? Why not execute highway speeders as they are responsible for more deaths? Even a heroin or cocaine trafficker doesn't come close to having a hand in as many deaths as alcohol distributors.

[MILT]

Riding on the fear among the voters, party after party is declaring war on drugs and other evils in society, while one in particular has vowed to declare victory on its "war on drugs" within 12 months.

If you ever needed proof that politicians are liars who will say anything to get what they want, here you are.

"Drugs, like many other ills, are a social problem, not a criminal problem. Drug dealing and abuse stem from many factors. From peer pressure to lack of opportunities and unemployment, the very fact that people turn to illicit drugs is a testimony to the fact that they feel they have nothing to lose or that they don't have much to live for."

If drugs are a social problem, why then does drug trafficking attract the death penalty?

While I do not want to see a repeat of the alleged extra judicial killings, this article misses the point that drugs ARE a serious problem in this country and that people want something done about it quickly. The perception of many Thais I have spoken to is that the the problem has been getting worse since the coup.

The author also ignores the fact that people sell drugs to make money - to profit from the misery and death of others. It is said by the locals in my village that it is now easier to buy drugs than to buy paracetamol. The villagers know who the local sellers are, but feel powerless to do anything about it because the local sellers are believed to be supplied by and receive protection from certain members of Thailand's Finest. Cold comfort for the family of the 16 year old local boy who died from drugs just weeks after finishing school last term. The drug dealers gave him nothing to live for.

Drug dealing my friend is very different than doing drugs. One is a social problem and the other a criminal. Death penalty's and long prison terms do not deter drug dealing or abuse. I believe what the author is saying is that put a stop to people wanting to do drugs by offering better opportunities for their lives and the dealers will not have a market.

[geriatrickid]

A lot of red militants has been paid with yaba to fight for "democracy" in Bangkok last year.

Bullsh*t. You cannot back up your claim.

I can however bring to your attention that redshirt protestors who were arrested were usually tested for drug consumption. The motive was twofold; 1. It is not unusual for the police to drug test detainees and 2) The authorities were looking for drugs.

Redshirts that tested positive would have gone to jail. If any protestors had been caught with yaba, a very public display would have been made.There weren't any such arrests for drugs were there?

right. the arrested ones.

Which arrested ones. Names please. Thailand is the land of the pointing police officers. Please cite the newspapers where the photos were published or the arrests were published. Had any redshit been caught with drugs during the Bangkok protests, a media spectacle would have ensued. There was no such spectacle. . Do you wish to retract your false statement or do you wish to continue promoting a fabrication and a falsehood and to be treated accordingly?

[TAWP]

I remember clearly at the time when Thaksin was executing drug dealer he had the support of the majority of the Thai's. One should take an informal poll with your thai friends and I think you will find they want the death penalty back for drug dealers.

The moral debate is a mute point. Thai society has the right to take whatever action they want when dealing with drug dealers, just as Singapore has.

No, there was no referendum or laws enacted to allow for summary executions or extra judicial handling of dealers. So therefor they did indeed not have the right to do so. Not even under their own laws.

In addition, every time a nation, even with support of their own laws, do something stupid it is our right - ney obligation - to point out the errors of their ways.

[NanaFoods]

I remember clearly at the time when Thaksin was executing drug dealer he had the support of the majority of the Thai's. One should take an informal poll with your thai friends and I think you will find they want the death penalty back for drug dealers.

The moral debate is a mute point. Thai society has the right to take whatever action they want when dealing with drug dealers, just as Singapore has.

If morality is a moot point.... then who is anyone to pass judgment on drug dealers? In this context, they are merchants like any other, supplying demand coming from the populace. Or...In this context you propose, does morality being moot only apply to the police or "society"? Seems there is a serious disconnect in your reasoning here.

In your first paragraph above, if you replace Thaksin's name with a certain dictator in Europe during 1930's, and replace "drug dealers" with a certain ethnic group in that country, you will hopefully see the errors in your logic. I am sure a poll of relevant constituents at the time would yield the same result as you are proposing for Thailand. Does that make it moral...ah right, that's moot... OK, so... do they have the "right"?

[marinediscoking]

I remember clearly at the time when Thaksin was executing drug dealer he had the support of the majority of the Thai's. One should take an informal poll with your thai friends and I think you will find they want the death penalty back for drug dealers.

The moral debate is a mute point. Thai society has the right to take whatever action they want when dealing with drug dealers, just as Singapore has.

If morality is a moot point.... then who is anyone to pass judgment on drug dealers? In this context, they are merchants like any other, supplying demand coming from the populace. Or...In this context you propose, does morality being moot only apply to the police or "society"? Seems there is a serious disconnect in your reasoning here.

In your first paragraph above, if you replace Thaksin's name with a certain dictator in Europe during 1930's, and replace "drug dealers" with a certain ethnic group in that country, you will hopefully see the errors in your logic. I am sure a poll of relevant constituents at the time would yield the same result as you are proposing for Thailand. Does that make it moral...ah right, that's moot... OK, so... do they have the "right"?

I morally don't believe in the death penalty for any reason as I am pro-life christian.

However a sovereign democratic nation such as thailand has every right to enforce laws as it seems fit!!!

[paul43]

LATEST News

an Politicans son - the Son of Mr ประจักษ์ชัย ณ สงขลา got catches with Aphetamine pills and Base for produce capsels for reselling it,

the market price worth 200.000 thai bath and they expect the guy to trade this in high ammount nearly every second day and make

millions of bath every month.

also the wife of the son if this politican got catched last year with this drugs.

No wonder that abisith party dont do anything against the intense drug problem in bangkok and the

southern provinces - they even support the druck trading on the airport by low down the body checks and

the boarder controlls in some districts.

the war on drugs in the time of thaksin was a war against the same groupe of thiefs now get back in power and also

supported the yellow shirt demonstrations with money - demonstrations where we all know they use real guns, and not only

"wanna be" granade launchers are gas cannons shoot fireworks. we all should also remember that theese groupe create a whole

damage worth over 900 billion bath cause the tourism and export damage to the industry.

some people post here like "no war on drugs again" simply dont have, never had and indeed never will have

any knowlege about thai politics or the thai system at all.

your arguments are also "they burn bangkok" .........know what CW was insuranced and all is good, the damage was not even 10 % of the whole damage

got done to thai industry in the times of abisith thiefs blockaded the airport.

some people here realy have no freakin idea whats up in thailand

[SteeleJoe]

Sounds like you mean your moral code. Thai's can elect leaders that support their ideas and priciples including laws that inforce the death of durg traffickers. Majority rules in an democracy.

Can you show evedence to the extra-judical killings and the summarily executions?

If there was proof they would have convicted Thaksin on this too.

You are confused, I guess. No one is talking about the death penalty being handed down, in accordance with the law, by the courts.

Yes, my moral code would not allow a situation where people are murdered by police -- even guilty people let alone innocent ones. I realize not everyone's morals are in line with mine -- though I'm sure many are -- and I'll happily concede that that isn't a relevant component of my argument and withdraw any citation of "moral codes".

That leaves me with:

1) The police break the law when they employ extra-judicial killing.

2) Due process is an absolutely essential component of anything even slightly approximating a democracy and a just society. And by definition, it is part of the nation's law.

3) Rule of Law is even more essential in any effort to strive towards a a democratic and just society. And there's no better example of something that erodes rule of law, than police being allowed and encouraged to be judge, jury and executioner.

Thai's can elect leaders that support their ideas and priciples including laws that inforce the death of durg traffickers. Majority rules in an democracy.

Yes, they can. No one -- including me -- has suggested they can't. We aren't discussing the police enforcing law -- we are discussing them breaking it. As I said, if the populace voted for a change of law to allow the police to dispense with due process and execute offenders, THAT would be democracy (of a very perverse sort) and this argument would be a different one. But that has not happened.

Can you show evedence to the extra-judical killings and the summarily executions?

If you are actually questioning that such things have happened, then your argument makes no sense and you should be dismissing the article (and what I say) on the grounds that the "Drug War" has been radically mis-characterized and thus our objections to it are are rooted in a fallacy or lie. Is that what you think? That extra-judicial killing never took place or wasn't a matter of policy?

However a sovereign democratic nation such as thailand has every right to enforce laws as it seems fit!!!

Ummm...no, they don't. If they "enforce" the law by using unlawful means, then by definition they have no right to do that according to their own sovereign law.

EDIT TO ADD:

There are estimates of well over 2.000 extra-judicial killings by many arguably credible sources. There are substantial grounds to believe that some of them (perhaps very many but even a few is far too many) were entirely innocent of any crime.

Do disbelieve that?

Edited June 5, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[whybother]

LATEST News

an Politicans son - the Son of Mr ประจักษ์ชัย ณ สงขลา got catches with Aphetamine pills and Base for produce capsels for reselling it,

the market price worth 200.000 thai bath and they expect the guy to trade this in high ammount nearly every second day and make

millions of bath every month.

also the wife of the son if this politican got catched last year with this drugs.

Who is Mr ประจักษ์ชัย ณ สงขลา?

Is there a link to the news of an arrest in English language news?

No wonder that abisith party dont do anything against the intense drug problem in bangkok and the

southern provinces - they even support the druck trading on the airport by low down the body checks and

the boarder controlls in some districts.

the war on drugs in the time of thaksin was a war against the same groupe of thiefs now get back in power and also

supported the yellow shirt demonstrations with money - demonstrations where we all know they use real guns, and not only

"wanna be" granade launchers are gas cannons shoot fireworks. we all should also remember that theese groupe create a whole

damage worth over 900 billion bath cause the tourism and export damage to the industry.

some people post here like "no war on drugs again" simply dont have, never had and indeed never will have

any knowlege about thai politics or the thai system at all.

The drug dealers are now in power??? The drug dealers supported the yellow shirt protests??? The yellow shirt demonstrators used grenades???

your arguments are also "they burn bangkok" .........know what CW was insuranced and all is good, the damage was not even 10 % of the whole damage

got done to thai industry in the times of abisith thiefs blockaded the airport.

some people here realy have no freakin idea whats up in thailand

So it's OK to burn down buildings, steal cars, rob banks, maybe even injure other people, as long as they are insured??????

It's OK that the yellow shirts blockaded the airport, because the airport was insured, and all the passengers had travel insurance.

[SteeleJoe]

In August 2007, the military-installed government of General Surayud Chulanont appointed a special committee chaired by former Attorney General Khanit na Nakhon to investigate the extrajudicial killings that took place in 2003 as part of Thaksin’s “war on drugs,” but no action has ensued. After five months of inquiries, the committee only gave to the government statistical details about the number and nature of the murders. Its report – which has never been made public – said 2,819 people were killed in 2,559 murder cases between February and April in 2003. Of those killed, 1,370 were related to drug dealing, while 878 of them were not. Another 571 people were killed without apparent reason. Despite many promises to bring those responsible for the murders to justice, this committee has been unable to subject anyone to criminal liability.

Human Rights Watch

Honest question -- do you think this is false?

[whybother]

Who is Mr ประจักษ์ชัย ณ สงขลา?

Is there a link to the news of an arrest in English language news?

There is: http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/218993.html

BANGKOK, June 5 – Prachakchai na Songkhla, Democrat’s party-list candidate resigned as a party member on Sunday after his son was arrested with crystal methamphetamine, also known as 'ice,' on Saturday night, said party spokesman Buranat Samutarak said.

Prachakchai, the No 94 candidate on the party list, resigned as the party has a clear policy on suppressing illegal drugs, said Mr Buranat.

His resignation means he withdrew his candidacy for the election.

[sirchai]

Hear hear!!!

"No one knows what is really going on. If they ever did, it would make Watergate look like Alice in Wonderland." -- LESTER COLEMAN, ex U.S. Defence Intelligence Agency

"It is ironic, to say the least, that America's heroin plague is of its own making." -- FRED W. McCOY

I think we all should consider how everything here began. Drugs were always here and will always be. It's just the way to deal with it.

If Alcohol would suddenly be a forbidden substance categorized as a Class A drug, because it's killing so many and destroying so much, and people who still drink would get the death penalty, would this be okay?

Please see this link for any further information regarding drugs in SEA. Thanks CIA for your help. :jap:

http://www.american-...m/cia.death.htm

Please also see:

http://opioids.com/opium/history/index.html

Edited June 5, 2011 by sirchai

[SteeleJoe]

The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia is a valuable source for information on the subject it covers (and I personally feel more peope should read it). It has little or nothing to do with this subject.

And -- if we are going to go so far off-topic -- let's not forget that no matter how much responsibility the CIA bears, the Thais involved bear at least as much (so it's ridiculous to try and pretend that it's entirely the fault of the US while leaving out that it couldn't have happened here were it not for the way things were both allowed to be and made by the Thai society of that era) .

EDIT to ADD:

For that matter, there were more players than just Americans and Thais...

Edited June 5, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[sirchai]

I remember clearly at the time when Thaksin was executing drug dealer he had the support of the majority of the Thai's. One should take an informal poll with your thai friends and I think you will find they want the death penalty back for drug dealers.

The moral debate is a mute point. Thai society has the right to take whatever action they want when dealing with drug dealers, just as Singapore has.

You should be aware what really happened at this time when Thaksin declared his 90 days war on drugs.......

I had a Thai friend in Prachuap Khiri Khan district, near Bangsaphan Noi at this time. He had a good running resort and his neighbor also running a resort with less guests just brought a plastic bag full with Jaba to his house in the early morning hours.

Then he'd called the cops that my friend,who never used or sold any drugs would be a dealer. This arsehol_e received money for his phone call, the cops went to my friends' house, found the plastic bag and shot him.

Guess I don't have to mention that his photo after being killed by cops was showing a guy holding a gun in his hand. He never had one. The real dealers knew from the cops what will happen and they're all gone for 90 days, just to come back to make more money selling their shit.

Instead of 50 baht then 500 baht for one pill. Addicted girls had to stay 24 hours with a guy to buy one pill.

The lower northeast here is full with Jaba, available for everybody. Time to rethink.............:jap:

Edited June 5, 2011 by sirchai

[sirchai]

The Politics of Heroin in Southeast Asia is a valuable source for information on the subject it covers (and I personally feel more peope should read it). It has little or nothing to do with this subject.

And -- if we are going to go so far off-topic -- let's not forget that no matter how much responsibility the CIA bears, the Thais involved bear at least as much (so it's ridiculous to try and pretend that it's entirely the fault of the US while leaving out that it couldn't have happened here were it not for the way things were both allowed to be and made by the Thai society of that era) .

EDIT to ADD:

For that matter, there were more players than just Americans and Thais...

There are always more players than needed, but the rich Thais don't take Jaba, they snore coke. Jaba is a drug made from poor people for poor people.

Sorry for going obviously a little off topic. My point being is that the Thais were also using more of it because more and more GI's were addicted. The same shit happened in West Germany when addicted GI's started to find a way to bring it from Holland to Germany using Chinese connections.

For that matter, even when I feel very sorry, it's a fact that all shit from the States swapped to Europe, including crack. :jap:

Edited June 5, 2011 by sirchai