Ex-Premier Thaksin Return To Thailand Not Possible: Deputy PM Suthep

[OZEMADE]

I just read in another paper, that PTP may when they get in, start a Committee for Victims of Injustice. Now I know how he will be coming to the wedding.

I did say a few minutes ago he would be back one way or another. Can't say I didn't tell you so.

[OzMick]

I just read in another paper, that PTP may when they get in, start a Committee for Victims of Injustice. Now I know how he will be coming to the wedding.

I did say a few minutes ago he would be back one way or another. Can't say I didn't tell you so.

I can imagine that he might appear before such a Committee, but only as the accused.

[matador007]

What ??!!!

He's only facing 2 years of jail and he is in exile for that ??

I know and have heard all about the conditions of Thai Jails, but surely he can do his 2 years and move on in his life from there.

I wouldn't be on the run from my home country for a piddly 2 years... I could understand people facing life sentences, and otherwise lengthy jail sentences.

Also I think he might come out better (more popular? greater support?) with his followers -- as a man who took his punishment, not run away from it.

Real sad all this for only 2 years, if thats all it is.

[AleG]

Every now and then I ask myself, what kind of person could possibly support Thaksin...

Suit yourself. The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes run by a "friend"...

...so far I haven't been impressed by the moral fiber of his supporters.

[trisailer]

you wouldn't get me investing in such a corruptly run business.

Suit yourself. The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes run by a "friend" How do YOU think people get rich? Through honest investing? How's your not investing in corrupt business working out for you? Most profitable business has a little bit of corruption going for it.

Building the better mouse trap, writing the book that resonates,

being able to connect with people and sell, or just being in the right place at the right time with the right product.

Not all rich got rich through, Pyramid schemes that rip off the late entrants, , sweetheart back room deals and kickbacks, abusing the very people you are pretending to help, and general immoral actions.

That is the style of the amoral businessman, or plain criminal.

I actually do agree with you the the goal should be to profit from legitimate business that benefits me and my employees.

As it happened I had the opportunity to get in early and get out before the inevitable collapse. You do know that the attraction to those sort of things is greed right...?

I did quite well. I also did well at legitimate business and in that process I treated my employees fairly and allow them to share in the benefits of my success.

So, how do you square your idea of "not abusing the very people your pretending to help" with the current rampant greed that is destroying the worlds economy and thus millions of peoples lives in the process. Do you think it's ok that CEO's earn billions off the toil of workers who are then discarded? Do you think that is moral? What is the difference?

Maybe you need a reality check if you think that most businesses are moral and ethical and do not destroy peoples lives for short term profit because that's not what I see happening.

[trisailer]

" I'm a poker player not an intellectual............... democracy is a failing social system............"

The greatest minds of the last 20 centuries have decided that democracy, while not perfect, is the best system devised so far, but we should take your word for it that it's stuffed. And as

"The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes............" I gather that you're not even much of a poker player. You do seem to have an affection for criminals though.

Just which minds are you referring to? Last time I checked on the last 20 century's every society on the planet was/is autocratic. 98% of the world never heard of democracy until about 300 years ago and even today over half the world is ruled by autocrats. Greece and Rome weren't even real democracy's. Democracy is far from"the best system devised so far" It never would have arose at all if not for poor leadership by the autocrats and furthermore it isn't even democracy when certain leaders control the message which manipulates people to vote for them against their own self interest. It is more like psychological autocracy. At best democracy is a social experiment and not the best system and you have been brainwashed.

Yes I do have an affection for criminals and so do most people. They are usually interesting characters. Virtually every town has statues of people who were considered criminals in their own time. Millions of books have been sold because most people are intreagued by them. If your suggesting that you have never broken a law or lied or done anything unethical than I suggest that you put yourself in for sainthood.

The world moves on leadership regardless of the system. The democratic systems that are successful are so because the voters are informed and have a clear view of their objectives or they have a leader who has a clear view of what is best for them. Democracy is a theory except in a few places where it does seem to be working. It relies on the determination of the voters to "stick to the plan" which few humans seem willing to do. Even George Washington was offered the position of King by the "revolutionaries" who just got done throwing off another King. People want/need leadership.

The best system is an autocracy. The worst system is also an autocracy. The issue isn't the system so much as the leaders involved. The best leaders of democracy's have been autocrats by virtue of their ability to get things done. Try to sail a ship by committee or fight a war, or run a company. Look at Apple under Steve Jobs leadership and compare that to what it was without him. Capitalism runs on autocracies, as it should. Do you let your children have a vote in how your money is spent? How about your Thai family? If democrocy is so great it shoud be great applied everywhere. Right?

A perfect example of my point is if it is so good than why don't you run your own company as a democrocy? How about your family? Why wouldn't every orgainization in the world seek democratic rule? You see how you have been brainwashed? You can't even see the difference in the logic of how it cannot work for your company and it is not working for most governments.

Edited June 18, 2011 by trisailer

[zthyadat]

"Speaking to reporters in his capacity as Democrat Party secretary-general, Mr Suthep said it is not possible for Mr Thaksin to return home, otherwise he would in effect be the only Thai who is above the law, that is the judgement of the courts."

What a joke ! As the wikileaks site shows, the laws have been modified after the coup to justify the coup and to find Mr Thaksin guilty of corruption. He can't be convicted for breaching a law that didn't exist at the time he was PM.

Please check here : http://en.wikipedia....i/Retroactivity

Thaksin is not above of the law, he is a victim of a law that has been corrupted by the coup makers and their appointed government.

Wikileaks documents are now available, check for yourself.

Oh yes, Thaksin is a "victim" if ever I saw one... Clean as a whistle, unjustly convicted.

[ableguy]

Wow, a lot of passion here for a bunch who can't vote.

I started out thinking that Abhist was my preference because he's a pretty smart guy, but it is clear that he is not acceptable to the majority of Thai's. Furthermore I think he botched the red demonstrations in BKK and his lack of leadership facilitated that terrible outcome. It's great to have intelligence, but politics is a dirty business and it's about using power intelligently. If his inability to control the red mob in BKK is any indication of his abilities what will he do with the social unrest that will occur if he is elected?

Thaksin is a bad guy, but he has a proven record of managing things that need to be managed. I think that foreign investors won't care who is elected as long as the country doesn't explode into chaos.

Bottom line; I don't care who gets elected as long as they keep a grip on the country's stability and keep things rolling along.

I spent my passion on Obama and he's been a disappointment.

Have you ever stopped to think that lots of the 90 or so deaths could have been carried out under his orders by his armed thugs the men in black for the simple reason they could then blame the current administration, dont forget he has so much blood on his hands whats a few more?? he has no respect for life like most Thais ( go for me bashers ) life or death is cheap here.

[whybother]

Thaksin will be back and go to Gaol.

Thaksin will be back and be pardoned.

Thaksin will be back and pardoned by amnesty.

Thaksin will be back and be wearing an ankle bracelet at home.

One way or another he will be back, so I don't know what all the fuss is about.

There is no way Thaksin will come back if there is the slightest chance that he will go to jail.

[ableguy]

What ??!!!

He's only facing 2 years of jail and he is in exile for that ??

I know and have heard all about the conditions of Thai Jails, but surely he can do his 2 years and move on in his life from there.

I wouldn't be on the run from my home country for a piddly 2 years... I could understand people facing life sentences, and otherwise lengthy jail sentences.

Also I think he might come out better (more popular? greater support?) with his followers -- as a man who took his punishment, not run away from it.

Real sad all this for only 2 years, if thats all it is.

The problem is my friend you do not have his warped mind so pointless comparing yourself.

[animatic]

Even if he comes back in some form or another the people are not just going to breath a sigh of relief, their going to expect results and I have no doubt that if they don't get them they will continue to seek them by whatever means they chose.

I can't say with any certainty that Thaksin will fix everything, but he will buy some breathing room and he is probably the best guy to "convince" the real power in Thailand that they need to "share the wealth." I'm a poker player not an intellectual. I look at the odds and the best odds for stability is the reds getting a shot. Conveniently it is also the most likely outcome.

I think that many of you are basing your views on what you have been taught to think; that democracy is good, socialism is bad, etc. If you think objectively you must see that democracy is a failing social system because it cannot react fast enough to the changing times.

" I'm a poker player not an intellectual............... democracy is a failing social system............"

The greatest minds of the last 20 centuries have decided that democracy, while not perfect, is the best system devised so far, but we should take your word for it that it's stuffed. And as

"The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes............" I gather that you're not even much of a poker player. You do seem to have an affection for criminals though.

Part of the reason Democracy the, concept is said to work, is just precisely the lag time of accepting change. So that temporary trends don't radically skew the system, and screw individuals, only to change back soon there after. It modulates the tyranny of the majority.

Most of the time this works well, times like 'Post 9/11' is one of those times a sea change in public perceptions, caused a radicle shift in democratic functioning. Generally Democracy modulates that well.

The Democratic functioning under the peoples Constitution was intended to be more immune to the whims and machinations of the society and it's leaders. It proved signally not up to the job, noting how easily Thaksin was able to circumvent it's checks and balances. The 2007 seems to potentially be better, noting the full court press of Team Thaksin to repeal it... it must HURT his aims significantly.

IMHO the coups have been the result of Thailands inability to

create a working bullet proof constitution from scratch and / or

modify existing ones to correct the mistakes, without writing in new ones just as bad.

3 parts to why.

1 ) it is cultural, the society has not previously dealt with the speed of communications and integration in the world economy. Wealth came in, and created more wealth, but this was grafted on top of ancient kow tow cultural systems, and the culture hasn't caught up.

2 ) The nature of kow tow systems exalts the wealthy and powerful over any less wealthy and powerful, add to this a schooling system that both reinforces this unquestioning, blind respect, and obedience to the wealthy, and also teaches them NOT to get out of line or believe any but 'Thai people and Thai culture', are by far the best on earth.

So they can't consider borrowing a constitution or proven workable parts of other cultures legal systems. It's just not Thai, so can't be as good.

3 ) the political culture has grown into a period of great cash inflows, but hasn't developed as fast as the communications cultures,

and thus many see greater gaps and injustices than in several other cultures.

So certain segments using the kow tow organizational methods, or feudalist control methods, try to manipulate the people who are marginally connected to much greater communications, but not fully into greater improvements in their lives or educations and opportunities.

So, we have the kow tow methods used to control communications and control power distribution, using the disaffected as pawns, by the exact same power structure that has locally and regionally KEPT them pawns of the political structure, which is tied directly to kow tow feudal controls of the masses and profiteering.

So we have a country that can only look through a narrow lens at how to create a constitution, while worshiping those who have power as if this were true leadership, and all this caught in a cultural time warp fighting between it's arch nationalist indoctrination arriving at it's nadir, and a new neo socialist or communist indoctrination used by a cynical neo-capitalist / kow tow leadership, for a new ascending power block, as a changing of the old guard systems is imminent.

Of course one force wants to move forward systematically, not a throwing out the baby with bathwater rush, and the other side wants to install it's tentacles and levers into positions of power to take over during the coming change.

And both wants to create a constitution that fits these long term goals, and their methods are both subtle and ham-fisted.

The democracy is not working well enough here partly because, so many of those that have drawn it up historically, don't properly understand it's functioning, and it's functioning in relation to their culture and ALL cultures, and the differences between those cultures takes on Democracy.

Sadly they seem to mostly throw it out and write again from scratch, rather than adjust and massage and observe from perviously existing and well tried systems.

Breathing room is the last thing Thaksin will be buying by the way.

He may be from the younger generation relatively, but he is firmly a child of the Chinese / Kow Tow/ 100 year dynastic family culture, while using modern cultural and communications methods, grafted to kow tow manipulation of society, to himself win power.

Face, power and money creating both, being the goals to satisfy his ego and need for supremacy. He may get back in control of a party in government, but he can't control his need to CONTROL.

Share the wealth... LOL.

when has Thaksin shared his wealth...

surely not by paying his taxes,

or not cheating via proxies and family shills.

surely not by re-writing laws to benefit HIS clan and no one else.

Democracy is not his aim, it is just his tool.

Democracy is not perfect, but it is much better than the other systems man has tried, which explains why in the long run it HAS been more successful, if not in every corner of every land in synchronicity. Some places take longer for it to become part of the culture and to take over from time dishonored ways, such as kow tow.

China took one path to leave kow tow, but we are seeing that path proving to be a 'red herring', as the current riots attest. Half a democracy is not democracy, as Thailand is also discovering for different reasons. Leading Thailand down China's path decades after it's clear that is a false way, will not benefit the poor,

just switch one elite for another and mismanage the society till the next cultural blow up.

Edited June 18, 2011 by animatic

[noahvail]

What ??!!!

He's only facing 2 years of jail and he is in exile for that ??

I know and have heard all about the conditions of Thai Jails, but surely he can do his 2 years and move on in his life from there.

I wouldn't be on the run from my home country for a piddly 2 years... I could understand people facing life sentences, and otherwise lengthy jail sentences.

Also I think he might come out better (more popular? greater support?) with his followers -- as a man who took his punishment, not run away from it.

Real sad all this for only 2 years, if thats all it is.

The problem is my friend you do not have his warped mind so pointless comparing yourself.

Well, don't forget he's also facing 5 additional charges upon his return. The court can't proceed on these new charges until he returns. So it's a bit more than just the 2 years.

[OzMick]

Even if he comes back in some form or another the people are not just going to breath a sigh of relief, their going to expect results and I have no doubt that if they don't get them they will continue to seek them by whatever means they chose.

I can't say with any certainty that Thaksin will fix everything, but he will buy some breathing room and he is probably the best guy to "convince" the real power in Thailand that they need to "share the wealth." I'm a poker player not an intellectual. I look at the odds and the best odds for stability is the reds getting a shot. Conveniently it is also the most likely outcome.

I think that many of you are basing your views on what you have been taught to think; that democracy is good, socialism is bad, etc. If you think objectively you must see that democracy is a failing social system because it cannot react fast enough to the changing times.

" I'm a poker player not an intellectual............... democracy is a failing social system............"

The greatest minds of the last 20 centuries have decided that democracy, while not perfect, is the best system devised so far, but we should take your word for it that it's stuffed. And as

"The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes............" I gather that you're not even much of a poker player. You do seem to have an affection for criminals though.

Part of the reason Democracy the, concept is said to works is just precisely the lag time of accepting change. So that temporary trends don'y radically skew the system, and screw individuals, only to change back soon their after. Most of the time this works well, times like Post 9/11 is one of those times a sea change in public perceptions caused a radicle shift in democratic functioning. The Democratic functioning under the peoples Constitution was intended to be more immune to the whims and machinations of the society and it's leaders. It proved signally not up to the job, noting how easily Thaksin was able to circumvent it's checks and balances.

IMHO the coups have been the result of Thailands inability to

create a working bullet proof constitution from scratch and / or

modify existing ones to correct the mistakes, without writing in new ones just as bad.

3 Parts to why.

1 ) it is cultural, the society has not dealt with the speed of communications and integration in the world economy.

Wealth came in, and created more wealth, but this was grafted on top of ancient kow tow cultural systems.

2 ) The nature of kow tow systems exalts the wealthy and powerful over any less wealthy and powerful,

add to this a schooling system that both reinforces this unquestioning blind respect and obedience to the wealthy,

and also teaches them NOT to get out of line or believe any but Thai people and Thai culture, are by far the best on earth

So they can't consider borrowing a constitution or proven workable parts of other cultures legal systems.

It's just not Thai, so can't be as good.

3 ) the political culture has grown into a period of great cash inflows, but hasn't developed as fast as the communications cultures,

and thus many see greater gaps and injustices than in several other cultures. So certain segments using the kow tow organizational methods, or feudalist control methods, try to manipulate the people who are not connected to much greater communications, but not greater improvements in their lives or educations and opportunities. So, we have the kow tow methods used to control communications and control power distribution, using the disaffected as pawns, by the exact same power structure that has locally and regionally KEPT them pawns of the political structure, which is tied directly to kow tow feudal controls of the masses.

So we have a country that can only look through a narrow lens at how to create a constitution,

while worshiping those who have power as if this were true leadership,

and all this caught in a cultural time warp fighting between it's arch nationalist indoctrination

and a new indoctrination for a new power block arrives at it's nadir,

as a changing of the old guard systems is on it's accent.

Of course one force wants to move forward systematically, now throwing out the baby with bathwater,

and the other side wants to install it'sm tentacles and levers into positions of power

to take over during the coming change. And both wants to create a constitution that fits these long term goals,

and their methods are both subtle and ham-fisted.

The democracy is not working because so many of those that have drawn it up historically,

don't properly understand it's functioning, and it's functioning in relation to their culture and ALL cultures,

ands the differences between those cultures takes on Democracy. Sadly they seem to mostly throw it out

and write again from scratch, rather than adjust and massage and observe from perviously existing and well tried systems.

Breathing room is the last thing Thaksin will be buying by the way.

He may be from the yo8unger generation relatively by he is firmly a child of the CHinese Kow Tow culture,

using modern cultural methods to grafted to kow tow manipulation of society, win power.

Face, power and money creating both, being the goals to satisfy his ego and need for supremacy.

He may get back in control of a party in government, but he can't control his need to CONTROL.

Share the wealth... LOL.

when has Thaksin shared his wealth... surely not by paying his taxes,

or not cheating via proxies and family shills.

Democracy is not his aim, it is just his tool.

Democracy is not perfect, but it is much better than the4 other systems man has tried,

which explains why in the long run it HAS been more successful, if not in ever corner of every land.

Some places take longer for it to become part of the culture and to take over from time dishonored ways,

such as kow tow. China took one path to leave kow tow, but we are seeing that path proving to be a 'red herring',

as the current riots attest. Half a democracy is not democracy, as Thailand is also discovering for different reasons.

Leading Thailand down China's path decades after it's clear that is a false way, will not benefit the poor,

just switch one elite for another and mismanage the society till the next cultural blow up.

Well said that man!

[rubl]

begin removed ...

A perfect example of my point is if it is so good than why don't you run your own company as a democrocy? How about your family? Why wouldn't every orgainization in the world seek democratic rule? You see how you have been brainwashed? You can't even see the difference in the logic of how it cannot work for your company and it is not working for most governments.

In my company I have a financial stake which gives me more say than others. In a democracy all people have a stake in the country and it's parliament (and cabinet if the party they voted for is in there). That gives the people a say in things. That doesn't mean a personal, direct say, but a say via appropriate channels. In a democracy there's a lot of talking, but that doesn't mean it wrong, or shouldn't be done because it slows things down

Edited June 18, 2011 by rubl

[animatic]

What ??!!!

He's only facing 2 years of jail and he is in exile for that ??

I know and have heard all about the conditions of Thai Jails, but surely he can do his 2 years and move on in his life from there.

I wouldn't be on the run from my home country for a piddly 2 years... I could understand people facing life sentences, and otherwise lengthy jail sentences.

Also I think he might come out better (more popular? greater support?) with his followers -- as a man who took his punishment, not run away from it.

Real sad all this for only 2 years, if thats all it is.

The problem is my friend you do not have his warped mind so pointless comparing yourself.

Well, don't forget he's also facing 5 additional charges upon his return. The court can't proceed on these new charges until he returns. So it's a bit more than just the 2 years.

Hey Noah, long time no see!

[trisailer]

Have you ever stopped to think that lots of the 90 or so deaths could have been carried out under his orders by his armed thugs the men in black for the simple reason they could then blame the current administration, don't forget he has so much blood on his hands whats a few more?? he has no respect for life like most Thais ( go for me bashers ) life or death is cheap here.

No I haven't stopped to think about the people that he has had killed and likely will have killed in the future, but I have stopped to think about the millions who have been killed by so called democratic societies in their attempts to democratize the world (and thus make them consumers of their products) I have thought about the secret "war" on Laos that murdered tens of thousands of people in the name of democracy. I also think about daily about the veteran's of these wars who are killing themselves because we have a policy to send them to war but inadequate resources to prevent them from killing themselves when the get back. In the US over 300,000 people die from the lack of access to medical care every year, 458 die of liver failure just from mixing paracetamol with alcohol. Does that sound like people value life to you?

I also think about the lives that are lost or ruined by the failed economic policies of the west, it is well into the millions.

I could go on but I think you get the point.

Life is cheap everywhere. Do you seriously believe what your saying?

Thaksin probably did knock off a bunch of people, but I have no doubts that while he was doing it the other side was trying to knock him off. Wake up and smell the coffee. This is humans being humans because we haven't figured out how to operate these big brains yet.

[animatic]

The coffee is fresh and Thaksin is not doing anything to be altruistic,

to believe otherwise is fantasy land.

Democracy has never been installed to create consumerism,

regardless of companies will take an opportunity to profit where they can.

Laos was a tragedy, but was intended to prevent another exported Maoist Cultural Revolution, which as certainly not proved a success in China. I was not for the war by the way, I just understand the why aprt of it. Oh my, think of the trade that war has brought the USA from Laos... Zip.

I find it curious you have no problem profiting from pyramid schemes,

but decry Democracy as failed, but the shoot guys running pyramid schemes in China....

Somethings missing in your general outlook.

Perhaps time for a self induced internal mental keel hauling.

Edited June 18, 2011 by animatic

[unanimosity]

Agree with you, a slip of tongue

He never intended to say "million", just 65, the number of people who support the democrats

You seem to be under the misapprehension that for one to find the idea of a convicted criminal being able to get off from serving time unacceptable, one must also be a Democrat supporter. The two do not go hand in hand. All that is required is a belief in that nobody is above the law. A belief that PTP supporters clearly do not share.

Yet you cannot see that the very people that removed him from office, and have removed other elected parties from office in the past four elections, put themselves above the law by staging a coup and rewriting the constitution? So you are saying if it benefits you it is okay and that rewriting the law to advance your agenda is not wrong?

[fritter1970]

Dodgy Thaksin versus Oxford educated PM? Let's smoke this goose Thaksin and move on......

[trisailer]

In my company I have a financial stake which gives me more say than others. In a democracy all people have a stake in the country and it's parliament (and cabinet if the party they voted for is in there). That gives the people a say in things. That doesn't mean a personal, direct say, but a say via appropriate channels. In a democracy there's a lot of talking, but that doesn't mean it wrong, or shouldn't be done because it slows things down

In your company you have a financial stake which gives you more say than others. It appears to me that is also the case with governments. People with more money have more say, which is exactly why citizens around the world "thought" democrocy would be better. Unfortunatly the rich are back controlling things and the citizens can go screw themselves.

I understand what your saying and yes governments can't talk to everyone, but you can. You can make your business democratic if it is such a wonderful system and it will make your business better, right? You can talk to each one of your family members and make a case for your point of view, then let them make a case for theirs and then vote. Simple, right? It's a good system, why wouldn't it work everywhere and in every situation?

You made my point for me. It doesn't work unless all the stakeholders have the same interest, education and goals. The only way to run a profitable company is to be the boss, listen to your employees or family members and customers and then make an autocratic decision. Your not going to stop and consult and vote on every problem because it would slow things down and you might not get to run things the way you want.

Thailand is a divided country. On one side is the money and power and on the other is poor uneducated farmers. The poor uneducated farmers have the exact same vote as the individual rich people. We can debate all day about weather or not the farmers should have a equal vote, and thus this be a democracy, but the fact is that the things the farmers care about are not the same things that the rich care about. The rich were happy when the farmers shut up and went to the farm everyday. That actually would be fine except the rich want all the proceeds from the farmers efforts for themselves. This is the exact same thing that is destroying the economies of the west.

It doesn't matter that we have Representatives in the west if they don't hear us. If the only people who have access are the rich, well it sure explains why we've gone off the rails with this democracy experiment.

The Thai people were perfectly happy with their King until some powerful people came along and ran him out of town. These people told the Thai people that they were better off with a democracy, Their still scratching their heads to try to understand what is better about this democracy. What they want is a leader who can balance the benefits of the society so they get a piece which I would argue they deserve. They don't care that he's not perfect, they don't even care if it's not him. They want leadership and their not getting it from the PC, oxford educated Abhisit.

They think that they will get it from Thakson. That's why the reds will get elected. They've waited too long (since 1932) for this democracy experiment to work.

Edited June 18, 2011 by trisailer

[rixalex]

Agree with you, a slip of tongue

He never intended to say "million", just 65, the number of people who support the democrats

You seem to be under the misapprehension that for one to find the idea of a convicted criminal being able to get off from serving time unacceptable, one must also be a Democrat supporter. The two do not go hand in hand. All that is required is a belief in that nobody is above the law. A belief that PTP supporters clearly do not share.

Yet you cannot see that the very people that removed him from office, and have removed other elected parties from office in the past four elections, put themselves above the law by staging a coup and rewriting the constitution? So you are saying if it benefits you it is okay and that rewriting the law to advance your agenda is not wrong?

I made no comment on any of the topics you raised there. In your head is obviously a different matter.

[jdinasia]

What ??!!!

He's only facing 2 years of jail and he is in exile for that ??

I know and have heard all about the conditions of Thai Jails, but surely he can do his 2 years and move on in his life from there.

I wouldn't be on the run from my home country for a piddly 2 years... I could understand people facing life sentences, and otherwise lengthy jail sentences.

Also I think he might come out better (more popular? greater support?) with his followers -- as a man who took his punishment, not run away from it.

Real sad all this for only 2 years, if thats all it is.

The problem is my friend you do not have his warped mind so pointless comparing yourself.

Well, don't forget he's also facing 5 additional charges upon his return. The court can't proceed on these new charges until he returns. So it's a bit more than just the 2 years.

Hey Noah, long time no see!

As a result of the assets forfeiture civil case, there are grounds for at least 4 more cases of abuse of power, that to my knowledge have yet to be lodged against Thaksin.

[fritter1970]

U serious? Abhisit is doing what he can with a monkey system....... ?Thaksin doing for HIMSELF what he can with a monkey system..... Tell me, has Abhisit got a company that has made money from being PM? Wake up people.....

[fritter1970]

not meant against u jdinasia

[ratcatcher]

Even if he comes back in some form or another the people are not just going to breath a sigh of relief, their going to expect results and I have no doubt that if they don't get them they will continue to seek them by whatever means they chose.

I can't say with any certainty that Thaksin will fix everything, but he will buy some breathing room and he is probably the best guy to "convince" the real power in Thailand that they need to "share the wealth." I'm a poker player not an intellectual. I look at the odds and the best odds for stability is the reds getting a shot. Conveniently it is also the most likely outcome.

I think that many of you are basing your views on what you have been taught to think; that democracy is good, socialism is bad, etc. If you think objectively you must see that democracy is a failing social system because it cannot react fast enough to the changing times.

This line caught my attention since it refers to Thaksin (who is wealthy) and the 'real power" in Thailand (the elite and on up the food chain, who are even wealthier).

Great Britain has had a monarchy (am, I allowed to refer to this in a historical context?) for over a thousand years and many of the monarchs were totally corrupt and in the 1000 years since, the landed gentry and other wealthy individuals have controlled much of the business & political scene.

Vast tracts of land were given, and dukedoms and earldoms created, for service to the crown and country, not always of the finest moral kind. Some of the wealthiest aristocrats in England today owe their wealth to people, in the past,of Thaksin's ilk

The Americans had a euphemism "robber barons". Corrupt industrialists. Thaksin would be proud to be counted in their company.

However when, or rather if ,he does return, it remains to be seen just how long the Red Carpet will be.

The so called elites in Thailand will be divided like never before.

[trisailer]

The coffee is fresh and Thaksin is not doing anything to be altruistic,

to believe otherwise is fantasy land.

Democracy has never been installed to create consumerism,

regardless of companies will take an opportunity to profit where they can.

Laos was a tragedy, but was intended to prevent another exported Maoist Cultural Revolution, which as certainly not proved a success in China. I was not for the war by the way, I just understand the why aprt of it. Oh my, think of the trade that war has brought the USA from Laos... Zip.

I find it curious you have no problem profiting from pyramid schemes,

but decry Democracy as failed, but the shoot guys running pyramid schemes in China....

Somethings missing in your general outlook.

Perhaps time for a self induced internal mental keel hauling.

Why would you be curious about my having no problem with pyramid schemes. It is was a completely legitimate investment that I was fortunate to have inside information about. Nothing illegal about it. I didn't live in China so I don't know what that has to do with anything. You might also be interested in some of the other dodgy things I did on behalf of my company when I was an executive. All perfectly "legal" just like the derivatives fiasco. The result is that I get to live a comfortable life without a worry in the world.

Since we're being "curious" how did you make your money? Teaching? Because if you have ever actually worked in business these things wouldn't come as such a big surprise.

You still don't get it. It doesn't matter what you think or I think of some academic from some top university thinks. The Thai people think that he is looking out for them. They are accustomed to someone looking out for them and they have been trusting this democratic system to produce results that benefit them. We're going back to the village for the election. Each and everyone of my wifes family are voting red. What they see is the medical program that was put into effect by Thaksin, that benefits them. They had a huge drug problem in their village before Thaksin started killing them and the problem went away over night. They also remember Thaksin trying some things to keep the price of rice higher. My wifes grandparents collect old age pensions from the government that THEY believe came from Thaksin. They don't see anything of benefit from the Oxford guy, they haven't even seen him until the election comes around. Their not stupid. They haven't been lulled into an overweight stupor like those in the west, they're asking "where's the beef" for me?

You need to check your historical facts and maybe have a few more cups of coffee. I guess I shouldn't expect a cloistered saint to understand the world. You may fall for the propaganda that you have been fed, but I chose to draw my own objective conclusions using my own critical thinking skills as opposed to believing everything I hear.

[Britannia]

Even if he comes back in some form or another the people are not just going to breath a sigh of relief, their going to expect results and I have no doubt that if they don't get them they will continue to seek them by whatever means they chose.

I can't say with any certainty that Thaksin will fix everything, but he will buy some breathing room and he is probably the best guy to "convince" the real power in Thailand that they need to "share the wealth." I'm a poker player not an intellectual. I look at the odds and the best odds for stability is the reds getting a shot. Conveniently it is also the most likely outcome.

I think that many of you are basing your views on what you have been taught to think; that democracy is good, socialism is bad, etc. If you think objectively you must see that democracy is a failing social system because it cannot react fast enough to the changing times.

" I'm a poker player not an intellectual............... democracy is a failing social system............"

The greatest minds of the last 20 centuries have decided that democracy, while not perfect, is the best system devised so far, but we should take your word for it that it's stuffed. And as

"The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes............" I gather that you're not even much of a poker player. You do seem to have an affection for criminals though.

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

[jdinasia]

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

Pyramid schemes are illegal. Thaksin is a criminal.

You can do your own research on democracy

[trisailer]

"he is probably the best guy to convince them that they need to share the wealth"

This line caught my attention since it refers to Thaksin (who is wealthy) and the 'real power" in Thailand (the elite and on up the food chain, who are even wealthier).

Great Britain has had a monarchy (am, I allowed to refer to this in a historical context?) for over a thousand years and many of the monarchs were totally corrupt and in the 1000 years since, the landed gentry and other wealthy individuals have controlled much of the business & political scene.

Vast tracts of land were given, and dukedoms and earldoms created, for service to the crown and country, not always of the finest moral kind. Some of the wealthiest aristocrats in England today owe their wealth to people, in the past,of Thaksin's ilk

The Americans had a euphemism "robber barons". Corrupt industrialists. Thaksin would be proud to be counted in their company.

However when, or rather if ,he does return, it remains to be seen just how long the Red Carpet will be.

The so called elites in Thailand will be divided like never before.

Weather Thaksin is wealthy has nothing to do with it. He passed the health plan and ended the drug problem (temporarily) in the villages and they believe that he got them a old age pension.

I don't know if Thaksin would be proud to be called a robber baron. He made his money by being in the right place at the right time with the right idea just like bill gates. He didn't take advantage of the poor labor conditions in America to get rich. He didn't have to.

Of course the elites will be divided, they already are, but his proxy win will maybe bring them to their senses and realize that the country is not willing to accept the status quo. I frankly don't know.

I do think that his win will be less destabilizing to the country in terms of violence and that will be a good thing. Like I said before I'm willing to live with whatever they decide.

[trisailer]

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

Pyramid schemes are illegal. Thaksin is a criminal.

You can do your own research on democracy

Pyramid schemes are not illegal when they are presented as a legitimate business. What do you think Tupperware was?

I would also like to know who these "greatest minds" are, just give us a few. You made the comment you shouldn't have to do any research at all.

Yes, Thaksin is a criminal as defined by his opponents. So what?

If you have a point. Why don't you make it?