Land Dept Claims 90% Of Prime Phuket Land Controlled By Foreigners

[yoshiwara]

Foreigners that finance these lands already know of the laws regarding ownerships of buildings and lands in Thailand, otherwise why would they use Thais to front the ownership for them?

I believe the statements made by the Land Department and that this is widespread across the whole of Thailand.

Even on Thai visa many are quite open about the fact that they are the real purchasers of buildings, land business premises and farms. This is because so far the authorities have not been strictly enforcing the laws regarding foreigners and land ownership.

This is not something new, these laws have been in place for decades, so those that do break the laws of Thailand, whether they agree with them or not, do so at their own risk and there is no point in whinging just because the authorities suddenly decide to enforce these laws.

In most cases here in Thailand foreigners have no claims on the homes, business premises or farms and the land they build them on.

If a foreigner is willing to gamble on paying for land, which they can never own in a Thai name, then more fool them.

Let me make some facts clear to you:

In most cases if a farang male is married to a Thai female and land and property is purchased, it has to be proven to be the wife’s money. If the couple are not married, then it belongs 100% to the girlfriend, as the farang cannot make a claim to something that legally he cannot own.

If you don`t believe this, then suck it and see.

All of this is very true and a useful antidote to some of the hysterical posturings read above.

The bottom line is that every so often there will be a political blast objecting to de facto foreigner ownership and a demand that something should be done. To date nothing. Mind you, the screeching alone is worth the price of admission. Foreigners buying know the rules. They have discounted the risk. But it is still there.

[Bruce1]

So they don't want foreign investment? Other countries are happy to welcome foreign investment, but use the rules to ensure its used productively. However, the Thais just go all paranoid. If there is a problem, its not because of foreign investors - its bevcause of corrupt local officials failing to apply the rules properly so the investment benefits Thailand. They should look in the mirror.

[farang000999]

Im not sure what context the quote was made in, but 90% of land in Phuket is not commercial so it would seem that they are also alluding to farang owned personal non commercial properties and not just resort developments. regardless of whether this is just political folly or aimed only at other rich chinesse or what not, bottom line is that farang who believe that they are legally protected under any silly loophole should be willing to lose any such investment.

[farang000999]

All of this is very true and a useful antidote to some of the hysterical posturings read above.

The bottom line is that every so often there will be a political blast objecting to de facto foreigner ownership and a demand that something should be done. To date nothing. Mind you, the screeching alone is worth the price of admission. Foreigners buying know the rules. They have discounted the risk. But it is still there.

It has occurred many many times throughout history though.

[evanson]

It never ceases to amaze me that when this subject arises from time to time, they always hurl the accusations at the purchasers of land and never the sellers.

Please note if you purchased your land using a Thai company, this company will have gone through an approval process. If approved it will have been stamped as approved by an agent of the Thai government and they will have accepted the fee.

Then when the purchase was carried through, the process would be stamped and approved by an agent of the Thai Govt. and they will have accepted the fee and any taxes due.

People who "mouth off" like this particular individual should start looking inwards at their own culpability in this matter and consider the can of worms they might stir up for themselves if they decide to do anything about it.

If they want to change the law now to affect future purchases that's up to them but they should not look retrospectively at past aquisitions where they have clearly been complicite by approval.

I used to in the past get upset by the fact that so many foreigners owned so much of England. Then I thought about it and recognized that they couldn't pack it in a suitcase and take it away. It's still England and they are just taking care of part of it for a while and paying for the privelege.

Cheers.

Ah sanity.

[zydeco]

Dear Sriracha Charoenpanit,

FYI: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/257672-finished-house-picture-views-and-gardens-welcome/page__hl__villagefarang

[KRS1]

Id love to see a thai company manage to build and run hotels like hilton and the likes.. (impsosible).. will be fun to see them kick out all the big hotels? a pure thailand, with 0 visitor, all the violent south people driven to suicide with the dead economy and then a civil revolution and to finish, thailand back into a life of middle africa.

The Hotel chain Dusit is a Thai conglomerate and have locations worldwide.

Why would any legitimate foreigner in Thailand need to own more than one house in any given city, if he already knows the law?

[KRS1]

XENOPHOBIA for fun and profit. It comes to show how hospitable Thais are...

Or smart. Average thai wage is 15,000 baht per month compared to 90,000 baht for a mid level western worker.

It's clear to see that if real estate was allowed to be sold to foreigners, Thai people simply could not afford to buy land after speculation takes place. Yes thai's themselves also speculate on land prices, but it is nothing in comparison to what a western source of funding can achieve on a commercial basis.

[elektrified]

Foreigners that finance these lands already know of the laws regarding ownerships of buildings and lands in Thailand, otherwise why would they use Thais to front the ownership for them?

I believe the statements made by the Land Department and that this is widespread across the whole of Thailand.

Even on Thai visa many are quite open about the fact that they are the real purchasers of buildings, land business premises and farms. This is because so far the authorities have not been strictly enforcing the laws regarding foreigners and land ownership.

This is not something new, these laws have been in place for decades, so those that do break the laws of Thailand, whether they agree with them or not, do so at their own risk and there is no point in whinging just because the authorities suddenly decide to enforce these laws.

In most cases here in Thailand foreigners have no claims on the homes, business premises or farms and the land they build them on.

If a foreigner is willing to gamble on paying for land, which they can never own in a Thai name, then more fool them.

Let me make some facts clear to you:

In most cases if a farang male is married to a Thai female and land and property is purchased, it has to be proven to be the wife’s money. If the couple are not married, then it belongs 100% to the girlfriend, as the farang cannot make a claim to something that legally he cannot own.

If you don`t believe this, then suck it and see.

Agreed. The sooner they confiscate the land and deport these foreigners who are breaking the laws here, the better. Everyone knows they can't own land here. The ones that have Thai nominees know they are breaking the law and you are right, some openly brag on Thai Visa about what they are doing. It's about time the government cracks down on them and grabs the land and sends them home packing.

[pkspeaker]

I havn't heard any "ill-informed warmongering and hate-speech" against foreigners by either phua thai or the democrats, and no government on earth grants foreigners equality, you don't live here on a tourest or non-immigrant visa that you renew every few mon ths or year and then get 'equality' with the nationals..i'll remind you that it is actually possible for a foreigner to become a Thai citizen-it's just not very easy-you have to become totally fluent in the language and become immersed in the culture-then get interviewed a bunch of times and then more buracracy-but it is possible..if you want equality you will need to do all that.

Well, well well .. if such new law is being drafted by the current government, if the current government allows this kind of ill-informed warmongering and hate-speech against the foreigners than ... as much as Mr. Thaksin appears dis-likable to me, I'm going to ask all my Thai "family" who still don't know who to vote for, to cast their votes for PT later today. Democrats didn't do anything for Farang's equality in their term, they didn't manage to heal, inspire and move the country and it may be time for them to go.

[pkspeaker]

This is true, I know someone who works in a downtown bangkok office and he told me the same thing, foreigner staff at the company are awarded higher wages than Thai workers, maybe it's because they have to live here instead of their own country or maybe it's because they have unique skills or both but many companies do it.

XENOPHOBIA for fun and profit. It comes to show how hospitable Thais are...

Or smart. Average thai wage is 15,000 baht per month compared to 90,000 baht for a mid level western worker.

It's clear to see that if real estate was allowed to be sold to foreigners, Thai people simply could not afford to buy land after speculation takes place. Yes thai's themselves also speculate on land prices, but it is nothing in comparison to what a western source of funding can achieve on a commercial basis.

[techboy]

I have wanted to get a place in this country for years but cannot sort out the laws. Have even heard that it is now legal for foreigners to own land. Have heard about 100yr leases or legal condo buys. Does anyone really know what is really legal? And if Thai realtors have illegally sold land to unsuspecting foreigners how can you justify punishing them rather than the people that cheated them? What is what?

[InterestedObserver]

I have wanted to get a place in this country for years but cannot sort out the laws. Have even heard that it is now legal for foreigners to own land. Have heard about 100yr leases or legal condo buys. Does anyone really know what is really legal? And if Thai realtors have illegally sold land to unsuspecting foreigners how can you justify punishing them rather than the people that cheated them? What is what?

1. If you are willing to invest 40 million baht in a BOI approved scheme then you may be able to own up to 1 Rai of land for a house.

2. The maximum lease period is 30 years at any one time.

3. Condominiums can be legally owned by foreigners.

4. Caveat emptor or buyer beware!

[techboy]

LOL....anyone who invests 1 cent in the idiotic Country is a complete numbskull..from the stockmarket down to the dirt you will be screwed 1 way or another

Oh really? Maybe it is just a numbskull that does not know how to invest. Example: Go and open up yahoo finance and check out Advanced Public Co Ltd. (AVIFY.PK). They run DTAC. Up better than 12% in 3-weeks. I love you Thailand!

[ZZZ]

It never ceases to amaze me that when this subject arises from time to time, they always hurl the accusations at the purchasers of land and never the sellers.

Please note if you purchased your land using a Thai company, this company will have gone through an approval process. If approved it will have been stamped as approved by an agent of the Thai government and they will have accepted the fee.

Then when the purchase was carried through, the process would be stamped and approved by an agent of the Thai Govt. and they will have accepted the fee and any taxes due.

People who "mouth off" like this particular individual should start looking inwards at their own culpability in this matter and consider the can of worms they might stir up for themselves if they decide to do anything about it.

If they want to change the law now to affect future purchases that's up to them but they should not look retrospectively at past aquisitions where they have clearly been complicite by approval.

I used to in the past get upset by the fact that so many foreigners owned so much of England. Then I thought about it and recognized that they couldn't pack it in a suitcase and take it away. It's still England and they are just taking care of part of it for a while and paying for the privelege.

Cheers.

Ah sanity.

No sanity.

If you have actually read the documents you sign when you form a company and use a company to buy land you will know that you sign and promise that you have followed all the applicable laws. There is no signature by the government or their agents saying that they have checked and confirmed that all laws have been followed!! The government may or may not check that some conditions have been followed but it's up to you to make sure that everything is legal.

If you have used nominees and not real investors to form a company and this is found out at a later stage you will be responsible for the consequences.

[thaiwanderer]

It never ceases to amaze me that when this subject arises from time to time, they always hurl the accusations at the purchasers of land and never the sellers.

Please note if you purchased your land using a Thai company, this company will have gone through an approval process. If approved it will have been stamped as approved by an agent of the Thai government and they will have accepted the fee.

Then when the purchase was carried through, the process would be stamped and approved by an agent of the Thai Govt. and they will have accepted the fee and any taxes due.

People who "mouth off" like this particular individual should start looking inwards at their own culpability in this matter and consider the can of worms they might stir up for themselves if they decide to do anything about it.

If they want to change the law now to affect future purchases that's up to them but they should not look retrospectively at past aquisitions where they have clearly been complicite by approval.

I used to in the past get upset by the fact that so many foreigners owned so much of England. Then I thought about it and recognized that they couldn't pack it in a suitcase and take it away. It's still England and they are just taking care of part of it for a while and paying for the privelege.

Cheers.

Ah sanity.

No sanity.

If you have actually read the documents you sign when you form a company and use a company to buy land you will know that you sign and promise that you have followed all the applicable laws. There is no signature by the government or their agents saying that they have checked and confirmed that all laws have been followed!! The government may or may not check that some conditions have been followed but it's up to you to make sure that everything is legal.

If you have used nominees and not real investors to form a company and this is found out at a later stage you will be responsible for the consequences.

....and no liability attaches for the mistake (intentional or otherwise) of government officials.

Nod's post is akin to childish finger pointing - 'everyone does it, officials were incompetent or complicit therefore I shouldn't be responsible for my own wilfull law breaking'

[sunray69]

There's a line in the movie "Heat", with Al Pacino and Robert DeNero that applies to this. DeNero, as professional thief Neil McCauley, advises "Never get attached to anything you aren't prepared to walk away from in 30 seconds flat."

I have a beautiful home, a beautiful, and very good Thai wife of 52 (10 years my junior), and her 26 yr old son that I legally adopted and who, on his own, legally changed his last name to mine. Everything we have we put in his name. He's a great young man and my trust in him is not an issue in the least.

BUT....if for some reason...if something happened...I'd have no problems doing exactly what DeNero said. They could have the house & car, but not my CBR since it's in my name, and they can't touch my money. I have 100% VA disability which, by VA Regulations, can only go to an account that is in MY NAME ONLY, with restrictions of NO Debit card and NO online banking. Once a month I have to show up in person to withdraw from my acct and put in the joint account we have.

I walk, I take my money with me, they can't make payments, they lose everything very quickly. And they know it. Sort of my own personal "insurance policy" if you wish.

Indeed, it really looks like you trust them !!! Enjoy your life !

[bitterbatter]

Thaksin has probabaly got a nice Phuket resort picked out he wants to buy for cheap and his retirement

[Nawtier]

" Prime" Phuket land - - -Now that is a real contradiction of terms!

Why is that ??

There is some very beautiful and therefore prime land in Phuket.....just a shame everything around it is fcuked up

[whitejaguar]

Than I guess that all these so called legal advice companies who advertise between these topics in thaivisa.com are criminal organisations. First things first. Deport these people first and let the victims of these companies stay!!!!!

Edited July 3, 2011 by whitejaguar

[CaptHaddock]

If western countries would consider the well being of their most intelligent and driven citizens then none of this would be a problem. First off a lot of those foriegners wouldn't be living here in the first place, secondly, if western governments simply passed laws of "reciprocation" for the citizens of nations, then it would be easy to make Thailand's elite rule makers reconsider their views on foriegn ownership of land. The "reciprocity bill/act" would simply state the follow:-

"No citizen of a foreign land shall be entitled to rights or privelages that are beyond those afforded foreigners in their own country of citizenship"....just imagine how that would reshape the world!!!!

Your failure to understand how governments work appears to be quite complete. Countries set their immigration laws according to their own labor needs as they see them. That is part of being a sovereign nation. Every nation accords more rights to its citizens than non-citizens living within its borders. Your government doesn't care too much about how you are treated in Thailand, unless there are embarassing massacres of their citizens or something like that.

You seem to believe that you have a right to live in any country that you choose and to import your political rights when you pack your bags as well. No country in the world acknowledges such a right. So, why do you believe it?

The expats find it convenient to live in Thailand because of favorable exchange rates for their currency. Period. That's the whole story. We are just lucky beneficiaries of trade imbalances.

[baboon]

To be honest,I have given up worrying about this type of thing. The wife might boot me out,the house might be confiscated.....These matters are out of my hands now; I made my choices and have to live with them.

Whatever happens, happens. Mine`s a Chang.

[Nawtier]

You can always bulldoze it to the ground just for the fun of it.

[baboon]

Why are we even reacting to this? Obviously an elections ploy. They made similar threats about stopping over 50 foreigners from marrying their women that never came about months ago. We are like the Jews in Germany years ago. We are a convenient target for a unified hate. The Thais believe Nazi Germany was a good thing and admire it's history. It relates.

Mate,the threat about stopping the over 50s from......Never mind.

I think for the time being foreigners living here are safe from being rounded up,forced into cattle trucks and sent to concentration camps where they will be beaten,starved,raped,have medical experiments performed on them and/or be gassed to death.

Come on now. Think about what you are saying.

[cdnski12]

No worries in Australia,

We have already sold off the land to foreigners such as the Hong Kong Chinese.

And all quite legally!

Ditto for Canada ... at least in the Province of BC. Nearly 100% of all the high end properties in Vancouver are sold to Chinese Investors.

[maidu]

I have a tourist venue in northern Thailand. I've been planning on adding a spa and other improvements which tourists would enjoy. Not now, knowing how tenuous things can be. Just one, or a small group of Thai politicians can change the rules of the game. I'm just one small fish who is not going to invest in further improvements to my Thai properties. Multiply that by tens of thousands of others who think similarly, and it adds up to a significant decrease in investment. Plus, it lessens the options for tourists who come to Thailand. Currently there are not much variety of options here, certainly not what there could be if innovative thinking was part of the equation. I could make a list of 100 activities tourists enjoy doing - which are not available in Thailand.

In a similar vein. I happen to meet many backpackers here in N. Thailand. On average, well over 90% or them spend a bit of time here, and then eagerly depart for Laos and Cambodia for longer stays. Laos & Cambodia have primitive facilities compared to Thailand, but are magnets for younger vibrant travelers. TAT doesn't understand this, and keeps trying to focus Thai development towards golf courses and resorts. That's just one of many reasons why Thai tourism is la

gging behind where it could be.

If you go to any of the dozen resorts in my tourist town, you'll see empty hallways, near-empty restaurants, and very few folks (if any) hanging by the pool - and that's year-round. Resorts are like Frank Sinatra songs. They're tired and old. Under 50 tourists want fun and vibrant places to hang - plus challenging outdoor activities. TAT doesn't understand that.

[KKK]

land ownership though Thai “nominees”

while foreigners found guilty will have their land seized before being deported

It is NOT the foreigners land it is the Thai nominees. So are they to grab it from them and what punishment, if any, would be imposed on those Thai nominees?

AND

If Thailand considers it wrong for people to own land in a country in which they are not a citizen, why does is it allow its citizens (Thais) to own land outside of Thailand. Surely this "We can buy yours BUT you can't buy ours" policy is double-faced.

[spidermike007]

I have no sympathy for foreigner investors who get screwed here in Thailand. Everybody knows the deal here. Even if this news break is 'tongue in cheek' foreigners have always been banned from owning land/ property . Try and and make it all legal through fancy names,accountants,lawyers and companies and this is what could happen. This is not the generous west ,This is Thailand.<BR>Thaksin is about to be re-elected by proxy and you can bet he will demand 46 billion baht be returned pronto! This country belongs to the rich Chinese- Thais. not us farangs. The only thing a western man can do legally in Thailand is marry a poor Isan girl and the government will gladly give you a worthless marriage certificate and her a Thai passport for passage to Europe. Take a useless isan wife to Europe and get her to send money back to Thailand every month. Farangs are considered a joke here .

You are an extremely bitter man. My heart goes out to you. It must be difficult to wake up in the morning, inside your head. Take an aspirin. Take a vacation. Get out of Thailand for awhile. Meet some nice people. Do whatever you have to do, but stop inflicting your constipated ideas of the world on those that have found a place to live that we enjoy. As for your comment on useless Issan women, I will not even dignify that bit of racist garbage with a reply. Get a life, you waste of a human being!

The post is not demeening Issan girls , perhaps its you who needs a pill.

Take a useless isan wife to Europe and get her to send money back to Thailand every month. Farangs are considered a joke here. If you do not think that this statement demeans a populations of over 20,000,000 people, I am not sure what to say to you. And you suggest I need a pill. I assume it should be a sleeping pill, and that I should ignore all posts critical of a third of the country. I have spent alot of time in Issan, unlike some of you clowns, and there are some very kindhearted, hard working people up there. If you are simply willing to buy into the elitist party line, and are willing to hate a people for the fact they have less cash than you, or some of the hi-so folks in Bangkok, go right ahead. But, do not expect me, or many others to admire you for it. Quite the contrary.

[ivowatson]

Mr Sriracha said foreigners had already acquired about one-third of all Thai land, about one billion rai.

Are you serious?

Foreigners: one-third, Government land, National Parks, mountains, rivers, lakes, beach land, seas: one-third and locals: one-third. I think that's fair.

Welcome to everyday April's Fool Day land.

[Chopperboy]

I was about to outsource task from my danish company to a thai company..................... but hell no, why do i want to support a country like this. Time to go to cambodia and vietnam to find partners. No tax or salary to thais

You don't want to be outsourcing due to the poor and inconsistent quality they will produce. If something is wrong, it will always be YOUR fault! If you complain they will drop it in the "too hard basket" etc..

Better to deal with the Chinese - they are very efficient.