Crackdown On Internet

[joefromdc]

I am indeed suggesting we don't have "the right" to criticize. We have the privilege of criticizing the Thai government at THEIR pleasure. We have the RIGHT to criticize our home countries where we are citizens and these RIGHTS are protected (at least in the USA where I hail from). This is Thailand, this is THEIR democracy, this is THEIR choice. Not ours.

Where any of you get the idea that your "free will" and "freedoms" enjoyed in the West are the same here. We are privileged to be able to come to another country and live. If you live here long enough, they Thais will allow you to become a citizen (I know of at least one who has done just this). But the democracy is for the Thai people, not for the non-citizens. If you feel so strongly about it, then go for Thai citizenship--better speak/read/write great Thai though. Then you can work to change this democracy. You can work to stop the corruption as you see it, however hard or impossible as that might seem.

I support the FREEDOM of the Thai people to choose what is best for the Thai people, whether I agree with it or not. I am honored that the Thai people allow me the privilege of staying in their country and enjoying a mostly "free" life. Something MY country does not allow to most Thai nationals. Because I feel this honor, I attempt to do my part to make Thailand a better place in whatever small way I may contribute.

mraloha, you already have your freedom of speech and democracy. You gonna let some Thai tourists staying in the States to tell YOU how OUR freedom and democracy is "supposed" to work. I think not.

As for the argument regarding "live full time in thailand, who support thai families are not allowed to become citizens on a equal basis because of their ethnicity?" If you are an American or Western European, this is not a correct statement. Also, you are FREE to return to your home countries and let your families become equal citizens there (in the USA anyway).

We have nothing but freedoms and the ability to choose perhaps better than any people in the history of man. Why should we take that away from the Thais? Why can't Thailand figure out it's own path, it's own road to success?

Thailand isn't perfect. I have traveled all over the world and haven't found a place that is "perfect." Yet, here we all are, living in this imperfect Thailand. Must be some good reasons for that floating around somewhere...

Not a sermon. Just a thought.

j.

[sillyfools]

Internet Cafes have to close at 10pm? That's 'good news' for people needing to get in touch with their loved ones or family on the other side of the globe.

I think our Indian friends are laughing their pants off when they read this after Thailand's statement it wants to replace India as an IT hub.

Right now I don't think about it too much. I feel pitty for the people as most have no idea what is happening being spoonfed by conventional media. People eventually will see what's been happening and it won't be pretty then I'm afraid.

Long live the king.

[Ijustwannateach]

^^No, it's a sermon- and not a particularly original or interesting one. You're either a troll or one of those "Thailand-intoxicated" folk who haven't advanced far into their culture shock yet. The only thing more crass than a Thai who tells us not to criticise anything about Thailand because we should feel "honoured" to be here is a foreigner who says the same thing.

On the topic, I agree with the note of caution. Imagine if the ONLY thing you could read or say on the Internet were at the level of what the Nation or the Bangkok Post are allowed to print. We would be entering a scary world indeed.

Edited October 25, 2005 by Ijustwannateach

[marquess]

I am indeed suggesting we don't have "the right" to criticize. We have the privilege of criticizing the Thai government at THEIR pleasure. We have the RIGHT to criticize our home countries where we are citizens and these RIGHTS are protected (at least in the USA where I hail from). This is Thailand, this is THEIR democracy, this is THEIR choice. Not ours.

Where any of you get the idea that your "free will" and "freedoms" enjoyed in the West are the same here. We are privileged to be able to come to another country and live. If you live here long enough, they Thais will allow you to become a citizen (I know of at least one who has done just this). But the democracy is for the Thai people, not for the non-citizens. If you feel so strongly about it, then go for Thai citizenship--better speak/read/write great Thai though. Then you can work to change this democracy. You can work to stop the corruption as you see it, however hard or impossible as that might seem.

I support the FREEDOM of the Thai people to choose what is best for the Thai people, whether I agree with it or not. I am honored that the Thai people allow me the privilege of staying in their country and enjoying a mostly "free" life. Something MY country does not allow to most Thai nationals. Because I feel this honor, I attempt to do my part to make Thailand a better place in whatever small way I may contribute.

mraloha, you already have your freedom of speech and democracy. You gonna let some Thai tourists staying in the States to tell YOU how OUR freedom and democracy is "supposed" to work. I think not.

As for the argument regarding "live full time in thailand, who  support thai families are not allowed to become citizens on a equal basis because of their ethnicity?"  If you are an American or Western European, this is not a correct statement. Also, you are FREE to return to your home countries and let your families become equal citizens there (in the USA anyway).

We have nothing but freedoms and the ability to choose perhaps better than any people in the history of man. Why should we take that away from the Thais? Why can't Thailand figure out it's own path, it's own road to success?

Thailand isn't perfect. I have traveled all over the world and haven't found a place that is "perfect." Yet, here we all are, living in this imperfect Thailand. Must be some good reasons for that floating around somewhere...

Not a sermon. Just a thought.

j.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again, it's their country. Wake up take off those glasses.

[carlthailand]

SNIP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Guest endure]

to the posters who worry about porn being available...... get a life

To the posters who worry about censorship..... thanks for being cool.......

porn might be okay to certain people who have an inadequate sex life and need something else to stimulate them...... but mass censorship is NOT ON.

By the way..... I feel sorry for the guys out there that can't get it up without porn ...... SAD very sad......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stopping people looking at porn IS mass censorship. The thing about free speech is that it applies to all, not just the things you approve of.

[OZONE]

Might I suggest everyone boycott 12 call (AIS)?

I'm fairly happy w/ Happy on a prepaid.

It's not the porno necc - It's the CONTROL.

Who does he think he is - Bush? -let's hope he meets the same fate!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear God or Buddha, I hope he does not meet the same fate as Bush. We wouldn't want him to be re-elected

[joefromdc]

^^No, it's a sermon- and not a particularly original or interesting one.  You're either a troll or one of those "Thailand-intoxicated" folk who haven't advanced far into their culture shock yet.  The only thing more crass than a Thai who tells us not to criticise anything about Thailand because we should feel "honoured" to be here is a foreigner who says the same thing.

On the topic, I agree with the note of caution.  Imagine if the ONLY thing you could read or say on the Internet were at the level of what the Nation or the Bangkok Post are allowed to print.  We would be entering a scary world indeed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never said NOT to criticize Thailand. I just said we do not have "rights" as suggested by mraloha. And we don't. It's that simple. Criticize away, I certainly do. I just don't make statements about how my "freedom of speech" rights are being violated when I have none while I stay in this country.

As for feeling honored, I would feel that way to ANY country that allows me to live within their borders, especially when my own country doesn't offer the same. This is just being polite, not intoxicated. I've lived here long enough to be over any intoxication (interesting though you are quote the name of the book within your quote--Culture Shock Thailand, you've almost plagiarized).

If you learn to read Thai--I have--you are not stuck with the Nation and Bangkok Post as your only news source (or is that one of the inalienable rights you feel are missing? The right to perfect English-language news no matter what the native tongue is?)

Everything in the world is not about farang, for farang, and only farang. Arrogant farang just think that way. Anybody suggests the reality of the situation get thrown petty insults like "Thailand-intoxicated" or "troll". Anybody care to get together to debate this and other topics with some real Thai people (who think most of the post on this forum are silly, uninformed, and based on a nasty farang-superiority complex), please write me back. Not only myself, but my Thai friends would enjoy such an evening. You will be shocked to learn Thais are not as all concerned about farang as our brother's on the forum would have you think...

j.

[WhiteShiva]

I am indeed suggesting we don't have "the right" to criticize. We have the privilege of criticizing the Thai government at THEIR pleasure. We have the RIGHT to criticize our home countries where we are citizens and these RIGHTS are protected (at least in the USA where I hail from). This is Thailand, this is THEIR democracy, this is THEIR choice. Not ours.

Where any of you get the idea that your "free will" and "freedoms" enjoyed in the West are the same here. We are privileged to be able to come to another country and live. If you live here long enough, they Thais will allow you to become a citizen (I know of at least one who has done just this). But the democracy is for the Thai people, not for the non-citizens. If you feel so strongly about it, then go for Thai citizenship--better speak/read/write great Thai though. Then you can work to change this democracy. You can work to stop the corruption as you see it, however hard or impossible as that might seem.

I support the FREEDOM of the Thai people to choose what is best for the Thai people, whether I agree with it or not. I am honored that the Thai people allow me the privilege of staying in their country and enjoying a mostly "free" life. Something MY country does not allow to most Thai nationals. Because I feel this honor, I attempt to do my part to make Thailand a better place in whatever small way I may contribute.

mraloha, you already have your freedom of speech and democracy. You gonna let some Thai tourists staying in the States to tell YOU how OUR freedom and democracy is "supposed" to work. I think not.

As for the argument regarding "live full time in thailand, who  support thai families are not allowed to become citizens on a equal basis because of their ethnicity?"  If you are an American or Western European, this is not a correct statement. Also, you are FREE to return to your home countries and let your families become equal citizens there (in the USA anyway).

We have nothing but freedoms and the ability to choose perhaps better than any people in the history of man. Why should we take that away from the Thais? Why can't Thailand figure out it's own path, it's own road to success?

Thailand isn't perfect. I have traveled all over the world and haven't found a place that is "perfect." Yet, here we all are, living in this imperfect Thailand. Must be some good reasons for that floating around somewhere...

Not a sermon. Just a thought.

j.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here we go again, it's their country. Wake up take off those glasses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is also my childrens country, my wive's country, and the country where I am living, working and paying taxes. So if I see injustice or abuse, I will speak out.

Actually, following your logic (or lack of it) you have absolutely no right to criticize foreigners in Thailand, because you are not Thai.

[orchidexpert]

I don't know what are you talking?

As I know all websites wanna come to Thailand via internet severs.

But all severs in Thailand registered at NECTEC.

If webs are blocked by servers. Any genius DNS, proxy can't be enter..gateway closed.

Please wait, Nov7,2005 and visit www.greencyber.or.th

[richard10365]

I thought I would add some more fuel to the fire. I just saw this on the Bangkok Post web site:

*************************************************************

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/28Oct2005_news05.php

Inappropriate content' to be cleansed from cyber space

The Information and Communications Technology Ministry has plans to make cyber space free from ``inappropriate content'', beginning next month, under a scheme known as Cyber Clean. Kanawat Wasinsungworn, assistant to the ICT minister, said yesterday the ministry expects to sign an agreement with webmasters and website owners on Nov 7.

ICT ministry representatives, cyber inspectors and website operators met on Wednesday to discuss the details.

Mr Kanawat said Cyber Clean had drawn positive feedback from the 50 favourite websites.

The Cyber Clean icon would appear on the participating websites. If web users spot improper language or images or any content deemed a threat to national security, they could click the Cyber Clean icon.

The website contents, IP address, URL and pictures will be copied and sent to cyber inspectors for examination. The webmaster would be served a warning if the contents were determined improper.

CAT Telecom would be responsible for coordinating with overseas websites.

Mr Kanawat said Cyber Clean would target only pornographic content. There were no plans to interfere in political web-boards.

He denied having proposed that internet users be required to give their ID numbers before posting messages on web-boards.

``I've never said anything about it. And there's no way we'll force people to do it,'' he said.

A source said that some website owners had suggested that internet users be required to give their ID numbers before connecting. It was suggested this would prevent cyber crime and deter users from posting improper messages.

******************************************************

Is ThaiVisa going to be part of Thailands "Cyber Clean" community?

[womble]

"If you learn to read Thai--I have--you are not stuck with the Nation and Bangkok Post as your only news source (or is that one of the inalienable rights you feel are missing? The right to perfect English-language news no matter what the native tongue is?)"

So have you mastered Thai to a level where you can read a news paper cover to cover and understand every intricate part of the language?

I know many who can read and write Thai, but very few to this level, infact only one and he's been here 25 years!

He would also definatley not agree that should we not like things we should go home, after paying tax I feel no shame in voicing opinions on matters that concern the country, I know we're not listened to, and have no rights, but that doesn't mean we have to put up and shut up.

There's nothing wrong with constuctive critisism as long as it's done in a respectful manner. This goes for any issue world wide, it's what our democracy has taught us. Not to just sit back and watch things happen.

[Tyree D.]

This doesn't matter to me. Why see what you can have? No law will ever put the Thai Hee into extinction.

[joefromdc]

Look up the difference between "right" and "privilege". This all started by my simply pointing out that you do NOT have the rights of citizenship when outside your home country. How this got twisted into "no one should criticize" I am not sure. Go back and look at the post(s), I suggest criticizing is OK, it's just not our "right" unless the Thai government allows us the right (or you are an American Citizen and on US soil, then our constitution guarantees us rights).

So criticize away, knock yourselves out. This isn't North Korea or China, the Thai government is pretty cool about allowing freedom of speech compared with them. Thai Visa's "Complain about Thailand" forum here pretty much proves you have freedom of speech. But if the Thai government says is isn't your "right" anymore to download pornography, then you don't have the "right", whether or not that "right" is protected in your home countries. No one complains when they make child-porn illegal, that's "clearly wrong", right? Everyone is making a value judgment and the Thai government is making a different one from the complainers here (and myself for that matter). All I was saying was that it's their government, let them govern it, let them have their own values, beliefs and systems as they see fit.

My entire argument is based on "right" versus "privilege". The logic is irrefutable and has nothing to do with criticizing. Only what defines rights, which sorry to day isn't defined by "my childrens country, my wife's country, and the country where I am living, working and paying taxes." (please forgive me correcting your spelling)

This all sounds like another farang who believes all his "bar-girl publicity". Get a grip dude. Why not try a re-read and applying some logic (that's that word you keep throwing around) and see if you can figure what's really being said. The only way you get the full rights of a Thai citizen is to become Thai. Having 16 wives, 58 children and paying 60,000,000 baht in taxes a year still won't cut it (probably come darn close though )

As for reading the newspaper, no, I can't read a Thai newspaper "fully". Unlike most languages, Thai newspapers are written at a high level of the language, not a lower one. I have learned to read and continue to study in hopes that one day will read a newspaper fully and quickly. Still, not being able to read the "free press", is that Thailand's fault or mine? (and I can read some) So learning to read Thai enough to read a paper is difficult. So. Again, there in no inalienable right to these things. The Bangkok Post and The Nation are NOT FREE PRESSES. The others are and we have access to them. If we can't read them, then shame on us, not shame on the government.

I think we should all voice our opinions. I never suggested otherwise. But if the Thai government erodes enough of MY freedoms, I will go home where my rights are protected, because here they just tolerate me.

after paying tax I feel no shame in voicing opinions on matters that concern the country, I know we're not listened to, and have no rights, but that doesn't mean we have to put up and shut up.

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism as long as it's done in a respectful manner.  This goes for any issue world wide, it's what our democracy has taught us.  Not to just sit back and watch things happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this 100%. Nothing I wrote in my previous 2 posts said differently. You say so yourself "I know we're not listened to, and have no rights". I never said shut up, just quit saying you have some sort of god-given "right", you don't. Bitch all you want, I was just thinking it's OK for the Thai's deal with pornography the way THEY want.

j.

[carlthailand]

I like the pics in the Thai papers.

[OlRedEyes]

I have the RIGHT to open me big mouth and criticise, praise and say whatever I like wherever I like. I was born into this WORLD (not country) with that right.

Should I find myself in a hostile environment, it is my RIGHT to decide whether I will open me big mouth or keep it shut.

Thailand, reputedly, is part of this earth, of which I am a citizen. Therefore I have a RIGHT, not a privilege, to criticise if I so see fit.

Should elements within the country shut me up violently because I exercise my right to free speech, they are transgressing, not me.

Rights are not local, restriction of rights are.

[Greer]

I don't know what are  you talking?

As I know all websites wanna come to Thailand via internet severs.

But all severs in Thailand registered at NECTEC.

If webs are  blocked by servers. Any genius DNS, proxy can't  be  enter..gateway closed.

Please wait, Nov7,2005 and visit www.greencyber.or.th

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

??

[Tyree D.]

I have the RIGHT to open me big mouth and criticise, praise and say whatever I like wherever I like. I was born into this WORLD (not country) with that right.

Should I find myself in a hostile environment, it is my RIGHT to decide whether I will open me big mouth or keep it shut.

Thailand, reputedly, is part of this earth, of which I am a citizen. Therefore I have a RIGHT, not a privilege, to criticise if I so see fit.

Should elements within the country shut me up violently because I exercise my right to free speech, they are transgressing, not me.

Rights are not local, restriction of rights are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

another arrogant Caucasian

EDIT: let me clarify

your opening of your mouth is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. This is not your country and you are not a citizen. You never could and never will colonize this place. Your criticism of anything here on this board could result in you, or this site being banned. So stop thinking highly of yourself. You mouth can shut down your whole existence. Who would transgress then?

Edited October 29, 2005 by Tyree D.

[John K]

The one thing about all of this is it will soon come crashing down on them if they do limit the Internet. If they censor a newspaper, it is difficult for the public to tell it has been censored. This is because it has different content every day. The Internet on the other hand is a constant. If you go to CNN and it is not there anymore, people will take notice. The Thais that I have talked to said many would not stand for this because it seems to be the only source of accurate information, thus more sound business decisions can be made. I don’t know if that is true or just hype to make conversation, but I do agree that it all will come crashing down on them. I just returned from Penang and I was watching the news. It certainly would get some Muslim people angry to see what was on the news about southern Thailand. However if you keep in mind who the bad guys are, and what they are doing, and that they started it all, it quickly adds reason for what I saw. If someone comes into your house and starts doing damage or tries to steal things, you very quickly would let them know right from wrong in your own special way. That is all the governments of the world are doing with terrorists. Unfortunately it is a nasty business, and many would object.

The censorship for political gain and to limit criticism about corruption is absolutely wrong. I am very sure that people trying to hide corruption are finding it to be more and more time consuming because more and more people are being negatively effected by it. If I recall the numbers from the Bangkok post about 2 months ago, corruption works out to about 100,000 ThB (One hundred thousand) for every person in the country per year. That is a lot of money even for a non Thai. I am very sure the censorship has a lot to do with keeping it the money of the few and not the many. I am very certain this is a big part of why accurate information in Thailand is so hard to find. That bring us full circle to business decisions again. I believe that is why the King has not moved to replace the person who exposed the scandals and the corruption even when the government wants her out. If more leaders of the world were like the King of Thailand, the world would be a much better place. I can’t express in words just how impressed with the wisdom and kindness of Thailand’s King, he truly cares about his people. I regret to say I don’t have the same high marks for the leadership my own country the USA.

[carlthailand]

I have the RIGHT to open me big mouth and criticise, praise and say whatever I like wherever I like. I was born into this WORLD (not country) with that right.

Should I find myself in a hostile environment, it is my RIGHT to decide whether I will open me big mouth or keep it shut.

Thailand, reputedly, is part of this earth, of which I am a citizen. Therefore I have a RIGHT, not a privilege, to criticise if I so see fit.

Should elements within the country shut me up violently because I exercise my right to free speech, they are transgressing, not me.

Rights are not local, restriction of rights are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

another arrogant Caucasian

EDIT: let me clarify

your opening of your mouth is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. This is not your country and you are not a citizen. You never could and never will colonize this place. Your criticism of anything here on this board could result in you, or this site being banned. So stop thinking highly of yourself. You mouth can shut down your whole existence. Who would transgress then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think his post made sense. So did yours up until you started waving your big stick around. You are not even quoting him. In fact, you are putting words in his mouth.

Also think it should read "Your mouth".

Get a life. Really. There you sit blasting him for his right to say what he wants. When you are doing that yourself. Got nothing really to do with politics. It's just freedom of speech.

Like the famous quote which I will probably get wrong.

"I don't necessarily agree with what he says. But I will defend his right to say it.

C

ps No we won't colonise the place. It IS being done on the inside quite nicely by the Thai Chinese. Not that I think it is bad thing. Just see it happening more and more. Take for example the students who really do want to study. Well from my own experience anyway.

Edited October 29, 2005 by carlthailand

[Upcountry]

Agree, we are "entitled' to our opinions, but the reality is that where you live, whether tourist, long term resident or born citizen, you cannot truly escape the power of the local authority. Look at the victims of Columbian "authorities". Try a few months in Myanmar.

In an ideal world, the UN, or mythical international authority, can say this or that "aint" right. But for now, at least, in the early 21st century, we are stuck with the "local" government's determination of what is allowed.

Despite it's weaknesses, the US and some other countries are a bit more advanced than other places when it comes to 'freedom of speech", etc. Until it is more clearly defined, we must recognize that living in a country in which we are not citizens does limit our rights, and increases our obligations. No way around it.

I think it comes with the "territory" of being an expat - you trade off the idea that you have complete freedom to criticize the country in which you have chosen to be a "guest".

When you visit a friend, do you criticize everything or the most troublesome things about him? Only if you know him well, and he welcomes your feedback, right?

[OlRedEyes]

I have the RIGHT to open me big mouth and criticise, praise and say whatever I like wherever I like. I was born into this WORLD (not country) with that right.

Should I find myself in a hostile environment, it is my RIGHT to decide whether I will open me big mouth or keep it shut.

Thailand, reputedly, is part of this earth, of which I am a citizen. Therefore I have a RIGHT, not a privilege, to criticise if I so see fit.

Should elements within the country shut me up violently because I exercise my right to free speech, they are transgressing, not me.

Rights are not local, restriction of rights are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

another arrogant Caucasian

EDIT: let me clarify

your opening of your mouth is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. This is not your country and you are not a citizen. You never could and never will colonize this place. Your criticism of anything here on this board could result in you, or this site being banned. So stop thinking highly of yourself. You mouth can shut down your whole existence. Who would transgress then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For a submissive you seem very self-righteous.

Maybe you should try and understand the difference between rights and privileges.

Rights are never granted, only restricted. As by laws. A restricted right still is a right, albeit a, geuss what, restricted one.

Privileges are granted and taken away.

BTW, can I criticise Bush? I am not American. Or does this vow of silence only apply to LOS. Why? We are all different, yet we criticise and comment on Blair, Bush, Hussain, and Dolly the sheep. Why are Thai so different that we must keep quiet? Try to be fair, and then what should be the problem? Are they 'different'... read less. (We expect less from those that we judge to be beneath us. Africa's problem... Maybe an unspoken racial reaction. Maybe you are just 'another arrogant Caucasian', if you can follow my drift.

I would love to see Thailand take a place in the world that is respected. I think the Thai have a shit load of potential. I criticise not out of malice, but out of frustration. As much as we can learn from the Thai, they can learn from us. Keeping your mouth shut teaches nobody anything, and you don't learn either, coz u don't discuss. No new ideas to consider.

This is a small world now, what happens in one part of the world quite often affects people everywhere. Ask a certain S. Hussain. GB certainly affects me. So does FL. So i will criticise and praise.

I'll use my own judgement as to the risk. Thats life.

But it does not mean I don't have any rights, wherever I am. It is our right to choose whether to be fair or not. I try to be. It is our right to choose to be sheep, I chose not to.

Opening my mouth (free speech) is a privilege Wow.

Edited October 29, 2005 by OlRedEyes

[carlthailand]

Agree, we are "entitled' to our opinions, but the reality is that where you live, whether tourist, long term resident or born citizen, you cannot truly escape the power of the local authority. Look at the victims of Columbian "authorities". Try a few months in Myanmar.

In an ideal world, the UN, or mythical international authority, can say this or that "aint" right. But for now, at least, in the early 21st century, we are stuck with the "local" government's determination of what is allowed.

Despite it's weaknesses, the US and some other countries are a bit more advanced than other places when it comes to 'freedom of speech", etc. Until it is more clearly defined, we must recognize that living in a country in which we are not citizens does limit our rights, and increases our obligations. No way around it.

I think it comes with the "territory" of being an expat - you trade off the idea that you have complete freedom to criticize the country in which you have chosen to be a "guest".

When you visit a friend, do you criticize everything or the most troublesome things about him? Only if you know him well, and he welcomes your feedback, right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whilst I generally agree with you. If my friend was doing something wrong in the way of human rights etc. I would certainly criticise him.

Many things are wrong here and it's great that we have a forum like this to express our ideas. Other people take it a step further and will outwardly criticise the govenment. Anmesty etc.

In know in some countries where people are just visitors and they have stood up against the government they themselves have been locked away. Take China for example and the people who protested against the treatment of those who were practising Falun Gong. Some of the protesters were from Australia and other foreign countries. They knew the risks but still they protested.

In the end it is going to be the individual who decides what, when, where and how they react. There is nothing anybody can do. IF they or even you wish to make a stand.

C

[Tyree D.]

everybody that responded to my post made some good points. I still disagree. Who knows if this board will be one of those 2 trillion sites blocked? We already have to live without thumbnow and thailand69.com Creampie Thais might be numbered That's not freedom.

And yes, you can criticise Bush, and the England Royal Family, but the ones here are a definite no-no. Yes, it is a multiple standard. I didn't make the rules, I'm just observing them.

[OlRedEyes]

Agreed that it is not a good idea to criticise some things in some places too openly. Restricted Rights.

Many of us live in Thailand, under various circumstances. Many of us wish to be here many years down the line still. We have a vested interest in seeing Thailand do well, socially and economically. We wish to live in peace, so we would like the Thai to accept us not only as guests, but as friends and compatriots. We would like to contribute to the advancement of Thailand.

For this reason I would like to see Thailand become a more important international player, just like most Thai appear to strive for.

Thailand has been isolated for long and is now trying to play on the international stage. To do that effectively they have to play to international standards, rules and strategies, adjusted with their unique ideas and strengths, else they will fail. Witness the almost daily attempts to create 'hubs' etc. Many etceteras.

In isolation they have developed their game and without really finding a coach and adjusting it to international standards, or even trying to learn those standards, are trying to win the Cup. Village Champion means nothing if you play in the big league.

Being able to accept, consider and adjust to criticism is one of the basic requirements for anybody to be able to improve. If you think you're good when you're not you are doomed, coz you won't learn to improve. Simply because you cannot see the need.

If you wish to help a friend improve his game, teach him to accept criticism. Discard the bad, ignore the stupid and learn from the justified. But always listen and consider first.

There is no way that Thailand can successfully go back into isolation. It just cannot survive that way anymore, the world is truly now too small. It HAS to increasingly integrate and interact with the rest of this planet.

It has some serious economic and military power rising around it; China, India, Malaysia and Indonesia. How well it does depends on how quickly it learns to adjust its game to the new realities.

Edited October 31, 2005 by OlRedEyes

[johng]

For those that can read Thai

Pasted from http://www.thailandictalliance.net/board.p...ion=view&No=102

ไอซีทีเตรียมลงนามร่วมกับ 50 เว็บไซต์ชื่อดังนำร่อง ไซเบอร์คลีน วันที่ 7 พ.ย.นี้ รวมทั้งต้องการให้มีการแสดงตนด้วยเลขหมายบัตรประชาชน 13 หลักสำหรับคนที่ต้องการแสดงความคิดเห็นบนเว็บ ป้องกันปัญหาอาชญากรรมและการใช้คำพูดไม่เหมาะสม

นายคณวัฒน์ วศินสังวร ผู้ช่วยรมว.เทคโนโลยีสารสนเทศและการสื่อสาร(ไอซีที) กล่าวถึงความคืบหน้าโครงการไซเบอร์คลีนภายหลังการประชุมร่วมกับผู้ประกอบการ 35 เว็บไซต์ว่าในวันที่ 7 พ.ย.นี้กระทรวงไอซีทีจะลงนามความร่วมมือกับภาคเอกชนผู้ให้บริการเว็บไซต์ สมาคมผู้ดูแลเว็บไซต์ไทย เพื่อแก้ปัญหาจากการใช้อินเทอร์เน็ตและเพิ่มช่องทางในการแจ้งข้อมูลและเหตุการณ์กระทำผิดทางอินเทอร์เน็ตต่อสารวัตรอินเทอร์เน็ต(Cyber Inspector)โดยจะเริ่มจากเว็บไซต์ที่เป็นที่นิยมในประเทศไทยที่มีอยู่ประมาณ50 เว็บไซต์ อย่างสนุกดอทคอม กระปุกดอทคอม

สำหรับโครงการไซเบอร์คลีน จะมี Cyber Inspector จัดจุดแจ้งเหตุ โดยมีตราสัญลักษณ์ไซเบอร์คลีน เมื่อประชาชนพบหน้าเว็บไซต์ ภาพ หรือข้อความที่ไม่เหมาะสม ก็สามารถคลิกที่ตราสัญลักษณ์ได้ตลอดเวลา หลังจากนั้น ข้อมูลเลข IP Address, URL และภาพหลักฐานการกระทำความผิดต่างๆจะถูกส่งไปยังผู้ให้บริการและสารวัตรอินเทอร์เน็ตทันทีในส่วนของเว็บไซต์จากต่างประเทศ ได้มอบหมายให้บริษัท กสท โทรคมนาคม ตรวจสอบโฮสและเว็บไซต์ต่างประเทศที่ไม่เหมาะสม

นอกจากนี้ในที่ประชุมผู้ให้บริการเว็บไซต์ได้เสนอให้มีการลงทะเบียนก่อนเข้าใช้อินเทอร์เน็ต

โดยจะต้องแสดงตนด้วยการพิมพ์เลขที่บัตรประจำตัวประชาชนทั้ง 13 หลักเพื่อแก้ปัญหาการเข้าแสดงความคิดเห็นที่ไม่เหมาะสมในกระดานกระทู้หรือป้องกันปัญหาอาชญากรรมจากห้องสนทนาต่างๆ และกระทรวงไอซีที ยังได้เตรียมความพร้อมของCyber Inspector โดยเพิ่มจำนวนบุคคลากรให้เพิ่มขึ้น พร้อมทั้งกำหนดบทบาทหน้าที่การทำงานให้ชัดเจนว่าเป็นหน่วยงานที่มีหน้าที่เฝ้าระวัง รับแจ้งเหตุ รวบรวมหลักฐาน หากเว็บไซต์ใดมีเนื้อหาที่ไม่เหมาะสมหรือถูกต้องตามที่กำหนดไว้ จะต้องปรับปรุงแก้ไขภายใน 3 วัน ไม่เช่นนั้นจะถูกดำเนินการเกี่ยวกับกฎหมายอื่นๆ ในลักษณะกฎหมายอาญาหรือกฎหมายเกี่ยวกับพระราชบัญญัติคุ้มครองผู้บริโภค หน่วยCyber Inspector สามารถรวมรวมข้อมูลให้แก่หน่วยงานราชการที่เกี่ยวข้องดำเนินการทางกฏหมายได้ทันที

[johng]

And some more from

http://www.thailandictalliance.net/news.ph...ion=view&No=222

นายสรอรรถ กลิ่นประทุม รัฐมนตรีว่าการกระทรวงเทคโนโลยีสารสนเทศและการสื่อสาร หรือ ไอซีที กล่าวว่า กระทรวงไอซีทีเปิดตัวโครงการ Cyber Clean ควบคุมเว็บไซต์ที่ไม่เหมาะสมโดยได้รับความร่วมมือจากเว็บไซต์กว่า 50 เว็บไซต์ เพื่อเป็นกลไกสร้างเครือข่ายความร่วมมือระหว่างภาครัฐ ผู้ให้บริการเว็บไซต์ และผู้บริโภคสื่ออินเทอร์เน็ต ในการช่วยกันเฝ้าระวังป้องกัน ตรวจตราเว็บไซต์ที่มีเนื้อหาไม่เหมาะสมแก่เยาวชน เนื่องจากปัจจุบันเว็บไซต์ดังกล่าว นับเป็นภัยคุกคามต่อผู้ใช้บริการอินเทอร์เน็ตที่ยังไม่ได้รับการแก้ไขอย่างชัดเจน รวมถึงข้อมูลมีความหลากหลายทั้งภาพและเสียงที่สามารถเผยแพร่ได้อย่างรวดเร็ว ทำให้การควบคุมเป็นเรื่องยาก

รัฐมนตรีว่าการกระทรวงไอซีที กล่าวต่อว่า ที่ผ่านมายังไม่มีหน่วยงานใดที่สามารถดำเนินการ และรับผิดชอบได้อย่างมีประสิทธิภาพ ดังนั้น โครงการนี้จะเป็นนิมิตหมายที่ดี เห็นได้จากความตั้งใจของเว็บไซต์ที่เข้าร่วม เพื่อนำไปสู่ความร่วมมือแบบบูรณาการต่อไป เนื่องจากอินเทอร์เน็ตได้เข้ามาในส่วนหนึ่งของชีวิตคนไทยอย่างน้อย 12 ล้านชีวิต ทั้งนี้ ผู้มีความประสงค์จะแจ้งเบาะแสสามารถทำได้โดยคลิกเข้าไปที่โลโก้ไซเบอร์ คลีน ที่จะปรากฏอยู่บนหน้าเว็บไซต์ที่เข้าร่วมโครงการ ก่อนเลือกเมนูส่งภาพ หรือข้อความที่ไม่เหมาะสมของเว็บไซต์นั้นๆ อาทิ สิ่งผิดกฎหมาย เนื้อหาที่สร้างความแตกแยกให้คนในชาติ หรือเนื้อหาที่ล่วงละเมิดต่อสถาบันและขัดต่อวัฒนธรรมอันดี ฯลฯ

นายสรอรรถ กล่าวอีกว่า อยากให้เจ้าของเว็บไซต์ช่วยกันสอดส่องดูแล เพื่อให้สังคมได้รับรู้ถึงความรับผิดชอบต่อสาธารณชน รวมถึงเป็นการจุดประกายให้เว็บไซต์อื่นๆได้เข้าร่วมโครงการ นอกจากนี้ โครงการดังกล่าวจะใช้ระยะเวลาการประเมินไม่เกิน 3 เดือนต่อครั้ง โดยจะประสานไปกับผู้ให้บริการทางอินเทอร์เน็ต หรือไอเอสพีเพื่อช่วยกันแก้ปัญหา และอาจจะนำพาไปถึงคนบงการที่โพสต์ข้อความ หรือภาพที่ไม่เหมาะสมด้วย

ด้านนายคณวัฒน์ วศินสังวร ผู้ช่วยรัฐมนตรีประจำกระทรวงไอซีที ในฐานะผู้รับผิดชอบโครงการ กล่าวว่า วัตถุประสงค์ของโครงการจะแสดงให้เห็นถึงความร่วมมือระหว่างภาครัฐ เอกชน และประชาชน เพื่อยุติการเผยแพร่สิ่งที่ไม่เหมาะสม โดยแจ้งผ่านสัญลักษณ์ที่ปรากฏอยู่บนหน้าเว็บไซต์ร่วมโครงการ ที่จะเป็นจุดเชื่อมโยงไปยังสารวัตรอินเทอร์เน็ต หรือ Cyber Inspector ก่อนทีมสารวัตรอินเทอร์เน็ตจะเป็นผู้ตรวจสอบและประสานไปยังผู้ให้บริการ หรือเจ้าของเว็บไซต์เพื่อแก้ไขและลบข้อมูลออกโดยเร็วที่สุด ทั้งนี้ ในขั้นแรกทีมสารวัตรอินเทอร์เน็ตจะมีอยู่ 5-6 คน ก่อนจะเพิ่มจำนวนต่อไป ส่วนปัญหาเรื่องทีมตรวจสอบที่อาจก่อให้เกิดปัญหาการทำงานซ้ำซ้อน ทางทีมงานสารวัตรอินเทอร์เน็ตจะร่วมกันปรับวิธีการให้มีประสิทธิภาพ

ผช.รมต.ประจำกระทรวงไอซีที กล่าวด้วยว่า โครงการต่อไปที่ทางกระทรวงไอซีทีจะนำเสนอคือ การนำซอฟต์แวร์ให้ประชาชนนำไปติดตั้งเครื่องมือ (Toolbar) เพื่อช่วยกันแจ้งเหตุเว็บไซต์ที่มีเนื้อหาไม่เหมาะสม จากนั้นจะดำเนินการตามมาตรการ โดยประสานไปยังไอเอสพี เพื่อติดต่อไปยังเว็บไซต์ ที่อาจจะลงโทษด้วยการปิดเว็บไซต์ ทั้งนี้ มีเว็บไซต์ที่เข้าร่วมโครงการ อาทิ sanook.com, kapook.com, mthai.com, yenta4.com ฯลฯ

[TAWP]

And us that can't?

[johng]

In a nut shell they say they have teamed up with ( forced ? ) 50 popular Thai websites to include a toolbar whereby the visitor to said websites can report to the ICT ( cyber inspector ) content deemed to be unsuitable to Thai culture or morality there will be a team of 5-6 people ( chosen by who ? ) to judge if said reported content is suitable for Thais to view or not....

Sounds like more censorship to me

[RDN]

...a team of 5-6 people ( chosen by who ? ) to judge if said reported content is suitable for Thais to view or not...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These people to be picked at random from the milling crowd outside Nana Plaza at 1:30 am any morning.