Thai Army Chief Enters Election Fray

[trisailer]

Why don't you just provide us with PROOF I'm sure TV will allow a link to FACTS. This could reduce my monthly costs by 1500 baht. so, give it to us.

Suggest that you read forum-rule 31, which prohibits quoting bangkokpost.com, we all find this constraining, but just have to live with it. Mai pen rai. :jap:

Also suggest you read my post #123, to see how Ms Yingluck proposes to increase the present monthly-rate, which she wouldn't do if the scheme didn't exist. Good luck in assisting your family-members.

My apologies, you are correct. My wife tells me that her grandparents do indeed recieve support from the government. She thinks it's 300baht each, but not sure.

[Thai at Heart]

He shouldn't give any inference about the type of people anyone should vote for. If it was good people we voted for in other parts of the world, Screaming Lord Such would have been PM.

[trisailer]

The problem this country has is how do you get a balanced election outcome when you have a largely manipulated, uneducated mass, who generally can't think for themselves, versus a much smaller educated middle class who can make a judgment on who should run the country. I know this sounds condescending, but it is a true assessment. Most people in Thailand have not completed education beyond 11 years old. It really is a tricky problem, and I don't know what the answer is. In a way I see where the Army is coming from, and they are the ultimate holders of peace and stability.

People like Taksin purely manipulate the uneducated masses to his benefit; history has proven this, and how do you stop people blatantly abusing their powers and even not respecting the law and outcome of legal judgments?

I am very sure Taksin will not be able to return, without his conviction being addressed. He should have played the game like others who have been convicted; you could be sure he won't serve much prison time, but he is above the law, right, and like a coward he ran away?

"People can't think for themselves." I say the same thing about my own country the US. I remember the headline across the front page of a British newspaper the day after Bush was reelected, it read STUPID and I agree. Next to Reagan, Bush was the dumbest president in recent history. He got himself reelected by raising the terrorist threat level on a weekly basis, fear is a great motivator, or should I say manipulator. How many US citizens vote for republicans because they believe that republicans will prevent gay marriage? Bush was at the helm when the US was attacked by terrorist on 911. Bush invaded Iraq on the basis of trumpeted up phony evidence. If the US came under the jurisdiction of the International Court he would be tried as a war criminal. American's may be better educated but it doesn't seem to matter when it comes to voting against their own self interest. Just look at what all that education has produced. A country with an economy that came close to collapse just a few years ago and now is in danger of a complete meltdown. If I had a choice I think I will chose the common sense of the Thai's.

The Thai's are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves they just don't think like you do. I know that drugs were a huge problem in my wife's village before Taksin started his purge. The drug problem was eliminated overnight. The pensions for old people is an idea that has been raised since 1932 in Thailand. The Thai's in the village may not have ivy league degrees, but they do have common sense and they can see that the progress that the country is making is not benefiting them or their children. That is a normal response to the current situation.

I agree that the Army will have a stabilizing influence, but even they will not be able to stop this ground swell of expectations. This is all a direct result of the failure of the government to pay attention to all the people and not just the rich and connected. That seems pretty intelligent to me and I am educated.

[Roadman]

It never fails to amuse when very early on from the Thaksin chorus comes..."would you see the military interfering in a western countries politics?"

Ah duh!!!

This ain't a western country with democratic principles embedded and a police force capable of being the peoples everyday protector.

This is Thailand deep in South East Asia and surrounded by non democratic misfits, where criminals run amok in elected governance and the police force and juducial punishment is a joke, so the peoples everyday protector by default is the Army. And I don't have any qualms with the Army who at least know that their duty is to King, Country and People firing a politicial broadside at those over the last few weeks have been firing barbs at them. Poor little Pheu Thai dears, quick to give heat but fragile when it is applied back.

The rules are simple. Govern the country with democratic principles, leave the biggest criminal where he belongs and with no reason granted the Army can not interfer. The Army will not like Pheu Thai, but then that does not matter a crud.

[RogueExpat]

I honestly don't see what the problem is.

Prayuth is reminding everybody that if they (are naive enough to) vote in the same pattern, the result is going to be the same as the last couple of attempts, with the country left on hold, or moving backwards, just for the gain of a few individuals.

The usual suspects will end up with their grubby snouts in the trough from day dot, they will guzzle & guzzle until there is nothing left, and then they will go and borrow more leaving a huge clean up bill for those who have to fix the devastation. All the people who voted for them will happily be further in debt and vote for them again in the next bigger & better "debt relief" scheme.

Then those who are smart enough to see that they (and their children) are footing the bill will start to make some noise, and so on, and so on.

Good on you Prayuth for asking the general populace to remove the blinkers, and cast aside the spellbinding magic show courtesy of the Shinawatra grand marketing machine.

Edited June 16, 2011 by RogueExpat

[themockrat]

Why don't you just provide us with PROOF I'm sure TV will allow a link to FACTS. This could reduce my monthly costs by 1500 baht. so, give it to us.

Suggest that you read forum-rule 31, which prohibits quoting bangkokpost.com, we all find this constraining, but just have to live with it. Mai pen rai. :jap:

Also suggest you read my post #123, to see how Ms Yingluck proposes to increase the present monthly-rate, which she wouldn't do if the scheme didn't exist. Good luck in assisting your family-members.

My apologies, you are correct. My wife tells me that her grandparents do indeed recieve support from the government. She thinks it's 300baht each, but not sure.

300 Baht a month can't even pay for a 1-room apartment, not to mention food at what 10 Baht per day (300 / 30)? Meaning 3 Baht a meal. Can't remember any food vendors selling 3 Baht meals.

:jap:

[letitbe]

[

300 Baht a month can't even pay for a 1-room apartment, not to mention food at what 10 Baht per day (300 / 30)? Meaning 3 Baht a meal. Can't remember any food vendors selling 3 Baht meals.

:jap:

so youd rather they get nothing anyway its 600 baht I believe. I have a pension of about 150 US$ a month but im still happy to get something or do you think everyone should get 20,000 baht a month. Its a small start but i hope we never see the day when people here become totally welfare dependent as many are in the west hwich in time will completely bankrupt western countries.

[Buchholz]

The THB 500 / month is a fact.

Indeed, it is. It's good that any attempted contradictions at this have failed.

Rather amazing that those efforts are even attempted as this senior plan has been paying out for over a year and has been documented and written about, but hey, that doesn't stop the inevitable detractors.

.

[themockrat]

[

300 Baht a month can't even pay for a 1-room apartment, not to mention food at what 10 Baht per day (300 / 30)? Meaning 3 Baht a meal. Can't remember any food vendors selling 3 Baht meals.

:jap:

so youd rather they get nothing anyway its 600 baht I believe. I have a pension of about 150 US$ a month but im still happy to get something or do you think everyone should get 20,000 baht a month. Its a small start but i hope we never see the day when people here become totally welfare dependent as many are in the west hwich in time will completely bankrupt western countries.

Where did I say that they should rather get nothing? No, no ...my opinion is that they should get MORE. A lot more. Thailand isn't a poor 3rd world country. Thailand is richer than Denmark, Finland or Singapore. They should start taking care of their own people in the proper way.

[jayboy]

The THB 500 / month is a fact.

Indeed, it is. It's good that any attempted contradictions at this have failed.

Rather amazing that those efforts are even attempted as this senior plan has been paying out for over a year and has been documented and written about, but hey, that doesn't stop the inevitable detractors.

.

Actually as always if I am wrong, I'm prepared to admit it.This payment is indeed being made now as my Thai colleague informed me today.

He also told me it was a Thaksin initiative but has only recently been implemented.

[Buchholz]

The Democratic Party initiative, as said, has been paid for over a year.

[Buchholz]

Thailand isn't a poor 3rd world country. Thailand is richer than Denmark, Finland or Singapore. They should start taking care of their own people in the proper way.

Meanwhile, back in the realm of a reality-based world....

GDP per capita

5 digits :

US$56,147 Denmark

US$44,489 Finland

US$43,117 Singapore

and

4 digits :

US$4,992 Thailand

http://imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2011/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=40&pr.y=3&sy=2009&ey=2016&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C941%2C914%2C446%2C612%2C666%2C614%2C668%2C311%2C672%2C213%2C946%2C911%2C137%2C193%2C962%2C122%2C674%2C912%2C676%2C313%2C548%2C419%2C556%2C513%2C678%2C316%2C181%2C913%2C682%2C124%2C684%2C339%2C273%2C638%2C921%2C514%2C948%2C218%2C943%2C963%2C686%2C616%2C688%2C223%2C518%2C516%2C728%2C918%2C558%2C748%2C138%2C618%2C196%2C522%2C278%2C622%2C692%2C156%2C694%2C624%2C142%2C626%2C449%2C628%2C564%2C228%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636%2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C716%2C321%2C456%2C243%2C722%2C248%2C942%2C469%2C718%2C253%2C724%2C642%2C576%2C643%2C936%2C939%2C961%2C644%2C813%2C819%2C199%2C172%2C184%2C132%2C524%2C646%2C361%2C648%2C362%2C915%2C364%2C134%2C732%2C652%2C366%2C174%2C734%2C328%2C144%2C258%2C146%2C656%2C463%2C654%2C528%2C336%2C923%2C263%2C738%2C268%2C578%2C532%2C537%2C944%2C742%2C176%2C866%2C534%2C369%2C536%2C744%2C429%2C186%2C433%2C925%2C178%2C869%2C436%2C746%2C136%2C926%2C343%2C466%2C158%2C112%2C439%2C111%2C916%2C298%2C664%2C927%2C826%2C846%2C542%2C299%2C967%2C582%2C443%2C474%2C917%2C754%2C544%2C698&s=NGDPDPC&grp=0&a=

[letitbe]

[

300 Baht a month can't even pay for a 1-room apartment, not to mention food at what 10 Baht per day (300 / 30)? Meaning 3 Baht a meal. Can't remember any food vendors selling 3 Baht meals.

:jap:

so youd rather they get nothing anyway its 600 baht I believe. I have a pension of about 150 US$ a month but im still happy to get something or do you think everyone should get 20,000 baht a month. Its a small start but i hope we never see the day when people here become totally welfare dependent as many are in the west hwich in time will completely bankrupt western countries.

Where did I say that they should rather get nothing? No, no ...my opinion is that they should get MORE. A lot more. Thailand isn't a poor 3rd world country. Thailand is richer than Denmark, Finland or Singapore. They should start taking care of their own people in the proper way.

GDP per head i doubt it look up GDP per head on internet and learn a bit before posting nonsense

[rixalex]

Actually as always if I am wrong, I'm prepared to admit it.

That's good. And do you still stand by your comments about Yingluck? If i remember rightly, weren't the words you used "obviously intelligent" and "clearly capable", or something along those lines. Have a look at this interview, if you haven't already seen it, and tell me if you think here speaks an obviously intelligent and a clearly capable woman.

It's not what i see. What i see is someone with some very befuddled and confused ideas bouncing randomly around their head. And "no", this is not a language issue. Her English might well be poor, but this to my mind is the least of her problems - or should i say, the least of Thailand's problems, should she emerge victorious next month.

He also told me it was a Thaksin initiative but has only recently been implemented.

I think you'll agree though, something not implemented counts for little, much like the Dems claims that the 30 baht health care was their idea. Who cares really? It's easy to have great ideas, it's the putting them in place that is what counts.

[jayboy]

And do you still stand by your comments about Yingluck? If i remember rightly, weren't the words you used "obviously intelligent" and "clearly capable", or something along those lines. Have a look at this interview, if you haven't already seen it, and tell me if you think here speaks an obviously intelligent and a clearly capable woman.

Truth is we don't know that much about her but my initial favourable impression remains.Seems millions of Thai people share my views.Interesting that the previous American Ambassador spotted her strong potential some time ago, and I have earlier posted a fairly positive profile from the Economist.I'm not a paid up member of the fan club but she's having a good campaign compared to Abhisit and Korn, the latter rather surprisingly being particularly off form.

Frankly I wouldn't have bothered commenting on her at all were it not for the hateful and sexist comments , thankfully removed now, posted by one or two of the military cheerleaders.

As to your comments on the Bt 500 pension, I don't disagree.

[tommyboy928]

Poor General is worried he would be changed out if sister of the other thief get the power.

Scandalous, is anyone aware of any other democratic countries where the military head is so vociferous (I am talking about first world, not 3rd world banana republics).

He has said the army will remain neutral so why go against that with this press conference, I believe he said he was speaking in his position as a civilian (this was my understanding from television this morning) so why is he doing this in full military uniform, well to be fair, why is he doing this anyway? maybe he can see his job slipping away and maybe he can forsesse a full investigation into what happened last year under his command.

If anyone things the military do not run this country and thinks the army did not do a deal last year with the dems (even though abhisit admitted this last week that a deal was done) then they are sadly deluded.

Cue the cheerleaders now.

[hellodolly]

The THB 500 / month is a fact.

Indeed, it is. It's good that any attempted contradictions at this have failed.

Rather amazing that those efforts are even attempted as this senior plan has been paying out for over a year and has been documented and written about, but hey, that doesn't stop the inevitable detractors.

.

Beg to differ they are not detractors they are fabricator's. They learned it from there leader. When all else fails lie. The basis of the PT platform.

[hellodolly]

[

300 Baht a month can't even pay for a 1-room apartment, not to mention food at what 10 Baht per day (300 / 30)? Meaning 3 Baht a meal. Can't remember any food vendors selling 3 Baht meals.

:jap:

so youd rather they get nothing anyway its 600 baht I believe. I have a pension of about 150 US$ a month but im still happy to get something or do you think everyone should get 20,000 baht a month. Its a small start but i hope we never see the day when people here become totally welfare dependent as many are in the west hwich in time will completely bankrupt western countries.

Where did I say that they should rather get nothing? No, no ...my opinion is that they should get MORE. A lot more. Thailand isn't a poor 3rd world country. Thailand is richer than Denmark, Finland or Singapore. They should start taking care of their own people in the proper way.

Funny I don't remember that being said. All I saw was a knock on the pension. No reason given.

[80ojom]

The THB 500 / month is a fact.

I'm sorry but you are misinformed.

Yes i agree also, my fellow dutchman is a bit off the mark.

[jdinasia]

The THB 500 / month is a fact.

I'm sorry but you are misinformed.

Yes i agree also, my fellow dutchman is a bit off the mark.

I am amazed -- joined 14 minutes ago ... make one post --- and not only do you know a poster's nationality, you also get the facts wrong! The old age pension has been around for awhile now (over a year) -- but hey ...

[MrChangers]

The THB 500 / month is a fact.

I'm sorry but you are misinformed.

Yes i agree also, my fellow dutchman is a bit off the mark.

I am amazed -- joined 14 minutes ago ... make one post --- and not only do you know a poster's nationality, you also get the facts wrong! The old age pension has been around for awhile now (over a year) -- but hey ...

smelling something here too jd......

[MrChangers]

anyway back to the debate of the army jack booting the election result .....

[MrChangers]

Yes every month my mother in law receives one.:jap:

Sorry, but that is not proof.

It was not offered as proof it was in answer to a question. Show me the proof she does not. LOL

I did some research and found the following. I will not change one fact in it but I must rewrite it a little so as to not be copying from another source.

Ms Yingluck said if she should win the election that she would see to it that the elderly received more money. They would receive 600 baht per month for those in their 60s, 700 baht for those in their 70s, 800 baht to go to those in their 80s, and 1,000 baht to those who are 90 years old and more.

For those who want proof do as I did a previous poster said google this and follow the lead's.Ying luck and aid to the elderly. that is what I did.

PTP looks like a shoo in if you are in school you are going to get a free laptop if you own a taxi you get a credit card if you are working you get a raise taxes will go down and if you are over 60 your pension will be increased.

If they thought that it would help them they would also offer cheaper alcohol and lower costs on fulfilling your sexual desires with a person who earns there living doing that.

They would also tell you if you would believe it that all the money needed to accomplish there lofty goals was coming out of Thaksin's pocket not a satong of it from the tax payers.

Sadly because of the lack of education many of the voters will buy into there promises.

Well put especially about the lack of education.

[rubl]

The THB 500 / month is a fact.

I'm sorry but you are misinformed.

Yes i agree also, my fellow dutchman is a bit off the mark.

If I am a bit off the mark, please tell me how. An explanation would be nice (zelfs als 't van een andere Nederlander komt)

[hanuman1]

It never fails to amuse when very early on from the Thaksin chorus comes..."would you see the military interfering in a western countries politics?"

Ah duh!!!

This ain't a western country with democratic principles embedded and a police force capable of being the peoples everyday protector.

This is Thailand deep in South East Asia and surrounded by non democratic misfits, where criminals run amok in elected governance and the police force and juducial punishment is a joke, so the peoples everyday protector by default is the Army. And I don't have any qualms with the Army who at least know that their duty is to King, Country and People firing a politicial broadside at those over the last few weeks have been firing barbs at them. Poor little Pheu Thai dears, quick to give heat but fragile when it is applied back.

The rules are simple. Govern the country with democratic principles, leave the biggest criminal where he belongs and with no reason granted the Army can not interfer. The Army will not like Pheu Thai, but then that does not matter a crud.

This ain't a western country with democratic principles embedded and a police force capable of being the peoples everyday protector.

and then.....

The rules are simple. Govern the country with democratic principles, leave the biggest criminal where he belongs and with no reason granted the Army can not interfer.

I hope whichever political (or otherwise) player you are backing in this mess can put together a more coherent argument than this, rather then wasting people's time and bandwidth.

Edited June 16, 2011 by hanuman1

[smedly]

Scandalous, is anyone aware of any other democratic countries where the military head is so vociferous (I am talking about first world, not 3rd world banana republics).

He has said the army will remain neutral so why go against that with this press conference, I believe he said he was speaking in his position as a civilian (this was my understanding from television this morning) so why is he doing this in full military uniform, well to be fair, why is he doing this anyway? maybe he can see his job slipping away and maybe he can forsesse a full investigation into what happened last year under his command.

If anyone things the military do not run this country and thinks the army did not do a deal last year with the dems (even though abhisit admitted this last week that a deal was done) then they are sadly deluded.

Cue the cheerleaders now.

Exactly,... why is he in full military uniform and why is he allowed to comment in in the remotest manner on an election?

This guy worries me. He says he's neutral and respects democracy but he does so from the sidelines wearing full military dress and rattling a sabre! (General Guadaffi similarities?)

It just would not be allowed in any western country. He'd be relieved of his duties and probably be placed on charges.

Make no mistake,... the military of Thailand is perpetually poised and ready to take the reigns at any time they choose. Only takes one loose cannon and a fat enough cash stuffed envelope and its a done deal!

well although I don't agree with military getting involved in politics anywhere unfortunately they gave Thaksin his marching orders already for raping Thailand dry and if certain people in the population cannot see that for what it is blinded by small monetary enticements then they need to be governerned and steered the correct path, there are many things in thailand politics that would not be tolerated in any western society and Mr T plays them all and he has the money to do it, he sets himself up as a robin hood figure and that is how many thais see him, robin hood robbed the rich and gave to the poor - Mr T robbed the poor - gave a little back to get the vote, it is the most evil of all deeds to fill his own pockets to the brim - and he is still doing it from afar like it was some sort of game------what an evil man......lets not forget that Mr T left this country with so much money that 80% of Thai people wouldn't even understand how to count all the zero's, is thailand ready for democracy - well quite frankly - NO not when people like thaksin are around to buy a vote

[trisailer]

I honestly don't see what the problem is.

Prayuth is reminding everybody that if they (are naive enough to) vote in the same pattern, the result is going to be the same as the last couple of attempts, with the country left on hold, or moving backwards, just for the gain of a few individuals.

The usual suspects will end up with their grubby snouts in the trough from day dot, they will guzzle & guzzle until there is nothing left, and then they will go and borrow more leaving a huge clean up bill for those who have to fix the devastation. All the people who voted for them will happily be further in debt and vote for them again in the next bigger & better "debt relief" scheme.

Then those who are smart enough to see that they (and their children) are footing the bill will start to make some noise, and so on, and so on.

Good on you Prayuth for asking the general populace to remove the blinkers, and cast aside the spellbinding magic show courtesy of the Shinawatra grand marketing machine.

I don't think that the people are naive at all. There is in fact a huge disparity between those who benefit from the country's progress and those who don't. The naive one's are the leaders who have not given proper attention to this issue which has been simmering since the 1932 revolution. There are plenty of examples of developing country's around the world who are keeping out ahead of this issue and applying appropriate measures. The proper approach is more than just handing out money, it involves handing out hope for the future.

When the disparity in opportunity/hope between the have's and the have not's reaches critical mass the people, any people will become discontent and if ignored they will become unruly. The Thai people appear to be fed up with the meager leftovers they are being fed. All the while the rich, connected Thai's benefit the most. They are the one's that "have their grubby snouts in the trough."

What the rich Thai's (yellows) fail to realize is that there is a proper way to bring all the citizens along with the country's development, if they were smart about it. There are many examples of country's who seem to be doing just fine with that process in spite of huge global pressures to cave in to greed.

I assume that your talking about poor farmers guzzling until there is nothing left and then go borrow more and leave a huge clean up bill, with the country left on hold. All the farmers in Thailand could be paid to sit on their asses forever and the cost would not come close to the money that's wasted by the rich and the government and the false economy of corruption.

You should be more clear about who your talking about when describing unregulated greed destroying a country's economy. you could be misunderstood to be talking about the US who beginning with reagan sold the future of America to the highest bidder. When or if the fat, lazy, naive, American's get off their asses and decide to do something besides eat themselves to death you can be sure the US Army will be there to shoot them down like dogs.

[Ricardo]

Poor General is worried he would be changed out if sister of the other thief get the power.

Quite correct to worry, there is probably a member of the family, polishing his medals & boots in-readiness as we speak. Which would be fine, if you believe that the family is so very talented, that they are the best people to run the country long-term. Some of us don't.

The THB 500 / month is a fact.

I'm sorry but you are misinformed.

Yes i agree also, my fellow dutchman is a bit off the mark.

Welcome to the new poster who, if he/she cares to read the last few pages of this thread, will see that it's already been shown that there is indeed a government pension-scheme in-place, paying 500B/month, so his maiden-post is simply wrong !

[animatic]

Saying you will do it, or that it should be done,

is not nearly as affective as actually doing it for the first time.

[Buchholz]

The THB 500 / month is a fact.

Indeed, it is. It's good that any attempted contradictions at this have failed.

Rather amazing that those efforts are even attempted as this senior plan has been paying out for over a year and has been documented and written about, but hey, that doesn't stop the inevitable detractors.

Beg to differ they are not detractors they are fabricator's. They learned it from there leader. When all else fails lie. The basis of the PT platform.

Can't say I would refute your noun usage as the more accurate description.

The latest forum joiner to dispute it in the discussion is not much different than the long-termers did earlier.

.