Elected Village Leaders Could Lead To 'Disintegration Of Thailand'

[webfact]

Elected village leaders could lead to 'disintegration of the country'

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Any attempt by a future government to abolish the system of the Interior Ministry appointing village representatives up to provincial level - and replacing it with the election of local leaders - will be vehemently opposed, the influential Governing Officer Association of Thailand (GOAT) said yesterday.

GOAT, composed of both retired and serving members of the Interior Ministry, claims the Kingdom will "disintegrate" if local people who are "not ready" are allowed to choose their own village headmen, district chiefs and governors.

They also believe it is not appropriate to decide on the matter through a nationwide referendum. That idea was first floated by the now-dissolved National Reform Commission, whose head, former premier Anand Panyarachun, was appointed by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

"A referendum is for [approving] the constitution," Prayoon Promphan, vice president of GOAT, told the media.

"There is no need [for a referendum] whatsoever. The next government should review the matter. Thailand does not need to follow other nations."

Kamol Prachaubmor, the association's president, admitted there's a need to reform the system to make these Bangkok-appointed officials more responsive and clean.

"We need a major overhaul," he said.

However, this does not mean jettisoning the system of the powerful Interior Ministry appointing its own officials, he added.

Lt-General Surasak Karnjanarat, director of the Army's Centre for Mass Relations and Information, was invited to speak at the panel organised yesterday by GOAT and said his commander, Army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha, shares the view of the association.

Surasak warned that Thailand would disintegrate and be replaced by "many pockets of small states" if governors were elected along with others like village headmen.

Yongyos Kaewkiew, president of the Village Headman and Kamnan Association of Thailand, said such a proposal was akin to hurting Thailand.

"It will speed up the disintegration of this society," he said.

The Democrat Party should be blamed for appointing Anand to eventually make such a proposal, which is now a bill waiting to be considered by Parliament, he said.

"It's shameless," he added.

The National Reform Commission had said that the time for local people to be able to determine their own future and protect their own local resources and interests is now, and this can be accomplished through a major decentralisation push.

-- The Nation 2011-06-16

[BigRick]

Always that pesky democracy trying to replace cronyism. How is a corrupt official suppose to live if they can't sell the positions!

[otherstuff1957]

This is absurd. Thailand needs to start electing officials from the bottom rungs of government to the top.

[lannarebirth]

Given that many many villages across Thailand are dominated by single families a change would certainly lead to fiefdoms under color of democracy. Still, they need to find a way to move in that direction. Maybe at the Khumnan level, which covers a greater territory.

Edited June 16, 2011 by lannarebirth

[toybits]

Interesting. Wery wery interesting....

[geriatrickid]

Interior Ministery bureaucrats are afraid of losing power. Too bad. PM Abhisit was right on this one.

[bushwacker]

Absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

[WhizBang]

 Wow, the Interior Ministry must be having nightmares of power (and money) slipping from their grasp.

If Thailand is to progress at all, then decentralizing power out of Bangkok and putting an end to all these appointed positions must come to an end.

[animatic]

Big surprise, the old GOATS don't want village elections.

[samurai]

Interior Ministery bureaucrats are afraid of losing power. Too bad. PM Abhisit was right on this one.

Abhisit did nothing except to appoint the head of some commission who came up with some ideas and to appoint the bureaucrats and army generals who don't like these ideas.

[Payboy]

if local people who are "not ready" are allowed to choose

Now, where have I heard that before?

[scorecard]

Interior Ministery bureaucrats are afraid of losing power. Too bad. PM Abhisit was right on this one.

I'm very hesitant to use the 'elites' word, but it certainly comes to mind here.

[slapout]

Start with this group and include the Governors and the police departs and bingo you have found a way out of the present system which everyone seems to agree is corrupt. Granted there will be some corrupt officials elected, but under this system, they will be stealing from those who elected them and are subject to the scrutiny of the electorate. Of course those who have been and are jockeying for a plum position under present practices, would oppose this as it would eliminate a daisy chain that they covet.

[virtualtraveller]

New election, new government, all change please. And thus we have a country of musical chairs and the incumbent will always have the advantage in an election since they have appointed the village headmen, and they wonder why democracy is a mess here.

[OzMick]

Are the the govt officers not aware of the negative connotation of their acronym?

[OzMick]

Interior Ministery bureaucrats are afraid of losing power. Too bad. PM Abhisit was right on this one.

Abhisit did nothing except to appoint the head of some commission who came up with some ideas and to appoint the bureaucrats and army generals who don't like these ideas.

If you apply some punctuation and restructure your sentence, we may be able to make sense of this comment. Well, at least in the sense of understanding what you are trying to say.

[samurai]

Interior Ministery bureaucrats are afraid of losing power. Too bad. PM Abhisit was right on this one.

Abhisit did nothing except to appoint the head of some commission who came up with some ideas and to appoint the bureaucrats and army generals who don't like these ideas.

If you apply some punctuation and restructure your sentence, we may be able to make sense of this comment. Well, at least in the sense of understanding what you are trying to say.

Abhisit appointed the head of the National Reform Commission.

Abhisit appointed the GOAT member and the Army chief General.

The National Reform Commission had a creative moment and comes up with some fancy idea.

The GOAT member and the Army chief General say that idea is full of goat sh BS.

Geriaticfarang says Abhisit was right on this.

[samurai]

Are the the govt officers not aware of the negative connotation of their acronym?

Negative?

That depends probably on your language, cultural background and your own personal experiences with Capra aegagrus hircus, and maybe some lovely memories broken heart

[slapout]

I can see some real steps to eliminate corruption if the idea is followed thru on. Start someplace and then expand the idea to get the people more involved in the process. The experience level of those elected may not be as vast in some areas as those who are appointed, but that is probably the goal of the proposal.

[warfie]

Terrible idea... I mean, we can't have the people actually having any say in who their leader is, can we now?

[DeepInTheForest]

My first inclination is to give a blanket condemnation to this statement by GOAT.

But you also have to be mindful that local strongmen can sometimes effectively control elections via intimidation, favors, control of profitable businesses-- the usual machine politics. So there has to be some kind of way to ensure that local leaders aren't running a corrupt fiefdom. I don't have any answers. I think Thailand is certainly in need of more democracy. How to get there... ? Perhaps it is indeed time for local elections, and we will have to live with some districts that are not above-board, if the majority are honest and workable.

Democracy is a tricky business. I have never experienced it, though I hail from a "modern democracy".

[slapout]

One of the lower states in the US was widely known for corruption back in the mid 20th century. The county commissioners (elected locally) were as involved ans any. They were in charge of local road upkeep, etc. Those who elected them in a couple cases decided enough was enough, so they were reported to State legal enforcement branch. The investigation continued from the original 2 complaints to include all 77 counties. In total 75 county commissioners were found guilty of charges and jailed. The 2 found not guilty had not been in office long enough to get on the gravy train.

This was the first step in the states/peoples fight against corruption and it worked, in that the investigations continued upward and the final result, although not perfect, returns in large part, to the taxpayer, what he paid for.

[thaihome]

I guess nobody bothered to actually check the facts in OP. Phuyaibans are elected by voters in the village to a 5 year term. The winner of the election is then appointed by the Interior Ministry. Rarely are the results of the election not confirmed by the Ministry. The Interior Ministry then appoints one of the Phuyaibans as the kamnan of the sub district. There is also an elected TAO that these days wield more local power then the phuyaibans or the kamnans.

This article is typical of the half truths and propaganda that attempts to show the supposed lack of democracy. The actual issue, which the Abisit appointed reform committee did recommend, was that the provincial governors be elected.

TH

[samurai]

This article is typical of the half truths and propaganda that attempts to show the supposed lack of democracy. The actual issue, which the Abisit appointed reform committee did recommend, was that the provincial governors be elected.

TH

Yes, and the proposal is now a bill waiting to be considered by Parliament.

That is a problem. The National Reform Commission were given some creative freedom. So they came up with that idea.

It wouldn't have made it with the centralist and autocratic Democrats leading the government.

But they fnorked up the timing. Now the bill is going to be considered by a different parliament and a different party leading and dominating. A party that is more open to decentralisation. So the proposal might made it what was never really intended by Abhisit when he appointed the commission.

Edited June 17, 2011 by samurai

[thaihome]

This article is typical of the half truths and propaganda that attempts to show the supposed lack of democracy. The actual issue, which the Abisit appointed reform committee did recommend, was that the provincial governors be elected.

TH

Yes, and the proposal is now a bill waiting to be considered by Parliament.

That is a problem. The National Reform Commission were given some creative freedom. So they came up with that idea.

It wouldn't have made it with the centralist and autocratic Democrats leading the government.

But they fnorked up the timing. Now the bill is going to be considered by a different parliament and a different party leading and dominating. A party that is more open to decentralisation. So the proposal might made it what was never really intended by Abhisit when he appointed the commission.

If the PTP does form the new government, do you honestly think their choice of Interior Minister (does the name Sanoh ring any bells for you?) is going to support giving up the power to appoint the provincial governors?

You are living in la-la land, my friend and have a very rude awakening coming…

TH

[hhiser]

Please let this referendum pass. My village headman is a complete nutter.

[GooEng]

Are the the govt officers not aware of the negative connotation of their acronym?

yeah, and it always surprises me when polititians at this level in thailand will come out and say something as brazenly and transparently anti-democratic and aimed at protecting their own largely financial interests ..... doesn't show a very high level of political sophistication, does it? goats indeed!

Edited June 17, 2011 by joe ekkamai

[samurai]

This article is typical of the half truths and propaganda that attempts to show the supposed lack of democracy. The actual issue, which the Abisit appointed reform committee did recommend, was that the provincial governors be elected.

TH

Yes, and the proposal is now a bill waiting to be considered by Parliament.

That is a problem. The National Reform Commission were given some creative freedom. So they came up with that idea.

It wouldn't have made it with the centralist and autocratic Democrats leading the government.

But they fnorked up the timing. Now the bill is going to be considered by a different parliament and a different party leading and dominating. A party that is more open to decentralisation. So the proposal might made it what was never really intended by Abhisit when he appointed the commission.

If the PTP does form the new government, do you honestly think their choice of Interior Minister (does the name Sanoh ring any bells for you?) is going to support giving up the power to appoint the provincial governors?

You are living in la-la land, my friend and have a very rude awakening coming…

TH

So why the panic that the bill goes to the parliament? Why comes Army chief General Prayuth forward and declares he is against it?

[lannarebirth]

Big surprise, the old GOATS don't want village elections.

In a village where i own land, 7 million Baht was budgeted last year for an irrigation canal project. The Puyai Baan himself told me that the cost of completing the project (poorly) was 600,000 Baht. The Puyai Baan, the Or Bor Tor, The Khamnan spit the rest. Every Democrat sign that was posted in this village has been torn down or defaced. It's an interesting fact about Thai peasants,that they seem to be proud of the fact that their Puyai Baan and Khamnan are able to live in nice homes, drive nice cars and send their children to good schools. I don't get it myself. Cultural differences I guess.

[Puccini]

I guess nobody bothered to actually check the facts in OP. Phuyaibans are elected by voters in the village to a 5 year term. The winner of the election is then appointed by the Interior Ministry. Rarely are the results of the election not confirmed by the Ministry. The Interior Ministry then appoints one of the Phuyaibans as the kamnan of the sub district. There is also an elected TAO that these days wield more local power then the phuyaibans or the kamnans.

This article is typical of the half truths and propaganda that attempts to show the supposed lack of democracy. The actual issue, which the Abisit appointed reform committee did recommend, was that the provincial governors be elected.

TH

Thank you for this very useful clarification.