New Work Permit Requirements From The Labor Department

[Arkady]

Has anyone actually gone for a renewal since these supposed changes and been turned down for a work permit renewal due to no medical certificate? Did they announce new rules and not give any time between announcement and effect?

I just got a two year renewal in one day without any problem. I did supply the medical certificate with syphilis test because it is now clearly listed on the form as a required document for renewal and I saw no point in submitting an incomplete set of documents. I also submitted a certificate to show my blood group, which cost an extra B100, as suggested by Sunbelt but I don't think that was required, as it is not listed. I submitted copies of my resume and educational credentials in case they were needed. HR had asked only for the resume and I don't they needed the certificates, despite Sunbelt's claim that these are now essential for renewal, but I can't be sure as I didn't go there myself. Similarly the map to the office was neither requested, nor submitted. Finally I prepared a spiel for HR to translate to Thai to answer the new question on the form of why the company couldn't find a Thai to do the job - surprisingly this potentially important new requirement was not mentioned by Sunbelt in the original post. HR thought it was too long and I am not sure if they used it as it is supposed to be a separate letter from the company and I didn't see the company documents they submitted with my application. I think that for now a perfunctory response to this question is accepted but a weak answer could provide a good excuse to reject lesser qualified applicants, if they have a mind to.

For now, not much seems to have changed - just a couple more documents required and a couple more questions for the employer to answer. Later - who knows?

Edited July 28, 2011 by Arkady

[jackbox]

I will find out soon enough. My school has the new applications which list the medical certificate, but they said if they don't check the box and don't attach the certificate, it is not needed. So maybe, as is usually the case in Thailand, this is being applied case by case, and school by school. They are insisting I don't need it and since I have a couple week before between expiration and renewal, if they fail I have time to get the certificate. If they are correct, I saved at least 400 baht. I will report back after my renewal is done.

[Arkady]

This thread has been quiet for a couple of months. So hopefully the new rules haven't actually been causing serious problems since they were implemented.

Some one recently told me that amongst the new rules they have introduced a requirement for companies employing a permanent resident also to have at least four Thai employees. Previously the "4 Thais rule" was only applied by Immigration for those applying for one year extensions based on employment. Thus permanent residents and those on work permits who avoided applying for a one year extension by leaving the country at least every 3 months were not included in this requirement. In fact the Labour Ministry never used to ask how many Thai employees a company had. There is nothing in the Working of Aliens Act about the ratio of Thais to foreigners and, whether the Labour Ministry agreed with the "4 Thais rule" or not, it was content to leave it to Immigration which as part of the police can easily introduce policy on a whim through National Police Orders.

I had another look at the new work permit forms and notice that one of them ,namely "Work Permit Employment Certification Form" (attached) requires employers to disclose how many work permit holders they have and how many Thais they employ. Previously I don't think the Labour Ministry asked about the number of Thai employees.

It could be that in trying to eliminate the loophole whereby people avoided the "4 Thais rule" by not applying to Immigration for a one year extension, the Labour Ministry has unintentionally caught up permanent residents in this rule. As a PR, I previously had work permits for several years as the sole employee of a company but now work for a large company with thousands of Thai employees. However, I was hoping to keep open the option of going back to working in a one man company without the fuss of having unneeded Thai employees on paper. Can any one confirm that the "4 Thais rule" now really applies to PRs? Sunbelt?

Work permit employment certification form_employ June 2011.pdf

[jts-khorat]

A more interesting legal situation would arise in a case where an employee caught syphilis after already getting a work permit and was then fired for not being able to renew the work permit.

Curiously enough I could have been in that position; purely hypothetical, my test was clear and there was no doubt about it beforehand. Still I wonder, as I have family and other obligations that can only be met by me working.

Through a paper error (stamp with wrong date) my work permit was invalidated, so I am going through the whole process of getting a new work permit. All the while I am having a contract without ending date for close to a decade already.

In the case that I would not have gotten a health certificate due to illness, would it have been my responsibility to "stay healthy" so I can get and keep a work permit, eg "I resigned", or would the company have to dismiss me, eg pay severance pay?

[petedk]

I'm so confused about all the new rules regarding a health certificate.

I read in an earlier posting that they now require blood type on the certificate. On Friday I was told that ""Applicant must present Medical certificate showing that the

applicant is not insane or mentally sick, suffer from Leprosy,

Tuberculosis, Drug Addiction, Alcoholism, Elephantitus and Tertiary

Syphilis (issued within the last six months)."

How do they test for Elephantitis? Sounds scary to me?

[Mario2008]

A test for syphilis is now also required. They do a blood check.

[WarpSpeed]

That is why I bring my 5 certificates to Thailand.

One question?

If my certificates are in French, are they going to accept them?

I would guess so providing you dont intend "teaching English"....

They would probably even accept it for teaching English. It's the degree that matters, not the experience or language knowledge.

Right, crap that is, as I don't understand how anyone with a degree just out of school with no real world experience is qualified to teach anything they haven't personally experienced? I'll take the guy with the hands on, real world practical experience every time degree or not..

[jts-khorat]

I'm so confused about all the new rules regarding a health certificate.

I read in an earlier posting that they now require blood type on the certificate. On Friday I was told that ""Applicant must present Medical certificate showing that the

applicant is not insane or mentally sick, suffer from Leprosy,

Tuberculosis, Drug Addiction, Alcoholism, Elephantitus and Tertiary

Syphilis (issued within the last six months)."

How do they test for Elephantitis? Sounds scary to me?

The test itself is straightforward enough: just one time blood is taken, from this the lab results were done in under one hour. Cost in a government hospital was (with doctors visit included, to tack a little bit extra to the bill) under THB 300. With that price, I cannot imagine something complicated to be included.

As easy as this test is, I rather worry what would happen if it goes wrong somehow; it is for example unclear to me, if the included check for alcoholism (again not a worry for me personally, but for many it might) is straight promille in the blood, or something like liver markers. Also the drug addiction test included is unclear; I would recommend, to not party the night before and stay away from cough syrup and other common medicine which might create false positives. Explaining them might be more difficult then being just extra careful.

The worry stays, what a fail in this test would mean legally besides just not getting the work permit.

[lopburi3]

Believe the only blood test is the new Syphilis requirement. Others are checked by visual means.

[alyx]

Hey

Tricky question

The guy had syphilis 30 years ago, and again three years ago

In both cases that was succesfully treated

From what I have read , confirming what he had already told me, the test will come back positive even though it is not active anymore

He has been on a working permit for over a decade

Does this mean that his renewal's application will be turned down or does proof of treatment from his hospital (he was treated here) will do the trick?

In short, is it about medical history or present condition?

I doubt anyone has an answer here but maybe a thought would help....

Thanks.

[Mario2008]

If I recall correctly they check for Syph. stage 3 and that stage 1 and 2 are not a problem.

He should inform the doctor about his previous Syph, so they can do extra checks if he currently has it or not. (If possible).

[Tywais]

My experience today for my WP renewal in Chiang Mai. I made the mistake of not listening to you guys and figured Chiang Mai will be immune as I've never even been asked for a medical certificate in the last 4 years though I still get one just in case.

Went to labor and handed all my university documents over and she asked for the medical certificate. Pulled out the basic one, you know your breathing so ok type and it didn't fly. She pulled out the letter which I believe was posted on here of the requirements and circled the last item specifically. I decided to go to Chiang Mai Ram rather than a clinic in order to be sure they understood the requirements.

Fortunately the doctor was aware as he promptly asked 'work permit?' as I set down. He also was a bit gruff when I pointed out the letter to be sure he knew what was needed. He just responded 'I know already'.

Chiang Mai Ram is considered by some as over charging and expected the worse. Got the bill - 200 Baht in all including the blood workup so not bad.

[alyx]

If I recall correctly they check for Syph. stage 3 and that stage 1 and 2 are not a problem.

He should inform the doctor about his previous Syph, so they can do extra checks if he currently has it or not. (If possible).

Thanks Mario

I had already told him to go back to the same hospital where he had been treated ad ask for a test to be made and point out the fact he had received treatment for that , therefore had recovererd from it

From your answer it seem easier as the reult should come up negative on that specific search

I will keep you posted as that might be of some interests to some readers

[Ijustwannateach]

To try to give some reasonable explanation for the check for syphillis: as I mentioned before, there are drug-resistant strains of syphillis now beginning to show up. It may be that Thailand wants to do all it can (though still relatively little) to slow the spread of the resistant strains, especially if they are not already established. Of course, one could ask why the sex tourist trade would not be a much more fruitful group to test, but getting them to comply voluntarily to the testing might be difficult, and if required forcibly could put people off from coming.

Somewhat realistically, people who are working here are more likely to become people who may eventually permanently live here and have families (non-immigrant visas notwithstanding). It perhaps makes sense to make sure this group aren't likely to become undue burdens on the state due to presence of difficult or chronic illnesses.

[moe666]

There hasn't been a cockup here for a while, so the lawyers have came up with another one more than likly leaving some major details out.

[Ijustwannateach]

I can confirm from independent experience that most of the details quoted earlier in this thread are correct, AFAIK, including the disease checks, the blood type, photos, etc.

There also seems to be a new interest in documented household locations and household members.

Nothing, I must say, that is beyond the pale for a country to require considering experience with other countries and knowing how much hassle it is to deal with US immigration rules.

I would suppose that the common-sense explanation for the cert. requirements is that you be able to document some support for your qualifications for whatever job it is you are aspiring to have a work permit for, if such are the terms for your work permit- and they are covering all bases with the possibility that such support may come in the form of a recommendation from a previous employer or vouching by a prospective employer. Relatively flexible, in fact, still allowing, for example, for the possibility of native speakers without tertiary educational qualifications doing some simple language teaching to kids. Not exactly rocket surgery, as we say in the teaching subforum.

I seriously doubt that any interpretation of the law which keeps real investors from keeping the benefits of their investment visas will last for long (or that the regulations for the investment visas are all that similar to the ones for working visas, particularly related to teaching- I imagine the qualifications are more along the lines of money, rather than transcripts)- that doesn't mean that someone somewhere hasn't perhaps made a mistake by not thinking of certain details, because that happens quite often in this country and others.

It would be nice if someone with the language skills and connections could call up and try to confirm some of these details one way or the other. I've had too many confusing encounters with Thai bureacrats myself to blame the messenger for ambiguity or lack of clarity in rules or regulations delivered- part of it is possibly in the translation, part of it is possibly somewhere in the Chinese whisper game between the high muckety-muck who came up with the rule and all the flunkies between him and the public announcements, and part of it is possibly just that the flunkies just mentioned are too afraid (and trained) to do anything other than pass on the suggested rule verbatim.

[Arkady]

I'm so confused about all the new rules regarding a health certificate.

I read in an earlier posting that they now require blood type on the certificate. On Friday I was told that ""Applicant must present Medical certificate showing that the

applicant is not insane or mentally sick, suffer from Leprosy,

Tuberculosis, Drug Addiction, Alcoholism, Elephantitus and Tertiary

Syphilis (issued within the last six months)."

How do they test for Elephantitis? Sounds scary to me?

I was confused by the blood group test mentioned by Sunbelt and had an argument with a very grumpy doctor in a local clinic who didn't do the blood group test even though I asked for it because he claimed to know better than me about work permit requirements. This meant I had to come back again a few hours later for the results of the blood group test. After looking at the new forms again I found there is now a apace to fill in blood type, although this is quite separate from the medical stuff.

There is a test for elephantitis but, unlike syphilis, the Labour Ministry does not require it to be done. I think a cursory look at the patient to see if he has bulging legs or balls is regarded as sufficient.

Some have tried here to justify the tertiary syphilis test which in practice is a test for any stage of syphilis without distinction. Maybe it is because of the increase in syphilis world wide and the increasing drug resistance, although it is still eminently treatable. But this requirement, unmatched by any initiatives from the Public Health Ministry seems rather ineffective. Drug resistant gonorrhea is more of problem at this point, since there is only one class of drug left that it is not yet resistant to. It is likely that gonorrhea will soon revert to being an untreatable disease. Presumably the reason that there is no test for HIV required is because a lot of NGOs come down hard on any type of involuntary testing for that and Thailand resists having its own construction workers screened for HIV to work abroad.