Muscle Or Diplomacy?

[nonthaburial]

A Filipina friend of mine,who has worked in Thailand legally(with WP) for a number of years lent a fellow Filipina Baht 40,000. This was about three years ago. The money was lent to help a family in trouble.

However, after the due period for repayment was long gone she lost contact with the borrower and has only recently been able to track her down.

The Filipina borrower is married to a Thai, has a daughter and works for a very big travel agency in Bangkok (name with held)

After finding this lady and discussing the situation with her, the lender was assured that the money would be paid back at a very small rate of 2,000 per month. The first months payment received was 50% of the agreed figure and since then no more payments have been made.

The borrower now says she cannot afford topay back this sum as she has other debts.

My question is very simple, as diplomacy appears to have failed is it time / right to bring in the muscle in the form of a debt collector?

Any comments please and does anyone know of a debt collector likely to be interested in this case

[Mighty Mouse]

To lend large amounts of money without a written legal agreement is just asking for trouble.

This case is a true test of how good the friendship really is/was. Obviously not good at all as far as the borrower is concerned.

As for bringing in the muscle to force the borrower to pay up, that in my opinion would exasperate the situation. If the borrower genuinely has financial problems, how can she pay a debt collector? You can't get blood out of a stone.

The debt is now three years old. Either write it off or exercise more diplomacy by actively helping the debtor to overcome her financial problems.

This will be a test of how genuine the lenders friendship really is.

The moral to this story is never lend large amounts of money to friends unless you want to end the friendship.

[h90]

all the time the same things!

book it under NPL and never lend money again, this is Thailand noone can give the money back and noone even try really......

A Filipina friend of mine,who has worked in Thailand legally(with WP) for a number of years lent a fellow Filipina Baht 40,000. This was about three years ago. The money was lent to help a family in trouble.

However, after the due period for repayment was long gone she lost contact with the borrower and has only recently been able to track her down.

The Filipina borrower is married to a Thai, has a daughter and works for a very big travel agency in Bangkok (name with held)

After finding this lady and discussing the situation with her, the lender was assured that the money would be paid back at a very small rate of 2,000 per month. The first months payment received was 50% of the agreed figure and since then no more payments have been made.

The borrower now says she cannot afford topay back this sum as she has other debts.

My question is very simple, as diplomacy appears to have failed is it time / right to bring in the muscle in the form of a debt collector?

Any comments please and does anyone know of a debt collector likely to be interested in this case

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[opothai]

if mucsle is used and the borrower complains to the police the lender can find themselves in big trouble under new legislation

[thedude]

revalue the debt to account for 3 years' interest. say 80k total.

take a 'haircut' by selling down the debt to a specialised loan shark at 50 cents to the dollar.

it may even be possible to structure in a few 'puts' and 'calls' depending on which way the deal swings.

[Overej]

revalue the debt to account for 3 years' interest.  say 80k total.

take a 'haircut' by selling down the debt to a specialised loan shark at 50 cents to the dollar.

it may even be possible to structure in a few 'puts' and 'calls' depending on which way the deal swings. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i think revalueing the debt for 3 years wil not work (i'm not sure, only opinion). reason is the amount itself (40K) can't afford to pay 'coz the borrower have lot of debt's. so, what i can suggest to the lender, be patient for another 3 years, (if you can).

[mijan24]

revalue the debt to account for 3 years' interest.  say 80k total.

take a 'haircut' by selling down the debt to a specialised loan shark at 50 cents to the dollar.

it may even be possible to structure in a few 'puts' and 'calls' depending on which way the deal swings.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dude as i read it what you have proposed is normal here in thailand and although it sounds harsh - borrowing with no intention of repaying is dishonest.

When the situation is assessed one must look at what can be repossessed; car, motorcycle, TV, house, etc. - i actually posted some comments on another thread about loan recoveries (loan sharks) i understand the lender is not in this business but at the end of the day is out of pocket - One must ask why should the lender suffer for doing a friend a favour?

Of course this is Thailand not the Philippines and for those who are squeamish about repossession - In the Philippines life is lived by the law of the gun and a simple no pay means elimination (and then repossession).

Welcome to the reality of living in a third world country.

Edited October 19, 2005 by mijan24

[NordicMan]

My question is very simple, as diplomacy appears to have failed is it time / right to bring in the muscle in the form of a debt collector?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Filippina never intended to repay the loan. Never lend money to anyone in Thailand without the expectation of losing it forever.

You can get your money back by using muscle. Understand that this is crossing a threshold, so if you have been living your life as a "nice guy" you may take some time to think about it.

When you do decide to get it back, add interest to the amount for three years, say 100% (in total, not per year). In this world, you can make up any percentage you want. Offer the debt collector 50% of the sum for his effort. Therefore, make sure you add enough interest to cover his fees.

Anyone can come up 80k baht to pay back, also in Thailand, if the pressure is high enough. Do understand that this is a third world country. If the woman really is poor and doesn't have the money, she will have to go to "work" or similar to get the money.

No need to waste time on diplomacy, you'll come across as weak and get nowhere. Either just forget it, learn your lesson and never lend to people in Thailand again. Or, accept that she'll have a tough time, but debt must be repaid and she put herself in this position.

-NM

[britmaveric]

Muscle will get said friend deported.

[meemiathai]

My advice is:

Never lend money that you are not prepared to lose!!

If you decide to use muscle, be prepared to get yourself into a lot of shit.

[kasi]

40000 isn't much money for the average westerner.

A couple of hookers in Miami will set you back that much.

If they are Buddhist I might have a gentle discussion regarding good actions vs not so good actions.

Keep smiling regardless of the outcome. You may be surprised.

Otherwise chalk it up as 40K lesson in life.

We all get them from time to time!

If you want to be vindictive that put's you into a different sort of arena. Are you ready for that?

Edited October 20, 2005 by kasi

[thedude]

revalue the debt to account for 3 years' interest.  say 80k total.

take a 'haircut' by selling down the debt to a specialised loan shark at 50 cents to the dollar.

it may even be possible to structure in a few 'puts' and 'calls' depending on which way the deal swings.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dude as i read it what you have proposed is normal here in thailand and although it sounds harsh - borrowing with no intention of repaying is dishonest.

When the situation is assessed one must look at what can be repossessed; car, motorcycle, TV, house, etc. - i actually posted some comments on another thread about loan recoveries (loan sharks) i understand the lender is not in this business but at the end of the day is out of pocket - One must ask why should the lender suffer for doing a friend a favour?

Of course this is Thailand not the Philippines and for those who are squeamish about repossession - In the Philippines life is lived by the law of the gun and a simple no pay means elimination (and then repossession).

Welcome to the reality of living in a third world country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

mijan24, actually i have no idea what the normal market practice is. thought i'd help out with some financial restructuring advise.

i thought it was a familiar picture from what i've seen in other quarters of business, cooking up something from nothing, and then selling it down at inflated prices to someone else and taking profit.

[nonthaburial]

Thanks folks, but please dont misunderstand me. When I said "muscle" I certainly did not have any intentions of lying in ambush one dark night with a shotgun under my arm. I merely meant the "muscle"of a legal debt collector.

[sbk]

My father-in-law loans money all the time, with a signed contract and the land papers as guarantee. Does your friend have a legal leg to stand on? Did she get a signed IOU or any kind of proof that the money was even loaned? This is the first question you need answered before you can come up with a legal solution.

[TRIPxCORE]

I would most certainly use muscle and force the borrower to pay the money back if this was happening in another country. Since this is Thailand, that is not a good option to pursue. What I would do is go to the borrower and demand to take something from them, with force if you have to, thats valuable to be used as collateral. Tell the borrower you have been tacking on interest all this time and will continue to tack on more until the debt is paid. The longer they wait to pay, the more things you take from them. If the borrower starts making any sort of payments at all, at least this is a sign of good faith and you should cease taking things from the borrower. Unless the lender is willing to just let this go, which I would never do, pressure must be applied or this will never be settled. Tough choices for a tough situation.

[britmaveric]

I would most certainly use muscle and force the borrower to pay the money back if this was happening in another country.  Since this is Thailand, that is not a good option to pursue.  What I would do is go to the borrower and demand to take something from them, with force if you have to, thats valuable to be used as collateral.  Tell the borrower you have been tacking on interest all this time and will continue to tack on more until the debt is paid.  The longer they wait to pay, the more things you take from them.  If the borrower starts making any sort of payments at all, at least this is a sign of good faith and you should cease taking things from the borrower.  Unless the lender is willing to just let this go, which I would never do, pressure must be applied or this will never be settled.  Tough choices for a tough situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Trip - being Thailand and if you pulled that tactic, I'd literally laff at you and tell you to &lt;deleted&gt; off. Force? Just asking for trouble since this seems to be a verbal agreement and no way to prove.

To make matters worse this doesnt even involve a Thai national, and its 3yrs have transpired without any repayment.

Chalk it up as an expensive lesson on not to lend dosh out.

[cdnvic]

Take Brit's sound advice. The law advises us that discussing the hiring of illegal debt collectors, loan sharks, etc is a bad idea for the forum. Therefor this discussion is closed.

cv