Three British teenagers killed in Thai bus crash

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Swerving for dogs IS bad driving.

It's a natural (and involuntary) instinct for some people, my friend!!!

[TechnikaIII]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

or swerving to avoid a dog ... ?

A competent driver who knows the vehicle, laden with passengers, would not swerve to avoid a dog. A head on collision with another bus is due to a serious error, poor driving, on the part of one or the other. We see it all to often in Thailand. Buses large and small. The drivers here take risks that would be totally off limits in the majority of developed countries. Stick around long enough and you will see. Or safer than driving, take a tour through the past half years' forum discussions and reports of road death incidents. It is a grim picture.

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

What stupid comments.

You are taught in "defensive driving" to look ahead, think ahead. It is a fact of life that there are many dogs on the roads so one must take that into account when driving.

What is brakes failure, if not the result of poor maintenance? And accidents do not need to result from bad brakes.

Accidents do not happen. An accident is a unexpected undesired event. If drivers drive in accordance with conditions and drive defensively accidents should not happen.

With remarks from idiots who suggest that accidents are inevitable fatalities will continue to occur. You (most sane people) are pro-active and the likelihood of accidents accompanied by fatalities are almost eliminated.

The facts are that Thai's are not proactive "nuff said"

I tend to think that if anything, YOUR comments are stupid. What do you mean "accidents don't happen" they do happen, and happen all the time. Have you never had an accident of some sort in your life??? Never tripped over a kerb or walked into something. It doesn't matter just how pro-active you are in guarding against accidents they WILL happen. Despite the safety conscious aspects of nuclear power stations are you trying to tell me that Chernoble never happened or the Titanic, Torrey Canyon, Flixborough, disaster, Hindenberg, BP oil spill etc:

You've even inadvertently stated why they happen when you say they are UNEXPECTED. The kinetics of life unfortunately mean that they are inevitable. All you can hope for is that when they DO happen the results are not damaging to yourself, others or property (to a lesser degree) as things can be replaced but your life or wellbeing are a little bit more difficult to fix and can involve much pain or your termination if you are very unlucky.

Another thing, what about the other bus driver that he hit head on?? Was he to blame as well?? The more I think about your posting the more ignorant you appear matey!!!!

[TackyToo]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Two buses crashed head on! You can hardly blame such an accident on technical failure...

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Two buses crashed head on! You can hardly blame such an accident on technical failure...

Until all the facts are known nobody can rightly apportion blame.

This is a valid point however that does, by my reckoning, indicate it was probably down to careless driving from the description of the nature of said crash (2 buses colliding head on) as clearly one of the buses was on the wrong side of the road at impact.

[Thai at Heart]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

I think you are missing the fundamentals of driving. You should always drive at a speed safe enough to stop safely. Hence, why if you are careful enough, you shouldn't need to swerve to miss a dog. Hence Mr. Idiot in his Porsche overtaking a stationary bus quick enough to cut someone in half in a previous tragic driving story was COMPLETELY IN THE WRONG. A head on collision like this is completely avoidable if people drive properly, pure and simple.

Forethought for where you are, what speed you are doing, and the situation around you are all part and parcel of driving, and the statistics prove that driving in Thailand is extremely dangerous in comparison with other parts of the world. Ths country is crying out for proper drivers education, but no one will commit to do it.

[normac44]

once again to any tourists coming to Thailand and doing alot of travelling , just remember travelling on the roads in Thailand is amongst the most dangerous in the world, Go somewhere else if you can

Crap..Thailand is the only place I want to go to..been everywhere else..Let's wait until all the facts are known about this crash first.

[fxe1200]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

Three days ago I went with quite a new minibus (Toyota) from Trang to Hat Yai. The bus was full (14 passengers plus driver). Everybody had a seat equipped with a safety belt (the belly-type, not the crossover one). NOW CHECK THIS: all belts were extended to the full length, led on the back of the seat through the handgrip of the rear passenger. The left pole of the headrest lead through the hole of the "click-end", thus making the safety belt unusable.

I was the only passenger who removed the belt from the headrest, and used it.

[billd766]

The accident happened some time on Wednesday AFAIR as I saw something about it in Thai on Thursday morning in the "other" paper.

It seems that it was in Klong Khlung which is about 50 km from where I live ans is the main route 1 north from BKK to CM. It is about 40 km south of Khampaeng Phet and the road is a dual carriageway with a wide border between the north and south bound lanes.

HOWEVER it also has U-turns every 4 or 5 km I think and if it was a head on crash it was possibly caused by a south bound bus (local or intercity I have no idea) making a U turn.

I live about 375 km from BKK and if I don't ride my motorbike I would take the first class bus from the NCA instead. When I went down a couple of weeks ago it was a double decker and almost new with seat belts on every seat. The crew were smartly dressed and knew their job and at no time did I ever feel unsafe except in the toilet as it was Thai sized and I could only just turn around.

The cost was 278 baht which included coffee and a snack on board plus lunch as well.

The NCA buses are usually blue and silver (sometimes orange/blue and silver) and the first class buses have a big gold badge on the side.

[Card]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Totally agree with this - far too many people stereotype Thai's and Thailand. It makes me cringe every time something like this happens and everybody spouts off about how poor the driving standards in Thailand are. They are worse than most countries without doubt, but to jump to the conclusion that accidents are ALWAYS the fault of the driver is wrong. It gets monotonous seeing the stock phrases relating to how dangerous Thailands roads are, how rampant corruption is, how the sexpats should be hung drawn and quartered etc: haven't posters got something more interesting to write about instead of coming out with the same boring mantra???

Before looking at poster's comments I was wondering how many pathetic RIP and condolences utterings there was going to be. As expected, they raised their ugly head virtually from the off and It was refreshing to see this sensible posting (from a newbie as well). Other more experienced posters should take note and "cut the crap" as it is meaningless tripe, adds nothing and is as boring as hell!! How about some imaginitive and constructive postings for a change or is that beyond posters capabilities??

Calm down fella......as I said in my previous post it's not Thai bashing to give an opinion on road safety here. It's a thread on road safety...

OK, OK, I've got off my high horse and vented my spleen now, I take your point but it doesn't stop me being averse to these kind of pointless postings that are delivered oh, too frequently for my liking!!

You mean like this one?

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

I think you are missing the fundamentals of driving. You should always drive at a speed safe enough to stop safely. Hence, why if you are careful enough, you shouldn't need to swerve to miss a dog. Hence Mr. Idiot in his Porsche overtaking a stationary bus quick enough to cut someone in half in a previous tragic driving story was COMPLETELY IN THE WRONG. A head on collision like this is completely avoidable if people drive properly, pure and simple.

Forethought for where you are, what speed you are doing, and the situation around you are all part and parcel of driving, and the statistics prove that driving in Thailand is extremely dangerous in comparison with other parts of the world. Ths country is crying out for proper drivers education, but no one will commit to do it.

Do you seriously believe that education is the answer???? Try telling smokers, heavy drinkers and drug addicts that smoking and these other vices are damaging their body. Will they stop on account of you educating them - hardly likely!!! If they decide that they WANT to give these things up then you stand a chance.

Now you try telling Thai drivers that it is inherently dangerous if they drive fast or overtake on blind corners or not to take into account the prevailing weather conditions by driving accordingly, do you honestly believe that they are going to become model drivers after your "pearls of wisdom". Neither do I, I'm afraid (excuse me for answering for you) but there is really only one answer to consider here.

[Card]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

What stupid comments.

You are taught in "defensive driving" to look ahead, think ahead. It is a fact of life that there are many dogs on the roads so one must take that into account when driving.

What is brakes failure, if not the result of poor maintenance? And accidents do not need to result from bad brakes.

Accidents do not happen. An accident is a unexpected undesired event. If drivers drive in accordance with conditions and drive defensively accidents should not happen.

With remarks from idiots who suggest that accidents are inevitable fatalities will continue to occur. You (most sane people) are pro-active and the likelihood of accidents accompanied by fatalities are almost eliminated.

The facts are that Thai's are not proactive "nuff said"

I tend to think that if anything, YOUR comments are stupid. What do you mean "accidents don't happen" they do happen, and happen all the time. Have you never had an accident of some sort in your life??? Never tripped over a kerb or walked into something. It doesn't matter just how pro-active you are in guarding against accidents they WILL happen. Despite the safety conscious aspects of nuclear power stations are you trying to tell me that Chernoble never happened or the Titanic, Torrey Canyon, Flixborough, disaster, Hindenberg, BP oil spill etc:

You've even inadvertently stated why they happen when you say they are UNEXPECTED. The kinetics of life unfortunately mean that they are inevitable. All you can hope for is that when they DO happen the results are not damaging to yourself, others or property (to a lesser degree) as things can be replaced but your life or wellbeing are a little bit more difficult to fix and can involve much pain or your termination if you are very unlucky.

Another thing, what about the other bus driver that he hit head on?? Was he to blame as well?? The more I think about your posting the more ignorant you appear matey!!!!

You seem to assume the Asian fallacy of destiny. Of course accidents happen but proaction reduces their inevitability. That's why road accident stats are so bad in Thailand and much less so in most western countries. Accidents happen everywhere but it's a question of how often and why?

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Totally agree with this - far too many people stereotype Thai's and Thailand. It makes me cringe every time something like this happens and everybody spouts off about how poor the driving standards in Thailand are. They are worse than most countries without doubt, but to jump to the conclusion that accidents are ALWAYS the fault of the driver is wrong. It gets monotonous seeing the stock phrases relating to how dangerous Thailands roads are, how rampant corruption is, how the sexpats should be hung drawn and quartered etc: haven't posters got something more interesting to write about instead of coming out with the same boring mantra???

Before looking at poster's comments I was wondering how many pathetic RIP and condolences utterings there was going to be. As expected, they raised their ugly head virtually from the off and It was refreshing to see this sensible posting (from a newbie as well). Other more experienced posters should take note and "cut the crap" as it is meaningless tripe, adds nothing and is as boring as hell!! How about some imaginitive and constructive postings for a change or is that beyond posters capabilities??

Calm down fella......as I said in my previous post it's not Thai bashing to give an opinion on road safety here. It's a thread on road safety...

OK, OK, I've got off my high horse and vented my spleen now, I take your point but it doesn't stop me being averse to these kind of pointless postings that are delivered oh, too frequently for my liking!!

You mean like this one?

No!!! your 5 words are better than some postings as it doesn't irritate or irk me like some of the others do that I read and wish I hadn't done. I even responded to it so it's OK in my book, even though it is rather pointless and you've just wasted 2 minutes of my life so I take it all back now and for goodness sake stop it will you, please!!!!!!

[Card]

I think we have to admit that driving standards here are pretty bad, especially on the country roads.<br>I see the most dangerous manouvers on a daily basis, the classics are overtaking in unsafe conditions e.g. on a blind hill or a blind bend, drunk driving, racing pickups fully loaded up with goods, speeding through small villages driving long hours on some kind of wake up drug.<br>There is a general lack of care and "fingers crossed" in tight situations where normally one would proceed with caution.<br>The cheaper buses are usually some of the worst offenders, speeding and dangerous overtaking are the norm.<br>The government needs to bring in a licensing system for bus drivers where they are licensed and regularly checked as in the western countries.<br>

In the actual article it dosn't once mention that the driver of the bus was on the wrong side of the road...maybe it was the driver of the bus coming from the other direction that was at fault...who knows...also the road from Bangkok to Chang Mai is not mountainous with loads of twists and bends it is The A1 the main road from Bangkok to Chang Mai which is nearly all straight 3 laned. But saying that, the last time I used it was for a visa run to maesot and back and the road between Kampaneg Phet and Tak was a total disgrace, pot holes and bumps where the tarmac had raisen/melted due to the heat from the sun every where, certain bits of the road the tarmac had been dug up in prepartion of laying a new road but no doubt they had run out of money has the road was the same on several journeys along it...I witnessed buses and lorries with 2 trailors all driving at speed down the motorbike lanes to avoid the bumps and the holes in the road.

.

I totally agree with what bobmac says above regarding the village roads...I used to have a 150cc Yamaha VR ( ex-police bike ) and it had some speed on it and would keep up with any of the pickups but I'm glad I got rid of it...I have a honda 125cc wave now and even driving that is dangerous on the village roads...the times I have had to pull into the verge with my wife and 10 yr old step daughter is unbelivable....the road behind me will be clear and instead of waiting for me to pass ( literally seconds ) they always seem to overtake as I am approaching or level with the car, pickup, lorry etc in front of them....they have no consideration for motorbikes whatsoever....another one is when i'm driving down the A1 to and from the local big town...there are several u turn's....and alot of drivers doing the u-turns cannot/do not judge the speed of motorbike's and the times I have had to brake hard has they have pulled out to do the u-turn and ended up in the motorbike lane are again too many to count.

Another time a thai friend visited me and we ended up having a drink..small bottle of hong tong....he then he decided to take me to a karokee bar where his bit on the side worked..we ended up ordering a large bottle of hong tonk...with food...we drank half of that bottle and it was nearly dark 6.30 - 7pm time so I asked him to take me to nearest town so i could get a motorbike taxi home...he was all red faced ( typical thai when they have had a drink and trust me Thais cannot hold their drink ) ..anyways got to the nearest town no motorbike taxis and the backroad to my home is about 8 miles with no street lights except for a couple of villages...has we strarted driving down it he was all over the place..so I told him to pull over and i would drive...he was having none of it so i thought seatbelt time..........there is a quite a long straight bit of road from 1 viallge to another but this road is used by sugarcane lorries and there are a lot of potholes and no white lines in middle of road...as we where driving down it I saw 2 other cars/pickups coming towards us at speed and thought we are to close to the middle of the road here...has we and the oncoming pickups got nearer and nearer I thought we going to have a head on here...looked at my freind and i think he was transfixed by the oncoming lights...anyway just has we where about to meet I grabbed the steering wheel and pulled it left...BANG...if I hadn't of done it I don't thing I would be here now....his right front wheel popped and he had a big scratch down the side of his car he drove another 500 - 700 yards before the car stopped the 2 pickups had also stopped...but like i say they where 500-700 yards away...after checking car my friend decided to carry on....he tried this 3 times and each time i had to slam on the hand brake otherwise we would have ended down the side of the road ditch..told him the car was not going no where but he was having none of it...kept saying to me " Are you are with me on this " meaning when and if police come that I back him..I said " i will speak the truth...that the road was dark..no white lines and both cars could not see the middle of the road until it was too late"....10 - 15 minutes later 2 policemen came on a motorbike, one stayed with the car the other took my friend to the pickups....i then remembered we still had 1/2 a bottle of hong tonk under my seat..so i got back in the car and pretended to use my mobile and while the policeman wasn't looking threw the bottle into the verge....after 20 -30 mintutes the policeman brought my friend back him and the 2 police spoke to each other then the police left...no breathalysier nothing...I couldn't believe it....couple of minutes later a breakdown lorrie arrived to take my friends car back to the police compoundard...we where in the middle of nowhere about 4 miles from my home so asked the pickup driver if he would drop us off...his answer 300 baht...i said i could get to bangkok for that....300 baht or you walk home..no cars will stop on this road he said..ok I said i will pay the 300 baht...my friend was then rummaging about the car i said what are you doing he said looking for the whiskey..told him I had thrown it in the verge..he went and got it and we got in the breakdown van..i sat in the back he sat in front in with the driver...couldn't believe it when he started to share the remainder of he whiskey with the driver....AMAZING THAILAND.

RIP to the 3 English Lads and condolenses to all their families and hope the 4th lad in hospital is not injured that bad and makes a speedy recovery.

Several people seem to have their facts wrong. There was NO HEAD-ON collision and no accident resulting from overtaking. The bus in question was bumped from behind, almost certainly the result of tail-gating.

It seems that there is a mistake between 2 accidents. One of these involved an overtaking mistake and a bus hit a lorry and several people were killed. No mention there of any tourists involved as far as I recall and it was reported in the Thai press about a week ago. I believe this is not the same one and i cannot find any reference to this current crash being reported in the Thai media.

[Danart69]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

I'm a regular passenger in Thailand with my gf and family when we get in the pickup I'm straight on with the belt they all laugh at me in England it's second nature to belt up done with out thinking.

[ToffeEFCpower]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

I dont know what country your from, but where I come from we are taught never to swerve for an animal.

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

What stupid comments.

You are taught in "defensive driving" to look ahead, think ahead. It is a fact of life that there are many dogs on the roads so one must take that into account when driving.

What is brakes failure, if not the result of poor maintenance? And accidents do not need to result from bad brakes.

Accidents do not happen. An accident is a unexpected undesired event. If drivers drive in accordance with conditions and drive defensively accidents should not happen.

With remarks from idiots who suggest that accidents are inevitable fatalities will continue to occur. You (most sane people) are pro-active and the likelihood of accidents accompanied by fatalities are almost eliminated.

The facts are that Thai's are not proactive "nuff said"

I tend to think that if anything, YOUR comments are stupid. What do you mean "accidents don't happen" they do happen, and happen all the time. Have you never had an accident of some sort in your life??? Never tripped over a kerb or walked into something. It doesn't matter just how pro-active you are in guarding against accidents they WILL happen. Despite the safety conscious aspects of nuclear power stations are you trying to tell me that Chernoble never happened or the Titanic, Torrey Canyon, Flixborough, disaster, Hindenberg, BP oil spill etc:

You've even inadvertently stated why they happen when you say they are UNEXPECTED. The kinetics of life unfortunately mean that they are inevitable. All you can hope for is that when they DO happen the results are not damaging to yourself, others or property (to a lesser degree) as things can be replaced but your life or wellbeing are a little bit more difficult to fix and can involve much pain or your termination if you are very unlucky.

Another thing, what about the other bus driver that he hit head on?? Was he to blame as well?? The more I think about your posting the more ignorant you appear matey!!!!

You seem to assume the Asian fallacy of destiny. Of course accidents happen but proaction reduces their inevitability. That's why road accident stats are so bad in Thailand and much less so in most western countries. Accidents happen everywhere but it's a question of how often and why?

You cannot change or influence destiny as it is predetermined so no matter how proactive you are you cannot alter it as it is WHAT happens and what WILL happen regardless of events. Also, you cannot reduce innevitability as if it is inevitable then it WILL happen. There is no, and cannot be an "in between" as it either happens or it doesn't happen and inevitable means it is going to happen!!! If it is impossible for it to happen then you get the other extreme.

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

I dont know what country your from, but where I come from we are taught never to swerve for an animal.

Not even for a bull elephant or a 2 ton rhino standing in the road???

[Thai at Heart]

You cannot change or influence destiny as it is predetermined so no matter how proactive you are you cannot alter it as it is WHAT happens and what WILL happen regardless of events. Also, you cannot reduce innevitability as if it is inevitable then it WILL happen. There is no, and cannot be an "in between" as it either happens or it doesn't happen and inevitable means it is going to happen!!! If it is impossible for it to happen then you get the other extreme.

Pure psychobabble. Being of a belief in fate, doesn't absolve anyone for respect for others, or give them an excuse to act irresponsibly to those around them, or trying to avoid causing damage to others.

In which case, fatalists shouldn't drive on public roads. I hope they do a bit of psychiatric analysis of whoever they are going to appoint as chief safety officer at the nuclear power stations they intend to use.

[bjderb]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

There are seat belts on all the green buses i have been on,wether people use them is another question.

A very tragic loss of young lives & heartbreaking for their nearest & dearest.

[ToffeEFCpower]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

I dont know what country your from, but where I come from we are taught never to swerve for an animal.

Not even for a bull elephant or a 2 ton rhino standing in the road???

You have a point there lol

[sailblue]

I just did my first bus trip to Nong Khai. I was surprised how slow he drove, both ways. Left from Petronas on Sukumvit, never seemed in a hurry, nice and steady.<br>I rode on the top going and below returning. Re safety for each spot I guess strictly depends where the other vehicle/tree hits the bus. <br><br>One rule I stick to, and they did offer the front seat going north, never take the first few rows for obvious reasons. <br><br>Tour buses have accidents all over the world, the number would depend on local drivers and roads. Certainly as a local driver for 12 years, the buses here are something you do not want behind you, and the mini buses are the worst, they get up your rear and push you out the way unless you are doing 140 kph.<br><br>Whatever the reason for the accident, very sad time for many.<br><br><br><br> <br>

[cdnvic]

One post in very poor taste and a reply were removed. Any further posts that try to make light of people's deaths will receive a suspension.

[rott]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

THAI drivers AVOIDING hitting a dog?

that's hilarious.

Beat me to it.

[loseless]

Thailand is not among the worst countries statistically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate) and is improving, albeit fairly slowly. It is frustrating that people are always so negative about this country improving. There is a lot being done to reform policies which affect road safety, especially law enforcement of drink driving, the biggest single reason why the death tolls are quite high. European countries had similar statistics prior to educating people about drink driving.

[jimbeam1]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

New passenger coaches in the UK have them. Probably required by law now. Not to say that all passengers wear them though.

Just got back from the UK, used National Express Coaches. They have had seat belts for at least the last 4 years. Before driver set off he told everyone to use seat belts (not all did)

jb1

[peetalay]

some examples

traffic-kills pr 100.000inhabitans

United Kingdom3.59

Japan3.85

Norway5.4

Thailand19.6

Eritrea48.4

Edited July 1, 2011 by peetalay

[chuang]

once again to any tourists coming to Thailand and doing alot of travelling , just remember travelling on the roads in Thailand is amongst the most dangerous in the world, Go somewhere else if you can

What are you talikg about??

'Go somewhere else if you can"

I wonder he is still here....

[Thai at Heart]

Do you seriously believe that education is the answer???? Try telling smokers, heavy drinkers and drug addicts that smoking and these other vices are damaging their body. Will they stop on account of you educating them - hardly likely!!! If they decide that they WANT to give these things up then you stand a chance.

Now you try telling Thai drivers that it is inherently dangerous if they drive fast or overtake on blind corners or not to take into account the prevailing weather conditions by driving accordingly, do you honestly believe that they are going to become model drivers after your "pearls of wisdom". Neither do I, I'm afraid (excuse me for answering for you) but there is really only one answer to consider here.

It is one part of the answer. Try watching drivers from the US go round a roundabout. They have no clue, because they have never been taught. Training is all part of learning to operate a piece of machinery, even more so, when one considers that operating a car involves being around every one else. Operating a JCB in isolation involves largely only hurting yourself.

Thai's are not bad drivers. They control a car as well as anyone else. If they couldn't there would be thousands of crashes a day in Sukhumvit alone. The issue is that there is no unified training of the rules and regulations, so that on the vast majority, there is no unified way to maneouver a car from A to B. There is a reason why people are taught not to overtake on blind corners, uphill, in front of schools, over humpback bridges etc. This is because it has been proven to be extremely risky, and without training, people do not instinctively understand the risk. This is what education is for.

In the days before driving tests and proper rules, roads where chaos.

I don't expect people to become model drivers overnight, but look at how wearing seatbelts, wearing bike helmets whilst prone to initial resistance, eventually become accepted. These laws save lives. If you show 1000 people the risks of driving in a certain way, after a day 1 may change, after 2 days, maybe 2. To believe that it is impossible to change anyone's behaviour simply because it is hard to do, means we all may as well give up. As for smoking, percentages are way down, but then it is physically addictive, and largely only inflicts harm on oneself. Driving involves potentially killing others and is thus a far more serious issue.

I wouldn't expect to be allowed to pilot a 747 without passing a test and would expect to continue to do so if I flouted the rule. Why should it be any different with a car?

How's about this. Maximum speed limit in the country, all with speed governers on every vehicle. Maximum speed 30kph. Watch the death statistics drop like a stone. So if people want to drive at 110, this is why they need to be trained and policed properly.

[SPIKECM]

I've been driving in Chiang Mai for 11 years and I much prefer driving in Thailand than the UK. But I could never describe the Thais are "great drivers"!

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Yes you are right , those stories usually end up by investigation " brake failure" ... I agree no need to jump in conclusion but we all know ,specially those living here ,that mini vans drivers , bus drivers ,pick up drivers rarely care about their passengers ,how many accidents everyday because of excessive speed and inadequate driving behavior ???????

I have been doing 90 visa run for 7 years with no probs,great drivers too.Been travelijng all over Thailand with,u guessed it,no probs.Deaths can happen all over the world,and would be interesting to see the death rate for Thailand and uk,i canty be arsed to look but somebody will.

RIP LADS

Edited July 1, 2011 by SPIKECM