Three British teenagers killed in Thai bus crash

[SICHONSTEVE]

Do you seriously believe that education is the answer???? Try telling smokers, heavy drinkers and drug addicts that smoking and these other vices are damaging their body. Will they stop on account of you educating them - hardly likely!!! If they decide that they WANT to give these things up then you stand a chance.

Now you try telling Thai drivers that it is inherently dangerous if they drive fast or overtake on blind corners or not to take into account the prevailing weather conditions by driving accordingly, do you honestly believe that they are going to become model drivers after your "pearls of wisdom". Neither do I, I'm afraid (excuse me for answering for you) but there is really only one answer to consider here.

WHAT ???, .... how can you compare an addiction to bad driving ???,we drive for need ,want or pleasure ,not addiction.............. your argument is complete nonsense ! ,..... i know the dangers of smoking ,drinking and dangerous driving,.......... the only one i can control is my driving, i can go without a drink , but its just one of the few pleasures i have, so why should i ? .........and ive got a clean license after 30 yrs,....... dont know about my lungs or my liver !,..........as for drug addicts , are you serious ?????????, probably the worst answer i have ever seen on TV , GET A GRIP MAN , Babababoa

I know that these are all addictions. I was using them more as a principled argument to elucidate that I do not see education as being the answer for tackling the problem, thats all!! OK, change these to eating Hamburgers and fries or drinking Coca Cola as I imagine that that you are from the US taking into account your hysterical reaction to my posting whereby you have "got the wrong end of the stick" I'm afraid.

Everybody knows (well should know) that these are silent killers, right!! Americans have a severe obesity problem and so many of them die of heart related illnesses. There must be plenty of health educationalists jumping on the band waggon in trying to fix this problem as Americans are good at this when they see an opportunity to make money out of someone elses misfortune, right? Then why are there still so many fat Americans still out there? The simple reason is that they like to eat all of these fat and sugar laden foods that taste nice which unfortunately seems to be their national cuisine. So education doesn't seem to have help the dilemma (maybe you will claim that eating food in America is an addiction of sorts).

On to my point, Thai drivers are used to and like driving like maniacs (just like the Americans with their dud dietary failings) so do you seriously think that saying to them " come on chaps, don't you understand that this kind of driving on the roads is dangerous and irresponsible so from now on you must drive slowly, stop overtaking cars on the inside and refrain from driving the wrong way up the road" Will they listen to this advice, hell no!!! They will jump in their car and go "hell for leather" down the road dancing in and around the other cars that are blocking their way and think if I die then "mai pen rai" and hope that buddha is protecting them.

Understand my point of view now??? No addictions or drugs to cloud the argument - just illustrating my point in a different way to express my feelings that education won't help the matter one jot!!!

Bring in those 2 laws that I mentioned about not overtaking on the inside and traveling up the road the wrong way - and enforce them rigidly by making them pay heavy fines if they do not comply. One last point, the fines must be collected, not by police officers but by a body or court that is clean and transparent with the police just giving out the notices. This money can then be used to compensate families who have lost members through road accidents (only if they are deemed to be the innocent party when it comes to fatalities). Thai's won't listen to "nanny state" education but they will when they have to part with hard earned cash!!!

mmmmm , yeah,... i understand your point ,... even if you are still way off the mark, and the fact that you obviously like to exaggerate makes me think that you are the american

i'm certainly not,.......what did i say to make you think i was "hysterical"?, it looks like YOU are the guy going "off on one", i merely retorted to a rediculous comparison that you have now backed down from, and now you are making another rediculous suggestion, ...........do you realy think the police will just hand out notices ??? don't you know how the police do things here ?? if you did you would know its such a laughable suggestion and with the amount of offences commited the already over burdened courts would find it impossible to deal with even 5% of these offences and the police would be working for their salary of around 10,000b pm only......not to mention all the non-payments to chase up,.....NO,i dont think saying "come on chaps don't you think this type of driving is dangerous" would help, AND I NEVER SAID ANYTHING OF THE SORT !, If you are interested in what i think would be a far better constructive solution to the dangers of thai drivers let me know, .............but it WILL include education , hope this wont offend you as education is clearly against your principles .

Now come on, do you really believe I'm American!!

I haven't backed down I've just dumbed it down for your sake to get away from the addiction 'red herring' that you've introduced into the fray.

The reason that I assumed you was American is that you use the same kind of pathetic and stupid language that you see in Americam movies.

You don't seem to understand anything I write or get completely the wrong message. I try to explain things but find it difficult to reach down to your level of understanding as I can't seem to make things clear enough for your limited comprehension capabilities.

Police set up check points all the time on the main highway to Bangkok and even more so in the provincial town and stop bikes if the rider is not wearing a helmet or their insurance is invalid (if they have any), so why is this different to stopping them for breaking the two 'golden rules'?

I reitterate, education would serve no purpose and to say that education is against my principles is a joke as my wife and I are private school owners and I teach English in our school, so education plays a very big part in our lives - moreso than yours clearly!!

[Histavia]

Buses and coaches in Europe have long been subject to construction regulations - seat belts are of relatively little use in a serious pile-up unless the structure of the coach is compatible.

quite frankly the buses and coaches here offer hardly any protection to their passengers in a collision. The minibuses are little better as their interiors are poorly designed too.

[kimamey]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

There certainly are in the UK on some buses and probably other countries as well. Not compulsory to wear them in the UK as far as I know. Not sure about elsewhere.

[endure]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

There certainly are in the UK on some buses and probably other countries as well. Not compulsory to wear them in the UK as far as I know. Not sure about elsewhere.

Seatbelts are compulsory on all coaches in the UK (but not short distance bus trips) and it's also compulsory to wear them. Not wearing a seatbelt on a coach is committing the same offence as not wearing one in any other vehicle.

[chiangmaiman99]

My sincere condolences to the families.

From what I read in the paper your children were doing what they loved and were with the friends they loved. May we all be so lucky when our time comes.

[Briggsy]

As I thought it would be, this is a semi-legal privately operated bus not operating under the minimum standards imposed on government concession buses. It was far more likely to be driven dangerously, the driver was far less likely to have received sufficient training and far less likely to have had sufficient rest.

These kind of dangerous buses are the ones that operate from Khao San Road. I wonder if this is where the unfortunate lads embarked.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[01322521959]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

THAI drivers AVOIDING hitting a dog?

that's hilarious.

Yes, quite. An image I shall never forget is of walking down my soi on a bright Sunday morning, a truck came round the corner and slowly, slowly mind, went over a little puppy. The bitch ( no not the driver) picked it up and took the now dead puppy to the side of the road and the truck drove on totally unaware of what he or she had done...

[millwall_fan]

Another tragic loss of life on Thailand's roads. R.I.P.

I feel quite sorry for the local stonemasons too - having to get all those names onto the gravestones.

[JetsetBkk]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

THAI drivers AVOIDING hitting a dog?

that's hilarious.

Yes, quite. An image I shall never forget is of walking down my soi on a bright Sunday morning, a truck came round the corner and slowly, slowly mind, went over a little puppy. The bitch ( no not the driver) picked it up and took the now dead puppy to the side of the road and the truck drove on totally unaware of what he or she had done...

You miss the point. If the driver in your story was - as you say - "totally unaware" of running over the puppy then he was not avoiding it, because he didn't see it.

But I also don't avoid dogs if I am driving at speed. And it cost me over 1,000 baht to get my bull bar straightened and wing fixed because of a dog. Better to kill a dog than drive off the road and kill a person.

[ThaiSold]

RIP

[Randee]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

in Britain all Coach Buses have seat belts by law and it is law to use them

Edited July 10, 2011 by Randee

[Berek]

Just back on an overnighter from Udon. First 24 seat vip ride and it wasn't too bad. And it HAD seatbelts. I wore it and so did the wife.

[theblether]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Yes you are right , those stories usually end up by investigation " brake failure" ... I agree no need to jump in conclusion but we all know ,specially those living here ,that mini vans drivers , bus drivers ,pick up drivers rarely care about their passengers ,how many accidents everyday because of excessive speed and inadequate driving behavior ???????

I have been doing 90 visa run for 7 years with no probs,great drivers too.Been travelijng all over Thailand with,u guessed it,no probs.Deaths can happen all over the world,and would be interesting to see the death rate for Thailand and uk,i canty be arsed to look but somebody will.

RIP LADS

UK Population 63 million, Road Deaths 2,946

Thai Population 63 million, Road Deaths circa 40,000

[katana]

Came across this update on the story in today's UK Guardian from the mothers of the three victims:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/16/thailand-mothers-memory-sons

Edited September 17, 2011 by katana

[jko]

Mothers of teenagers killed in Thai bus crash win new hope of justice

London Evening Standard

22 December 2011

Michael Howie

The mother of a London teenager killed in a bus crash in Thailand hailed today a "breakthrough" in a campaign to improve the country's road safety following a meeting with foreign minister Jeremy Browne.

Max Boomgaarden-Cook, Bruno Melling-Firth and Conrad Quashie all died when their coach was hit from behind by a bus as they travelled to the northern capital of Chiang Mai in June.

The boys, all 19, knew each other from school in Dulwich and had saved for months for the "trip of a lifetime".

The three families have mounted a six-month campaign to win government support for efforts to improve road safety in Thailand.

http://www.thisislon...e-of-justice.do

Edited December 24, 2011 by metisdead
Edited for fair use.

[Kilgore Trout]

One problem is that they are not promoted or insisted upon but mainly never used by passengers - even those in the front seats and even by farangs who should know berter

What a silly comment. Why should "farangs" know better? Farang clearly means white people, so are you saying that white people are superior to Asians?

Thais have the ability to prevent accidents and promote road safety and should be held responsible for their actions/inactions just as anyone should.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Kilgore Trout

[ParadiseLost]

I don't disagree with you Wanderlust, however there are often other contributing factors to a crash other than human error, such as vehicles that are not fit for purpose. IE the blame should also be directed to the owner of the bus if it is found to have worn parts such as breaks etc. So often in Thailand people are not held accountable for their greed and blatant lack of due care. Will court proceedings be issued? I doubt it. A large payoff to the BIB is more likely. This means that the STANDARD never improves and vehicles with bald tyre / bad brakes continue to be used, unchecked.

This is the real problem Thailand faces...... corruption and face.

It is much cheaper to bribe one MVT officer than carrying out proper preventative maintenance too...

[ParadiseLost]

One problem is that they are not promoted or insisted upon but mainly never used by passengers - even those in the front seats and even by farangs who should know berter

What a silly comment. Why should "farangs" know better? Farang clearly means white people, so are you saying that white people are superior to Asians?

Thais have the ability to prevent accidents and promote road safety and should be held responsible for their actions/inactions just as anyone should.

[Richard W]

One problem is that they are not promoted or insisted upon but mainly never used by passengers - even those in the front seats and even by farangs who should know berter

What a silly comment. Why should "farangs" know better? Farang clearly means white people, so are you saying that white people are superior to Asians?

Farangs should know better because the use of seatbelts is usually mandatory in most of Farangland.

[redroo]

one mini bus i was on was way to heavy loaded ,it had no sespencion left on the rear tires .every little hole in the road was met with a loud bang!

on another mini bus i had to shake the driver awake several times as he noded off.

and then this fuel truck decides to pull from the left lane on to the right hand lane with no indicators having us all freak out.

cars doing the same thing , again not using their indicators or looking in the rear view mirrors first before moving onto next lane , and then slowing down in the right hand lane.

great adventure if you surive it.

[udonguy]

Thai driving may not be the worst - but it is the most selfish I have seen. RIP

[Kilgore Trout]

One problem is that they are not promoted or insisted upon but mainly never used by passengers - even those in the front seats and even by farangs who should know berter

What a silly comment. Why should "farangs" know better? Farang clearly means white people, so are you saying that white people are superior to Asians?

Farangs should know better because the use of seatbelts is usually mandatory in most of Farangland.

And where may I ask is this mystical place you refer to as "farangland?"

I suggest you use the real nationalities which enforce seat belt laws and use them as your example; not make sweeping generalizations with race implied words.

Edited December 24, 2011 by sbk
flame removed-keep it civil

[planemad]

Personally, I dont believe that driving in Thailand is as bad as many make out. I would suggest a stint in the Middle East, India, Turkey or Greece might make some change their minds. For those statistically minded, here is a link to road deaths per capita. Draw your own conclusions!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

[binjalin]

You are right and I lived in India for over a year - it is not the worst but refer to my post above