Aquaponics In Thailand

[andycrosby]

See why you two have so many posts just talking to each other. Point out again for everyone I am setting up an AP system as a hobby for a bit of fun. grow some veg for me and the kids a few fish for the wife. This is not my living and I dont want it to be I am a poultry farmer. I hate fresh water fish id sooner eat dog shit . Sorry eating muddy fish is not on my menu. I might not bother with the fish just chuck some chicken shit in the water..!!!!

Can see that you have never eaten butter fried skinless boned fillet of Pla Nin, or for that matter a slab of Murray cod or Red Perch.

no but id put a fresh dorado against any off them.

I did not realise that Mahi Mahi were fresh water fish.

There not fresh water as well you know and thats my point I do not eat fresh water fish, I dont like them and I am not going down the route about what I think of farmed fresh water fish. As you also know expats will not eat a lot of your fish its for the inland people of Thailand, but if a fish is a fish to you that fine

Sorry you will not convince me that fresh water farmed fish are good to eat.

Untill last year I ran deep sea fishing charters and spearfishing trips out of Pattaya I know what good fish is

Edited October 9, 2011 by andycrosby

[grimleybob]

Can see that you have never eaten butter fried skinless boned fillet of Pla Nin, or for that matter a slab of Murray cod or Red Perch.

no but id put a fresh dorado against any off them.

I did not realise that Mahi Mahi were fresh water fish.

There not fresh water as well you know and thats my point I do not eat fresh water fish, I dont like them and I am not going down the route about what I think of farmed fresh water fish. As you also know expats will not eat a lot of your fish its for the inland people of Thailand, but if a fish is a fish to you that fine

Sorry you will not convince me that fresh water farmed fish are good to eat.

Untill last year I ran deep sea fishing charters and spearfishing trips out of Pattaya I know what good fish is

the pic below is of the Thailand spearfishing record grouper shot by me

The taste of fish reflects the conditions it is reared in and the food it eats. If you feed fish on pig-shit its going to taste like pig-shit. If you grow your fish in clean filtered water they will have a clean fresh taste. The Thai fish farmers don't feed their fish on manure to make them taste better, it's because it's free

[andycrosby]

Just been thinking If them Murray Cod are as good as you say ill grab a few hundred fingerlings next time im over your way

Edited October 9, 2011 by andycrosby

[ozzydom]

The taste of fish reflects the conditions it is reared in and the food it eats. If you feed fish on pig-shit its going to taste like pig-shit. If you grow your fish in clean filtered water they will have a clean fresh taste. The Thai fish farmers don't feed their fish on manure to make them taste better, it's because it's free

[unquote]

For somebody who is about to embark on a fish farming venture,your knowledge of Thai fish farmers and their practices is sadly lacking ,as is your knowledge of the physiology of Pla Nin.

To elaborate,Pla Nin are naturally screen feeders with the bulk of their food intake being zooplankton and micro-organisms.

Pla Nin are taught as fry to take surface feed .

Manure is rarely used by even small commercial growers because it is not cost effective in providing phosphates for promotion of natural food growth.

Manure when available is used in the rice paddies to try to offset the large outlay in chemical fertilizers. It sells for 200 baht metre and it takes about 10 cub met (2000 baht ) to egual the phosphate content of 10 kg of 16-20-0 fertilizer (130 baht).

In my years in the industry in Thailand and my many visits to fellow growers farms ,I have never seen pig waste directed into a commercial pond.Thais would not eat fish from this environment.

BUT ,I have seen pig waste run off to a private pond ( cesspool ) where a farmer may put a few Pla Nin for his own use.

Duck and chicken sheds are sometimes built over ponds where the droppings can drop through to the pond to provide phosphate but this method is extremely hard to control and the optimum water quality with the right amount of zooplankton almost impossible to maintain.

Slime green ponds are low on oxygen and often toxic.

Algae growth and virtually everything that lives in the marine environment need oxygen so providing an environment where feed and oxygen is maintained at proper levels is a constant work in progress.

I understand that aquaponics is your bag, but Pla Nin rates in the top five species commercially grown in the world and about 98% of these are grown in pond and river systems.

Edited October 10, 2011 by ozzydom

[grimleybob]

The taste of fish reflects the conditions it is reared in and the food it eats. If you feed fish on pig-shit its going to taste like pig-shit. If you grow your fish in clean filtered water they will have a clean fresh taste. The Thai fish farmers don't feed their fish on manure to make them taste better, it's because it's free

[unquote]

For somebody who is about to embark on a fish farming venture,your knowledge of Thai fish farmers and their practices is sadly lacking ,as is your knowledge of the physiology of Pla Nin.

To elaborate,Pla Nin are naturally screen feeders with the bulk of their food intake being zooplankton and micro-organisms.

Pla Nin are taught as fry to take surface feed .

Manure is rarely used by even small commercial growers because it is not cost effective in providing phosphates for promotion of natural food growth.

Manure when available is used in the rice paddies to try to offset the large outlay in chemical fertilizers. It sells for 200 baht metre and it takes about 10 cub met (2000 baht ) to egual the phosphate content of 10 kg of 16-20-0 fertilizer (130 baht).

In my years in the industry in Thailand and my many visits to fellow growers farms ,I have never seen pig waste directed into a commercial pond.Thais would not eat fish from this environment.

BUT ,I have seen pig waste run off to a private pond ( cesspool ) where a farmer may put a few Pla Nin for his own use.

Duck and chicken sheds are sometimes built over ponds where the droppings can drop through to the pond to provide phosphate but this method is extremely hard to control and the optimum water quality with the right amount of zooplankton almost impossible to maintain.

Slime green ponds are low on oxygen and often toxic.

Algae growth and virtually everything that lives in the marine environment need oxygen so providing an environment where feed and oxygen is maintained at proper levels is a constant work in progress.

I understand that aquaponics is your bag, but Pla Nin rates in the top five species commercially grown in the world and about 98% of these are grown in pond and river systems

[unquote]

I wasn't talking about Pla Nin in particular but fish rearing in general. I wasn't talking about the large commercial farms but the smaller operaters that sell in the local markets. Are you trying to say that nobody fertilizes their ponds with animal waste? Is there anything in my post that isn't true. I rest my case let others be the judge. Bob (APB) IA do you get it

[IsaanAussie]

Bob, yes I get it. But I am no expert on fish. I was under the impression that the manure feeds the micro-organisms and pond life, which is in turn eaten by the fish. Too much manure and the pond life stops and all you can grow in the pond is catfish and algae. So I see your point and agree with everything Ozzydom said about manuring ponds. Personally I pump effluent water from the septic system on the pigsite, but not solids. QED

[andycrosby]

now now boys it will be hand bags at dawn if we carry on like this ...LOL

[Smithson]

Andy,

For the system you are considering, you should really post detailed plans on the AP forum and post Thailand specific questions here. As your using concrete, you want to make sure everything is right.

I would suggest you buy gravel now while there's still some rains, this will save a lot effort washing it. I think a solids filter is a good idea.

Keeping the fish tanks in the shade and away from rain is important. You will need some chelated iron, otherwise the veggies will turn yellow are stop growing. If you can't find it let me know, there is a hydroponic supply shop close by, they have it but it can only be bought in bulk.

As for commercial systems, I doubt they're viable here. There's lot of discussion on the AP forum and the general consensus is it's very difficult. Anyone seriously thinking about it should start with a small system to gain experience.

Relying on cheap pumps for anything important is risky. Same goes for village labor. Even if you could teach someone to operate timers, use water testers and understand the nitrogen cycle, they would probably quit at the time you most needed them.

[ozzydom]

Aquaponics is nothing more or less than a variation and adaptation of systems used to treat effluent since the 1800,s,in other words it is a sewerage treatment plant.

In the case of aquaponics ,plants are used to take up nitrates in the polluted water then to grow fish in the cleansed water.

In sewerage treatment anaerobic and aerobic bacteria do the breaking down and takeup of nitrites, aeration of the water creates algael growth which is then in turn eaten by zooplankton which in turn become food for fishes.

I had a small involvement with a company on the Gold Coast in Oz that imported concentrated aerobic and anaerobic bacteria from Japan and multiplied the bacteria through a system much like an aquaponics system without the plants.

The multiplied bacteria were harvested for sale to larger city sewerage works, then the semi treated water was aerated to promote algae which takes up nitrites and in turn eaten by zoo plankton , the cleansed aerated water complete with zooplankton was then used to grow fish.

The whole pilot plant was housed in an area the size of a double garage,by the way ,that was 23 years ago.

So I do know that the system works,my bone of contention is the quantity of fish that is being claimed aquaponic systems can support.

I have always had a thing regarding unsubstanciated claims of huge money to be made because there are always those who will accept those claims as gospel and dive in at the deep end and do their shirts. If a person can afford a failure well and good but for others a failure can be catastrophic.

If the system can accomplish the claims then I will be the first to applaud it but until proven it stays in my file beside Nigerian money scams .

[Smithson]

Ozzy, I think the difference with AP systems is that they are closed/loop.

[grimleybob]

Aquaponics is nothing more or less than a variation and adaptation of systems used to treat effluent since the 1800,s,in other words it is a sewerage treatment plant.

In the case of aquaponics ,plants are used to take up nitrates in the polluted water then to grow fish in the cleansed water.

In sewerage treatment anaerobic and aerobic bacteria do the breaking down and takeup of nitrites, aeration of the water creates algael growth which is then in turn eaten by zooplankton which in turn become food for fishes.

I had a small involvement with a company on the Gold Coast in Oz that imported concentrated aerobic and anaerobic bacteria from Japan and multiplied the bacteria through a system much like an aquaponics system without the plants.

The multiplied bacteria were harvested for sale to larger city sewerage works, then the semi treated water was aerated to promote algae which takes up nitrites and in turn eaten by zoo plankton , the cleansed aerated water complete with zooplankton was then used to grow fish.

The whole pilot plant was housed in an area the size of a double garage,by the way ,that was 23 years ago.

So I do know that the system works,my bone of contention is the quantity of fish that is being claimed aquaponic systems can support.

I have always had a thing regarding unsubstanciated claims of huge money to be made because there are always those who will accept those claims as gospel and dive in at the deep end and do their shirts. If a person can afford a failure well and good but for others a failure can be catastrophic.

If the system can accomplish the claims then I will be the first to applaud it but until proven it stays in my file beside Nigerian money scams .

I can't argue with any of that Bob (APB) IA I meant do you get APB

[IsaanAussie]

Not really Bob, take a guess it has something to do with another parentless Englishman?

[andycrosby]

Aquaponics is nothing more or less than a variation and adaptation of systems used to treat effluent since the 1800,s,in other words it is a sewerage treatment plant.

In the case of aquaponics ,plants are used to take up nitrates in the polluted water then to grow fish in the cleansed water.

In sewerage treatment anaerobic and aerobic bacteria do the breaking down and takeup of nitrites, aeration of the water creates algael growth which is then in turn eaten by zooplankton which in turn become food for fishes.

I had a small involvement with a company on the Gold Coast in Oz that imported concentrated aerobic and anaerobic bacteria from Japan and multiplied the bacteria through a system much like an aquaponics system without the plants.

The multiplied bacteria were harvested for sale to larger city sewerage works, then the semi treated water was aerated to promote algae which takes up nitrites and in turn eaten by zoo plankton , the cleansed aerated water complete with zooplankton was then used to grow fish.

The whole pilot plant was housed in an area the size of a double garage,by the way ,that was 23 years ago.

So I do know that the system works,my bone of contention is the quantity of fish that is being claimed aquaponic systems can support.

I have always had a thing regarding unsubstanciated claims of huge money to be made because there are always those who will accept those claims as gospel and dive in at the deep end and do their shirts. If a person can afford a failure well and good but for others a failure can be catastrophic.

If the system can accomplish the claims then I will be the first to applaud it but until proven it stays in my file beside Nigerian money scams .

well writen great post Nigerian money scams the perfect end

[pigeonjake]

hi to one and all, im going to put my 2 peneth worth in for whats its worth, ive got a small pig farm we only have 4 beeding sows at the moment, put from my stys i muck out the solids then wash out with the hose and the water goes strait into our pond which is aprox 20m x 7m and its 3,5m deep and our fish are growing very well and have bread like hell, ive got loads, bla nin, i must admit i do feed them too with bought food, and i said to the wife when we start eating the christmass time ill take some out leave in a tank of clean water for a couple of days and they should be ok to eat with no taist of the pigs, thats what im hoping,,lol, but like we all keep saying we are still learning out here,

IA ill see you and the others that are going to the meet on the 10th dec be nice to meet everyone and have a good chat

take care and keep trying to make a bob

jake

[joka]

hi to one and all, im going to put my 2 peneth worth in for whats its worth, ive got a small pig farm we only have 4 beeding sows at the moment, put from my stys i muck out the solids then wash out with the hose and the water goes strait into our pond which is aprox 20m x 7m and its 3,5m deep and our fish are growing very well and have bread like hell, ive got loads, bla nin, i must admit i do feed them too with bought food, and i said to the wife when we start eating the christmass time ill take some out leave in a tank of clean water for a couple of days and they should be ok to eat with no taist of the pigs, thats what im hoping,,lol, but like we all keep saying we are still learning out here,

IA ill see you and the others that are going to the meet on the 10th dec be nice to meet everyone and have a good chat

take care and keep trying to make a bob

jake

HOly HelL!

[pigeonjake]

whats with the holly hell,

thats what we do

[ozzydom]

pigeonjake, is that an ocker accent I detect?

[pigeonjake]

im from england my mate, lincolnshire

[ozzydom]

im from england my mate, lincolnshire

Ah,ok pj, The term "make a bob " threw me. In the times pre decimal currency, Aussies called a shilling a bob,ie. make a shilling.

[MrOdyssey]

Hello all,

Just got back on Thaivisa after ages so that I could alert AA1 of my intended attendance at the next farmers' idea exchange meetup. Very happy to have seen this thread. My first small setup will be on the Bolaven Plateau in Laos. There is a description about aquaponics and the system I intend to set up on my website under Wrong Way Farm Stay, Farm Components, Aquaponics. The page is still under construction, a bit, as is a lot of my site. I'll probably be working on the aquaponics set up most of spring. Got to get my hydropower and bomb-proof crapper functioning first. You can see progress on my Main Blog page. My website should be in my profile or you can PM me. I'll look through this thread thoroughly when I've got a bit of time, now that I know it is here. Might be an interesting topic at the upcoming get together.

[redsweater]

Hi all,

I was going through this thread in doing my research on aquaponics in Southeast Asia, as I'm also planning in the upcoming year to start a small setup myself on my grandfather's plot in Laos. So what is this farmer exchange meetup? When does it take place? I'd be interested in joining up and learning more, when I'm back in Southeast Asia.

I notice much of the setup is based on using plastic or metal containers to set up the contained water system. But I'm curious, if it would be possible to set an aquaponic system up from a mid-size pond. Has anyone ever done an aquaponic system setup with the fish raised in an earthen pond? Perhaps later, I will post a video of the pond to give a better visualization of the size I'm talking about.

Look forward to hearing all your ideas.

Deanna

[CPT]

Hi all,

I was going through this thread in doing my research on aquaponics in Southeast Asia, as I'm also planning in the upcoming year to start a small setup myself on my grandfather's plot in Laos. So what is this farmer exchange meetup? When does it take place? I'd be interested in joining up and learning more, when I'm back in Southeast Asia.

I notice much of the setup is based on using plastic or metal containers to set up the contained water system. But I'm curious, if it would be possible to set an aquaponic system up from a mid-size pond. Has anyone ever done an aquaponic system setup with the fish raised in an earthen pond? Perhaps later, I will post a video of the pond to give a better visualization of the size I'm talking about.

Look forward to hearing all your ideas.

Deanna

I'm also curious as to whether anyone in Thailand is using such a setup. Do the stocking densities require something more controllable? I believe the Aztecs did something similar with floating plant islands albeit without any fish culture...could that be modernized?

Edited December 11, 2011 by CPT