Abhisit: It's Us Or Chaos

[Nisa]

You not understand, do you?

Why democrats who was in power for decade did nothing before? why they just wake up now and say> "oh yes we care of everybody"? why they spend billions for army and useless material? why they put the free healthcare just now? why not before? why they take care of the eldery now? why not before? 2 years is sure not enough to educate people, especially when those people are now kids and will vote in 5 or 6 years? why the universities are so expensive for a good education?

Why trust someone who arrived in power after a coup and a government who was not elected? Just for this the thaksin supporters will vote for PTP...

Thaksin is much more clever in this game, he had the time to understand how to come in power, what the people want to hear...now the democrats just wake up...and did nothing before for them...so why choose them?

If you not understand populism you should see his western counterpart : Berlusconi, he is as bad as him and was elected and re elected.

More than that the other problem of thailand is the gap between wealthy and poors, this gap become wider and wider every year

So, after the Democrats did nothing for a decade, Thaksin comes along and does nothing for 5 years. And somehow that's different.

You're right. It's about popularism. Thaksin did nothing, but made it look like he was doing nothing. And they love him for it.

1 he brought in the 30 baht health scheme (saved father in laws life)

2 lent 1 million baht at very low interest rates to all villages

3 virtually took out the drug trade in Thailand

4 paid off Thailands world debt which is now back upto 70,000 baht per head in Thailand thanks to marks tactics.

5 took the country forwards in leaps and bounds thechnology wise.

brought low cost air travel to the masses.

is there any business that is doing better now than what it was under Thaskin, i doubt it.

formed stronger links with Thailands neighbours.

Thaksin's loans have caused a lot of the issues we have seen the last few years. It was truly a very idiotic and self serving thing to do to lend people money with no oversight on how it was to spent or with any concern of how these people could pay back the loans. Wasn't this his same policy in terms of allowing the poor to get an education ... more loans? Didn't he also guarantee at least 1 quality school per district that turned out to only benefit his companies by selling equipment to these schools and causing many districts to go near bankrupt? Yet, it is Abhisit who has pushed for things such as free education, free healthcare and a rise in minimum wage ... all things they actually help the poor as opposed to put them further in debt and cause the country to spend millions collecting and accounting for 30-baht fees.

Let us not forget Thaksin ruled during one of the best global financial times in history but I don't believe Thailand even grew at the average rate the rest of the world had. On the other hand, Abhisit has ruled during one of the worst global climates and Thailand's economy is one of the fastest growing in all of Asia.

No doubt Thaksin did some good things but the man is a criminal and this is factual. He is corrupt and this is also factual. Thousand of Thais were murdered under his direction without hearings, charges, conviction or attempt to arrest these people and in my mind that also makes him a murderer.

[Britannia]

The voters are not stupid.

Pheu Thai voters are.

They know they were better off 5 years ago. That they had more money, more freedom, less poltical upheavel and a better economy.

What proportion of rural folk know about the global financial crisis and its effects on Thailand, and the world financial markets including the causes of oil price fluctuations and its effect on prices of goods? I think a lot of the simple rural folk don't even read or watch world news and simply blame the government for higher living costs when in reality the Thai government did not cause the global financial crisis nor do they have control over world oil prices.

so having a poor education should deny you the right to a democratic vote? i think any farmer or vehicle drivedr using oil based products knows all to well oil price fluctuations mean, they are buying it on a regular basis. and how would poor country folk watch world news and even if they could what difference does it make, i watch world news but it does not effect who i vote for in a national election. Pheu Thai voters can bring up a family on 4000 baht per month could the well educated thais or farnag, i doubt it that makes them smart in my book.

I like your post, it has humor, made me laugh about the 4000, bhat a month, absolutely true though

Makes them smart in my book too

[Nisa]

Well, it would seem you are choosing to be a bit ignorant regarding general life, opportunities and education in the Northeast.

I believe the Pheu Thai party is not the right choice for Thailand but I am not going to be ignorant to the reasons why they have so much support.

I am also not going to be so ignorant to believe it will take at least a generation to see significant changes in the North when it comes to many things such as education.

One of the most ignorant things a person can do is to believe an entire group of people are stupid because they don't have the same views or understanding. For somebody who has the easy ability to research such topics, it would seem foolish to choose to be ignorant of their plight.

I'm not ignorant of their plight. I am aware of what is going on in the power structures of Thailand. Thaksin, with his hired team of lobbyists have been quite successful in harnessing the plight of the naive poor for his own goals (which is not democracy).

Agree in terms of what is going on but sadly manipulating the masses is what most politicians do, all over the world, in order to get elected. However, what Thaksin did while in power was not. An example would be his giving loans to people who can't afford to pay the loans back has made many of these poor and uneducated people more in debt and only see more perceived cash handouts (loans) as the way out of their debt and poverty. Even the offer of free education is not appealing when your kids have no time to go to school because they need to work to help repay the debt of the previous loans. Thaksin's true policy was to keep these people in debt in order to continue to appear to be their savior. The last thing he wanted was to see the poor become educated and self sufficient.

[KRS1]

They will get what they wanted which will be very bad or maybe worse when Army step in to save idiots from their own stupidity.

What a joke! you really think Army will ever do a coup to save thais people??? If they try a new coup this time it will not be with flowers and smiles...and they certainly not want to save them, but certainly wants to save their own money, interests and the people who give them money.

The army is a joke in Thailand, much more than Thaksin.

Thaksin tried to take over the army, that's why there was a coup. Get your facts straight.

[KRS1]

Pretty much any of the scenarios would make large factions angry. If there isn't a party winning an outright majority of seats, then any flash point could be delayed until a coalition was formed. Odds are neither party will win such a majority. However, if PT wins more seats but not a majority (most likely) there is certainly a potential that the redshirt will begin rioting right way (as is their custom) to demand that the coalition goes their way with violence, threats, and intimidation. Kind of like how Bush activists behaved in Florida 2000, but much more potential for violence.

and the custom of the yelow shirts when they did not win was to disrupt the travel plans of 350,000 people around the world by illegally occupying the airports. my freiend and family took 3 days to get home from Phuket including taxi from Phuket to BKK. think he will be cearing on the reds. Suthep has been just as bad a boy as Taskin.as for intimidation well if the yellows dont win the army will probably intervene again with their style of Democracy. if tanks anrent intimmidating what is

The redshirts created mass hysteria within Bangkok, closing down shops, damaging property, and also ruining the tourism business on a more massive scale than the airport closure ever did.

[lannarebirth]

They will get what they wanted which will be very bad or maybe worse when Army step in to save idiots from their own stupidity.

What a joke! you really think Army will ever do a coup to save thais people??? If they try a new coup this time it will not be with flowers and smiles...and they certainly not want to save them, but certainly wants to save their own money, interests and the people who give them money.

The army is a joke in Thailand, much more than Thaksin.

Thaksin tried to take over the army, that's why there was a coup. Get your facts straight.

The power of the Army was significantly on the wane UNTIL Thaksin came into power. HE is the one that repoliticized it.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/GD07Ae01.html

[KRS1]

Agree in terms of what is going on but sadly manipulating the masses is what most politicians do, all over the world, in order to get elected. However, what Thaksin did while in power was not. An example would be his giving loans to people who can't afford to pay the loans back has made many of these poor and uneducated people more in debt and only see more perceived cash handouts (loans) as the way out of their debt and poverty. Even the offer of free education is not appealing when your kids have no time to go to school because they need to work to help repay the debt of the previous loans. Thaksin's true policy was to keep these people in debt in order to continue to appear to be their savior. The last thing he wanted was to see the poor become educated and self sufficient.

Amen

[Ricardo]

What did Thaksin have to do with low cost air travel?

Well, when Tony Fernandez's Air-Asia wanted to open a Thai-subsidiary, Thaksin (who just happened to be PM at the time) was the majority-partner & was thus able to get all sorts of tax-holidays & import-permits & sweet-deals, to help them get started. Of course this harmed the other Thai low-cost carriers, who couldn't access the same deals, not having the same political-connections.

The main Thai airline (Thai Airways International) is mostly government-owned, so a cynic might think that their continuing-policy of high-fares & elderly-planes & cr*p-service was also helpful, to Thai Air-Asia in getting-established at that time.

[whybother]

What did Thaksin have to do with low cost air travel?

Well, when Tony Fernandez's Air-Asia wanted to open a Thai-subsidiary, Thaksin (who just happened to be PM at the time) was the majority-partner & was thus able to get all sorts of tax-holidays & import-permits & sweet-deals, to help them get started. Of course this harmed the other Thai low-cost carriers, who couldn't access the same deals, not having the same political-connections.

The main Thai airline (Thai Airways International) is mostly government-owned, so a cynic might think that their continuing-policy of high-fares & elderly-planes & cr*p-service was also helpful, to Thai Air-Asia in getting-established at that time.

So rather than:

brought low cost air travel to the masses.

he actually jumped on the low cost air travel band wagon, while, once again, enriching his own business while being PM.

Edited July 3, 2011 by whybother

[whybother]

The power of the Army was significantly on the wane UNTIL Thaksin came into power. HE is the one that repoliticized it.

http://www.atimes.co...a/GD07Ae01.html

Interesting article.

The prime minister could have carried on with the de-politicization of the armed forces, which started in 1988, but he decided instead to invert the tendency and set out to integrate the generals rather than confront them. His decision is definitely a step back for Thailand's democratization process, and in the long run may turn out to be a dangerous move - as the analysts have argued. But so far the approach has worked very well for Thaksin, who has managed to appease the generals while staying firmly on top.

It seems the analysts were right.

[KRS1]

Let us not forget that when Thaksin was in power he had his own radio show every week.

The news which was received in some parts of Isaan was very little do to reception.

Thaksin was literally the only thing these poor souls heard from the outside world.

We perceive things on a global level, but for these individuals simply going to bangkok is a whole different world to them. To see a building 30 stories high is simply amazing to some.

These are very nice people, with strong pride and support for what they love. But unfortunately Thaksin and his regime have mislead them in exchange for their votes.

The question should arise why he made most of his work in Isaan, was it to truly help them or was it because it is the most populated region in Thailand , and thats where the votes are?

Another question should be asked as to why he ordered the extra judicial killings of over 3000 people in the south of thailand, where he is not welcome? 3000 people is alot of souls. don't be ignorant and think all 3000 were drug dealers and that drug dealers only live in the south.

He essentially worked to weaken and destabilize the only part of the country that would rise up and fight against him.

[animatic]

1 he brought in the 30 baht health scheme (saved father in laws life) - which is now history because they couldn't pay for it

2 lent 1 million baht at very low interest rates to all villages - to buy votes on a massive scale

3 virtually took out the drug trade in Thailand - in order to put his own dealers in place.

4 paid off Thailands world debt which is now back upto 70,000 baht per head in Thailand thanks to marks tactics. - the exchange rate fixed the economy boosting exports.

5 took the country forwards in leaps and bounds technology wise.- censored media, newspapers and websites. AIS which is was Thaksins company had the worst reception in my area. But advertising said it was best - it wasn't

brought low cost air travel to the masses. - as did about 2-3 other companies

is there any business that is doing better now than what it was under Thaskin, i doubt it. - yes many

formed stronger links with Thailands neighbours. - pushed for loans for burma , so he could get a cut out of it.

Brought in the 30 baht health care that was Chuans idea before.

It is now FREE HEALTH CARE. 30 baht didn't cover the administration work to process the 30- baht so they dopped it. Free for all marginal health care.

He gave 1 million baht to village head to play with to buy their loyalty,

and the Thai tax payers paid for it. TRT, PPP, PTP never paid for any of this, the tax paying Thais paid for Thaksin to manipulate the non tax paying Thais to back him.

The drug trade went quiet, but came back during his time.

He refinanced the IMF debt, to an organization that Thailand is a founding member of, The IMF.

Thailand still pays into the IMF fund on a % of national revenue basis. But still pays off the original debt that was refinanced longer term to Temasek, but got the IMF scrutiny off of Thaksins financial manipulations. In the end the country pays more to Singapore. but less yearly and with less scrutiny.

Thaksin was right there one step behind Chavalit when he ran the Assian Tiger Ecconomy into the ground in weeks from playing with the exchange rate, The rode the resurgence of Asian into office and through his term. But that was flaggin by the time he was ousted.

Hew changed laws to favor his own company over others while concealing the ownership and the whole region went up in technology. Stgill Thailand can't get 3G, soe Thaksin didn't exactly work any wonders. He also sued into submission anyone who criticized him, or sent the bully boys out to silence them.

Many companies used the Packer Air Virgin Air methods to bring cheaper air travel.

Thai is stil damned expensive.

Many companies are doing well, though Thaksins multiple attempts to regain power has harmed many companies. Thaksin was so worried about his own fortunes that he never bothered to instruct Somchai to look at the world economic colapse.

The Thaksin Legend is just that; a legend and well tended fabrication overlaid on reality.

History will not look kindly on that Khun T.

Edited July 3, 2011 by animatic

[lovelomsak]

Is the statement "It's us or chaos" a veiled threat perhaps?

[CockneyGit]

Abhisit: It's Us Or Chaos

Looks like it's "Chaos" then..!!

[letitbe]

Abhisit: It's Us Or Chaos

Looks like it's "Chaos" then..!!

yes in medium long term it will be