Buddhist

[Spaniel]

Over the years here I have met a number of farangs who said they were a Buddhist. But to my knowledge the only thing they ever did was buy a gold chain and Budda amulet, put it around their neck and called themselves a Buddhist. My question is, is their an actual procedure or ceremony where one is accepted as a Buddhist and can then call themselves one? For instance if one wanted to become a Catholic. You couldn't just say I'm now a Catholic. Their would be a instruction period and finally baptism.

[canuckamuck]

It's a philosophy, so you can opt in and out as you please, or when it is convenient.

[camerata]

Check out this topic, Am I a Buddhist?.

[IMA_FARANG]

The last time I was in the U.S. (October 2010) I attended a Catholic Mass where a group of children were presented for baptisim. One of them was my sister's grand daughter.

Funny, I don't remember the priest when I entered the church asking me if I was Catholic or not. He didn't seem to care, just shook my hand and welcomed me to the church.

In the same way, when I arrived in Thailand last November my Thai wife asked me to go to a local Wat to attend a Buddhist ceremony on the anniversery of her father's death 2 years ago.

The monk that gave a blesing to the family didn't seem to care if I was a Buddhist or not.

He just shook my hand also when we left and thanked me for coming.

[krading]

I suppose I could consider myself a 'Bush Buddhist'.

I believe in the 'do unto others etc.' way of living but as for the abstaining from alcohol part......

I have been known to take to strong drink now and again...

and again and again and.....

[rockyysdt]

As C indicated, Buddhism, the way the Buddha taught, is a way of life and practice rather than a membership.

Of course ceremonies are involved when it comes to the higher levels of ordination as a Monk or Nun, but this is not necessary in order to practice.

On the other hand if your interpretation of Buddhism is of a religion mixed up with Animism, lucky charms, spirits, and superstition then there may be ceremonies involved.

Edited June 15, 2011 by rockyysdt

[Brucenkhamen]

Canuck is pretty much right I think.

Eastern religion isn't the same as those religions that have come out of the middle east, there isn't much emphasis of people being either in or out of a religion, there isn't much emphasis on a conversion experience. In asia people commonly engage in practises originating from more than one religion.

If some or all of the Buddhas teaching inspires you then follow it, if not then leave it.

I, or someone else might have an idea what's important and what's the minimum to be a real Buddhist but if that's not for you then there is nothing wrong with you following what inspires you.

You are responsible for your own actions.

[moobaan]

you just 'are'

[Xangsamhua]

I asked this question on another forum, an online sangha, and received several replies. Essentially, people responded that a ceremony is not necessary and that one who simply self-identifies is no less a "Buddhist" than one who goes through the precepts ceremony. However, like a wedding ceremony, taking refuge in the Triple Gem is an affirmation and celebration of what one now is and has attained - "having been brought to life in one's life", to quote the sensei.

Perhaps, being human and therefore social animals as well as individuals, we like to both self-identify and to be identified. Hence we like formalisation and ritual. Maybe not all of us, but many of us. So to formally commit to a practice and ethic in a public way seems a natural thing to do, but we don't really need to do it.

Personally, having broken so many promises and vows and resolutions in my life I'm wary of publicly committing to anything, but then I don't know that I'm a "Buddhist", just that Buddhist teaching consciously and articulately impacts on my life.

[Brucenkhamen]

just that Buddhist teaching consciously and articulately impacts on my life.

Then you are doing a lot better than many people who consider themselves Buddhist by birth.

[rockyysdt]

Personally, having broken so many promises and vows and resolutions in my life I'm wary of publicly committing to anything, but then I don't know that I'm a "Buddhist", just that Buddhist teaching consciously and articulately impacts on my life.

Interestingly, it could be said that we are all subject to the four noble truths (Buddhism) whether we identify with it or not.

[Brucenkhamen]

Interestingly, it could be said that we are all subject to the four noble truths (Buddhism) whether we identify with it or not.

Of course, just as we are all subject to gravity whether we identify with it or not.

[bankei]

Reciting the Pali stanzas below is traditionally considered establishing one as a Buddhist.

Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Dhammam saranam gacchami

Sangham saranam gacchami

Dutiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchimi

Dutiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Dutiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Tatiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Tatiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Tatiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

I go to the Buddha for refuge

I go to the Dhamma for refuge

I go to the Sangha for refuge

a second time....

a third time.....

[LazyYogi]

Reciting the Pali stanzas below is traditionally considered establishing one as a Buddhist.

Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Dhammam saranam gacchami

Sangham saranam gacchami

Dutiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchimi

Dutiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Dutiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Tatiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Tatiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

Tatiyampi Buddham Saranam Gacchami

I go to the Buddha for refuge

I go to the Dhamma for refuge

I go to the Sangha for refuge

a second time....

a third time.....

Indeed this is the traditional formula that is usually used for formally taking the Triple Refuge.

If you take refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha, then you are a Buddhist no matter what you might call yourself.

If you don't take refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha, then you aren't really a Buddhist regardless of what you call yourself.

But you forgot to change the words in a couple lines. It should be:

Buddham saranam gacchami

Dhammam saranam gacchami

Sangham saranam gacchami

Dutiyampi Buddham saranam gacchami

Dutiyampi Dhammam saranam gacchami

Dutiyampi Sangham saranam gacchami

Tatiyampi Buddham saranam gacchami

Tatiyampi Dhammam saranam gacchami

Tatiyampi Sangham saranam gacchami

I go to the Buddha for refuge

I go to the Dhamma for refuge

I go to the Sangha for refuge

A second time I go to the Buddha for refuge

A second time I go to the Dhamma for refuge

A second time I go to the Sangha for refuge

A third time I go to the Buddha for refuge

A third time I go to the Dhamma for refuge

A third time I go to the Sangha for refuge

[healthcaretaker]

Spainel,

Buddhism & Christianity are entirely 2 different concepts.

You need to "understand" in Buddhism while you need to "believe" in Christianity.

Buddhism is simply understanding life; based on logic, reasons, understandings and even scientific to some extend, although it was taught since pre-science time.

Just like you don't call yourself a scientist if you understand or have some science knowledge or you don't call yourself a Mathematician if you know how to calculate.

So you need not be a buddhist to practice buddhism.

Unlike Christianity, which is purely built on some myths and stories without logic or reasonings, not to mention even science.

Edited June 20, 2011 by healthcaretaker

[Jawnie]

I asked this question on another forum, an online sangha, and received several replies. Essentially, people responded that a ceremony is not necessary and that one who simply self-identifies is no less a "Buddhist" than one who goes through the precepts ceremony. However, like a wedding ceremony, taking refuge in the Triple Gem is an affirmation and celebration of what one now is and has attained - "having been brought to life in one's life", to quote the sensei.

Perhaps, being human and therefore social animals as well as individuals, we like to both self-identify and to be identified. Hence we like formalisation and ritual. Maybe not all of us, but many of us. So to formally commit to a practice and ethic in a public way seems a natural thing to do, but we don't really need to do it.

Personally, having broken so many promises and vows and resolutions in my life I'm wary of publicly committing to anything, but then I don't know that I'm a "Buddhist", just that Buddhist teaching consciously and articulately impacts on my life.

Many people say ceremony isn't necessary to becoming a Buddhist, but a little ceremony isn't going to hurt you, either, is it? There is a small ceremony for taking refuge by which one formal commits to following the Buddha's teachings. Frankly, I think it's not very helpful to reply to a question like this by telling someone they don't need to do anything, that they only need to "believe" or "follow" or "breath", etc. Buddhist sects have large organizations with lots of people, structures, and hierarchies. None these will save you or liberate you, but imply that someone need not, or can't, benefit from them or the traditions is bad advice and does't really answer the question.

Yes, everyone breaks their vows, that why we have ceremony and confession and renewal of vows. Yeah, if you are making the same mistakes you did 20 years ago, you might question your desire and motivation for calling yourself a Buddhist. Polish the mirror.

[ThaiPauly]

This is interesting.

I "try" to follow a buddhist way of living, as far as is reasonable, but I find it somewhat confusing.

My wife is devout, but when she pays she prays for good things to happen to her and her loved ones.

Currently I am sick, last week we went to one of the local wats here in CM where I donated quite a large amount towards some new khuti's that are being built there. The assistant abbot who we know quite well said a lot of prayers for me apparantly and my wife told me he would pray for me that night. But I am no better, in fact I had a heart related incident that came out of the blue three days later and ended up in ICU, this on top of my ongoing medical problem.

While at the wat my wife told me to put some flowers on a Buddha statue and make a wish.

Now I never wish or pray for good things for myself as I have been taught that this is selfish and won't work, but my wife thinks its OK, I ask here why she prays and makes merit for herslf and she said that most Thai's do. they pray for winning lottery numbers, they think that by making merit they are free to sin again and thier previous sins are cleansed by praying and merit making.(Not that she is a sinner-in fact she is a saint to me)

I just don't understand. I understand why christians pray for themselves and thier loved ones, which is why I turned my back on it, as I just don't believe in God anymore, but I also have a problem with praying for things that help ME, or having other people do so just because I gave some money to the temple. On that reasoning all the people with money should be healthy as they can afford to buy more merit, but they are not. Also the similarities with the catholic faith bother me in that you can we cleansed of sin by confession and then be free to sin again. That's just plain WRONG.

Fact is I am LOST.

I want faith, but seem to have lost it, I want to get better but nobody seems to be able to help me, if I thought that I could guarantee my recovery I would give more, but as I previously said I just don't have any faith in it.

I prefer the Buddist path to the that of Christianity, but I am obviously missing something that my Wife obviously has.

Someone once subscibed that they would rarther beleive in God and die to find he does not exsist than to not belive and die and find out he does.

Well I know the Bhudda exsisted and what he says made a lot of sense, but he also siad that you should not pray for yourself, he is not a GOD, he can't help you, as far as I know you should be thanking him for his wisdom which helps you in your life, am I right?, I have no idea anymore.

Maybe someone can help me.

Sorry if this post sounds disjointed or off topic, bu I just have to let this out.

Regards

TP

[rockyysdt]

Hi Pauly.

A large part of why you feel this way might be coming from the medical situation you find yourself in.

I can only empathize as it mustn't be very comfortable suffering from a life threatening condition.

Your answer is both easy & difficult.

Part of the answer lies in the fact that for the most part Thai Buddhists & many Thai Monks don't practice Buddhism (as the Buddha taught).

Your observations which disillusion you, aren't Buddhism although parts might be rooted in it.

You can't change centuries of indoctrination.

All you can do is observe your wife's practices without attachment.

If you want to experience the truth, practice as the Buddha taught.

Learn this from Dhamma and from good teachers.

Now the difficult part.

You need to practice daily and without attachment.

This is interesting.

I "try" to follow a buddhist way of living, as far as is reasonable, but I find it somewhat confusing.

My wife is devout, but when she pays she prays for good things to happen to her and her loved ones.

Currently I am sick, last week we went to one of the local wats here in CM where I donated quite a large amount towards some new khuti's that are being built there. The assistant abbot who we know quite well said a lot of prayers for me apparantly and my wife told me he would pray for me that night. But I am no better, in fact I had a heart related incident that came out of the blue three days later and ended up in ICU, this on top of my ongoing medical problem.

While at the wat my wife told me to put some flowers on a Buddha statue and make a wish.

Now I never wish or pray for good things for myself as I have been taught that this is selfish and won't work, but my wife thinks its OK, I ask here why she prays and makes merit for herslf and she said that most Thai's do. they pray for winning lottery numbers, they think that by making merit they are free to sin again and thier previous sins are cleansed by praying and merit making.(Not that she is a sinner-in fact she is a saint to me)

I just don't understand. I understand why christians pray for themselves and thier loved ones, which is why I turned my back on it, as I just don't believe in God anymore, but I also have a problem with praying for things that help ME, or having other people do so just because I gave some money to the temple. On that reasoning all the people with money should be healthy as they can afford to buy more merit, but they are not. Also the similarities with the catholic faith bother me in that you can we cleansed of sin by confession and then be free to sin again. That's just plain WRONG.

Fact is I am LOST.

I want faith, but seem to have lost it, I want to get better but nobody seems to be able to help me, if I thought that I could guarantee my recovery I would give more, but as I previously said I just don't have any faith in it.

I prefer the Buddist path to the that of Christianity, but I am obviously missing something that my Wife obviously has.

Someone once subscibed that they would rarther beleive in God and die to find he does not exsist than to not belive and die and find out he does.

Well I know the Bhudda exsisted and what he says made a lot of sense, but he also siad that you should not pray for yourself, he is not a GOD, he can't help you, as far as I know you should be thanking him for his wisdom which helps you in your life, am I right?, I have no idea anymore.

Maybe someone can help me.

Sorry if this post sounds disjointed or off topic, bu I just have to let this out.

Regards

TP

[Xangsamhua]

Pauly, I hope you feel better and that your condition improves.

There are people on this forum who can give you much better advice than I can and I hope they see your post and respond.

I notice that the Little Bangkok Sangha has retreats and in Chiangmai, too.

Their website is http://littlebang.org/retreats/

They have a fraternal group in Chiangmai, too.

http://greenpapayasangha.org/category/activities/

This is what they say about themselves: We meet at the beautiful Yoga Tree Studio (formerly the Yoga Studio) in Chiang Mai every Thursday evening at 7:30 pm. We sit in the tradition of Vietnamese Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh. All part-time Buddhas are welcome!

I think any group that sits in the tradition of Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh would give you the support you're looking for.

Metta thoughts to you and your family.

Xangsamhua