Israel deports five pro-Palestinian activists ahead of arrival of Gaza-bound aid flotilla

[Jingthing]

How many of those who are biased anti-Israel ever say anything critical of the Palestinian side, such as they should give up the rocket attacks, and give up the expectation of unconditional right of return to an Israel (with smaller borders) for the sake of peace? To negotiate, you need to both give AND take.

[Wallaby]

My bias is against any govt that just does what it wants against international law and the Israelu will just do what it wants whether the UN finds it legal or illegal.

Wallaby:

How many nations actually follow what the UN mandates if it is against their better national interests?

Simply curious to know if you can back up your statement.

Read what I said. Israel does not follow UN mandates. Do you really want me back up my statement by listing all the UN mandates Israel has ignored?

[Wallaby]

How many of those who are biased anti-Israel ever say anything critical of the Palestinian side, such as they should give up the rocket attacks, and give up the expectation of unconditional right of return to an Israel (with smaller borders) for the sake of peace? To negotiate, you need to both give AND take.

Of course the Palestinians should pull their heads in and tow the peace line. It does work both ways. But all you get in these threads are comments that everything Israel does is right. It seems to me that the hardliners for Israel on here would not be satisfied until all Palestinians were bombed out of existence.

Just look at some of the comments on this thread about terrorists. Does anyone really, honestly, believe that the flotillas are a genuine terrorist threat to the security of Israel?

[Ulysses G.]

How many of those who are biased anti-Israel ever say anything critical of the Palestinian side, such as they should give up the rocket attacks...

Pretty much none, unless confronted about it when they will come up with some mild rebuke and then attack the Israelis again.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[kuffki]

How many of those who are biased anti-Israel ever say anything critical of the Palestinian side, such as they should give up the rocket attacks, and give up the expectation of unconditional right of return to an Israel (with smaller borders) for the sake of peace? To negotiate, you need to both give AND take.

Of course the Palestinians should pull their heads in and tow the peace line. It does work both ways. But all you get in these threads are comments that everything Israel does is right. It seems to me that the hardliners for Israel on here would not be satisfied until all Palestinians were bombed out of existence.

Just look at some of the comments on this thread about terrorists. Does anyone really, honestly, believe that the flotillas are a genuine terrorist threat to the security of Israel?

Well having Hamas "agent" behind the Dutch ship Or the captain of the boat refusing to identify himself to GREEK customs kind of breaks your argument of being genuine.

PS.No not a security threat but a clear provocation

Edited July 8, 2011 by kuffki

[Ulysses G.]

Well having Hamas "agent" behind the Dutch ship...

Gosh, why would you complain about that?

[Steely Dan]

Interestingly enough Flotilla II has just received another blow as yesterday the UN ruled the Israeli blockade was Legal. Get that peaceniks - LEGAL!!

http://www.debka.com/article/21093/

Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan applied the brakes to the process of reconciliation with Israel when he learned Wednesday, July 6, that the UN inquiry commission into last year's Turkish-led flotilla had ruled Israel's naval blockade on Gaza legal.

Peaceniks? Do you have something against peace? Are you a warmonger?

By the way, the last flotilla was boarded in international waters and that is ILLEGAL.

I am also a little perturbed by the 'peaceniks' comment. What is that all about?

Wallaby... do you claim that the UN is wrong?

Seems to me you are biased against Israel.

Peaceniks, Is shorthand for the misguided activists who take on a set menu of causes often with pretty shady backers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1tPpjd5ZRU

No I'm not a warmonger, just hate those who try to sanitize their dirty agendas.

[Steely Dan]

It would appear that the official Flotilla II song has been released, it's called Guns, guns, guns.

[chuckd]

My bias is against any govt that just does what it wants against international law and the Israelu will just do what it wants whether the UN finds it legal or illegal.

Wallaby:

How many nations actually follow what the UN mandates if it is against their better national interests?

Simply curious to know if you can back up your statement.

Read what I said. Israel does not follow UN mandates. Do you really want me back up my statement by listing all the UN mandates Israel has ignored?

I, somehow, have overlooked my part of the question addressing Israeli actions. My question was in response to your statement that your bias is against "any govt" that does not follow international law and UN mandates.

Now read my question based on the quoted sentence from you, and try to come up with a coherent response to it.

To wit, name me some countries that follow UN mandates when it is not in their best national interests.

[Pakboong]

The Israelis do what they must do to protect a small piece of land surrounded by foes.

They do not do what they 'want'.

What they 'want' is to live in safety.

The terrorists ignore international law, we all know this. So, Israel does what she must to respond effectively...

Fight fire with fire, but, as usual, the terrorist enablers make excuses for the Islamic fanatics in Hamas and try to demonize their democratic enemies for fighting back.

This is a report from 2004 well before Hamas came into power.

"According to Israeli human rights groups and others who assiduously gather data on all children killed in the conflict, at least 82 Palestinian children were killed before any Israeli children were killed – and the largest single cause of these Palestinian children’s deaths was “gunfire to the head.” Yet, almost no one is aware of this, since Times coverage consistently omitted or minimized coverage of these Palestinian deaths."

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/nyt-misrep.html

I have reviewed the data several different ways and times. The information pretty much stands alone in that the data analyzed was objective and not open for interpretation.

[Wallaby]

My bias is against any govt that just does what it wants against international law and the Israelu will just do what it wants whether the UN finds it legal or illegal.

Wallaby:

How many nations actually follow what the UN mandates if it is against their better national interests?

Simply curious to know if you can back up your statement.

Read what I said. Israel does not follow UN mandates. Do you really want me back up my statement by listing all the UN mandates Israel has ignored?

I, somehow, have overlooked my part of the question addressing Israeli actions. My question was in response to your statement that your bias is against "any govt" that does not follow international law and UN mandates.

Now read my question based on the quoted sentence from you, and try to come up with a coherent response to it.

To wit, name me some countries that follow UN mandates when it is not in their best national interests.

Just one off the top of my head was Mohammed Haneef. He was arrested on suspicion of being involved in the Glasgow bombing. All charges were dropped but the govt revoked his oz working visa and deported him to India. Our federal court found that the government acted against the UN international human rights law and Haneef was allowed to return to oz, against the wishes of our govt.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Wallaby

[Scott]

That's an interesting twist. I believe the basis for the revocation of his visa and subsequent deportation was illegal based on the fact that he was guilty of no crime.

[Scott]

"Haneef's ensuing detention became the longest without charge in recent Australian history, which caused great controversy in Australia and India. Public outcry over the incident was further increased when the Australian Government denied Haneef the presumption of innocence, along with the Australian federal government's actions in his case."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamed_Haneef

But we are starting to stray off the topic.

[Wallaby]

That's an interesting twist. I believe the basis for the revocation of his visa and subsequent deportation was illegal based on the fact that he was guilty of no crime.

A visa can be cancelled on 'character' grounds. No guilt need to be found. This case was huge here and a very sore thorn in the govt's side.

He was charged with supporting terrorism but due to the 'lack' of evidence he was granted bail. His visa was cancelled within a couple of hours of that bail decision so that he could be held in custody. Basically his visa was cancelled on 'character' grounds.

If interested I've posted a link below from a well respected barrister that was not involved with either side of the case. This is a quote from it.....

The Minister has hinted strongly that if Dr Haneef is acquitted he will be removed from Australia anyway. He will not say why, apart from references to bad character. It seems that although a charge is enough to show bad character, an acquittal will not establish good character.

http://www.thejustic...edoms&Itemid=33

Edit: Yes I'll get back on topic now. Or maybe just go and have some beers.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Wallaby

[Scott]

I am familiar with the case, but I don't see where in the Court's decision there was any reference to 'UN international human rights law.'

But again, we digress.

[Ulysses G.]

The Israelis do what they must do to protect a small piece of land surrounded by foes.

They do not do what they 'want'.

What they 'want' is to live in safety.

The terrorists ignore international law, we all know this. So, Israel does what she must to respond effectively...

Fight fire with fire, but, as usual, the terrorist enablers make excuses for the Islamic fanatics in Hamas and try to demonize their democratic enemies for fighting back.

This is a report from 2004 well before Hamas came into power.

You mean back when the PLO were still active in terrorism. They only stopped the violence because of their feud with Hamas.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Pakboong]

The Israelis do what they must do to protect a small piece of land surrounded by foes.

They do not do what they 'want'.

What they 'want' is to live in safety.

The terrorists ignore international law, we all know this. So, Israel does what she must to respond effectively...

Fight fire with fire, but, as usual, the terrorist enablers make excuses for the Islamic fanatics in Hamas and try to demonize their democratic enemies for fighting back.

This is a report from 2004 well before Hamas came into power.

You mean back when the PLO were still active in terrorism. They only stopped the violence because of their feud with Hamas.

There has always been violence but several claim that Hamas is unique in its terrorism and resulting violence. The statistical data using deaths as the standard of measurement indicates that there really is no significant difference.

The main point of the work is how it is reported and the resulting public opinion. The New York Times is used to measure reporting of actual deaths. The raw data clearly points out that Israeli deaths are over reported and Palestinian deaths are under reported. If you don't agree, fine. Read the article before you conclude.

It was Mark Twain who said, "What people don't know is not a problem, it is what they know for sure that ain't so."

[Ulysses G.]

There has always been violence but several claim that Hamas is unique in its terrorism and resulting violence.

Not me. The PLO were just like Hamas, only with a different name. They only stopped using terrorism to curry favor with the West in order to be top dog, but, my guess is that they prefer the old way. Joining up with Hamas pretty much proves it.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[SAffer]

[

No I'm not a warmonger, just hate those who try to sanitize their dirty agendas.

Ok, because people who live on a Kibbutz in Israel are called Kibbutzniks... so the Peaceniks seemed a little like people who just want to live in peace or something. I must confess, I never heard it before.

[Ulysses G.]

It seems that the latest Hate Flotilla will not set sail

The ships of fools, knaves hypocrites, bigots, and supporters of terrorism that tried to break Israel's navel blockade of Gaza have now apparently been run aground.

Most of the hard-left extremists have gone home following a decision by the Greek government to prevent the boats from leaving Greek ports. The resulting fiasco, which was designed to discredit Israel, has succeeded only in discrediting the Israel bashers on the boats by exposing their true purpose.

The alleged purpose was to feed the starving Arabs of Gaza. The problem is that the Arabs of Gaza are not starving. Nor are they in need of outside help.

read more: http://www.newsmax.com/AlanDershowitz/israel-gaza-arabs-iran/2011/07/10/id/403072

Edited July 11, 2011 by Ulysses G.