Ex-Premier Thaksin Return To Thailand Not Possible: Deputy PM Suthep

[noahvail]

I thought the idea of being in business was to "benefit" yourself.

That is correct, and is the reason why a big businessman like Thaksin should not be running the country, as he would put his business interests first before the interests of the country.

Here are just some of the Shinawatra clan's business interests: SHINAWATRA'S BUSINESS NETWORK

His decisions for Thailand are going to be influenced not only by whether the people will benefit, but also (and possibly moreover) by whether or not his own businesses stand to benefit.

The potential for conflict of interest is enormous.

Can you imagine the kind of deal he's going to do with a tablet PC manufacturer? Imagine the commission he's going to get by supplying the millions of school children with one each.

I think Thaksin's business interests have been put under a microscope and if the democrat's had found any evidence of wrongdoing that he has not already been convicted of (aside from the corruption that would bring them all down) they would have pointed it out.

There are further charges pending against him. The courts are awaiting his return to go forward with them.

[Buchholz]

I thought the idea of being in business was to "benefit" yourself.

That is correct, and is the reason why a big businessman like Thaksin should not be running the country, as he would put his business interests first before the interests of the country.

Here are just some of the Shinawatra clan's business interests: SHINAWATRA'S BUSINESS NETWORK

His decisions for Thailand are going to be influenced not only by whether the people will benefit, but also (and possibly moreover) by whether or not his own businesses stand to benefit.

The potential for conflict of interest is enormous.

Can you imagine the kind of deal he's going to do with a tablet PC manufacturer? Imagine the commission he's going to get by supplying the millions of school children with one each.

I think Thaksin's business interests have been put under a microscope and if the democrat's had found any evidence of wrongdoing that he has not already been convicted of (aside from the corruption that would bring them all down) they would have pointed it out.

There are further charges pending against him. The courts are awaiting his return to go forward with them.

In just one of Thaksin's still-pending cases, there's an astounding 50,000 pages of evidence awaiting his return.

THAKSIN CORRUPTION CASE

AEC submits 50,000 pages

The Nation / June 17, 2008

The Assets Examination Committee (AEC) yesterday submitted more than 50,000 pages to the Attorney-General's Office that it says implicates ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, his son Panthongtae, and former board members of Krung Thai Bank (KTB) in alleged loan irregularities extended to the Krisda Mahanakorn Group.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/06/17/headlines/headlines_30075742.php

------------------

Several other cases also have veritable pallet loads of evidence waiting to come to trial once he returns.

.

[lannarebirth]

The demonstrated ability to order the war on drugs killing over 1400 innocents .... etc etc etc ..Do you really believe that all of these people were Innocent? Funny how the drug problem went away over night don't you think?

I think I'll let some one else point out the inaccurate points in that statement.

Reading this guy's posts the only conclusion one can draw is that his plane just landed and he was not here for any of the Thaksin years.

[jdinasia]

The demonstrated ability to order the war on drugs killing over 1400 innocents .... etc etc etc ..Do you really believe that all of these people were Innocent? Funny how the drug problem went away over night don't you think?

I think I'll let some one else point out the inaccurate points in that statement.

Reading this guy's posts the only conclusion one can draw is that his plane just landed and he was not here for any of the Thaksin years.

The drug problem went away? I remember listening to a speech given by a VIP that chided Thaksin over his claims that drugs were gone from Thailand. Drugs did become more expensive but were still available nation-wide. Who benefitted from the increase in price?

The 1400 mentioned had no connections to the drug trade. The other 1100-1300 did. All of them were executed without a trial. More innocent than guilty people died. Do I need to believe that ALL of them were innocent? No. Wouldn't one person who is innocent being killed because his name is on a government list be one too many? If not then please don't mention the reds again! (Extremely flawed logic to blame the government for the reds (and army and reporters and and and) dying and not blame another government for 2500+ extrajudicial murders.)

[jdinasia]

Demonstrated ability in this case must include ---

The demonstrated ability to be the most divisive leader in Thai history. Divisive how? All of the conflict has occurred under Abhisit. Things were calm under Thaksin.

The demonstrated ability to lie cheat and steal to benefit himself and his businesses. Cheat who? Lie about what? The vast majority of his money was made by being in the right place at the right time just like bill gates. The government has already recovered the taxes from the sale of his company and the airport issue. I thought the idea of being in business was to "benefit" yourself. As for corruption the cost of corruption in Thailand is about 20% of GDP ($116,953billion US) Seems he's not alone. How corrupt is it when the Army takes over a country in a coup?

The demonstrated ability to order the war on drugs killing over 1400 innocents .... etc etc etc ..Do you really believe that all of these people were Innocent? Funny how the drug problem went away over night don't you think?

Yep Thaksin has demonstrated all of that. Abhisit hasn't. --- correct in your scoring.

You on the other hand have not demonstrated anything other than your misguided opinion. How about some facts to back it up.

Things heated up under Thaksin --- Things boiled over under Samak and Somchai (They would have boiled over under haksin but he resigned, came back, went to NYC, and was replaced by a coup installed government)

The idea of being in business to benefit yourself is --- ummmm called ... wait for it ----- corruption when you are the PM. see this post ..... and the response by the Supreme court justices (all of them) to a request for an appeal. http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/08/14/unanimous-rejection-of-thaksin-asset-seizure-appeal/

Your other fallactios argument about the war on drugs (and your seeming approval of 2500+ extra-judicial murders) is dealt with in a post above.

Edited June 20, 2011 by jdinasia

[whybother]

Demonstrated ability in this case must include ---

The demonstrated ability to be the most divisive leader in Thai history. Divisive how? All of the conflict has occurred under Abhisit. Things were calm under Thaksin.

The demonstrated ability to lie cheat and steal to benefit himself and his businesses. Cheat who? Lie about what? The vast majority of his money was made by being in the right place at the right time just like bill gates. The government has already recovered the taxes from the sale of his company and the airport issue. I thought the idea of being in business was to "benefit" yourself. As for corruption the cost of corruption in Thailand is about 20% of GDP ($116,953billion US) Seems he's not alone. How corrupt is it when the Army takes over a country in a coup?

The demonstrated ability to order the war on drugs killing over 1400 innocents .... etc etc etc ..Do you really believe that all of these people were Innocent? Funny how the drug problem went away over night don't you think?

Yep Thaksin has demonstrated all of that. Abhisit hasn't. --- correct in your scoring.

You on the other hand have not demonstrated anything other than your misguided opinion. How about some facts to back it up.

Did the protests against Thaksin in 2005/2006 happen under Abhisit? Did the coup happen under Abhisit? Time for a couple more days research of politics pre Abhisit coming to power in 2008 is needed by you, I think ...

Thaksin made a good portion of his money WHILE he was PM. He was certainly in the right place at the right time, then.

[trisailer]

Several other cases also have veritable pallet loads of evidence waiting to come to trial once he returns.

.

The annual cost of corruption is about $116,953 billion US dollars. How many pages would that be?

[jdinasia]

Several other cases also have veritable pallet loads of evidence waiting to come to trial once he returns.

.

The annual cost of corruption is about $116,953 billion US dollars. How many pages would that be?

Cite your source please --- and then please tell us if that has changed over a percentage of GDP in the last 10 years An uncited non-comparative statistic is simply garbage

[slapout]

I think most of us can remember being told by our parents or even telling our children "just because someone else does it, does not make it right or acceptable". To point out that others are doing the same , worse, or not as much as some, would seem to be a indication of the lack of moral upbringing/thinking of those who propose this as a justification.

Many of us were brought to be honest in our dealing with others, A mans word was his bond, no written contract needed. Those who did not adhere to this thinking were ostracized by a large part of the community and thus were reduced to dealing with like thinking individuals.

If people would discount rumors, innuendo and with a review of what is of public record in Thailand and in foreign countries prior to making a informed choice. I think those who want the best fir Thailand, would see the folly of even considering Thaksin and the political party he has put forth for the upcoming election. It would probably behoove the electorate to use the same yardstick on all th political the parties prior to voting.

[luckyman]

"All 65 million Thais might find it unacceptable"

All of 'em? Ha, ha! Wait and see K. Suthep, wait and see.

You wait and see. It ain't gonna happen. Ms Yingluck may get in, she may form a coalition, but Thaksin isn't coming back. Actually, for the things he cares about, it's not that important to come back. It's not like he has any regard for the place or people. He can mine Thailand from afar, just like his blood diamonds.

God, I hope i never meet one of you people that love the taste of his shit.

I find it equally appaling to read that so many expats/retirees tend to really like him (Thaksin) so much...

But then, there's alot more ignorance in the world than there is wisdom around nowadays anyway...

[jdinasia]

Several other cases also have veritable pallet loads of evidence waiting to come to trial once he returns.

.

The annual cost of corruption is about $116,953 billion US dollars. How many pages would that be?

Cite your source please --- and then please tell us if that has changed over a percentage of GDP in the last 10 years An uncited non-comparative statistic is simply garbage

You might want to look at this thread too ......

"Thaksin thinks, PTP does"

[trisailer]

Several other cases also have veritable pallet loads of evidence waiting to come to trial once he returns.

.

The annual cost of corruption is about $116,953 billion US dollars. How many pages would that be?

Cite your source please --- and then please tell us if that has changed over a percentage of GDP in the last 10 years An uncited non-comparative statistic is simply garbage

The number comes from Transparency International http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

Sure, I'll tell you if it's changed over the last ten years just as soon as I receive your check. My normal charge for research is $300/hour, but I'll cut you a break.

LMAO Did you really say "an uncited non-comparative statistic is simply garbage?" That's a big statement from someone who has made as many uncited non-comparative claims as you have.

Thanks for the laugh

[trisailer]

"All 65 million Thais might find it unacceptable"

All of 'em? Ha, ha! Wait and see K. Suthep, wait and see.

You wait and see. It ain't gonna happen. Ms Yingluck may get in, she may form a coalition, but Thaksin isn't coming back. Actually, for the things he cares about, it's not that important to come back. It's not like he has any regard for the place or people. He can mine Thailand from afar, just like his blood diamonds.

God, I hope i never meet one of you people that love the taste of his shit.

I find it equally appaling to read that so many expats/retirees tend to really like him (Thaksin) so much...

But then, there's alot more ignorance in the world than there is wisdom around nowadays anyway...

Who said they "liked" him? I said he is the lesser of two evils and is more experenced. I wouldn't vote for him as dogcatcher in the west. Different place different rules.

[jdinasia]

Several other cases also have veritable pallet loads of evidence waiting to come to trial once he returns.

.

The annual cost of corruption is about $116,953 billion US dollars. How many pages would that be?

Cite your source please --- and then please tell us if that has changed over a percentage of GDP in the last 10 years An uncited non-comparative statistic is simply garbage

The number comes from Transparency International http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

Sure, I'll tell you if it's changed over the last ten years just as soon as I receive your check. My normal charge for research is $300/hour, but I'll cut you a break.

LMAO Did you really say "an uncited non-comparative statistic is simply garbage?" That's a big statement from someone who has made as many uncited non-comparative claims as you have.

Thanks for the laugh

Sorry, but that just shows a link to a page that talks about the perception index ---- you know --- the one not based upon fact and not comparable year on year. I don't see your stated number. When asked for facts to back something up I give them (unless I have stated it was my opinion)

Since you can't state that the % of GDP is real .... nor can you state that it has gotten better or worse by % of GDP ... it is simply garbage.

1) Lies

2) Goddam Lies

3) Statistics

(attributed to Disraeli --- but ... popularized by Twain) So far you haven't posted any facts that have proven accurate.

[lannarebirth]

"All 65 million Thais might find it unacceptable"

All of 'em? Ha, ha! Wait and see K. Suthep, wait and see.

You wait and see. It ain't gonna happen. Ms Yingluck may get in, she may form a coalition, but Thaksin isn't coming back. Actually, for the things he cares about, it's not that important to come back. It's not like he has any regard for the place or people. He can mine Thailand from afar, just like his blood diamonds.

God, I hope i never meet one of you people that love the taste of his shit.

I find it equally appaling to read that so many expats/retirees tend to really like him (Thaksin) so much...

But then, there's alot more ignorance in the world than there is wisdom around nowadays anyway...

Who said they "liked" him? I said he is the lesser of two evils and is more experenced. I wouldn't vote for him as dogcatcher in the west. Different place different rules.

What a low regard you appear to have for Thai people. Not good enough for folks like you but good enough for the likes of them, eh?

[whybother]

The annual cost of corruption is about $116,953 billion US dollars. How many pages would that be?

The number comes from Transparency International http://www.transpare...pi/2010/results

Is that number for Thailand or for the world? I couldn't find it anywhere in the report?

[jdinasia]

The annual cost of corruption is about $116,953 billion US dollars. How many pages would that be?

The number comes from Transparency International http://www.transpare...pi/2010/results

Is that number for Thailand or for the world? I couldn't find it anywhere in the report?

I gave the website a good look over and used google .... nothing like his claim so far has appeared.

[scorecard]

The demonstrated ability to order the war on drugs killing over 1400 innocents .... etc etc etc ..Do you really believe that all of these people were Innocent? Funny how the drug problem went away over night don't you think?

I think I'll let some one else point out the inaccurate points in that statement.

Reading this guy's posts the only conclusion one can draw is that his plane just landed and he was not here for any of the Thaksin years.

Agree, the posters comments about thaksin just being in the right place to make a fortune ignores the way he was handed a telecoms concession from the leader of a previous coup, which by the way was quite violent and 400 plus Thais suddenly disappeared without trace, never been found, after the army fired on civilians. Plus the telecoms concession was 'given' to thaksin at a time when state policy dictated that all telecoms activity had to be in state hands. There was no announcement about change of that policy, there was no bidding etc., just suddenly photos in the newspapers and other media of thaksin accepting the documents for a telecoms concession from the general. And last but not least thaksin now decrys the ethics etc etc of coups but accepted the concession from a ruthless coup general. Hows that for double standards and phpocracy?

Edited June 20, 2011 by scorecard

[trisailer]

The annual cost of corruption is about $116,953 billion US dollars. How many pages would that be?

The number comes from Transparency International http://www.transpare...pi/2010/results

Is that number for Thailand or for the world? I couldn't find it anywhere in the report?

I gave the website a good look over and used google .... nothing like his claim so far has appeared.

That's because you have to calculate it from the ratio. I assumed you could do simple math. Do you want me to do everything for you?

[whybother]

That's because you have to calculate it from the ratio. I assumed you could do simple math. Do you want me to do everything for you?

So you made it up?

[trisailer]

Simple math. The US TI rating is 7.1 = 12% of GDP. The Thailand TI rating is 3.5 (twice as bad) = 20% of GDP ($584,768 billion US dollars) = $116,953 billion US dollars

PTP populist programs cost according to Abhisit $65.4 billion US dollars = 55% of corruption dollars

If you have a better number, let's hear it.

Edited June 20, 2011 by trisailer

[Nisa]

If the issue was slavery the government could have purchased the slaves for far less than the cost of the civil war like other countries of the time did. BTW how many other countries eliminated slavery without civil war, got a number?

If slavery was not outlawed then what would prevent the slave owners from buying even more slaves with the money the inflated cost Lincoln would have had to pay for them. The south needed the slaves to work the farms in order to sustain an economy at the time. This economy also allowed for the states to try to succeed from the union making the Civil War also about state vs. federal laws and simply keeping the union united. Slavery was indeed a significant reason for the Civil War but it was not the only reason. Had it not been for Lincolns views of slavery when elected, southern states would not have tried to succeed from the union.

[whybother]

Simple math. The US TI rating is 7.1 = 12% of GDP. The Thailand TI rating is 3.5 (twice as bad) = 20% of GDP ($584,768 billion US dollars) = $116,953 billion US dollars

PTP populist programs cost according to Abhisit $65.4 billion US dollars = 55% of corruption dollars

If you have a better number, let's hear it.

Is there a suggestion there that corruption will be reduced under Yingluck's Thaksin's leadership?

[trisailer]

Sorry, but that just shows a link to a page that talks about the perception index ---- you know --- the one not based upon fact and not comparable year on year. I don't see your stated number. When asked for facts to back something up I give them (unless I have stated it was my opinion)

Since you can't state that the % of GDP is real .... nor can you state that it has gotten better or worse by % of GDP ... it is simply garbage.

1) Lies

2) Goddam Lies

3) Statistics

(attributed to Disraeli --- but ... popularized by Twain) So far you haven't posted any facts that have proven accurate.

Any 5th grader can do the math. The widely published number for US corruption (britain is only slightly better) is that corruption accounts for12% of US GDP Since corruption inThailand is twice what it is in the US a simple ratio will produce the number I presented.

I'm asking. Why don't you provide the numbers that dispute them. Normally when someone disputes facts they provide their own. TI is widely used to compare corruption between countries and you will find it used in any major economic publication. Go to the Economist and search it.

[ianbaggie]

Sorry, but that just shows a link to a page that talks about the perception index ---- you know --- the one not based upon fact and not comparable year on year. I don't see your stated number. When asked for facts to back something up I give them (unless I have stated it was my opinion)

Since you can't state that the % of GDP is real .... nor can you state that it has gotten better or worse by % of GDP ... it is simply garbage.

1) Lies

2) Goddam Lies

3) Statistics

(attributed to Disraeli --- but ... popularized by Twain) So far you haven't posted any facts that have proven accurate.

Any 5th grader can do the math. The widely published number for US corruption (britain is only slightly better) is that corruption accounts for12% of US GDP Since corruption inThailand is twice what it is in the US a simple ratio will produce the number I presented.

I'm asking. Why don't you provide the numbers that dispute them. Normally when someone disputes facts they provide their own. TI is widely used to compare corruption between countries and you will find it used in any major economic publication. Go to the Economist and search it.

Can you post a link to these "widely published" figures on corruption because I dont believe what you say if you dont !? How does your "ratio" have the slightest use in this question - its pure speculation. Canm you provide a link for your claims in "The Economist"?? oh!!...........thought not AGAIN!!

[slapout]

Dollars lost via corruption for any country comes from what source? Do they (those doing the survey) send a questionnaire out to those thought involved, the general public, etc? If the estimated numbers are generated within the country, what is considered corruption vs standard business practice, by those supplying the base data? The banks cannot reliably tell us if several billion baht (1 day withdrawal) was for buying votes or just a bad day for bank cash on hand.

The published numbers for road accident deaths is disputed internally by as much as 30%, Aids cases/deaths, communicable disease, etc seem to be disputed by those who are waving the flag for financing. I would doubt that those involved in corruption are any more honest than the petty thief when caught/questioned, they cannot remember all of the transaction which they have been involved in. Its not like they keep a record for paying the approximate tax which is due.

[jdinasia]

Sorry, but that just shows a link to a page that talks about the perception index ---- you know --- the one not based upon fact and not comparable year on year. I don't see your stated number. When asked for facts to back something up I give them (unless I have stated it was my opinion)

Since you can't state that the % of GDP is real .... nor can you state that it has gotten better or worse by % of GDP ... it is simply garbage.

1) Lies

2) Goddam Lies

3) Statistics

(attributed to Disraeli --- but ... popularized by Twain) So far you haven't posted any facts that have proven accurate.

Any 5th grader can do the math. The widely published number for US corruption (britain is only slightly better) is that corruption accounts for12% of US GDP Since corruption inThailand is twice what it is in the US a simple ratio will produce the number I presented.

I'm asking. Why don't you provide the numbers that dispute them. Normally when someone disputes facts they provide their own. TI is widely used to compare corruption between countries and you will find it used in any major economic publication. Go to the Economist and search it.

Let's see --- this thread is about Thaksin and Thailand (you want to make it about corruption because Thaksin has been convicted of corruption. He's guilty, that is certain enough but your numbers game has no basis in reality nor does it change the fact that when Thaksin comes home, as things stand no he goes to jail. He is then brought to court numerous times to hear the charges he has not yet appeared to answer.

"any 5th grader" doing the math would make the same mistakes you do.

Because you are using numbers that aren't real --- you are using a corruption PERCEPTION index and pretending it is a true measure of corruption. Now you are using different sources apparently to establish your numbers AFAIK there are no actual numbers to use to dispute your misuse of the CPI. I am not disputing facts other than the CPI is what it is.

http://www.icgg.org/corruption.cpi_2004_faq.html --- the following quote from wiki is sourced from the preceding link. But hey ... like I said Lies, dam_n Lies, and Statistics.

Statistics like this are, by nature, imprecise; statistics from different years aren't necessarily comparable. The ICCR itself explains, "…year-to-year changes in a country's score result not only from a changing perception of a country's performance but also from a changing sample and methodology. Each year, some sources are not updated and must be dropped from the CPI, while new, reliable sources are added. With differing respondents and slightly differing methodologies, a change in a country's score may also relate to the fact that different viewpoints have been collected and different questions been asked… [despite] anti-corruption reform… [or] recent exposure of corruption scandals… t is often difficult to improve a CPI score over a short time period, such as one or two years. The CPI is based on data from the past three years (for more on this, see the question on the sources of data, below). This means that a change in perceptions of corruption would only emerge in the index over longer periods of time".[4]

[jdinasia]

Simple math. The US TI rating is 7.1 = 12% of GDP. The Thailand TI rating is 3.5 (twice as bad) = 20% of GDP ($584,768 billion US dollars) = $116,953 billion US dollars

PTP populist programs cost according to Abhisit $65.4 billion US dollars = 55% of corruption dollars

If you have a better number, let's hear it.

Is there a suggestion there that corruption will be reduced under Yingluck's Thaksin's leadership?

notta chance!

Trisailer seems to believe that the "corruption perception index" which is a 1-10 scale has something to do with a % of GDP. Which is simply not true.

[trisailer]

Simple math. The US TI rating is 7.1 = 12% of GDP. The Thailand TI rating is 3.5 (twice as bad) = 20% of GDP ($584,768 billion US dollars) = $116,953 billion US dollars

PTP populist programs cost according to Abhisit $65.4 billion US dollars = 55% of corruption dollars

If you have a better number, let's hear it.

Is there a suggestion there that corruption will be reduced under Yingluck's Thaksin's leadership?

notta chance!

Trisailer seems to believe that the "corruption perception index" which is a 1-10 scale has something to do with a % of GDP. Which is simply not true.

I don't know who I can make it any simpler. I don't know what the actual percent of GDP corruption represents but I do know that the index number for the US is 7.1 and I know know that, because it is published in the US that 7.1 represents 12% of US GDP. If 7.1 equates to 12% than 3.5 is twice as bad (seems reasonable) that would be 24% of Thailands GDP.

Like I said give us a number that disputes that.

[trisailer]

Simple math. The US TI rating is 7.1 = 12% of GDP. The Thailand TI rating is 3.5 (twice as bad) = 20% of GDP ($584,768 billion US dollars) = $116,953 billion US dollars

PTP populist programs cost according to Abhisit $65.4 billion US dollars = 55% of corruption dollars

If you have a better number, let's hear it.

Is there a suggestion there that corruption will be reduced under Yingluck's Thaksin's leadership?

notta chance!

Trisailer seems to believe that the "corruption perception index" which is a 1-10 scale has something to do with a % of GDP. Which is simply not true.

Simple 5th grade math.