Land Dept Claims 90% Of Prime Phuket Land Controlled By Foreigners

[ThaiLife]

Phuket Property ' 90pc Controlled by Expats' Claim Rejected by Expert

PHUKET: The Director of Phuket's Land Office, Paitoon Lertkai, today rejected an artice that claimed up to 90 percent of prime beachfront land on Phuket was illegally held by foreigners through Thai nominees.

''Last Friday I sent a list of 269 companies to the Business Development Office on Phuket for checking because these companies have land and have foreign involvement,'' he said.

''But the law still says that foreigners cannot own land, except for condominiums.''

The fuss about who owns Phuket's coastal land is a replay of precisely the same suggestion in September 2009, when it was proved to be untrue.

There is no reason why the situation has changed in the past two years, when property purchases on Phuket by foreigners have been lower than they were before 2009.

Khun Paitoon said he suspected the article was the Phuket equivalent of what's known in the west as a ''tabloid beat-up''.

Here's what Phuketwan published back in 2009 to disprove the same claim. There is no evidence that much has changed since then:

WHO owns Phuket's beachfront? That's a topic to capture the imagination as questions are raised about ''control'' of the island's prime holiday seafront.

Phuketwan asked Patong local tessaban council that question and we were provided with this list of resorts and owners along the island's prime holiday strip.

Ownership and so-called ''control'' vary at other popular beaches but in most cases, although Western brands and managers are often involved, the land remains firmly in Thai hands through families, or public companies.

Here are the 29 beachfront (or very close) resorts and their owners as listed by the tessaban, plus the number of rooms.

1. Sea View Patong (Thai owner) 141;

2. Anatika Boutique Hotel (Amarit Committee) 32;

3. Baan Boa Resort (Kerakai Suthsmmetha) 46;

4. QVC Patong Beach (QVC Company) 18;

5. New Swiss Hotel (New Swiss, Thai owner) 44;

6. The Bliss (Phuket Seagull Grand Company) 36;

7. Seagull Home (Seagull Home Company) 32;

8. Sea Pearl Beach (Sea Pearl Condotel) 55;

9. Merlin Hotel (Patong Merlin Company) 385;

10. Holiday Inn (LC Thailand Company) 412;

11. Horizon Beach Resort (Patong Pinongsub) 96;

12. Royal Palm Resort (NS Trading) 66;

13. Baan Laimai Beach Resort (Patong Shopping Company and Phuket Kebsub Business) 76;

14. Banthai Beach Resort (Banthai Hotel and Resort Company) 217;

15. Patong Beach Hotel (Patong Beach Company) 245;

16. Patong Inn (Supachok Lakapan) 38;

17. Tropicana Hotel (The New Paradise Tropicana, foreign rent) 79;

18. Safari Hotel (STP Group) 35;

19. Patong Bay Garden (Pisona Company) 71;

20. La Flora (STP Group) 37;

21. Cabana Resort (Hardsaineng Company) 76;

22. Thara Patong Beach Resort (Thara Patong Company) 196;

23. Phuket Graceland Resort ( Phunamkert Company) 460;

24. B-Lay Tong (soon to open);

25. Patong Paragon (local owner, foreign rent) xx;

26. Novotel Resort (Yee Teng Company) 215;

27. Diamond Cliff Resort (Eakwanit family) 333;

28. Patong Lodge (Surapong Pongnisorn) 144;

29. Blue Marine (Tan Lam Tong Company) xx;

30. Kalim Sunset (Hang Tong Prayoon) xx.

This version of ownership in 2009 was unchalleged then and is likely to remain unchallenged in 2011.

Link

[ralfbkk]

I dont understand why this topic is broadcasted in the "Breaking News" ?! Why would that be a breaking news? Even the subject is misleading, since the "news" applies to Phuket only.

[Bluedan]

The Land office is hardly going to agree with this assertion, since it is de facto foreign ownership of land which allows its officials who earn a very modest salary to own expensive cars, jewelry, etc

[Maseratimartin]

There is a law...only the strong will survive...and even it takes time the faces in Thailand get more and more white (and it is not because of whitening cream!)

I have a lovely thai wife and together we have a daughter....white like milk....she is thai....nobody can stopp this trend!

All we buy and build up is in her name and will help her to have a good live.

These words of some small politicians are nothing more than warm air....

The people who are in controll are in the background and don't show their faces.

We live in a time of globalization and capitalismus....money dictates....

As one member already mentioned....there are other countries around....if the farang leaves thailand goes down!

[jitenshaman]

So 90% of Phuket prime land is owned by bad farangs...well, it then must logically follow that 90% of the tuk tuk drivers and jet ski mafia are operating on that prime beachfront land, charging those ridiculous prices and ripping people off right and left....and, heaven forbid, it must be those farang owners of the land that are actually employing these thugs or taking a percentage of their takings for operating on their property. Wow, great work by the Thai government, now they can safely announce to all the Ambassadors and Consulates that Phuket is once again a safe and great place to visit, and that all of its prior problems were actually caused by farangs, which they are now taking care of.

[Tokay]

Tips for Thais:

1) Get a better education.

2) Get a better job / Create a real business (food carts don't count)

3) Learn what to do with the money you make and how to invest it.

4) Don't sell your land to foreigners in the first place.

5) Buy more land so foreigners can't. Aim for prime property.

6) Stop buying homes/land in other countries if you don't want foreigners to buy homes/land in yours.

7) If you can't make it happen, put a sock in it and move out of the way for those who can.

Problem solved.

[tsigane]

1 billion rai = 1.6 mil square km

Size of Thailand is 513,120 km²

Am I missing some decimal point somewhere?

[moto77]

Oh god, what idiots.

Let's see, first off, the most powerful country in world will let anyone buy land in their country...have forever...and still the most powerful country in the world...

HAHAA... ya, and you don't even have to be visa eligible. But you can definitely buy it...

[Tokay]

As one member already mentioned....there are other countries around....if the farang leaves thailand goes down!

Without the help of foreigners, be it investors or who Thailand exports to, they would not be any better off than Myanmar or a poverty stricken Cambodia in the 1980's.

Thailand can't even have peaceful elections. Society as a whole is broken and this is what holds them down and continues their trend as a "developing country." They will always be a developing country until they start to look beyond their borders and at the rest of the world, ditching their xenophobic tendencies.

It's a globalized world now. Times have changed. Thailand hasn't.

[TIT]

Let me guess.......Government to 'crackdown' on foreigners yet again?

If only they used figures that were somewhere nearer reality then people wouldn't laugh at reports like this as much.

[Tokay]

Shenanigans 365 days a year, 24 hours a day.

[geezer553]

90% where do they get these stats---when purchasing a business property as a farrang-we buy the lease say for 3 years-along with a monthly rental charge along with possability of key money also payable,.if it was not for the farrang businessman thailand would not be able to survive!!! puket,pattaya,koi samui,-no holidaymakers very quite although low season at the moment. i believe the majority of bussiness in thailand are struggling "thailand property markets will crash" where a property costing 2mill baht 2 years ago would cost around 28k today the same propery valued at 40k due to exchange rates. these same businesses will continue to struggle as the recession takes hold

within 12/18 months. prices will fall dramatically in thailand. it has to without tourism and exports no country can survive.... so be carefull in what you wish for mr charoenpanlt

----dont worry about the farrang,worry about the corruption which is rife throughout thailand- the amount of thai bussiness which operate without a licence-enough said!!!!!

[thaiwanderer]

Tips for Thais:

1) Get a better education.

2) Get a better job / Create a real business (food carts don't count)

3) Learn what to do with the money you make and how to invest it.

4) Don't sell your land to foreigners in the first place.

5) Buy more land so foreigners can't. Aim for prime property.

6) Stop buying homes/land in other countries if you don't want foreigners to buy homes/land in yours.

7) If you can't make it happen, put a sock in it and move out of the way for those who can.

Problem solved.

.....or allow foreigners to 'buy' land they cannot own and always keep things grey?

tips for foreigners:

1) let go of the bitterness

2) don't assume the wealth of Thais you associate with is indicative

[sydneyjed]

This seems to spring up every couple of years(or election time)...What exactly would happen if the Phuket/Bangkok/Chiang Mai Lands Office made a 'land grab'and took properties off foreign hands?We all know don't we? ..Property and land prices would go to the wall and property investment would dry up in a heartbeat...Regulated fear is all they are good at here as per usual...

[Pib]

August of what year for what would be a very controversial law change, probably tons of lawsuits, etc. Heck, from now to August there will probably be nothing but continued fighting on who won the election.

In response to the problem, new legislation is currently being drafted and expected to be made law in August

[personchester]

I wonder how this will affect married couples. The authorities know that when a foreigner marries a poor Thai woman, and they buy a house together, which is put in her name, that the money came from the foreigner. I suppose we all have to find ways to make it look like the money came from her. The silly consequence is that if the land is confiscated, the Thai wife will lose both her home and husband. .....

If a Foreigner marries a Thai girl and they buy land/house in the Thai Wifes name, the foreigner has to sign a document at the Land Office (when the House / Land is transferred from 1 owner to another) that states, that the money to buy the house/land was from the Wife before they got married. So I don't see a problem there.

The land office is of course aware of the fact that in most cases the signing of those documents stating that the money used for the land purchase is not, was not, the foreigners money, but notwithstanding this, the land purchase is accepted and recorded in the sole name of the Thai girl (one's wife or GF)

Nevertheless, the authorities have the option, if they wish to kick foreigners out, to declare at any given time that the signing of those documents was a fraudulent act (a lie) and the land purchase is then regarded as illegal, as a result the state will claim the property, the foreigner will be deported, and the Thai girl can either leave with her fellow, or go back to her past.

Fortunately, as far as I know, that has never happened, and I am sure it wont happen, but in can happen because it is generally known that this law does exist.

[Seanextra]

This sounds like the Real Estate Version of the Jet Ski Scam ! Stupid Monkey Country!

[KeyserSoze01]

@^#^$@@^ idiots have made foreign property ownership dam_n-near impossible in Thailand, even by proxy. Now they want to "STEAL" that property which has already been developed with FOREIGN funds. I know a couple hotel owners in Phuket who will just love hearing this news, along with their Thai wives and business partners.

[osiboy]

A politician coming up with such an anti-foreigner agenda in Germany and most other parts of Europe would immediately be branded a NAZI and be out of his job after a big public outcry would rumble through the media.

This is one of the days where I think that the Thais would like it best if all foreigners would just land at the airport, toss their cash, credit cards and valuables onto the runway, take a photo and then bugger off back home. Wouldn't such travel be a nice niche? You would not even need a VIsa since the airplane would simply make a u-turn on the runway and bring you back to where you came from.

This all is again a grim reminder to the fact that us foreigners here in Thailand are second class people to them, not worth a toss... Why not worldwide do an eye-for-an-eye retribution and strip all Thai people off the land they have been granted to legally own by a 100% and ban >only Thai people< worldwide in all countries from owning land, threatening them to be deported and punished? Wouldn't that be just fair after all that "Farangs get out of here" bullshit Thai authorities come up with on a frequent basis?

I'm here since 20 years now and even though it would ruin my own business, I strongly believe that Thailand would really deserve that people of all nations would suddenly realize how much most of the nicely smiling Thais dislike (or should I say hate?) foreigners and as a result never return here again, and bring their money elsewhere. A total collaps of the Thai economy as a result of their stupid ongoing anti-farang-agenda - wouldn't you just love to see that?

What I believe is that 90% of prime Phuket land is in the hands of filthy rich Thai/Chinese families... and I'm quite certain that I am as close to the truth as one can be. What they want is the remaining 10%... Give us white people a break, would you, please?

well said catweazle;,... i totally agree with your points, and moreover, i have come to hear and see the pessimism of "farang"in thailand especially those living here, the realisation of the false crocodile smiles , and the the fact that thais eat,sleep,and dream only money , its time european countries started to turn the tables and take ownership of houses and land away from thais living in the west, an eye for an eye........ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ! without foriegners thailand would be ten years behind what it is today,and thats still 15 years behind the west, they want western teachers, technology,quality,standards ,designs,education,but are happy to see hundreds of foreigners loose a life of savings to a thai overnight , no interest in justice what so ever, ............ all farangs want is a level playing field , thailand is the most racist society i have ever seen from the inside out from them looking down on isaan and simlpy happy to rob foriegners !.............. whats hard for me to undrestand is why i still love the place !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! babababoa !

[thaiwanderer]

anyone who complied with the law has nothing to fear from enforcement (though i doubt anything substative will actually happen)

Edited July 2, 2011 by thaiwanderer

[TackyToo]

so the 40 people who own 12% of Thailand's wealth want a bit more?

i seem to remember something like this emerging from Phuket before - methinks some official has got a bit of a complex? (forgive the pun)

By the way- who owns most of the prime property in Bangkok? I wonder if this put the average Thai in a disadvantage too?

Edited July 2, 2011 by TackyToo

[maidu]

16 years ago, I was in Cay Caulker, a tiny tourist island off Belize. An American had been running a popular bar there - it was just a round open-sided building with a grass roof. One day I showed up, and the whole place was gone. I asked a local what happened. He said local authorities had challenged the bar owner's ownership of the place, so the American simply backed a truck up, took all the appliances and furniture, and then razed (took down) the place. Building materials all over the ground.

Would be interesting if something similar happened in Phuket town, when push comes to shove.

Most progressive western countries encourage foreign investments.They do not carry a chip on their shoulder like the insecure Elite Chinese Thai that is scared and blame their short comings on the Farang.

is there a pun in there somewhere?

[metroman]

Running them off conveniently makes the land free to be bought up cheap by locals powers, now that the nasty farangs have paid to develop and build in it. Some things never change.

Apparently the local powers are eying the property.

It is not clear if farangs or foreigners own the land. Farangs are strictly Caucasian whereas foreigners can mean Chinese, Japanese, Indian or Korean.

[theblether]

A politician coming up with such an anti-foreigner agenda in Germany and most other parts of Europe would immediately be branded a NAZI and be out of his job after a big public outcry would rumble through the media.

This is one of the days where I think that the Thais would like it best if all foreigners would just land at the airport, toss their cash, credit cards and valuables onto the runway, take a photo and then bugger off back home. Wouldn't such travel be a nice niche? You would not even need a VIsa since the airplane would simply make a u-turn on the runway and bring you back to where you came from.

This all is again a grim reminder to the fact that us foreigners here in Thailand are second class people to them, not worth a toss... Why not worldwide do an eye-for-an-eye retribution and strip all Thai people off the land they have been granted to legally own by a 100% and ban >only Thai people< worldwide in all countries from owning land, threatening them to be deported and punished? Wouldn't that be just fair after all that "Farangs get out of here" bullshit Thai authorities come up with on a frequent basis?

I'm here since 20 years now and even though it would ruin my own business, I strongly believe that Thailand would really deserve that people of all nations would suddenly realize how much most of the nicely smiling Thais dislike (or should I say hate?) foreigners and as a result never return here again, and bring their money elsewhere. A total collaps of the Thai economy as a result of their stupid ongoing anti-farang-agenda - wouldn't you just love to see that?

What I believe is that 90% of prime Phuket land is in the hands of filthy rich Thai/Chinese families... and I'm quite certain that I am as close to the truth as one can be. What they want is the remaining 10%... Give us white people a break, would you, please?

well said catweazle;,... i totally agree with your points, and moreover, i have come to hear and see the pessimism of "farang"in thailand especially those living here, the realisation of the false crocodile smiles , and the the fact that thais eat,sleep,and dream only money , its time european countries started to turn the tables and take ownership of houses and land away from thais living in the west, an eye for an eye........ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ! without foriegners thailand would be ten years behind what it is today,and thats still 15 years behind the west, they want western teachers, technology,quality,standards ,designs,education,but are happy to see hundreds of foreigners loose a life of savings to a thai overnight , no interest in justice what so ever, ............ all farangs want is a level playing field , thailand is the most racist society i have ever seen from the inside out from them looking down on isaan and simlpy happy to rob foriegners !.............. whats hard for me to undrestand is why i still love the place !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! babababoa !

If everyone did the sensible thing and didn't invest in a guaranteed losing bet, didn't pump their hard earned money into improving infrastructure and property development, didn't invest in businesses that they can never hope to fully legally own or control.........

Do you think the Thai authorities would have to change the rules to encourage foreign investment? Of course they would.

However we have thousands upon thousands of people risking their life savings on a fantastical bet, one that they would never tolerate in their own country, and the list of people losing their shirt and the tragic consequences is endless.

Who in their right mind would put all of the money into a business in the West, then give 51% control to someone else who hasn't invested a coin? This is ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous....anyone reading this forum that has done this should go look in the mirror.

So what now is the incentive for the Thai authorities to change the law? There are plane loads of GOOD HEARTED BUT NAIVE Farangs making their way to the country every week, many of whom are pumping every coin they have into this country without any form of redress or control.

The answer is.....there is no incentive for a change to the law, so you better accept that, and if you put your hand in your pocket you better be ready for the consequences.

Farangs parking brains at the airport again.........

Edited July 2, 2011 by theblether

[rich54321]

Thailand’s positive characteristics, friendly people and hospitality made it an attractive place for foreigners to want to live, work and acquire land.

Ha ha ha - work??? acquire land errrm! in a Thai name - you can never own land - want to live - with all the reports this year it must be the most dangerous place in Thailand to live

[regfrancis]

That's a good Idea!! Sell people land then take there money and take the land back so you can sell it again.!! Why didn't I think of that, Such talent

[rich54321]

A politician coming up with such an anti-foreigner agenda in Germany and most other parts of Europe would immediately be branded a NAZI and be out of his job after a big public outcry would rumble through the media.

This is one of the days where I think that the Thais would like it best if all foreigners would just land at the airport, toss their cash, credit cards and valuables onto the runway, take a photo and then bugger off back home. Wouldn't such travel be a nice niche? You would not even need a VIsa since the airplane would simply make a u-turn on the runway and bring you back to where you came from.

This all is again a grim reminder to the fact that us foreigners here in Thailand are second class people to them, not worth a toss... Why not worldwide do an eye-for-an-eye retribution and strip all Thai people off the land they have been granted to legally own by a 100% and ban >only Thai people< worldwide in all countries from owning land, threatening them to be deported and punished? Wouldn't that be just fair after all that "Farangs get out of here" bullshit Thai authorities come up with on a frequent basis?

I'm here since 20 years now and even though it would ruin my own business, I strongly believe that Thailand would really deserve that people of all nations would suddenly realize how much most of the nicely smiling Thais dislike (or should I say hate?) foreigners and as a result never return here again, and bring their money elsewhere. A total collaps of the Thai economy as a result of their stupid ongoing anti-farang-agenda - wouldn't you just love to see that?

What I believe is that 90% of prime Phuket land is in the hands of filthy rich Thai/Chinese families... and I'm quite certain that I am as close to the truth as one can be. What they want is the remaining 10%... Give us white people a break, would you, please?

well said catweazle;,... i totally agree with your points, and moreover, i have come to hear and see the pessimism of "farang"in thailand especially those living here, the realisation of the false crocodile smiles , and the the fact that thais eat,sleep,and dream only money , its time european countries started to turn the tables and take ownership of houses and land away from thais living in the west, an eye for an eye........ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ! without foriegners thailand would be ten years behind what it is today,and thats still 15 years behind the west, they want western teachers, technology,quality,standards ,designs,education,but are happy to see hundreds of foreigners loose a life of savings to a thai overnight , no interest in justice what so ever, ............ all farangs want is a level playing field , thailand is the most racist society i have ever seen from the inside out from them looking down on isaan and simlpy happy to rob foriegners !.............. whats hard for me to undrestand is why i still love the place !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! babababoa !

Farangs parking brains at the airport again.........

If everyone did the sensible thing and didn't invest in a guaranteed losing bet, didn't pump their hard earned money into improving infrastructure and property development, didn't invest in businesses that they can never hope to fully legally own or control.........

Do you think the Thai authorities would have to change the rules to encourage foreign investment? Of course they would.

However we have thousands upon thousands of people risking their life savings on a fantastical bet, one that they would never tolerate in their own country, and the list of people losing their shirt and the tragic consequences is endless.

Who in their right mind would put all of the money into a business in the West, then give 51% control to someone else who hasn't invested a coin? This is ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous....anyone reading this forum that has done this should go look in the mirror.

So what now is the incentive for the Thai authorities to change the law? There are plane loads of GOOD HEARTED BUT NAIVE Farangs making their way to the country every week, many of whom are pumping every coin they have into this country without any form of redress or control.

The answer is.....there is no incentive for a change to the law, so you better accept that, and if you put your hand in your pocket you better be ready for the consequences.

The truth in a nutshell - well done! however as you say there are many who come and invest and loose

[seriouseats]

Id love to see a thai company manage to build and run hotels like hilton and the likes.. (impsosible).. will be fun to see them kick out all the big hotels? a pure thailand, with 0 visitor, all the violent south people driven to suicide with the dead economy and then a civil revolution and to finish, thailand back into a life of middle africa.

Edited July 2, 2011 by seriouseats

[bluesmith]

oh my budda I am going to take this property and fly away home with it .

I thought that if you you brought a property through a thai company you only own 49% you do not have o be Einstein to work out who it belongs to

[Tanaka]

I wonder how this will affect married couples. The authorities know that when a foreigner marries a poor Thai woman, and they buy a house together, which is put in her name, that the money came from the foreigner. I suppose we all have to find ways to make it look like the money came from her. The silly consequence is that if the land is confiscated, the Thai wife will lose both her home and husband. Then the rich can buy the land at a bargain basement price. Have the officials been on a study trip to Zimbabwe, by any chance?

I'm not clear about your line of thought on this one. They are talking about investors on larger scales, manipulating group managers who will own 50% of the land, and the foreigner owns 50% as a partnership. They are talking large scale land buy outs, not a little man with a Thai wife. A Thai wife will own 100% of the land and house bought by her husband, so there is no issue of risk. They would not confiscate land that is owned 100% outright by a Thai wether her husband was English or from Timbuktu. That is their argument. The larger groups, such as the German conglomerates who own half of Hua Hin, and the Russian conglomerates who own 60% of Pattaya are the ones they are scrutinising, and to add - I agree with this move. Cool down! :jap:

-m.

I am also not clear on your line of thought either, so the retired individual who does not have a Thai wife and uses a Thai company with nominees to hold the land his house is on, is safe?

No....that is exactly who they are targeting. It seems harsh to be fair, and to what extent they will pursue that individual will probably be down to luck, or lack of. However the root of the problem is that foreigners cannot be in control of land in Thailand, effective or otherwise. There have been recent reports of people in Phuket being bled dry of their assets as the 51% shareholder nominee has salted the assets away. This is the brutal reality, if you give 51% nominee shareholding to someone else you may as well give them 100% and get on your knees and pray.

To invest in Thailand under this law is ridiculous, anyone in the process of doing so, please stop. Anyone who has, please look carefully at how you are going to extricate yourself. There's no point huffing and puffing, this is harsh and brutal reality, you control nothing, and risk everything.

This is not quite accurate. A company can own land legally but it has to be a real, working company. Forming a company with the sole intention of owning land is illegal. And it is possible to control the land, to grow it and benefit from what it gives. And also to build on it. Look at a form for a usufruct.