Make Or Break For Thaksin

[anterian]

there might be a simpler reason for Yingluck touring safe areas. She is a newcomer to the political arena, she needs to gain experience and confidence fast. Thus it is better to start with a responsive and sympathetic audience before moving on to areas where she will have to handle heckling and abuse, or worse.

Remember how shaken and frightened Abhisit was when his car was attacked, he fled and hid in the army barracks. What would be the effect of a similar attack on a young woman?

Hey come on think about it-you said"" she needs experience so she can get some from safe areas"" She needs more than a MONTH of experience to become a P.M. of a country and be on the world stage to converse with world issues.

Not take care of Thai farmers in Issan, it will not do a world leader any good at all if you know of little else.

Anyway confidence does not also come in a month. No matter who you are if your car is attacked you want cover, or you have a problem. Who knows she could become a super Thai leader but most get a gut feeling something is a bit dodgy about the set up. I will add personally she could well get enough votes, but shake my head for Thailand.

but the shake is not a nod.

I can only guess that you have never had to speak publicly to a large gathering. The first few times are daunting but it only takes a few such events to get into the swing of it. I am far from lacking in self confidence but the first time I addressed an audience of 2000 people I was very nervous, by the third time it was no problem. Public speaking skills and the ability to run a country are not the same thing, it just helps.

[rubl]

there might be a simpler reason for Yingluck touring safe areas. She is a newcomer to the political arena, she needs to gain experience and confidence fast. Thus it is better to start with a responsive and sympathetic audience before moving on to areas where she will have to handle heckling and abuse, or worse.

Remember how shaken and frightened Abhisit was when his car was attacked, he fled and hid in the army barracks. What would be the effect of a similar attack on a young woman?

I might accept the view that Ms. Yingluck should tour 'safe' areas first before progressing to other areas. Mind you she has been campaigning since about the 20th of May and in 24 days we'll have the elections. It's time she starts campaigning in other parts of the country. There may be a bit of heckling and abuse as k. Abhisit has encountered, but so far it has been minimal and no indication Ms. Yingluck will not be safe. Probably k. Abhisit will have a tougher job.

Remember the 12th of April 2009 when Thailand's prime minister narrowly escaped a savage attack and rioting erupted in Bangkok as protesters commandeered public buses and swarmed triumphantly over military vehicles in unchecked defiance after the government declared a state of emergency. I don't remember he was shaken and frightened and ran to the army. Of course he fled, you'd have done the same to save your life. Hid in the barracks? Hardly, more like using facilities. The type of violence PM Abhisit faced will not be something Ms. Yingluck will have to fear.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514676,00.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/13/world/main4938098.shtml

PS 'young woman', you mean the charming young Ms. Yingluck who turns 44 on the 21st this month ?

[Ricardo]

I can only guess that you have never had to speak publicly to a large gathering. The first few times are daunting but it only takes a few such events to get into the swing of it. I am far from lacking in self confidence but the first time I addressed an audience of 2000 people I was very nervous, by the third time it was no problem. Public speaking skills and the ability to run a country are not the same thing, it just helps.

I sometimes have to address meetings, from 50-200 people, and despite a 2-day public-speaking training-course 25 years ago, will never actually enjoy the experience. I admire anyone who can say that they enjoy it ! :jap:

But Ms Yingluck has surely addressed large-groups from time to time, as a top business-manager over her long career, looking after 20 million customers ? If not, then was her former business-experience really good enough, to prepare her for the top-level politics which she has now committed herself to ?

[rixalex]

Remember how shaken and frightened Abhisit was when his car was attacked, he fled and hid in the army barracks. What would be the effect of a similar attack on a young woman?

Have to say, i don't remember Abhisit being on camera looking shaken or frightened after the incident, although i imagine he may well have been - who wouldn't?

I get the impression that with that comment, and with using words like "fled" and "hid", that you wish to convey, albeit subtly, a suggestion of cowardice.

As for the "young" woman comment, i appreciate that as a 75 year old most of the population is younger than your good self, but 43 is usually considered to be middle-aged.

[anterian]

I can only guess that you have never had to speak publicly to a large gathering. The first few times are daunting but it only takes a few such events to get into the swing of it. I am far from lacking in self confidence but the first time I addressed an audience of 2000 people I was very nervous, by the third time it was no problem. Public speaking skills and the ability to run a country are not the same thing, it just helps.

I sometimes have to address meetings, from 50-200 people, and despite a 2-day public-speaking training-course 25 years ago, will never actually enjoy the experience. I admire anyone who can say that they enjoy it ! :jap:

But Ms Yingluck has surely addressed large-groups from time to time, as a top business-manager over her long career, looking after 20 million customers ? If not, then was her former business-experience really good enough, to prepare her for the top-level politics which she has now committed herself to ?

A large group of business people or employees is not really a fair comparison. It is usually a few hundred at most and mannerly in their behavior. Perhaps a better comparison might be an AGM with several thousand angry shareholders.

[anterian]

Remember how shaken and frightened Abhisit was when his car was attacked, he fled and hid in the army barracks. What would be the effect of a similar attack on a young woman?

Have to say, i don't remember Abhisit being on camera looking shaken or frightened after the incident, although i imagine he may well have been - who wouldn't?

I get the impression that with that comment, and with using words like "fled" and "hid", that you wish to convey, albeit subtly, a suggestion of cowardice.

As for the "young" woman comment, i appreciate that as a 75 year old most of the population is younger than your good self, but 43 is usually considered to be middle-aged.

Your screen name Rixalex always makes me think of a well known antibiotic made in Thailand

Well I cannot give you a link but I do remember seeing him at the time both on television and you tube, and he was a very frightened,white faced man, his body language was very clear. Yes, he was a coward, but that is not an insult, most people brought up with a civilised background like Eton and Oxford are totally unfamiliar with violence, the " flight or fight" reflex definitely favour flight. Have you ever been in a fight, if so can you remember how it felt the first time?

I guess you're right about the "young woman" comment, sorry my age is showing Still she is well preserved

[bungalownights]

well preserved ? in some photos she looks like she is in her late 20s or early 30s

[hyperdimension]

Will she campaign in Narathiwat, Pattani or Yala?

[Captain_Bob]

It's getting harder and harder to know who those Phoo Thai supporters have in mind. Remember, behind that "pretty face" is the guy pulling the strings.

[bungalownights]

nice wai

Edited June 9, 2011 by bungalownights

[rixalex]

Well I cannot give you a link but I do remember seeing him at the time both on television and you tube, and he was a very frightened,white faced man, his body language was very clear. Yes, he was a coward, but that is not an insult, most people brought up with a civilised background like Eton and Oxford are totally unfamiliar with violence, the " flight or fight" reflex definitely favour flight. Have you ever been in a fight, if so can you remember how it felt the first time?

As far as i am aware, Abhisit has been involved in two incidents of his car being attacked. One was in Pattaya on the 7th April 2009, when between 40 and 50 people attacked his car when it stopped in traffic, and the other was in Bangkok on the 24th April of the same year, at the Interior Ministry. It was after this second incident that he had to remain in army barracks for his safety, so i assume this is the incident to which you refer. All of the footage of this incident was from outside of the car, and there was no clear view of Abhisit being in the car. This is why Jatuporn was able to make the claim that he actually wasn't in the car at the time.

As for the description of someone as being a coward not being insulting is concerned, i don't agree and furthermore, i don't think fearing for one's safety when under attack - in the case of the Pattaya incident, by 40 or 50 people, qualifies a person as being cowardly. That description i would say more aptly fits with the mob of 40 or 50 people attacking 1 man.

[anterian]

Well I cannot give you a link but I do remember seeing him at the time both on television and you tube, and he was a very frightened,white faced man, his body language was very clear. Yes, he was a coward, but that is not an insult, most people brought up with a civilised background like Eton and Oxford are totally unfamiliar with violence, the " flight or fight" reflex definitely favour flight. Have you ever been in a fight, if so can you remember how it felt the first time?

As far as i am aware, Abhisit has been involved in two incidents of his car being attacked. One was in Pattaya on the 7th April 2009, when between 40 and 50 people attacked his car when it stopped in traffic, and the other was in Bangkok on the 24th April of the same year, at the Interior Ministry. It was after this second incident that he had to remain in army barracks for his safety, so i assume this is the incident to which you refer. All of the footage of this incident was from outside of the car, and there was no clear view of Abhisit being in the car. This is why Jatuporn was able to make the claim that he actually wasn't in the car at the time.

As for the description of someone as being a coward not being insulting is concerned, i don't agree and furthermore, i don't think fearing for one's safety when under attack - in the case of the Pattaya incident, by 40 or 50 people, qualifies a person as being cowardly. That description i would say more aptly fits with the mob of 40 or 50 people attacking 1 man.

Yes it was the second incident I was referring to, specifically his interview shortly after the event.

There are many forms of cowardice, "He who runs away, live to fight another day", is logical cowardice.

He who is still shaking in his shoes days later, is a different type of coward. If you have ever been on active service you will learn that there are many forms that both cowardice and bravery can take.

Fear is a sensible emotion, cowardice is not the same. A brave man act by overcoming his fears, a brave man without fear is a reckless fool.

[rubl]

there might be a simpler reason for Yingluck touring safe areas. She is a newcomer to the political arena, she needs to gain experience and confidence fast. Thus it is better to start with a responsive and sympathetic audience before moving on to areas where she will have to handle heckling and abuse, or worse.

I might accept the view that Ms. Yingluck should tour 'safe' areas first before progressing to other areas. Mind you she has been campaigning since about the 20th of May and in 24 days we'll have the elections. It's time she starts campaigning in other parts of the country. There may be a bit of heckling and abuse as k. Abhisit has encountered, but so far it has been minimal and no indication Ms. Yingluck will not be safe. Probably k. Abhisit will have a tougher job.

(some lines removed, see original for all)

From TAN Network:

"Reds Disrupt Abhisit's Campaign in Korat

UPDATE : 9 June 2011

Today, Democrat Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva is campaigning in Nakorn Ratchasima. Throughout his campaign route, reports indicate that his campaigning has been disrupted amidst his attempts to try and sway red shirt supporters' opinions of him."

[bungalownights]

I think Ahbisit would have more success if he said "sorry" first.

[rubl]

I think Ahbisit would have more success if he said "sorry" first.

K. Abhisit already said sorry a few times. Most of us living in Thailand do so frequently and living in Bangkok it even becomes a habit moving around.

I guess we have to ask k. Natthawut to explain one more time to his fellow UDD / red-shirts not to disturb k. Abhisit's campaign. With so many UDD leaders PTP party list candidates, obstruction of political opponents is against the Election Laws.

[bungalownights]

An insincere "sorry" counts for nothing.

[rixalex]

As far as i am aware, Abhisit has been involved in two incidents of his car being attacked. One was in Pattaya on the 7th April 2009, when between 40 and 50 people attacked his car when it stopped in traffic, and the other was in Bangkok on the 24th April of the same year, at the Interior Ministry. It was after this second incident that he had to remain in army barracks for his safety, so i assume this is the incident to which you refer. All of the footage of this incident was from outside of the car, and there was no clear view of Abhisit being in the car. This is why Jatuporn was able to make the claim that he actually wasn't in the car at the time.

As for the description of someone as being a coward not being insulting is concerned, i don't agree and furthermore, i don't think fearing for one's safety when under attack - in the case of the Pattaya incident, by 40 or 50 people, qualifies a person as being cowardly. That description i would say more aptly fits with the mob of 40 or 50 people attacking 1 man.

Yes it was the second incident I was referring to, specifically his interview shortly after the event.

I don't recall any TV interview shortly after this event. The country, and particularly the capital, was a chaotic mess, and the PM had his hands full trying to restore order. Perhaps he did find time for a TV interview and i missed it. Or perhaps you are referring to his address to the nation, but i don't think that was given shortly after the incident and i don't recall him looking frightened. Stressed and in need of sleep was how i recall his demeanour at that time.

[rixalex]

I think Ahbisit would have more success if he said "sorry" first.

For what exactly?

[animatic]

An insincere "sorry" counts for nothing.

Sincerity is subjective to the listener, but not those being sincere.

I found him sincere in his not wanting violence,

and avoiding it till there was no choice left.

You apparently don't want him to be sincere,

so don't hear it as such.

There is no sincerity in apologizing for things you had no control over.

Edited June 9, 2011 by animatic

[hyperdimension]

Will she campaign in Narathiwat, Pattani or Yala?

She needs to go to these areas and tell the people how she will stop all the violence down there (within how many months?).

[ableguy]

Th ePress has refered to the woman as 'Yingluck', and we clearly understand to whom they refer. Now we have the confusing headline of 'Thaksin' and for several years now that has meant one man. There is obviously a deliberate attempt to confuse.

Worse there is an attempt to do what the PT want. And that is associate Yingluck, the party, the second rate candidates with Thaksin himself.

Let the Thai people get what they deserve. Their fecklesness has delivered a country mired in poverty and corruption, high levels of crime, drug dependency, low education, HIV rates and a rampant sex industry.

It's up to them.

The political system they get is something they can not blame on the foreigne influence. We don't vote. They do.

If Thaksin is returned then how much worse will it be than if he doesn't? There are no knights in shining armour about to right wrongs. The Thai ship sails in a sewer. Do you expect a breath of fresh air?

Well said, if he does return hell will break loose so things will be normal.

[anterian]

As far as i am aware, Abhisit has been involved in two incidents of his car being attacked. One was in Pattaya on the 7th April 2009, when between 40 and 50 people attacked his car when it stopped in traffic, and the other was in Bangkok on the 24th April of the same year, at the Interior Ministry. It was after this second incident that he had to remain in army barracks for his safety, so i assume this is the incident to which you refer. All of the footage of this incident was from outside of the car, and there was no clear view of Abhisit being in the car. This is why Jatuporn was able to make the claim that he actually wasn't in the car at the time.

As for the description of someone as being a coward not being insulting is concerned, i don't agree and furthermore, i don't think fearing for one's safety when under attack - in the case of the Pattaya incident, by 40 or 50 people, qualifies a person as being cowardly. That description i would say more aptly fits with the mob of 40 or 50 people attacking 1 man.

Yes it was the second incident I was referring to, specifically his interview shortly after the event.

I don't recall any TV interview shortly after this event. The country, and particularly the capital, was a chaotic mess, and the PM had his hands full trying to restore order. Perhaps he did find time for a TV interview and i missed it. Or perhaps you are referring to his address to the nation, but i don't think that was given shortly after the incident and i don't recall him looking frightened. Stressed and in need of sleep was how i recall his demeanour at that time.

Interpreting a person's body language is partly instinctive, partly learnt, it is however subjective, you saw him as stressed and in need of sleep, I saw him as scared witless. Perhaps he was both

[animatic]

As far as i am aware, Abhisit has been involved in two incidents of his car being attacked. One was in Pattaya on the 7th April 2009, when between 40 and 50 people attacked his car when it stopped in traffic, and the other was in Bangkok on the 24th April of the same year, at the Interior Ministry. It was after this second incident that he had to remain in army barracks for his safety, so i assume this is the incident to which you refer. All of the footage of this incident was from outside of the car, and there was no clear view of Abhisit being in the car. This is why Jatuporn was able to make the claim that he actually wasn't in the car at the time.

As for the description of someone as being a coward not being insulting is concerned, i don't agree and furthermore, i don't think fearing for one's safety when under attack - in the case of the Pattaya incident, by 40 or 50 people, qualifies a person as being cowardly. That description i would say more aptly fits with the mob of 40 or 50 people attacking 1 man.

Yes it was the second incident I was referring to, specifically his interview shortly after the event.

I don't recall any TV interview shortly after this event. The country, and particularly the capital, was a chaotic mess, and the PM had his hands full trying to restore order. Perhaps he did find time for a TV interview and i missed it. Or perhaps you are referring to his address to the nation, but i don't think that was given shortly after the incident and i don't recall him looking frightened. Stressed and in need of sleep was how i recall his demeanour at that time.

Interpreting a person's body language is partly instinctive, partly learnt, it is however subjective, you saw him as stressed and in need of sleep, I saw him as scared witless. Perhaps he was both

If a crazed gang of screaming zealots was trying to rip you limb for limb, then scared witless for a few moments might not be a unreasonable response, unless you are specifically well trained against such a circumstance.

Edited June 9, 2011 by animatic

[lannarebirth]

Remember how shaken and frightened Abhisit was when his car was attacked, he fled and hid in the army barracks. What would be the effect of a similar attack on a young woman?

Have to say, i don't remember Abhisit being on camera looking shaken or frightened after the incident, although i imagine he may well have been - who wouldn't?

I get the impression that with that comment, and with using words like "fled" and "hid", that you wish to convey, albeit subtly, a suggestion of cowardice.

As for the "young" woman comment, i appreciate that as a 75 year old most of the population is younger than your good self, but 43 is usually considered to be middle-aged.

Your screen name Rixalex always makes me think of a well known antibiotic made in Thailand

Well I cannot give you a link but I do remember seeing him at the time both on television and you tube, and he was a very frightened,white faced man, his body language was very clear. Yes, he was a coward, but that is not an insult, most people brought up with a civilised background like Eton and Oxford are totally unfamiliar with violence, the " flight or fight" reflex definitely favour flight. Have you ever been in a fight, if so can you remember how it felt the first time?

I guess you're right about the "young woman" comment, sorry my age is showing Still she is well preserved

Coward? I had been willing to give you the benefit of the doubt till now but now I see you are nothing but an idiot. Ignored.

[rubl]

Interpreting a person's body language is partly instinctive, partly learnt, it is however subjective, you saw him as stressed and in need of sleep, I saw him as scared witless. Perhaps he was both

If a crazed gang of screaming zealots was trying to rip you limb for limb, then scared witless for a few moments might not be a unreasonable response, unless you are specifically well trained against such a circumstance.

One may wonder what would have been said had PM Abhisit grown broad shouldered, split his shirt and turned green. He would probably have been charged with prejudice against red and with threatening peaceful protesters

[rixalex]

Yes it was the second incident I was referring to, specifically his interview shortly after the event.

I don't recall any TV interview shortly after this event. The country, and particularly the capital, was a chaotic mess, and the PM had his hands full trying to restore order. Perhaps he did find time for a TV interview and i missed it. Or perhaps you are referring to his address to the nation, but i don't think that was given shortly after the incident and i don't recall him looking frightened. Stressed and in need of sleep was how i recall his demeanour at that time.

Interpreting a person's body language is partly instinctive, partly learnt, it is however subjective, you saw him as stressed and in need of sleep, I saw him as scared witless. Perhaps he was both

Perhaps another factor here is memory? You remembered it as being an interview. It wasn't. You remembered it as being shortly after the incident. It wasn't. How many other details have become confused over the passage of time?

[rixalex]

Coward? I had been willing to give you the benefit of the doubt till now but now I see you are nothing but an idiot. Ignored.

How anybody can watch that video and call any one of the occupants of the car cowardly i just don't know. As i said before, the cowards were those who grouped together in the safety of numbers and who armed themselves with metal bars and other such weapons.

[warfie]

Remember how shaken and frightened Abhisit was when his car was attacked, he fled and hid in the army barracks. What would be the effect of a similar attack on a young woman?

Have to say, i don't remember Abhisit being on camera looking shaken or frightened after the incident, although i imagine he may well have been - who wouldn't?

I get the impression that with that comment, and with using words like "fled" and "hid", that you wish to convey, albeit subtly, a suggestion of cowardice.

As for the "young" woman comment, i appreciate that as a 75 year old most of the population is younger than your good self, but 43 is usually considered to be middle-aged.

Your screen name Rixalex always makes me think of a well known antibiotic made in Thailand

Well I cannot give you a link but I do remember seeing him at the time both on television and you tube, and he was a very frightened,white faced man, his body language was very clear. Yes, he was a coward, but that is not an insult, most people brought up with a civilised background like Eton and Oxford are totally unfamiliar with violence, the " flight or fight" reflex definitely favour flight. Have you ever been in a fight, if so can you remember how it felt the first time?

I guess you're right about the "young woman" comment, sorry my age is showing Still she is well preserved

Coward? I had been willing to give you the benefit of the doubt till now but now I see you are nothing but an idiot. Ignored.

I think that fear would be perfectly normal in this circumstance, same as seeking protection ('hiding in an army compound' as some have phrased it). Are you (Anterian) trying to say that you would not be afraid if you were in this situation?

Only a person with a severe learning disability (to be as PC and polite as possible) would not be afraid.

True courage is knowing fear and proceeding anyway, which K. Abhisit did.

"Cowardice" would be displayed by, oh, I don't know... maybe, quitting and jumping on the next flight out of the country...

[Buchholz]

there might be a simpler reason for Yingluck touring safe areas. She is a newcomer to the political arena, she needs to gain experience and confidence fast. Thus it is better to start with a responsive and sympathetic audience before moving on to areas where she will have to handle heckling and abuse, or worse.

Remember how shaken and frightened Abhisit was when his car was attacked, he fled and hid in the army barracks. What would be the effect of a similar attack on a young woman?

Likely the violent Red Shirts, such as those that have attacked Democrats' cars with hurled cinder blocks and steel rods (and yeah, I imagine that was a fearful event for the recipients), would track down whoever was giving Yingluck a difficult time, and perpetrate an escalating violent act against them.

.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Buchholz

[Ricardo]

I can only guess that you have never had to speak publicly to a large gathering. The first few times are daunting but it only takes a few such events to get into the swing of it. I am far from lacking in self confidence but the first time I addressed an audience of 2000 people I was very nervous, by the third time it was no problem. Public speaking skills and the ability to run a country are not the same thing, it just helps.

I sometimes have to address meetings, from 50-200 people, and despite a 2-day public-speaking training-course 25 years ago, will never actually enjoy the experience. I admire anyone who can say that they enjoy it ! :jap:

But Ms Yingluck has surely addressed large-groups from time to time, as a top business-manager over her long career, looking after 20 million customers ? If not, then was her former business-experience really good enough, to prepare her for the top-level politics which she has now committed herself to ?

A large group of business people or employees is not really a fair comparison. It is usually a few hundred at most and mannerly in their behavior. Perhaps a better comparison might be an AGM with several thousand angry shareholders.

Yep, I wouldn't want to be the Chairman-of-the-Board of a large Bank, at AGM-time !