Dual Nationality / Dual Names

[LostNoom]

Longtime lurker, first time poster.

I have a question that perhaps someone here can answer.

Suppose one is a dual national, Thai and US or other Western country.

I understand that it is usual for people with this status to enter and exit Thailand using their Thai passports, but to use their second passports when traveling overseas (particularly to countries that require visas for Thai nationals).

What happens, though, if the names on your Thai passport and 2nd passport don't match?

For example, a Thai-born individual might be adopted in the US and take the surname of his adoptive parents there. "John Smith", for instance.

But his Thai ID and passport might bear his Thai birth name. "Somchai Wattana", for example.

If this person wanted to travel to the US, what name would he buy his airline tickets under? If the farang name, would it bother Thai immigration on departure that the name on his boarding card did not match the name on the passport he was using to exiting the country?

If the Thai name, would it bother immigration officers overseas that the name on his ticket did not match the one on the passport he was using to enter/exit the country?

Has anyone here faced this situation? Thank you in advance for your comments.

[autonomous_unit]

No practical experience, but having noticed that immigration officers are starting to require boarding pass stubs (with ticketed passenger name), I would expect this to create a real problem.

I imagine it would be easier to legally change your name in one country to match the other, and get an updated passport from that country. I think lots of people use one name for legal things like immigration and vital records, and a more culturally-convenient alias for day-to-day business and public interaction.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Excellent question.

Don't see a problem.

Travelling betwen Thailand and US on dual passports is commonplace: Legally US to enter/leave US; Thai to enter/leave Thailand. So the only issue is having 2 names'

The only proof (until issue of biometric passports) that you are who you say you are is the passport photo. So if the photos in both passports are clearly similar it should be adequate evidence that John Smith and Somchai Wattana are one and the same person. Having said that best advice is get to the airport early.

Actually Somchai Wattana was or is director of Thai Gov employment dept (true) so he would probably travel on a diplomatic passport. I bet it will cause a bit of a stink that a senior govenment official/minister is also an adopted US citizen. You're not his secretary making discrete enquiries are you Mr Lostnoon - trust us here. We are very discrete.

[Rinrada]

K.wife left Heathrow last week and used her UK/EU p.p.to go through the departure area (london)in her/our married name but when travelling to LOS we always get her ticket in her Thai name...bit of a mouthfull but begins Charoen...ding a dong a ding..................

When boarding the budgie at the gate she again shows her tic but this time with Thai P.P....straight forward and onto the flight.

On arrival at Don M its then just a case of showing her Thai PP on arrival and her being Thai they just dont care a fig about a return ticket,or anything else for that matter...shes Thai and thats it..so..welcome home.

We have even discussed it with TG and they confirm that even if she flys under her UK name they will still honour the tic and make sure that she gets her air miles

The Thai PP and ID card may not mean much in any other country but in LOS its the "bees knee"..in fact they (immi-customs-gov)cannot really "see" any other nationality...only Thai..only-One

Incid ...Latest news going around here is that the Guv (UK)are going ahead with the new Brit I.D whistles and bells card,but now expect it to come in at something like 30 quid (before talk of £100 plus)

I dont suppose the email I sent to the home office (Charlie Clarks gaff) saying that the wifes replacement over there on last visit cost her only 25 p....had anything to do with the climb down .....but ...you never know...

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Rinrada.

A great relief. I was expecting someone to tell me I was wrong

Question. When your wife checked in. UK passport/married name but Thai name on ticket did she have to show her Thai passport, and if so did agent have to think about it for a few seconds?

[lopburi3]

Rinrada.

A great relief. I was expecting someone to tell me I was wrong

Question. When your wife checked in. UK passport/married name but Thai name on ticket did she have to show her Thai passport, and if so did agent have to think about it for a few seconds?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just so you don't feel neglected I will take the devil side and say that I would never, ever, even try using dual passports/names at this time. And I can say had a very hard time even with a Thai child on a domestic flight where the booking name had her first name syllables transposed. I can imagine what might happen on an international flight where tickets/names have to be pre submitted for terrorist checks. That a Thai got special treatment from Thai is not surprising but I would not count on that for a flight to the USA or on other carriers. That passport name has best match exactly the ticket name.

[Smokin Joe]

If the Thai name, would it bother immigration officers overseas that the name on his ticket did not match the one on the passport he was using to enter/exit the country?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the US it would not be an issue. In fact you could throw away your ticket and/or stub before going thru immigration. As long as you are a US citizen w/US passport. Of course this doesn't mean that some over zealous immigration or homeland security prick could't waste some of your time by TRYING to make it an issue.

[Old Man River]

I am posting for the first time. The advice from Lopburi3 is spot on. Don't be foolish. Since you have to leave the western country using that country's passport, go into Thailand using the foreign passport and get the appropriate visas from Thai immigration before you arrive (i.e. do it the right way). One of my relatives is also in this situtation and after making the mistake once, has vowed to never, ever mix and match passports with different names again. Fortunately for him, a friendly phuu yai was coincidentally on the same plane and helped him out with Thai immigration at that time.

Now, here we are post 9/11 and governments (all governments) are looking very hard at travelling documents. If you wish to leave Thailand and travel to another Asian country, then you can travel on the Thai passport, but keep it consistent, don't mix and match travel documents with different names. Why push your luck?

For dual nationals with the same name the old standby of leaving Thailand with the Thai passport and entering the western country with that country's passport and vice versa is normal, but the key is the dual national is travelling with all documents under the same name.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Old man River.

The dual national would not apply for a visa.

Read Rimrada's post. His wife travelled with two passports in diffent names LAST WEEK

Lopburi,

Misspelt mane on a ticket is a seperate issue. If one of dual nationals 2 passports is correctly showing the name on the ticket why should there be a problem?

5 years ago, well before 7/11 I and my "wife" went to BKK to Hong Kong. Gulf air. Her last name is Yooram. The ticket said YoUram (it was my fault).

Check-in denied her boarding but to be fair they then made a phone call (I think to Thai immigration) and relented with a don't do this again. On return from Hong Kong absolutely no problem. (I recall that at return check-in a young Thai lady had excess baggage. We only had hand baggage and were asked if we would check 2 bags through for her. Check-in agent said OK. I said NO WAY which angered my wife).

[Old Man River]

Old man River.

The dual national would not apply for a visa.

Read Rimrada's post. His wife travelled with two passports in diffent names LAST WEEK

Lopburi,

Misspelt mane on a ticket is a seperate issue. If one of dual nationals 2 passports is correctly showing the name on the ticket why should there be a problem?

5 years ago, well before 7/11 I and my "wife" went to BKK to Hong Kong. Gulf air. Her last name is Yooram. The ticket said YoUram (it was my fault).

Check-in denied her boarding but to be fair they then made a phone call (I think to Thai immigration) and relented with a don't do this again. On return from Hong Kong absolutely no problem. (I recall that at return check-in a young Thai lady had excess baggage.  We only had hand baggage and were asked if we would check 2 bags through for her. Check-in agent said OK. I said NO WAY which angered my wife).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Heng]

No issues. My US passport has one name (which is basically my 17 letter Thai last name shortened to 8 letters... done to save hundreds of $ over the years in getting to skip over the "can you spell that" part of all business transactions via phone). Always buy tickets in my US passport name when travelling anywhere other than within Asia (where I will use my Thai passport with tickets that have my 17 letter last name). Spelling your own name (on air tickets) wrong as it's spelled on any of your perfectly LEGAL documents is another issue.

Entering Thailand, if worse came to worse (*because my air ticket is 8 letters* type situations)... just show your Thai id card that matches your Thai passport.

[noctiluca]

Well, since someone mentioned dual nationality, I'm wondering if anybody has ever encountered problems from entering the country where your passport is originated? Specifically, Thailand and the US? Almost everybody told me to use US passport when leaving and entering the country, and use Thai pp when leaving and entering Thailand. Is this still the case? With the post 9/11 and all that, wouldn't an immigration officer from either country ask you and require a proof showing where you have been, since it would not show up on the passport? A friend of mine had a problem once at Don Muang Airport with his Thai pp. The immigration officers almost did not let him through because they said the passport did not indicate where my friend has been since he used his US passport when leaving and entering the US. They told my friend the rule has changed and accused my friend of cheating the system, using two different passports. They said that now they need to track down where one is going and coming from. The need for tracking sounds fair enough, but do you think this is an isolated case? Do you think the officer stepped out of bound? What about on the US side? Would American immigration officers care and demand to know where you have been? Would they have a problem with this the same way their Thai counterparts did? By the way, just an FYI, eventually they let my friend enter Thailand after almost an hour later, but warned my friend never to do that again. Do you think there is something fishy going on? Or does the regulation has truly changed to only allow using one passport wherever you go?

[Maestro]

A friend of mine had a problem once at Don Muang Airport with his Thai pp.

When did this happen? Recently?

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

It is a legal obligation for a US/Thai dual national to use his/her US passport when entering/leaving US? Thai for Thailand I don't know despite trawling the internet.

Where your freind had travelled on his US passport is nothing to do with Thai imm.

Your friend got into Thailand.

We all have friends who like to embelish stories.

Travelling on two passports is more common than you may think. There are an awful lot of Thai women out there who've married Farangs, emigated and subsequently obtained foreign pasports. Not forgetting the children of such marriages, so the numbers of Thai dual nationals is increasing.

[Old Man River]

Seen all, learnt nothing is correct that under US Immigration law, you must enter and leave the US under your US passport.

The US acknowledges dual citizenship (although US law takes precedence over the other country's laws as it relates to issues pertaining to the US). There are many duals living in the US. I have never heard of any problems where a dual enters the US without a port of disembarkation on their US passport as long as they can clearly show where they were on their other country's passport.

On the Thai side the issue is a bit less clear, because Thai law doesn't specifically allow dual nationality, it just doesn't prohibit it. In addition, things are changing as it pertains to the duals living in the South that have been travelling freely between Malaysia and Thailand due to potential security issues that have arisen. I would imagine this will cause confusion for vigilent Immigration officers in Bangkok, and we all would have to be very naive to think that questions will not increase for all dual nationals due to the issues in the South. Still, the duals I am aware of have told me that they will continue to travel as before, but will be prepared for increased questions going forward. None of us are aware of any specific law changes for duals coming from western countries, and none expect any real hassles as long as they can show they have not traveled into any area that would give an Immigration officer cause for concern.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

OK, Harry Belafonte (am I correct),

Call me very niaive but how will issues in the south make it more difficult for my wifes sister who has dual German/Thai nationality passing through BKK.

If the terrorists hotheads in the South export their violence to BKK as they have annnounced EVERY BODY will find processing at BKK become more tedious.

[olaus]

I am not native speaking english, so maybe I misunderstand the problem.

BUT, there is a trick.

After I married my thai woman 8 years ago, I travelled to the thai embassy in my homecountry.

They made an Endorsement and Amendment with a big stamp in my wifes thai passport.

It says, "the holder whose name was shown on this passport as Miss XX XXX (thai name) has henceforth assumed the name of Mrs ZZ ZZZ (european name) after her marriage."

It has happened two times, we had to show this page of her passport in airports to clear the situation.

[noctiluca]

Actually, it happened around May or June this year. Assuming his story is true, and I have no reason to doubt him since he is not the type to make up story, I'm just wondering if the officers were just being vigilant on this occasion, or they were looking for something else. (As for as he and I know, we were told the same to use US pp when entering and leaving the US, and Thai pp when it comes to Thailand.)

I am curious if that ever happens to anyone else in the similar situation at the immigration. If the regulation has not yet changed, I wonder if there is some kind of discrimination going on since my friend does not appear or look like some rich/hi-so/influential/well-connect figure. He told me he was alarmed by what they told him, but he tried to calmly explain to them. They let him sit waiting while they talked to each other for a while. Finally, they let him enter Thailand and sternly advised him to just choose one passport only for all occasions.

Assuming what the immigration officers told him is true (I would imagine the problems with the duals of Thailand and Malaysia may have something to do with it but then again this happened before that), how are we to prepare ourselves or what kind of document do we need to show them? Does it mean we have to show them both passports, but I thought we are not supposed to do that, either in Thailand or the US?

[lopburi3]

Of course you can show both passports but you should only do it when asked or to explain no stamps type of situation. The Thai/Malaysian dual nationality issue is not new (but there is a difference as Malaysia does not allow dual nationality).

[Maestro]

On the Thai side the issue is a bit less clear, because Thai law doesn't specifically allow dual nationality, it just doesn't prohibit it.

Actually, Thailand’s Nationality Act explicitly mentions the possibility of a Thai national acquiring a second nationality and states

a) the procedure to follow for a Thai woman who acquired her husband’s nationality and wishes to renounce her Thai nationality (Section 13)

the requirement that if a child born of a Thai mother and a foreign father acquired the father’s nationality, that child must, if he chooses to retain his father’s nationality, upon reaching the age of 21 offer to renounce his Thai nationality (Section 14)

the conditions that can lead to the revocation of the Thai nationality of a person who also has another nationality (Section 16(2) )

The original poster, LostNoom, asked a hypothetical question, relating to possible complications with the use of two passports with different names. There can be real problems even without that added component of different names.

My wife has heard of cases where a person with dual nationality who had acquired Thai nationality as a child born of a Thai mother and a foreign father had his Thai nationality revoked when he was over 21 and Immigration discovered that he used his foreign passport for travel. I would always advise a dual citizen of this category never to show his foreign passport to Thai immigration or other Thai official.

So you return to Thailand from a trip abroad, present your Thai passport at Immigration and the official asks to see your other passport or why there are no arrival and departure stamps of the country you visited in your Thai passport. The standard answer I have told my son (27) to give is “I was in Switzerland and I didn’t need a visa and my passport didn’t get stamped in Switzerland because my father is Swiss”. The official probably knows that my son has also a Swiss passport but as long as he does not get his hands on it he cannot confiscate it or do anything else about it.

Edit: added link to English version of Nationality Act

Edited October 21, 2005 by maestro