Let'S Hope....

[PhayaoPete]

I have been here in Thailand for 10+ years and would not trade it for anywhere else. I wish I was aware of this place, 20 years ago. I am amazed by how few farangs have not caught on and hopefully, no more will. I would not trade my Thai wife, or any Thai farm girl....for 16 western women! Thai women do not have those "attitudes"....unless of course, you really piss them off. I think they were doing the Lorena Bobbitt thing, way before she did it, stateside. I can not personally vouch for any of the Bangkok or Pattaya women...but, I think they are too westernized to be rehabilitated. Once they get that taste of ATM gold....they are too far gone. With them....no money, no honey...forever. Another thing I really like about LOS....there are no spam-sucking, white-trash Walmarts here or even white trash for that matter. No race/ethnic groups with attitude issues...except down in the southern provinces and that is more fanatical religion than anything else. The cost of living here is still , so affordable and the medical scene is not a ridiculous joke of a rip-off racket. And I would like to add, at some point, we are going to be really appreciative that we are so close to the food source. I really would not want to be anyone, anywhere, and not have an exit strategy for when the proverbial ka-ka hits the fans...where ever they may be. The USA is sitting on a timebomb thanks to the greedy banks, wall street and POS politicians and when it goes....whew. It has been on the rim of the toilet for a while now and the flush has started. It was a GREAT country when I was born there. All through out my childhood there, the piece of American apple pie was within easy reach of those not too sorry or lazy to work for it. I loved the old USA. Okay, I will get off my soap box now....just had to get that aired, not that it makes a big deal. Just be glad whoever you all are, that you are here. It is probably one of the best places one could be. True it was even better way back when, but we can not live in the past. PP

[kandahar]

Lots of truth in that. Can't say anything about the south, as I have never been there, except to say, I am SURE there are good men and women there as well as here. But, yeah, CR and Thailand in general, is good. And yes, the BIG western collapse has not hit yet but it is coming. I firmly believe that as bad as it is, in the not too distant future, people in that part of the world will look back on 2009-2011 as good times. Unfortunately, when the collapse comes, it will be felt here. Fortunately, as you said, we ARE at the food source, which means we should fare better than some.

[tonititan]

No race/ethnic groups with attitude issues...except down in the southern provinces and that is more fanatical religion than anything else

Really? I always heard that there was extreme racism here, with Thais being racist toward certain races (blacks) & certain nationalities (Indian, Burmese to name a couple).

[gennisis]

Referring to your comments on the future in the USA,I guess that the 'recognising' of the state in the USA...Banks.etc that the 'good life' days must be coming to a close.

Why would developing countries continue to subsidise the USA? when they are near to 'nirvana' themselves?

The state I see on TV and read on the internet ,of life in the USA cerainly does not appeal to me....mind you life in GB doesnt seem so great either...( remind me to stop reading from the Daily Mail)!!!

At the moment living here in Thailand seems OK

[brianmarinus]

Hi!

Just want to say-thank you-not so often to se positive writting about Thailand on the internet,so that was great to se.

And I agree whit you all the way.

To you all-in CR and all over Thailand-have a good day and take care of your self and each other.

[jubby]

hey, I like it here too but one thing is for sure; most of us are only here until our next Visa renewal. If the west does go tits up, will we be given refugee status or sent packing !?.

I suspect the later. or maybe we will we be moved to some refugee camp in mae Sot !?

Ofcourse there's simply no credit in Thailand, no one uses credit right !? All those new Houses , new Cars and new motorbikes were all paid up in cash from everyones Rice or casava harvest or via the farang ATM.

Its simply Nirvana here, the Banking system here exists unlike no other in the world.

I don't know anyone in our Village who isn't existing in a vicious Circle of debt. but I suspect my Village is unique.

and if you have a problem, need to move something on the quiet, then just ask a local BIB.

As for being close to the Food Source !? No arable land in the Good O'l USA ? No frogs in the Ponds ?

Please, lets put it in perpective

Hey, Don't Talk to me about Politicians , fine upstanding Citizens here !?

Edited June 11, 2011 by jubby

[kandahar]

As for being close to the Food Source !? No arable land in the Good O'l USA ? No frogs in the Ponds ?

Lots of arable land in the USA. Lots of crops grown. The largest crops from the US are rough grain crops. Unfortunately, the largest part of it is grown to feed animals that are then eaten by the people. So lots of waste in that product stream. The bulk of fruits and vegetables for sale in the US are imported from poor countries.

[charlie1968]

No race/ethnic groups with attitude issues...except down in the southern provinces and that is more fanatical religion than anything else

Really? I always heard that there was extreme racism here, with Thais being racist toward certain races (blacks) & certain nationalities (Indian, Burmese to name a couple).

i hear the same as well

charlie

[PhayaoPete]

No race/ethnic groups with attitude issues...except down in the southern provinces and that is more fanatical religion than anything else

Really? I always heard that there was extreme racism here, with Thais being racist toward certain races (blacks) & certain nationalities (Indian, Burmese to name a couple).

I suspect you are very correct, but myself, not being black, Burmese or Indian, have never encountered any of that. I do believe there is an ongoing rise in xenophobia here. Although I certainly could never tell it from the folks I live near, but who knows? Jealousy revels itself in many ways. If all I have to endure in the oh-not-that-department is being audibly exposed to loud Thia pop music/karaoke, then I am a very happy camper, indeed! I do wish it was safer to drive here than what it is, though. Other than that.....I love it here! PP

[skybluestu]

No race/ethnic groups with attitude issues...except down in the southern provinces and that is more fanatical religion than anything else

Really? I always heard that there was extreme racism here, with Thais being racist toward certain races (blacks) & certain nationalities (Indian, Burmese to name a couple).

I suspect you are very correct, but myself, not being black, Burmese or Indian, have never encountered any of that. I do believe there is an ongoing rise in xenophobia here. Although I certainly could never tell it from the folks I live near, but who knows? Jealousy revels itself in many ways. If all I have to endure in the oh-not-that-department is being audibly exposed to loud Thia pop music/karaoke, then I am a very happy camper, indeed! I do wish it was safer to drive here than what it is, though. Other than that.....I love it here! PP

Hey Pete, interesting thread, food for thought.

Any luck finding a Rottweiler puppy? You might not suffer from xenophobic attitudes but you might notice a few folks attitudes change once you are joined by one of those beautiful dogs. Some people aren't too keen on them and are quick to judge both them and their owners, Thais and Farang alike

[jaapfries]

When you're right, you're right ! ! !

True words & very well reflected.

I totally agree ! !

:jap:

Cheers !

Edited June 12, 2011 by jaapfries

[PhayaoPete]

No race/ethnic groups with attitude issues...except down in the southern provinces and that is more fanatical religion than anything else

Really? I always heard that there was extreme racism here, with Thais being racist toward certain races (blacks) & certain nationalities (Indian, Burmese to name a couple).

I suspect you are very correct, but myself, not being black, Burmese or Indian, have never encountered any of that. I do believe there is an ongoing rise in xenophobia here. Although I certainly could never tell it from the folks I live near, but who knows? Jealousy revels itself in many ways. If all I have to endure in the oh-not-that-department is being audibly exposed to loud Thia pop music/karaoke, then I am a very happy camper, indeed! I do wish it was safer to drive here than what it is, though. Other than that.....I love it here! PP

Hey Pete, interesting thread, food for thought.

Any luck finding a Rottweiler puppy? You might not suffer from xenophobic attitudes but you might notice a few folks attitudes change once you are joined by one of those beautiful dogs. Some people aren't too keen on them and are quick to judge both them and their owners, Thais and Farang alike

Not yet....still getting the wall put up, finally. Once that is in place, I will really start on my search. And do not really care who judges or not. But I do know what you mean. I would also like to find a kitten about the same time and raise them together. Together....the dynamic duo....would take care of everything of mice and men. Not looking to train as attack animals, especially the Rott....just want an ominous and intimidating barking presence. The cat....okay....an attack cat for mice. Both are relatively cheap insurance. We have not had any problem with anything most of the time we have been here...even without a wall around the house. But with the increase of ya-ba heads, I want it to stay that way. PP

[lannaman]

PhayaoPete - for a newbie you have made a very good start with a very interesting thread.

I do agree that some, but not all Thais are racist towards the minority tribes (my ex-thaiwife was) Burmese etc too.

Also there is some evidence that there is anti-falang sentiments among some Thais, although I have never in 18 years experienced this myself. I can understand this when one sees some of the scruffy unwashed tourists about, also we must appreciate that we with the dosh may have the pick of their women and there must be some jealousy amongst the guys here.

I do share your concerns about the likely collapse of the West, this is especially so as I have a lovely family in the UK and do worry about the future of my grandkids. Depite the low rates of exchange it might be an idea to move assets here if you haven't done so already.

I'm a bit surprised the falang feminist brigade have not had their say about your original post, I quite agree with you but do have a few misgivings about Thai ladies, having had a couple of bad experiences.

Hope you will travel to join us at some of the social events, eg: Potluck and motorcycle day rides, fun and good company.

[jubby]

I'm just so surprised your all so positive about thailand and negative about the west.

A collapse of the west and you have to include Japan in this scenario because they are in bigger shit than most of us, would have dire consequences for most of us who rely on income from there. very few of us are totally self relient here or would be allowed to be. We have 40 rai or so, So in theory close to the food source if things every get that bad. Anything I've ever tried to grow here that can be eaten by man is first eaten by insects before I get a look in. Thailand doesn't have this amazing climate where everything grows without the use of chemical fertilizers or pesticides.

you can forget Oil from the Middle-east because that would likely implode without interference from the west

China would ride roughshod over everyone including Thailand.

Most of us are very comfortable here, but most are on the outside looking in.

Ok, the west has to make adjustments , the current system is unsustainable. a definition of proverty in the UK, could be an unmarried mother with 3 kids to 3 different fathers. She sits at home watching her 50 inch TV screen, eating take away meals, and enjoying her Bingo while the goverment give her more money a week, than 80% of thais earn a month. The same un-married mother here would most likely sit twiddling her thumbs before deciding to go into the worlds oldest proffesion.

people always play down the importance of tourism here, but the further reduction in western tourism in the event of a total collapse of the west would have a huge impact here. Don't know where all these wealthy Chinese are that are going to save Thai Toursim . I've certainly never seen any.

[Thighlander]

As for being close to the Food Source !? No arable land in the Good O'l USA ? No frogs in the Ponds ?

Lots of arable land in the USA. Lots of crops grown. The largest crops from the US are rough grain crops. Unfortunately, the largest part of it is grown to feed animals that are then eaten by the people. So lots of waste in that product stream. The bulk of fruits and vegetables for sale in the US are imported from poor countries.

Visit California sometime...............World's leading producer of many items, and easily outproduces the entire nation of Thailand. But, Thailand IS a net food exporter, and that is a great thing----food is higher in landlocked Laos and I've heard it's higher in Cambodia, too. USDA choice tenderloin of beef for 400 per KG here in Arizona. Sirloin steak 180 kg. Chiang Rai has its pluses for sure, but as stated many are in a sea of debt.

[kandahar]

As for being close to the Food Source !? No arable land in the Good O'l USA ? No frogs in the Ponds ?

Lots of arable land in the USA. Lots of crops grown. The largest crops from the US are rough grain crops. Unfortunately, the largest part of it is grown to feed animals that are then eaten by the people. So lots of waste in that product stream. The bulk of fruits and vegetables for sale in the US are imported from poor countries.

Chiang Rai has its pluses for sure, but as stated many are in a sea of debt.

Yes, the locals are in a sea of debt. Bad times coming in that respect.

Edited June 12, 2011 by kandahar

[kandahar]

I have been in California way too many times. I know what they produce. The US cannot sustain itself with what it grows. Lots would have to change in order for that statement to be made differently. And it may change some day. But right now, US producers are crying for help because the immigrant labor is being driven away, the US government is trying to persuade the outraged out-of-work US citizens to go take some of that work and in the last report I read, of thousands inquiring about the work and pay, only three people actually showed up for work. Thailand on the other hand, isn't too averse to farming food crops by hand for a buck/baht. When it all hits the fan, Thai farmers and laborers won't have to readjust their pride and work habits to feed themselves and the locals.

Edited June 12, 2011 by kandahar

[kandahar]

Thais can make the most of the space they have. Or do not have.

Edited June 12, 2011 by kandahar

[Thighlander]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition

2010:

US: 175 Billion

Thailand 33 Billion

US wins on a per capita basis also, even though it is only 1.2% of total GDP, while Thailand agriculture represents 10.2% of its GDP.

[kandahar]

http://en.wikipedia....tor_composition

2010:

US: 175 Billion

Thailand 33 Billion

US wins on a per capita basis also, even though it is only 1.2% of total GDP, while Thailand agriculture represents 10.2% of its GDP.

This is a nice chart. Keep it close by. You'll be needing it to help explain to people why they need to learn to eat rough grains from the silos and bales of hay from the fields one day. Agriculture includes corn, alfalfa, maize, and many other products which are raised specifically for feed for other animals and even some which are raised specifically for fuel production. Also included in the agriculture figures is beef, pork, chicken and all other animals raised for processing or for sale, even as pets. For edible produce, including fruits and veggies, the US is a net importer and Thailand is a net exporter. If you take away the imports from the US, the eating experience is going to become pretty dire, pretty quick.

Charts and statistics are pretty cool. But the real deal comes down to the market. Spend a year shopping in the US and account for how much of what you buy is imported and then ask how life would be for the next year if those products weren't available to you or anyone else in that country. Figure your fish purchases in that equation as well since the majority of fish is imported. Then spend a year here doing the same thing. You will find imports in the local markets in CR but they do not make up near as big a percentage of the available product here. And the menu in Thailand gets even better when you consider that most of what you eat on any given day was picked/harvested/killed that morning or the day before. It hasn't spent three weeks in the refrigerated 40 ft container in the hold of a ship. If the world goes upside down, a small country like this is going to survive better than a country that depends on imports for survival.

[toybits]

No racism? Wake up dude. Just ask any tribal person or a Burmese or Lao person. Just because you don't see it doesn't me it doesn't exist.

[Thighlander]

I disagree. I live in Arizona, and only some of our winter produce is imported. 5 billion kg per year through the Nogales port of entry, a lot of it headed to Canada. I've talked to the guy selling produce at Worrorat in CNX, and I told him out grape and apple prices--40 thb per kg, he was charging 80, and he said I buy from you.....Had any cherries lately? What about wine? 90 thb per bottle--italian, french or californian, and some oz and chilean, too. What about cheese? 165 per kg here, and that's not even a big promotion. Eggs have been less than 30 thb per dozen, too. As I stated--California alone outproduces Thailand...50 billion to 33 billion. I love Thailand, too, but over time you realize there are the best of both Worlds. Bought some nice tax free cigars from an Indian Reservation in PA--less than half of Thai prices..........

[kandahar]

I won't argue with you that the western world has some better deals than here in some respects. And I can't argue that vanilla is better than chocolate or visa versa. I can only say that if it all truly collapses, I will be better off here than there.

Comparing gross anything from this point to that point is pointless, when you don't figure in how many people at each point can benefit from the gross whatever. But some people cannot see that, so to point that out to them is pointless.

Pointless aside, it is very easy to look at what you have in your own yard and decide that it is enough to take care of your country's needs. It is quite a different perspective to be in the old Hunts Point market in NY or the Water Street market in Chicago or one of the many, many grocer owned produce warehouses and see what is coming in from overseas. It gives a real perspective on what it is taking to supply the markets.

The experts in that country are saying they are headed for another recession. A depression would be a better description and they know that but they can't say that. Panic will ensue if they do. Roaming gangs taking what food they can find from who they can find that has it will one day be a fact of life there. People will do whatever it takes to feed themselves and to feed their families. WHATEVER it takes.

The major difference in that respect, from here to there, is that there is enough food in this country to feed the population on any given day, without imports. The same cannot be said for that country. Wine and cherries and cheese be damned. That is the very thinking that will in the end be the downfall. Spending on the essentials is the strong point of this little country, even though it has just entered an era where excess is starting to look better and better. However, it hasn't progressed enough that people will be unwilling to live within their means because they think they are entitled to it when the credit runs out. They won't be unwilling to step back and start eating what they ate as children. The standard of living may drop here but it won't go into a negative figure. As I have said before, these people can be dropped into a jungle with nothing and come out six months later fatter than when they went in.

[jubby]

I guess a few of them would lose some weight in that Jungle. My Wife certainly wouldn't fare well.

I suspect being a 'non-immigrant' myself , I'd be seen as a liability and rounded up and shot.

oh, but wait a minute , theres no bloody Jungle left, just a few national parks .

Game on here too methinks

[scorpio1945]

I guess a few of them would lose some weight in that Jungle. My Wife certainly wouldn't fare well.

I suspect being a 'non-immigrant' myself , I'd be seen as a liability and rounded up and shot.

oh, but wait a minute , theres no bloody Jungle left, just a few national parks .

Game on here too methinks

A genuine LOL

[extexthai]

Being a biologist I have to say....every ecosystem has a carrying capacity. You can only put so much water in a 10 liter bucket....about 10 liters worth and no more. No one wants to talk about population anymore. I guess that is past the point of no return. Our species is a cancerous growth on this planet...with absolutely no end in sight! Population growth is exponential. Did anyone ever tell you about working for a penny a day for thirty days and doubling it every day...then adding it all together? Yes, the first two and half weeks really suck, but soon after that...wow. Do the math. It is astounding and that is just the way population growth is. I am afraid it will have to run its course and we are just along for the ride. Mind you, I think our seats from here are a way better bet than elsewhere. And this thread has taken on the direction of only talking about food for the multitudes...not drinking water. That is another story. Yes, I would much, much rather be here than anywhere else when that time comes, and keeping up with all the BS going on in the States and worldwide....I am afraid that time could be just right around the corner. All that has to happen is the US dollar crashing and the way those greedy vultures on Wall Street are working it, it won't be long. Derivitives, scherivertives. Betting on the actual collapse of the markets...that is what they are doing there! And are you aware of corporate farming? Corporate anything for that matter. Yes, Africa is being re-colonized by rich corporations for the sole purpose of turning bucks. I think we will see the sh*t hit the fan in our lifetimes....as long as we stay off the buses in this country. We homo sapiens are a sad lot, actually. We have the ability to reason, something others in the animal kingdom lack.....hmmmm....survival of the fittest or what? ett

[PhayaoPete]

GENTLEMEN! And who ever else is tuned in to this thread....I see we have some that are, in the know and some that are on the go....it is all good. As a drinking and thinking man...I must say....this has been a great discussion. Kandahar, I think you are really right on the money about dropping these northern folks in the middle of nowhere, next to BFE and them coming out far better than you or I. The people here are true survivors...in the real world. Even if they don't eat cheese. All I know is....I am certainly glad to be where I am now. And that mention of drinking water....I have to drink bottled water where I am....the shallow water table here has been so polluted by either human waste or agricultural chemicals. For their sake and ours...I hope his changing climate stuff doesn't interrupt the rainy season too much. It was sure earlier this year than I ever remember...but then I have been diagnosed with RSC...or was that CRS....I can't remember. Cheers...PP

[jubby]

The Human body is made up mostly of water , Lets start eating People . It would solve the food, water and Population problems.

[Hardie]

Better stock up on whatever it is you're smoking, might come in handy in July...