"Democrats Or Thaksin?" - PM Abhisit Turns Up Heat On Rivals As Vote Beckons

[lannarebirth]

He added that at the recent rally, the Democrat Party only expressed negative views of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was a member of the Pheu Thai Party Party, but did not attack the Pheu Thai Party itself.

Banned politician, convicted criminal, party member...

Where's the EC? Surely this is enough to dissolve the party and ban the execs (again)... we all know its coming, its just a question of WHEN?

(my guess is July 2nd)

If that happens, then there will be civil unrest, then a coup, then quite possibly civil war.

Unfortunately the Dems and their military backers are in the 'at all costs' brigade and will do anything to stay in power despite tearing apart the country to do so.

They must let the people decide regardless of Thaksin. Their big mistake was staging a coup to get rid of him in the first place and it has taken almost 5 years treading water to the same outcome.

The Dems have been unelectable since the last Chuan admin was removed because of corruption (funnily enough a guy called Suthep was directly involved in that) and for even the most casual observer of Thai politics this was the only possible outcome.

Civil War ?? Will that be known as "Cavaliers against the Squareheads" ?

There should be NO amnesties, it's the only possible way to a true democracy. If the Democrats had taken action against the PAD leaders, instead of allowing them to stall seemingly forever, the forthcoming election would be a no-contest. As it is, there seems to be only red shirt leaders serving any jail time. How can reconcilliation ever take place under those circumstances?

PAD criminals were in civil court yesterday. They have already lost one major civil case. They have been in criminal court on several occasions, the next will be next month. Get your facts straight!

[lannarebirth]

The western diplomat in Bangkok is way off the mark and knows nothing about Thai society. In Bangkok there are many "middle class citizens" who are red shirts, and always have been

Not many Middle Class Red shirt Citizens,

More like a huge amount of Working Class Red Shirt Citizens,

,and mostly from Isaan Province,

Didn't you know they all flock to Bangkok for work?

Bingo! Previously however, a great many of them have had their house registers in Isaan provinces and had to travel back there to vote. It would seem that many may becoming actual Bangkok residents now and over the long term that's a good thing.

[Buchholz]

well PT are up by 13 % in the latest unofficial predictions and their lead is increasing.

In truth, the Dems have had 5 years - since 2006 to show something ... anything. Unfortunatly they seem more content with squabbling among themselves and not wooing away the reds supporters. Its basically in the too little too late zone -

Better stock up my liquor, make sure I pick up a multi re-entry permit next week.

In truth, the Democrat-led coalition has only been in-power for half of that time, the junta-appointed government was faily-bad, & the two PPP-led coalitions even worse.

Thank you for that.

The operative phrase in your accurately corrective reply.... "In truth,"

That seems to be rare occurrence these days.

.

[lannarebirth]

If Thaksin comes back the hatred the other side feels for him will be far greater than the red shirts feel for Abhisit - How safe will Thaksin be from a snipers bullet - it will only take one. AND HE KNOWS IT!!!

If Thaksin tries to come back "the other side" will not be the other side we've seen thusfar. It won't be PAD folks, though they might be included.it will be people who never felt it important to get involved in their country's politic's TILL NOW. Their lives and more importantly, the lives of their children have been getting better and better. mostly through their own efforts in a society that often rewards ingenuity and hard work. They're not going to let Thaksin rob them of that.

There's no more budgetary surpluses in Thailand. If you want to loot the treasury now, people will know.

Edited June 24, 2011 by lannarebirth

[monkfish]

Is it true that when they showed pictures of dead red shirts the audience cheered??

I didn't watch live just listened on twitter.

[Buchholz]

Thaksin in a plea for forgiveness on Twitter

By The Nation

missing the good photo that accompanied the article

[rubl]

Is it true that when they showed pictures of dead red shirts the audience cheered??

I didn't watch live just listened on twitter.

No idea, also followed things on twitter. Some Thai attitudes are difficult to understand though. The red-shirts last year cheered after the grenade attack on the multi-colored shirts near Saladaeng BTS station which killed a totally innocent Thai woman and wounded about 80 others.

Edited June 24, 2011 by rubl

[jdinasia]

Is it true that when they showed pictures of dead red shirts the audience cheered??

I didn't watch live just listened on twitter.

No idea, also followed things on twitter. Some Thai attitudes are difficult to understand though. The red-shirts last year cheered after the grenade attack on the multi-colored shirts near Saladaeng BTS station which killed a totally innocent Thai woman and wounded about 80 others.

No, the Dem rally participants did not cheer the deaths of anyone.

[rubl]

The western diplomat in Bangkok is way off the mark and knows nothing about Thai society. In Bangkok there are many "middle class citizens" who are red shirts, and always have been

Not many Middle Class Red shirt Citizens,

More like a huge amount of Working Class Red Shirt Citizens,

,and mostly from Isaan Province,

Didn't you know they all flock to Bangkok for work?

Bingo! Previously however, a great many of them have had their house registers in Isaan provinces and had to travel back there to vote. It would seem that many may becoming actual Bangkok residents now and over the long term that's a good thing.

As far as I understand Sunday's pre-election, any who registered and could indicate not to be able to do the proper vote in his/her constituency, could vote at a voting booth of choice. No idea though how many living in Bangkok have bothered to register for the pre-election. Also would their vote count where they voted, or in the constituency they have their household registration?

Edited June 24, 2011 by rubl

[monkfish]

Is it true that when they showed pictures of dead red shirts the audience cheered??

I didn't watch live just listened on twitter.

No idea, also followed things on twitter. Some Thai attitudes are difficult to understand though. The red-shirts last year cheered after the grenade attack on the multi-colored shirts near Saladaeng BTS station which killed a totally innocent Thai woman and wounded about 80 others.

No, the Dem rally participants did not cheer the deaths of anyone.

Thanks guess this guy was imagining it.

http://twitter.com/#!/RichardBarrow/statuses/83859305211768832

[animatic]

Is it true that when they showed pictures of dead red shirts the audience cheered??

I didn't watch live just listened on twitter.

No idea, also followed things on twitter. Some Thai attitudes are difficult to understand though. The red-shirts last year cheered after the grenade attack on the multi-colored shirts near Saladaeng BTS station which killed a totally innocent Thai woman and wounded about 80 others.

No, the Dem rally participants did not cheer the deaths of anyone.

Thanks guess this guy was imagining it.

http://twitter.com/#...859305211768832

Some could be 5, not 5,000,

he isn't precise and he isn't specific.

Is R.B. biased in this case?

[whybother]

Thanks guess this guy was imagining it.

http://twitter.com/#!/RichardBarrow/statuses/83859305211768832

Was he referring to when they were spilling their blood (and pigs blood) in various places?

[jdinasia]

No, the Dem rally participants did not cheer the deaths of anyone.

Thanks guess this guy was imagining it.

http://twitter.com/#...859305211768832

Some could be 5, not 5,000,

he isn't precise and he isn't specific.

Is R.B. biased in this case?

Dunno if he is biased, but it also doesn't set the stage. It doesn't say they cheered at dead redshirts. The reds did "spill blood" at Abhisit's house and elsewhere.

his response about the post

You're right @bangkokdave. Only a small section of the Dem supporters cheered when they saw the Red Shirt blood. Certainly a minority.

I didn't hear any cheering when they showed death. I was watching remotely. It appears that RB was there for part of the time (shot some panoramas) but not later as he was remarking on how many viewers were currently watching on livestream. (2 of the red leaning stations were showing different things on their screen than what the crowd was seeing. When they were playing the sound from the rally, they also cut away from speakers and all you got to hear was Thida/Nutthawut etc commenting on how it was all a lie.)

I'll stick with what I watched unless he clarifies .. I didn't see nor hear any cheering for dead reds. With the spotty coverage and switching TV's AND internet frequently, I could be wrong.

[rubl]

The Democrats must have struck a nerve. K. Thaksin felt a need to twitter about 'reconciliation', 'forgiveness', etc. Just like he did a few times after 19th of May last year. Probably soon forgotten and k. Chalerm will come again with 'amnesty, but not for k. Abhisit/Suthep of course'

Thaksin in a plea for forgiveness on Twitter

by The Nation

"Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has apologised and asked for forgiveness from those he offended, vowing not to exact revenge on his opponents.

To mark the June 24 advent of democracy, Thaksin posted Twitter message via his account @ThaksinLive, calling for Thais to bring about reconciliation and make a fresh start.

"We live in the country filled with differing ideas. But the differences could be channelled constructively instead of ending up in divisiveness," he said.

"To whom I might have caused discomfort, dissatisfaction and resentment from the past to the present, I apologise and beg forgiveness."

"To those scolding, hurting and criticising me, I forgive and hold no grudges. We should overcome the past in order to advance the country forward.""

-- The Nation 2011-06-24

[rubl]

K. Natthawut didn't like the video clips the Dem's showed. I guess he banging his head a few times about those recordings from the main stage last year and even before.

"The Pheu Thai Party will not engage in a war of words but to sue the Democrats for defamation, party-list candidate Natthawut Saikua said on Friday, reacting to last night's campaign speeches at Ratchaprasong.

"Pheu Thai will not get involved in a spat because every word was a lie which should be rebutted in courts," he said."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/06/24/national/Pheu-Thai-not-to-sling-mud-at-Democrats-Natthawut-30158618.html

Edited June 24, 2011 by rubl

[animatic]

Since Thaksin was actively vindictive about simply not being voted for, I can not see him turning the other cheek, except symbolically, if it gets him his way.

Simply not believable.

Edited June 24, 2011 by animatic

[rubl]

It seems Ms. Yingluck has commented on the Dem's rally last night. nothing really new there. It seems she said the information provided by the Dem's was not new, it was what was debated during the censure session a few months ago. Something might have gone wrong in translation though, it almost seems she agrees what the Dem's said was correct

As for her beloved brother, she said he'll have nothing to do with the formation of a new government. The 'It's too soon to talk about this at this time' was probably said with a smile to compensate for the lack of real information given.

The most interesting part is that once more we have a statement which can and will be used against the PTP next she or any of the others says something completely contradictory

Edited June 24, 2011 by rubl

[lannarebirth]

K. Natthawut didn't like the video clips the Dem's showed. I guess he banging his head a few times about those recordings from the main stage last year and even before.

"The Pheu Thai Party will not engage in a war of words but to sue the Democrats for defamation, party-list candidate Natthawut Saikua said on Friday, reacting to last night's campaign speeches at Ratchaprasong.

"Pheu Thai will not get involved in a spat because every word was a lie which should be rebutted in courts," he said."

http://www.nationmul...t-30158618.html

I wish the stakes weren't so high, because I'd dearly love to give up a deep belly laugh for Natthawut's defamation assertions when viewing videos of himself inciting insurrection.

[rubl]

K. Natthawut didn't like the video clips the Dem's showed. I guess he banging his head a few times about those recordings from the main stage last year and even before.

"The Pheu Thai Party will not engage in a war of words but to sue the Democrats for defamation, party-list candidate Natthawut Saikua said on Friday, reacting to last night's campaign speeches at Ratchaprasong.

"Pheu Thai will not get involved in a spat because every word was a lie which should be rebutted in courts," he said."

http://www.nationmul...t-30158618.html

I wish the stakes weren't so high, because I'd dearly love to give up a deep belly laugh for Natthawut's defamation assertions when viewing videos of himself inciting insurrection.

I'd have to check, but I don't think the Dem's really mentioned PTP last night, only k. Thaksin and other UDD leaders and a few red-shirts. With many posters here still very vocal on "PTP is not UDD", why would the PTP be insulted or defamed now ? Yet another statement from a PTP candidate which we'll file for later use

Edited June 24, 2011 by rubl

[jdinasia]

K. Natthawut didn't like the video clips the Dem's showed. I guess he banging his head a few times about those recordings from the main stage last year and even before.

"The Pheu Thai Party will not engage in a war of words but to sue the Democrats for defamation, party-list candidate Natthawut Saikua said on Friday, reacting to last night's campaign speeches at Ratchaprasong.

"Pheu Thai will not get involved in a spat because every word was a lie which should be rebutted in courts," he said."

http://www.nationmul...t-30158618.html

I wish the stakes weren't so high, because I'd dearly love to give up a deep belly laugh for Natthawut's defamation assertions when viewing videos of himself inciting insurrection.

I'd have to check, but I don't think the Dem's really mentioned PTP last night, only k. Thaksin and other UDD leaders and a few red-shirts. With many posters here still very vocal on "PTP is not UDD", why would the PTP be insulted or defamed now ? Yet another statement from a PTP candidate which we'll file for later use

Red shirt leaders being PTP party-list candidates were mentioned both in the debates and at the rally last night. Including some of the footage taken directly from the Redshirt stages ....(at the rally)

[MrChangers]

I'll stick with what I watched unless he clarifies .. I didn't see nor hear any cheering for dead reds. With the spotty coverage and switching TV's AND internet frequently, I could be wrong.

What a cop out after all the so called facts you have spouted before.

[jdinasia]

I'll stick with what I watched unless he clarifies .. I didn't see nor hear any cheering for dead reds. With the spotty coverage and switching TV's AND internet frequently, I could be wrong.

What a cop out after all the so called facts you have spouted before.

Pardon me? No cop out there at all. I am glad to know that you see my posts as factual though. Thanks for that! :jap:

(and yes, cutting out the body of my post did change it's meaning ... but what you did quote is factual." I didn't see, nor hear, any cheering for dead reds. "

The RB tweet doesn't mention dead reds. I don't know where he heard the cheering (TV or in person). I posted (when I had time) what I was seeing and hearing. I admit I could be wrong. and I posted RB's reply stating it was definitely a minority.

I try not to rely upon Twitter for news ... if I can see the source material myself. I watched a good portion of the rally as it happened but did have to change channels etc often

If RB clarifies and states it is what the other poster from here says it was, my answer will be pretty much the same (and still fully factual) as I did not see or hear cheering for dead reds.

Clear enough?

[monkfish]

May be this video answers the question of the thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NzGlCXSJ6k#t=13s

Also

http://www.economist...ory_id=18866885

Too little too late and below the belt tactics won't win vote.

This is what Thai people want to see happy smiles not smear campaigns.

Edited June 24, 2011 by monkfish

[whybother]

May be this video answers the question of the thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NzGlCXSJ6k#t=13s

Also

http://www.economist...ory_id=18866885

Too little too late and below the belt tactics won't win vote.

This is what Thai people want to see happy smiles not smear campaigns.

Those screamers might do ok for the next election.

What the Thai people should want is someone explaining the policies. Smiling doesn't really cut it in the real world.

[monkfish]

The point is the Democrats are just running a smear campaign.

They have been for the last 2 1/2 years its become so obvious that nobody even believes it anymore.

The fact they the military got involved well mmm.

[rubl]

The point is the Democrats are just running a smear campaign.

They have been for the last 2 1/2 years its become so obvious that nobody even believes it anymore.

The fact they the military got involved well mmm.

Your opinion. Mine is the PTP have been running a 'smile nicely' campaign without real content. Their somewhat violent protesting arm the UDD has been doing the smear and lies campaign. K. Natthawut didn't like to see himself on video yesterday and talks about lies and PTP suing the Dem's. Just as constructive as the 2-1/2 years of continuous obstruction the PTP managed as opposition party. Mmmh, 'Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts'

Edited June 24, 2011 by rubl

[letitbe]

The point is the Democrats are just running a smear campaign.

They have been for the last 2 1/2 years its become so obvious that nobody even believes it anymore.

The fact they the military got involved well mmm.

Your opinion. Mine is the PTP have been running a 'smile nicely' campaign without real content. Their somewhat violent protesting arm the UDD has been doing the smear and lies campaign. K. Natthawut didn't like to see himself on video yesterday and talks about lies and PTP suing the Dem's. Just as constructive as the 2-1/2 years of continuous obstruction the PTP managed as opposition party. Mmmh, 'Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts'

no point debating anymore if reds win their will be war if they dont their will be war and i know which side im on. Of course while not helpful to stop Taksin totally destroying this country one can only hope if need be army simply take over again and save thailand. All my life ive been anti kings but thailand can be grateful it has at lest one decent person and long may he live and hopefully guide yet again Thai people away from madness. Sorry if this is against rules.

[Lite Beer]

An inflammatory post containing false information has been deleted along with the replies to it.

[virtualtraveller]

As always you can spin the numbers any way you wish. The Democrats have been around 60 years, they've 'won' several elections, they've even had one 'stolen' from them similar to the manner they came into power presently. Peua Thai have none, Their group have won three, but it transpired that they cheated so were disbanded.

Pre election polls tend to 'tighten' up in the final weeks, don't be surprised if the Dems do better than currently suggested.

This has become an election 'for and against' Thaksin. PTP have already identified BJT as 'against' therefore you can safely add the BJT and Dem numbers together.

At least the Dems aren't openly campaigning on 'army thinks we act' or 'bring back the army' or 'army choose Abhisit as their puppet/clone/whatever'.

The point being, when you put up an complete proxy party to represent one man who is legally ineligible to participate in politics, you create a farce, which is met with equal 'at all costs' actions.

I don't believe the army will 'not let PT' form the government, I'm willing to bet on it. There will be no coup, they might try to persuade Barnharn to 'do the right thing', but a PT government doesn't immediately spell disaster. There are lots of hurdles and blocks they can put in the way if PT do anything dodgy. I don't believe Thaksin will be able to legally come home for Christmas but if he does, you can expect the army to get involved. Probably not as an outright coup, but something complicated and dramatic.

[animatic]

The point is the Democrats are just running a smear campaign.

They have been for the last 2 1/2 years its become so obvious that nobody even believes it anymore.

The fact they the military got involved well mmm.

Ah, so you think;

a ) the truth is a smear?

b ) that what the other side is doing for 2 1/2 years is not a true smear?

Ludicrous statement.