Amnesty For Thaksin Not Wise : Sanan

[hellodolly]

She said

"She reaffirms that her party is sincere towards people in the South, saying that everyone is Thai and there is no need to discriminate against fellow citizens. "

Kinda like saying there is no problem in the southern provinces. We are all Thai.

Not a heck of a lot of knowledge of what is happening down south.

So are you saying the people in the South are not Thais? What are you suggesting? That they're illegal immigrants living in Thailand? I don't know, but her suggestion that they're Thais makes sense to me. Last time I checked, they all had Thai passports. But maybe you know something I don't.

You need to go back an reread what he wrote. It is obvious he knows something you don't but I don't see any way to correct that deficiency

I did read it. And he basically wrote that she doesn't know anything about the South and justified it by saying that it was because she said "We are all Thai". If that makes sense to you..

That is correct she does not know much about the south. For instance if left alone they will form there own country.

[ginjag]

begin removed ...

You are trying to fudge the facts. I never claimed laws were changed, they changed the facts so that the laws could be applied.

(rubl: the you refers to TAWP)

The part 'they changed the facts' needs some explanation, a bit of proof would be nice also. IMHO.

Facts based on science can be shown to be wrong, for example the phlogiston theory. Facts can also be changed by human perceptions, for example holocaust deniers. Past events can be reinterpreted, past decisions can be reversed. Facts are not carved in stone. At the time of the land purchase the selling agency had a management committee which was not appointed by the government. At the time of the trial this fact was reassessed and changed, it was determined that it was a government agency. Thus by changing the facts Thaksin became guilty. All perfectly legal and above board, no laws were changed, just one fact.

Why do I have to provide proof, you are the ones contesting my statement? Thaksin was convicted legitimately and by the letter of the law, but the tactic used was unethical. Many more able people than me feel the same, the issue is not one of law but of ethics. The anti-Thaksin brigade such as yourself seem to have the philosophy, the end justifies the means. Globally this seems to be an increasing trend, it is a totalitarian approach which you seem to approve of, but it worries me.

It's maybe NOT an anti-Thaksin brigade, it also could mean that people want to see justice being served. It also worries me the tone of some people who don't recognize this, and use the usual anti-Thaksin talk to hide the injustice. It's not dissimilar to the wealthy paying off the bib to escape prosecution. But I could ask why didn't he with all his billions???

[animatic]

Facts are stubborn things.

Only perceptions of them change or reactions.

Facts may be denied, and ignored, but not changed.

Facts stay exactly the same, whether undiscovered or re-interpreted.

Fact Thailand was formed from sections of adjoining ethnic groups, some more willingly than others. These groups were renamed arbitrarily Siamese and then Thais, and an over arching schooling hardcore, 'us against them' nationalism was started and essentially has never been able to stop.

This divided the old ethnic border divisions from themselves via newly drawn borders, by demanding regardless of ethnic connections ;THAI-NESS and obedience. But the old ethnic devisions and prejudices remain ingrained to the bone in the many groups. And so segments of those groups yearn for their 'fellwo ethnics' to be rejoined based on age old tribal land inhabitation.

Thailand is na artificial construct and must try at all costs to maintain it's borders against it's neighbors, lest it fly apart into the old ethnic enclaves.

Add to this the Chinese organizational presence that was officially Thaified and allowed to be the bureaucracy until it had essentially exterted the most control. It saw the nationalsim as a tool of control, with themselves at the helm under a national figurehead.

Now different factions of this Thaiified Chinese bureaucratic body is using the ethnic divisions to hammer at each other for control, pending the coming 'naturally occurring' changing of figure head. At that sad point in the future, they hope to be reestablished as main levers of control, to cement their control for their own dynasties long term strategies. Assorted tactical battles now with one long term strategic aim. Control a central commercial portal to Asia.

Edited June 19, 2011 by animatic

[anterian]

As it is well known that to criticise the courts in Thailand is a dangerous activity I will allow the people arguing with me to have their shallow victory. However this I can say as it is not a criticism of the court but rather the Thai administrative structure.

The land was purchased from the Bank of Thailand’s Financial Institutions Development Fund

here is the BOT organisation chart http://www.bot.or.th//English/AboutBOT/Documents/organEng.pdf

Note the Financial Institutions Development Fund is shown but not attached to the main tree structure.

At the time of the purchase it was assumed by all, including Thaksin, that the Bank of Thailand’s Financial Institutions Development Fund was controlled by the Bank of Thailand, a reasonable assumption given its title.

Prior to his trial, and after the purchase, the status of the Bank of Thailand’s Financial Institutions Development Fund was reappraised, it was determined that notwithstanding its name it was nonetheless a government agency.

Thus the judges had no option but to convict him, but it was even then not unanimous.

Whatever you may think of Thaksin, he is not stupid, he knew it was not a government agency at the time of the purchase, he did not allows for the fact it would retroactively become one.

[animatic]

As it is well known that to criticise the courts in Thailand is a dangerous activity I will allow the people arguing with me to have their shallow victory. However this I can say as it is not a criticism of the court but rather the Thai administrative structure.

The land was purchased from the Bank of Thailand's Financial Institutions Development Fund

here is the BOT organisation chart http://www.bot.or.th...ts/organEng.pdf

Note the Financial Institutions Development Fund is shown but not attached to the main tree structure.

At the time of the purchase it was assumed by all, including Thaksin, that the Bank of Thailand's Financial Institutions Development Fund was controlled by the Bank of Thailand, a reasonable assumption given its title.

Prior to his trial, and after the purchase, the status of the Bank of Thailand's Financial Institutions Development Fund was reappraised, it was determined that notwithstanding its name it was nonetheless a government agency.

Thus the judges had no option but to convict him, but it was even then not unanimous.

Whatever you may think of Thaksin, he is not stupid, he knew it was not a government agency at the time of the purchase, he did not allows for the fact it would retroactively become one.

National Central Banks are run by governments.

Bank of Thailand is the Central Bank of Thailand

The Financial Institutions Development Fund

is controlled by the Bank Of Thailand.

More likely he thought he had the power to make it appear not government connected, and was surprised to find he did NOT have the power he thought.

Obviously wishful thinking from excessive hubris.

Edited June 19, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

Financial Institutions Development Fund

is controlled by the Bank Of Thailand.

which answers to the Minster of Finance,

who answers to the Prime Minister of Thailand.

List ----------------- Regulatory agencies. -------------- Governing Law.

1.Bank of Thailand ----------- Ministry of Finance. ----------- Bank of Thailand Act

BE 2485 as amended.2.Commercial banks.Bank of ThailandFinancial Institutions Act.

2551.

This page can translate well to English.

http://www.bot.or.th.../Regulator.aspx

Edited June 19, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

As it is well known that to criticise the courts in Thailand is a dangerous activity I will allow the people arguing with me to have their shallow victory. However this I can say as it is not a criticism of the court but rather the Thai administrative structure.

The land was purchased from the Bank of Thailand's Financial Institutions Development Fund

here is the BOT organisation chart http://www.bot.or.th...ts/organEng.pdf

Note the Financial Institutions Development Fund is shown but not attached to the main tree structure.

At the time of the purchase it was assumed by all, including Thaksin, that the Bank of Thailand's Financial Institutions Development Fund was controlled by the Bank of Thailand, a reasonable assumption given its title.

Prior to his trial, and after the purchase, the status of the Bank of Thailand's Financial Institutions Development Fund was reappraised, it was determined that notwithstanding its name it was nonetheless a government agency.

Thus the judges had no option but to convict him, but it was even then not unanimous.

Whatever you may think of Thaksin, he is not stupid, he knew it was not a government agency at the time of the purchase, he did not allows for the fact it would retroactively become one.

If you turn that tree upside down it is a major root attached branch and not a partially attached descendant.

In any case it IS directly attached descending from the Bank Of Thailand,

4 levels down, and still subject to Audit Board. Office of Corporate Strategy, Governor and Board, and still above them the Finance Minister's authority. It actually is missing a level of control bureaucracy, as several other same level departments are. But then subject to the FIDF committee to oversee it, still under the governor.

'Assuming' the law says one thing, is not the same as

KNOWING the law says one thing.

Many a man has seen jail for ignorance of the law.

Edited June 19, 2011 by animatic

[whybother]

National Central Banks are run by governments.

Bank of Thailand is the Central Bank of Thailand

The Financial Institutions Development Fund

is controlled by the Bank Of Thailand.

More likely he thought he had the power to make it appear not government connected, and was surprised to find he did NOT have the power he thought.

Obviously wishful thinking from excessive hubris.

With it being possibly controlled by the government, you'd think Thaksin would have checked. Maybe he's not that smart after all.

[jdinasia]

As it is well known that to criticise the courts in Thailand is a dangerous activity I will allow the people arguing with me to have their shallow victory. However this I can say as it is not a criticism of the court but rather the Thai administrative structure.

The land was purchased from the Bank of Thailand’s Financial Institutions Development Fund

here is the BOT organisation chart http://www.bot.or.th//English/AboutBOT/Documents/organEng.pdf

Note the Financial Institutions Development Fund is shown but not attached to the main tree structure.

At the time of the purchase it was assumed by all, including Thaksin, that the Bank of Thailand’s Financial Institutions Development Fund was controlled by the Bank of Thailand, a reasonable assumption given its title.

Prior to his trial, and after the purchase, the status of the Bank of Thailand’s Financial Institutions Development Fund was reappraised, it was determined that notwithstanding its name it was nonetheless a government agency.

Thus the judges had no option but to convict him, but it was even then not unanimous.

Whatever you may think of Thaksin, he is not stupid, he knew it was not a government agency at the time of the purchase, he did not allows for the fact it would retroactively become one.

again ... we should stick with your statement of fact. Not your bias.

"Thaksin was convicted legitimately and by the letter of the law."

What I think is that Thaksin was stupid in this instance and in many others; and that he thought (and still thinks) that he is above the law. The case was "black letter law" which is why they went after it first. The rest of the outstanding cases all look at additional issues such as the status of his company whilst he was in office etc .... (though the Supreme Court's near unanimous decision not to hear an appeal on the assets seizure case shows that one pretty clearly.) Thaksin said openly that he trusted the courts (before he fled the jurisdiction.)

[anterian]

Financial Institutions Development Fund

is controlled by the Bank Of Thailand.

which answers to the Minster of Finance,

who answers to the Prime Minister of Thailand.

List ----------------- Regulatory agencies. -------------- Governing Law.

1.Bank of Thailand ----------- Ministry of Finance. ----------- Bank of Thailand Act

BE 2485 as amended.2.Commercial banks.Bank of ThailandFinancial Institutions Act.

2551.

This page can translate well to English.

http://www.bot.or.th.../Regulator.aspx

This is as now, as has been clarified by judicial revue, it was not clear cut at the time, look at the dates of the various regulatory acts.

The governor of the BOT is not under the control of the Finance Minister, certain duties which have been allocated to the BOT are under the control of the Finance Minister, indeed several times in recent years we have seen the governor of the BOT and the Finance minister at loggerheads, hardly possible if the Finance minister was the boss.

However, this is interesting but irrelevant to the issue. My contention, which I obviously cannot prove, is that Thaksin genuinely believed the Financial Institutions Development Fund was not a government agency. He may be corrupt and a megalomaniac but he is not stupid, the thinking at that time was it was not a government agency.

Whilst the governor is appointed by cabinet, he is, once appointed, not controlled by them.