Land Dept Claims 90% Of Prime Phuket Land Controlled By Foreigners

[Bard]

Thank God I moved out of LOS after 12 years there.

In Europe and USA Thai's buy land own land and businesses 100%, they can do whatever a local can do without paying anything more for that. They can even ship money out of the country without any hassle. After a few years as a law abiding tax paying immigrant they can get a new nationality.

Why do the Westerners (Falangs) do that? Well they see any immigrant who work and pay there taxes as a valuable member of the society who help build up the wealth of that particular country.

Surely we have an amount of Thai's who come and commit crime, contribute nothing and the like. However these few elements speak for themselves and do not represent the rest of them, hence the laws and attitude is positive until you as a person proves this wrong, then you are penalized and not your race or creed. Thailand signed a document where this is supposed to be the law of the land in Thailand too, however they do not adhere to the document they signed, it basically is not worth the paper it's written on, it was just another lie to the rest of the world to look good on paper without meaning or doing as it states.

The Thai racist laws is a sign of fear, incompetence and not understanding economy. That said however the Thai economy and country seems to float along whatever stupid stuff there government comes up with. Float along is the word as there is a huge amount of poverty, and it is still an underdeveloped country. Had the leaders managed the country better had the entire Thai population done much better, to hide incompetence by spreading fear of foreigners, confiscate land and deport investors does nothing good for the nation and it's people. Some rich people buy up the land dead cheap underhand from the confiscating department. Some few get greased palms and a rich man get a steal. Then they aim for next cycle of idiot foreigners who buy, invest, build up and throw them out. It has worked before and they believe they can continue this forever. As long as foreigners put there money into the nation they will continue. The development suffer, the population suffer and the foreigners suffer. Who cares some white uniform got greased and a rich person got richer.

Thailand in my humble opinion has too many ignorant selfish people, and a very bad attitude for right and wrong. It is a great place to go for a short holiday when ignorance is a funny story when you return home, but I would never live there again until they change the laws and attitude. The day you actually can live in peace without fear for the government there I can see a massive leap for the nation and it's people, until then they will float along as a banana republic.

[timinphuket]

In a bar last night and heard this joke - "How do you become a millionaire in Thailand? - Arrive a billionaire".

I would like to know how these farangs control the land when they are not able to because the land cannot be in their name - obviously the nominated Thai person is there for the money - but this is the system in Thailand and the named Thai people are abusing the system yet the Land Department blame the farang - what about the 51% law which exists in Thailand?

Looking forward to the explanation of "putting the national food supply in jeopardy"...

[Chopperboy]

In a bar last night and heard this joke - "How do you become a millionaire in Thailand? - Arrive a billionaire".

How to make a small fortune in Thailand?

Start with a large one..

[Nawtier]

Get some new jokes guys...

[samuiman]

LOL....anyone who invests 1 cent in the idiotic Country is a complete numbskull..from the stockmarket down to the dirt you will be screwed 1 way or another

I agree 100% with Terryp. I was foolish enough to buy a land lease and build a house on Koh Samui in 2006. Some divine power must have been watching over me because by some miracle I managed to sell it in 2008. With all the handouts to greedy officials, management companies and commission to the selling agency, I was very lucky to only lose a small amount on my original investment. Every person and agency I dealt with was completely corrupt and tried to rip me off. Even my solicitor tried to rip me off saying his services only included selling the lease and not the house on it and he wanted double from the Farang ATM. (Even though the documents clearly said sale of house and land) I would urge anyone thinking of buying property in Thailand to think twice. The shoddy workmanship, poor materials etc is staggering. Its only when the house is about a year old, that the cracks appear, you may find as I did that the power cables buried in the walls for the lights are just very thin bell wire, the air conditioners break every other month, the pump in the pool room needs to be replaced as they installed a cheap model, the foundations of the pillars are not deep enough, all the taps and sanitary ware are leaking, the locks are rusty, the window blinds no longer work etc. The list goes on and on. Caveat Emptor - Buyer beware. Thailand is a lovely place with mostly friendly people but I know people who have got on the wrong side of Thai people and it turned nasty very quickly.

So whats the moral of the story? Don't buy, rent instead. You can walk away if needs be with minimum hassle and the most you can lose is a months rent.

Edited July 4, 2011 by samuiman

[ExpatJ]

Thank God I moved out of LOS after 12 years there.

In Europe and USA Thai's buy land own land and businesses 100%, they can do whatever a local can do without paying anything more for that. They can even ship money out of the country without any hassle. After a few years as a law abiding tax paying immigrant they can get a new nationality.

Why do the Westerners (Falangs) do that? Well they see any immigrant who work and pay there taxes as a valuable member of the society who help build up the wealth of that particular country.

Surely we have an amount of Thai's who come and commit crime, contribute nothing and the like. However these few elements speak for themselves and do not represent the rest of them, hence the laws and attitude is positive until you as a person proves this wrong, then you are penalized and not your race or creed. Thailand signed a document where this is supposed to be the law of the land in Thailand too, however they do not adhere to the document they signed, it basically is not worth the paper it's written on, it was just another lie to the rest of the world to look good on paper without meaning or doing as it states.

The Thai racist laws is a sign of fear, incompetence and not understanding economy. That said however the Thai economy and country seems to float along whatever stupid stuff there government comes up with. Float along is the word as there is a huge amount of poverty, and it is still an underdeveloped country. Had the leaders managed the country better had the entire Thai population done much better, to hide incompetence by spreading fear of foreigners, confiscate land and deport investors does nothing good for the nation and it's people. Some rich people buy up the land dead cheap underhand from the confiscating department. Some few get greased palms and a rich man get a steal. Then they aim for next cycle of idiot foreigners who buy, invest, build up and throw them out. It has worked before and they believe they can continue this forever. As long as foreigners put there money into the nation they will continue. The development suffer, the population suffer and the foreigners suffer. Who cares some white uniform got greased and a rich person got richer.

Thailand in my humble opinion has too many ignorant selfish people, and a very bad attitude for right and wrong. It is a great place to go for a short holiday when ignorance is a funny story when you return home, but I would never live there again until they change the laws and attitude. The day you actually can live in peace without fear for the government there I can see a massive leap for the nation and it's people, until then they will float along as a banana republic.

There is a very basic reason why ALL developing countries impose restrictions on foreign investment of one sort or another- if not then the population of the rich world would just come in and buy land, houses, businesses all over the country and drive prices up beyond anything that most of the local residents could afford- at the end of the day the whole country would be virtually foreign owned. If you think the UK would allow foreigners full residency and landownership rights if the average UK income was @3000 US$ per capita as it is in thailand you are delusional (no offence

[Naam]

Mr Sriracha said foreigners had already acquired about one-third of all Thai land, about one billion rai.

either Mr Sriracha does not know what a billion is or the Phuket Gazette employs a misquoting journàsslist. according to the CIA factbook Thailand's land area is 514,000 km² = 321,250,000 Rai.

[Darrel]

Ah, but Mr Sriracha was probably referring to the area that the farangs were told they were buying, not what it actually says on the chanotes.

[tommyboy928]

I wonder how this will affect married couples. The authorities know that when a foreigner marries a poor Thai woman, and they buy a house together, which is put in her name, that the money came from the foreigner. I suppose we all have to find ways to make it look like the money came from her. The silly consequence is that if the land is confiscated, the Thai wife will lose both her home and husband. .....

If a Foreigner marries a Thai girl and they buy land/house in the Thai Wifes name, the foreigner has to sign a document at the Land Office (when the House / Land is transferred from 1 owner to another) that states, that the money to buy the house/land was from the Wife before they got married. So I don't see a problem there.

SO , what you say ,is that everyone has to lie to buy a house . And the she Family show the falang the door on later time . i would not do it in that way never, i would have someone else own it as my own security not to be fuc_ked over..

[OlafStapleton]

The shoddy workmanship, poor materials etc is staggering. Its only when the house is about a year old, that the cracks appear, you may find as I did that the power cables buried in the walls for the lights are just very thin bell wire, the air conditioners break every other month, the pump in the pool room needs to be replaced as they installed a cheap model, the foundations of the pillars are not deep enough, all the taps and sanitary ware are leaking, the locks are rusty, the window blinds no longer work etc. The list goes on and on. Caveat Emptor - Buyer beware. Thailand is a lovely place with mostly friendly people but I know people who have got on the wrong side of Thai people and it turned nasty very quickly.

So whats the moral of the story? Don't buy, rent instead. You can walk away if needs be with minimum hassle and the most you can lose is a months rent.

Moral is, watch as they build, as must do in all country.

Only fool trust builder.

[thaiwanderer]

Not now, knowing how tenuous things can be. Just one, or a small group of Thai politicians can change the rules of the game.

I fail to see how your risk / reward assessment has been changed by the current chest beating (unless you didn't make such an assessment).

Despite what the offical says all they actually need to do is enforce current laws.

That was always a possibility.

Whether they will or not is another matter.

[thaiwanderer]

One issue not raised regarding deportation is there is little reason for the foreigner's personal name to appear on the lease or anywhere within company documents accessible by the Thai authorities?

[katabeachbum]

Mr Sriracha said foreigners had already acquired about one-third of all Thai land, about one billion rai.

either Mr Sriracha does not know what a billion is or the Phuket Gazette employs a misquoting journàsslist. according to the CIA factbook Thailand's land area is 514,000 km² = 321,250,000 Rai.

in addition he is basing his 90% phuket farang land on 2009 figures, already investigated and found false

no secret much beachfront in Phuket is owned by co ltd with foreign interests, just mention a few neighbors like Hilton, Holiday Inn, Marriot, Club Med, le Meridian. Even Thai controlled companies prefere to spread risks to offshore ownership, its taken 2 years investigation to conclude it is legal, and then blown up again

[wolf5370]

Don't invest anything more in Thailand than you can finish in 2 weeks, the contents of your fridge!

D4mn I knew I shouldn't have invested in that freezer!

[thaiwanderer]

Mr Sriracha said foreigners had already acquired about one-third of all Thai land, about one billion rai.

either Mr Sriracha does not know what a billion is or the Phuket Gazette employs a misquoting journàsslist. according to the CIA factbook Thailand's land area is 514,000 km² = 321,250,000 Rai.

in addition he is basing his 90% phuket farang land on 2009 figures, already investigated and found false

no secret much beachfront in Phuket is owned by co ltd with foreign interests, just mention a few neighbors like Hilton, Holiday Inn, Marriot, Club Med, le Meridian. Even Thai controlled companies prefere to spread risks to offshore ownership, its taken 2 years investigation to conclude it is legal, and then blown up again

Though the figures may well be wrong the titles haven't been properly investigated.

[katabeachbum]

Mr Sriracha said foreigners had already acquired about one-third of all Thai land, about one billion rai.

either Mr Sriracha does not know what a billion is or the Phuket Gazette employs a misquoting journàsslist. according to the CIA factbook Thailand's land area is 514,000 km² = 321,250,000 Rai.

in addition he is basing his 90% phuket farang land on 2009 figures, already investigated and found false

no secret much beachfront in Phuket is owned by co ltd with foreign interests, just mention a few neighbors like Hilton, Holiday Inn, Marriot, Club Med, le Meridian. Even Thai controlled companies prefere to spread risks to offshore ownership, its taken 2 years investigation to conclude it is legal, and then blown up again

Though the figures may well be wrong the titles haven't been properly investigated.

What I have read in this topic is not about land titles being genuine or not, it is about foreign ownership/control of Thai land in general.

Its kinda OFF to claim 1 billion out of 322 million RAI is owned by foreigners.

It is also kinda OFF claiming they are owned by foreigners, when investigations have revealed they mostly are owned by legal Thai co ltd

[thaiwanderer]

Though the figures may well be wrong the titles haven't been properly investigated.

What I have read in this topic is not about land titles being genuine or not, it is about foreign ownership/control of Thai land in general.

Its kinda OFF to claim 1 billion out of 322 million RAI is owned by foreigners.

It is also kinda OFF claiming they are owned by foreigners, when investigations have revealed they mostly are owned by legal Thai co ltd

meant investigating who has title

merely checking owner is a thai company with majority thai shareholders etc is no real investigation - how many chanotes would anyone imagine would actually be held by 'Mr Foreigner'?

[kimmy]

It is a ridiculous statement that 90% of the beachfront land is owned by foreigners. I think it should be that of the rather small area of Phuket beachfront property that is owned by Thai companies with foreign participation, 90% could be owned by nominee structured companies.

[spidermike007]

Mr Sriracha said foreigners had already acquired about one-third of all Thai land, about one billion rai.

either Mr Sriracha does not know what a billion is or the Phuket Gazette employs a misquoting journàsslist. according to the CIA factbook Thailand's land area is 514,000 km² = 321,250,000 Rai.

in addition he is basing his 90% phuket farang land on 2009 figures, already investigated and found false

no secret much beachfront in Phuket is owned by co ltd with foreign interests, just mention a few neighbors like Hilton, Holiday Inn, Marriot, Club Med, le Meridian. Even Thai controlled companies prefere to spread risks to offshore ownership, its taken 2 years investigation to conclude it is legal, and then blown up again

Typically poor math. The military owns 12,000,000 rai alone. So, how could foreigners own a third of the land, and how can that total only be 1,000,000 rai? That is the land on one large province alone. Typical of the director not even knowing how much land he is directing ownership over.

[evanson]

Mr Sriracha said foreigners had already acquired about one-third of all Thai land, about one billion rai.

either Mr Sriracha does not know what a billion is or the Phuket Gazette employs a misquoting journàsslist. according to the CIA factbook Thailand's land area is 514,000 km² = 321,250,000 Rai.

in addition he is basing his 90% phuket farang land on 2009 figures, already investigated and found false

no secret much beachfront in Phuket is owned by co ltd with foreign interests, just mention a few neighbors like Hilton, Holiday Inn, Marriot, Club Med, le Meridian. Even Thai controlled companies prefere to spread risks to offshore ownership, its taken 2 years investigation to conclude it is legal, and then blown up again

Typically poor math. The military owns 12,000,000 rai alone. So, how could foreigners own a third of the land, and how can that total only be 1,000,000 rai? That is the land on one large province alone. Typical of the director not even knowing how much land he is directing ownership over.

WHO in the military? Not your average 'grunt' for sure. And, bearing in mind who the 'military' represents, where did you get this figure from?

Not being contentious, just interested. Already know how much is paid every year to the palace. No secret, if you are able to read Thai script.

[harleyclarkey]

The cumulative effect of this had been a growing problem of land ownership though Thai “nominees”, he was quoted as saying in a Thai-language report on the state-run MCOT website.

Thailand was one of many countries experiencing this problem, he said.

Are other countries suffering from this?

Yes

http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/stories/2008/08/18/story1.html

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/concern-grows-over-foreign-ownership-of-australian-farmland/story-e6frede3-1226084447622

http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/50065/foreign-ownership-land-spotlight

http://americanagriculturist.com/story.aspx/increase-in-foreign-owned-us-ag-land-32106

http://mg.co.za/article/2011-01-12-nehawu-calls-for-ban-on-foreign-land-ownership/

Good links.

The governments are total nuts. They allow the Chinese to buy prime land and assets. Can a foreigner own land freehold and legally watertight in China???

[Naam]

Mr Sriracha said foreigners had already acquired about one-third of all Thai land, about one billion rai.

either Mr Sriracha does not know what a billion is or the Phuket Gazette employs a misquoting journàsslist. according to the CIA factbook Thailand's land area is 514,000 km² = 321,250,000 Rai.

in addition he is basing his 90% phuket farang land on 2009 figures, already investigated and found false

no secret much beachfront in Phuket is owned by co ltd with foreign interests, just mention a few neighbors like Hilton, Holiday Inn, Marriot, Club Med, le Meridian. Even Thai controlled companies prefere to spread risks to offshore ownership, its taken 2 years investigation to conclude it is legal, and then blown up again

Typically poor math. The military owns 12,000,000 rai alone. So, how could foreigners own a third of the land, and how can that total only be 1,000,000 rai? That is the land on one large province alone. Typical of the director not even knowing how much land he is directing ownership over.

the Right Honourable Sir Sriracha mentioned one billion (1,000,000,000) rai. please add another three zeroes to the million you mentioned.

[BlueTerrace]

Most countries I have lived and worked in, foreigners can buy land. Usually they develop it ( and economicailly its not bad to have exapts splashing their cash about) and very few of them take the land back to their home countries when they leave.

[thaiwanderer]

Most countries I have lived and worked in, foreigners can buy land. Usually they develop it ( and economicailly its not bad to have exapts splashing their cash about) and very few of them take the land back to their home countries when they leave.

Foreigners can buy land in Thailand too, they just can't own it!

Its a good system whereby stupid foreigners develop land and splash cash but are always kept in a grey area.

They seem happy (if only temporarily) so all sides win. Those that pontificate about it being a bad idea are unimportant non-investors.

[harleyclarkey]

Get some new jokes guys...

Ah nah! You can't beat the old ones. Still true and still brings a smile!

[electau]

To put it more simplier who ever has the title deed (chanote) in their name owns the land. Only Thai nationals can own land.

There is nothing to prevent you leasing land from a Thai individual or entity.

Edited July 11, 2011 by electau

[SolarOhm]

It is hilarious that foreigners start from the premise that is it ok for them to flaunt the laws of Thailand by setting up an illegal structure to hold land unlawfully and then cry foul when the Thai authorities catch em!

If you don't want to lose what you have then start at the outset obeying the laws of the land.

There are legitimate ways to control land and property in Thailand, pay the minimum of tax and sleep comfortably at night.

However if you listen to your mates and shady characters, and if you are not prepared to pay for professional advice and assistance - do as Stevie Nicks sings ... "Go your own way" (and perish!)

P.S. PM me if you would like to meet in Bangkok for an initial obligation FREE consultation in a couple of weeks from now!

Edited July 14, 2011 by SolarOhm

[thaiwanderer]

It is hilarious that foreigners start from the premise that is it ok for them to flaunt the laws of Thailand by setting up an illegal structure to hold land unlawfully and then cry foul when the Thai authorities catch em!

If you don't want to lose what you have then start at the outset obeying the laws of the land.

There are legitimate ways to control land and property in Thailand, pay the minimum of tax and sleep comfortably at night.

However if you listen to your mates and shady characters, and if you are not prepared to pay for professional advice and assistance - do as Stevie Nicks sings ... "Go your own way" (and perish!)

P.S. PM me if you would like to meet in Bangkok for an initial obligation FREE consultation in a couple of weeks from now!

Are your methods entirely legal or just less grey?

[surayu]

It is hilarious that foreigners start from the premise that is it ok for them to flaunt the laws of Thailand

P.S. PM me if you would like to meet in Bangkok for an initial obligation FREE consultation in a couple of weeks from now!

[Bruce1]

The biggest landowners in Thailand would be the royals and military, wouldn't they?

If the land is in the name of a Thai, what's the problem? If there's a dispute, the Thai owner will win - simple really.

Australia doesn't even have a register of foreign owners, so little concern is there about it there. After all, what are they going to do - put their land in a suitcase and take it away? The Charon Group, for instance, has big investments in Australia, including oil and gas.

The real problem here is confusing ownership with investment. You don't have to own land to invest in a business which makes money.

Most countries have to import cash to fund their development through investments. Investors want some security for their money. Land is the best security. Would a rich Thai invest in a property if they could only own 49%? I doubt it.