Thai Students Intelligence Quotient (IQ) Below Global Average

[Berkshire]

Since this thread is about IQ's, I was a little curious to find out what countries had the highest average score. I think you'd be surprised to know who's number one:

http://www.iq-tests-...by_country.html

So where does your country rank?

Yes, I don't buy that. The chart here is more believable:

http://en.wikipedia....alth_of_Nations

Yeah, I'm starting to realize that the first chart is a bit bizarre. Here's yet another one which seems to match the more predictable pattern: http://www.sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

[Scott]

Several off-topic posts removed. This is not a political thread--plenty of those running if you want to comment on the IQ of politicians. It's also not about drivers--a few of those running as well.

[Xangsamhua]

The statistics on books is interesting, but may not be representative of much. I know a great many people who read for professional growth. Trade journals etc.

Regarding reading habits between Westerners and people in Asia, I usually see Westerners with a book while riding on buses and at the beach. I seldom see a local doing that.

I'm not sure that what adults do or read is related to students' IQs.

Agreed. It's irrelevant to IQ scores.

It may be symptomatic, but not causative.

Reading among the non-elite in western countries arose from the wide availability of vernacular Bibles in the 16th and 17th centuries. Later, the concentration of people in cities and towns during the Industrial Revolution in Britain stimulated interest in social and political reform in which the working people could participate. People became interested in learning more about how society could be changed. This extended to the British overseas dominions - Canada, Australia, etc, The Education Acts of the 1870s together with the emergence of trade unions and adult education classes for working people (Mechanics Institutes, WEA, lending libraries, etc) stimulated further literacy and reading habits. People thought they could make a difference.

The above conditions, other than universal primary and secondary education, have not yet happened in Thailand. Buddhist chanting is in Pali. Trade unions are very weak. Few participate in adult education. Free libraries are conspicuous by their scarcity. The internet has very limited availability in many villages. People don't think they can make a difference. So why read? They can only have an impact by throwing their weight behind some powerful figure.

OK, so this may not be related to IQ scores, but then IQ scores themselves are not really relevant to anything much in real life.

[Xangsamhua]

Since this thread is about IQ's, I was a little curious to find out what countries had the highest average score. I think you'd be surprised to know who's number one:

http://www.iq-tests-...by_country.html

So where does your country rank?

Yes, I don't buy that. The chart here is more believable:

http://en.wikipedia....alth_of_Nations

Yeah, I'm starting to realize that the first chart is a bit bizarre. Here's yet another one which seems to match the more predictable pattern: http://www.sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

Any chart that says the average citizen of even the poorest country is intellectually impaired (e.g. Equatorial Guinea 59) is bizarre. Intellectual impairment is usually defined as below IQ 70 and unable to function independently in normal daily life. For any nation or region to produce a mean score of below 70 indicates that the problem is with the test and/or its administration.

[wolf5370]

The quality level of Thai education should not be a factor in determining IQ, unless children are not exercising their literacy, numeracy, discriminatory and predictive abilities at all. Thais have a very high rate of literacy, so if the test is a valid one, the mean should be close to 100 (as it is nationally) and the score range following a bell curve. Significant factors such as poor nutrition, general health, social and personal distress will impact on results, as will, perhaps, some general cultural dissonance with the IQ testing process and expectations (e.g. memorization and repetition, a feature of Po Noh schooling in Narathiwat, is not tested).

I'm sorry? A high rate of literacy? Where did you get that gem from? If, by literacy, you mean reading ability, the majority of Thais read way under the global average number of books annually - less than one a year, I believe, but could be mistaken - but do read a very high number of comics.

http://www.unicef.or...tistics.html#77

Literacy rates for Thailand (ages 15-24) - 98% for both males and females.You're talking about reading habits, not literacy.

Here are some statistics about US reading habits:

1/3 of high school graduates never read another book for the rest of their lives.

42 percent of college graduates never read another book after college.

80 percent of U.S. families did not buy or read a book last year.

70 percent of U.S. adults have not been in a bookstore in the last five years.

http://www.humorwrit...tlingstats.html

Most Westerners I know seem to read only escapist fiction unless they're doing formal study.

"70 percent of U.S. adults have not been in a bookstore in the last five years. " - Amazon?

"Most Westerners I know seem to read only escapist fiction unless they're doing formal study." - There is a strong link between intelligence and creativity and imagination, so reading fiction for fun is probably good in that respect - though perhaps not as good for attaining knowledge as reading an encyclopedia.

[atyclb]

Iodine deficiency is very likely in the mix. Poor educational standards, lack of teaching students "how to think", etc etc, cultural stuff impeding critical thinking, analyses (losing face). Its really tragic, wasting so many ves in a country so rich. sorry for big bold typeface, i copied and pasted

Babies Born to Mothers with Untreated Hypothyroidism Have Lower I.Q.'s

Routine Thyroid Screening Should Occur During Pregnancy

Dateline: 08/19/99 August 19, 1999 -- Today's New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) is reporting on the results of a new research study that found that untreated hypothyroidism during pregnancy may affect a child's psychological development, and result in substantially lower I.Q. levels, reduced motor skills, and problems with attention, language and reading.

The study found that women with untreated underactive thyroids during pregnancy are nearly four times more likely to have children with lower I.Q. scores. The researchers indicated that approximately 1 out of every 50 women have hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) during pregnancy, however other experts believe this number may actually be far larger, and that a larger percentage of the population is undiagnosed or undertreated.

The study showed that 19 percent of the children born to mothers with thyroid deficiency had IQ scores of 85 or lower. This was compared to a reduced IQ level of only 5 percent of those born to mothers without such thyroid problems. According to James E. Haddow, MD, lead study author, Vice President and Medical Director for the Foundation for Blood Research, the range below 85 I.Q. level can mean significant impairment for children.

"The children whose scores are in this range may face life-long developmental challenges. It might be possible to prevent these problems through the early diagnosis and treatment of thyroid disease in their mothers."

The study found that the 62 children whose mothers were hypothyroid during pregnancy performed less well on all the various intelligence and IQ tests used for measurement. The children of the 48 women who were not treated for thyroid disease during the pregnancy had an average I.Q. score that was 7 points lower than the children in the control group, with 19 percent scoring 85 or less. About Hypothyroidism and its Diagnosis

Hypothyroidism, the condition in which the thyroid is not producing sufficient hormone, can result from thyroid surgery, radioactive iodine ablation of a hyperactive thyroid, the presence of thyroid nodules or goiter, or most commonly due to autoimmune thyroid disease such as Hashimoto's. Common symptoms of hypothyroidism include fatigue, weight gain, hair loss, constipation, muscle weakness, slow heart rate, depression, dry skin, and infertility, though dozens of symptoms are often seen in hypothyroid patients. [see: Hypothyroidism Symptoms Checklist" for a comprehensive list of symptoms.]

[NanaFoods]

Here are some statistics about US reading habits:

1/3 of high school graduates never read another book for the rest of their lives.

42 percent of college graduates never read another book after college.

80 percent of U.S. families did not buy or read a book last year.

70 percent of U.S. adults have not been in a bookstore in the last five years.

http://www.humorwrit...tlingstats.html

Most Westerners I know seem to read only escapist fiction unless they're doing formal study.

Misleading statistics - Does not consider how many Americans get their literature online.

[hammered]

IQ tests are quite well known for being racially and culturally bias, so why would anyone waste five seconds relying on what they "proved" unless of course to reinforce the readers personal bias

[jayboy]

The statistics on books is interesting, but may not be representative of much. I know a great many people who read for professional growth. Trade journals etc.

Regarding reading habits between Westerners and people in Asia, I usually see Westerners with a book while riding on buses and at the beach. I seldom see a local doing that.

I'm not sure that what adults do or read is related to students' IQs.

Agreed. It's irrelevant to IQ scores.

It may be symptomatic, but not causative.

Reading among the non-elite in western countries arose from the wide availability of vernacular Bibles in the 16th and 17th centuries. Later, the concentration of people in cities and towns during the Industrial Revolution in Britain stimulated interest in social and political reform in which the working people could participate. People became interested in learning more about how society could be changed. This extended to the British overseas dominions - Canada, Australia, etc, The Education Acts of the 1870s together with the emergence of trade unions and adult education classes for working people (Mechanics Institutes, WEA, lending libraries, etc) stimulated further literacy and reading habits. People thought they could make a difference.

The above conditions, other than universal primary and secondary education, have not yet happened in Thailand. Buddhist chanting is in Pali. Trade unions are very weak. Few participate in adult education. Free libraries are conspicuous by their scarcity. The internet has very limited availability in many villages. People don't think they can make a difference. So why read? They can only have an impact by throwing their weight behind some powerful figure.

OK, so this may not be related to IQ scores, but then IQ scores themselves are not really relevant to anything much in real life.

Very interesting.All the factors you list are less influential in the UK today than say 130 years with the decline of the respectable and industrious working class, heavily influenced by a self improving trade union movement often combined with a non conformist religious faith (many of whose whose modern successors I suggest were absorbed by Thatcherism).If one examines the written evidence of the nineteenth century working class (letters, journals etc) one is struck by what seems to the modern observer to be fantastically high standards of literacy, grasp of grammar and syntax.

[sirchai]

i think that the only thing that this research has proved is that in thailand the educatio system is awful, particulary in the rural areas of the country, i am really sorry for those poor thai kids

Fact is that the educational system is and always was very questionable. I’m talking about a rural town in the lower northeast now. Even primary kids know that they’ll pass their English tests. One hour per week English taught by a foreigner can’t change anything. Most Thai English teachers can hardly speak in English.

When they come to high school, there’re 15 more students in a class, the regular English program can’t show any good results. Thais teach Grammar, which seems to be so important, but how can you speak any language without knowing some vocabulary?

Would a student fail, then it must have been the teacher who failed. I remember a Matthayom six student who never came to class. But he did show up to make his ‘test’. He couldn’t even understand simple questions like:” How old are you”…a.s.o.

It was impossible to give him a bad score; the Thais wanted me to retest this boy. In the end he walked away with a good score, because his daddy was a big shot.

Some student’s parents are teachers, some others government officials, or people with a lot of cash.

There’s no student to blame, it’s the ‘losing face’ and the poor education of most Thai educators.:jap:

[pogal]

It's common knowledge that the Thai education system is messed up. Parents and teachers lose face if students fail. Students who are aware that they can't fail don't try. Thai teachers are paid a pittance so they work accordingly and the best brains go elsewhere. Parents pay fees and it's a done deal. Schools have deals with Universities to supply them with 'x' number of students each year and they give them the required grades to go there. Everyone's happy as students are ushered the education system. The whole system needs reform. Will it happen? Do the current government want a population who can reason, read media IN ENGLISH, make informed decisions, and question their policies? Sadly, the answer is no.

A hundred years ago there was a saying in the western world," The mayor keeps them stupid while the pastor keeps them poor".This is at current times still a fact in Thailand.

PERFECT analogy!

[HerbalEd]

i think that the only thing that this research has proved is that in thailand the educatio system is awful, particulary in the rural areas of the country, i am really sorry for those poor thai kids

Believe me, there are many other countries with education systems much, much worse than Thailand. Actually, for a third-world country Thailand's not doing so bad.

[evanson]

The statistics on books is interesting, but may not be representative of much. I know a great many people who read for professional growth. Trade journals etc.

Regarding reading habits between Westerners and people in Asia, I usually see Westerners with a book while riding on buses and at the beach. I seldom see a local doing that.

I'm not sure that what adults do or read is related to students' IQs.

That's not true. I saw a Thai reading a book only last week. An actual book, I think.

'Nuff said.

[evanson]

i think that the only thing that this research has proved is that in thailand the educatio system is awful, particulary in the rural areas of the country, i am really sorry for those poor thai kids

Believe me, there are many other countries with education systems much, much worse than Thailand. Actually, for a third-world country Thailand's not doing so bad.

Would you care to list the countries 'much worse' than Thailand? And as far as 'third-world' countries go, I have seen many more second hand (they can't afford 'new')bookshops in Rangoon than bloody Sukhumvit.

[Considered Opinion]

Does anyone else think the graphic accompanying this article needs a rethink - 85% (ish) of Thai children have an IQ of less than 100 = happy smiling girls face. What is there to smile about?? Is she stupid?

Ahhhh... yes.

[Macmundi]

<br />

<br />It's not that Thai's are stupid, it's that they are not educated.  IQ measures what you know, not what your innate intelligence is.  This just shows how terrible the Thai education system is..<br />

<br /><br />No, it doesn't. Your post shows us how terrible your general knowledge of the subject is however...<br />

<br /><br /><br />

That's right. IQ is exactly the measurement of how stupid you are. (No, I mean of how bright you are) People with a high IQ score may not be well educated, and will not need too much effort to learn, explore, and master. People with a low IQ score can also achieve that by working harder to learn from others and study more. People who are both high in IQ and hard working can go beyond boundaries.

Unfortunately, IQ in Thailand is quite low, the education ministry is not promoting the resources to higher education. Thai students are too much exposed to extracurricular activities that develops everything else but their brain.

[cup-O-coffee]

It's a good thing these kids don't have to sit in front if an immigration officer and hear them say, "The big fish eats the little fish", and then get denied the right to continue their education.

Actually, Thai kids know how to do the things that they know how to do. The damning thing is; the things they know how to do aren't very practical in this modern day and world.

Are you smarter than an eighth grade Thai kid?

I'll bet FOX doesn't try that angle. LOL.

[Scott]

One off-topic post deleted and a reply to it.

Please stick to the topic.

[jaideeguy]

AND THE CURE IS......

"To promote higher IQs, he said parents should express their love for their children, provide them with nutritious food and allow them to interact with nature.

"Let children play without restrictions because that will boost their creativity," Apichai said. "Aside from that, parents should encourage their children to read, sing and play sports."

Wake up you idiots.......play without restrictions means internet games and cartoons for hours as they do now and Thais have always alowed their children to play without restrictions and look at the product!! They are the ones governing and policing the populace now.

And nutritious food means Lays potato chips and unlimited amounts of sugar and plastic wrapped foods from 7/11.

DICIPLINE is the only cure or they will end up being as stupid as their teachers and that is stupid muck muck.

[Scott]

One post with a quote only has been deleted.

IQ is established when children are quite young. Most very young children have little interest in television. Young children prefer to interact with their environment--touching, smelling and tasting things. Television is not interactive.

Nutrition is the responsibility of the parents and probably plays a part in the lower IQ in Thailand.

There isn't much information given about the type of test administered, but I would guess that some of the racial and cultural bias have been removed or factored into the results.

[Credo]

Are the schools bad because they are dealing with students with low IQ?

[KKK]

This is why kids now have ID cards. They keep forgetting their name and birthdate.

[dhrobertson]

i think that the only thing that this research has proved is that in thailand the educatio system is awful, particulary in the rural areas of the country, i am really sorry for those poor thai kids

Believe me, there are many other countries with education systems much, much worse than Thailand. Actually, for a third-world country Thailand's not doing so bad.

Would you care to list the countries 'much worse' than Thailand? And as far as 'third-world' countries go, I have seen many more second hand (they can't afford 'new')bookshops in Rangoon than bloody Sukhumvit.

Thailand's economy is about 10% agriculture and 45% manufacturing.

The lack of a decent education system is the biggest problem facing the country.

In terms of Gini coefficients it is ranked 45th in the world in terms of inequality (btw, USA is 40th!). Education is the solution.

Annual budget is about 60B USD per annum so there is no shortage of funds, it's a matter of direction.

With relatively low IQs (for whatever reason) good education is particularly important.

I've seen the system at all levels including junior schools, senior schools, colleges and universities. It is universally crap. English teachers who can't speak English; military style drilling of kids; hopeless vocational training; graduates with almost no knowledge of their own subject.

It will take a generation to fix. The lack of competant teachers is the main problem in my view.

[slapout]

Potential university students (while in secondary) are given tests which reflect their background/understanding of math, language, science etc. These tests are written in several languages, I would guess Thai is not one of them. The individual results are presented in the students percentile placement, by age/class for that country and on a international level.

If Thailand or any country is serious about a hard look at their education system evaluation on a national/international level, these test can be translated to local language. The results would be a indicator of areas which may need a tweak or two.

Diet, social status, etc will probably be found to be a relatively small factor on the overall scores. This would mean that the blame would be on the system and those responsible for its success or lack thereof. We certainly could not have that, could we?

[happyrobert]

Back in the days when my IQ was measured, it was not a test of intelligence, rather a test of the potential ability to learn.

So, yes, Tutone, your assessmet is correct, and since the iodine intake in the NE is likely quite adequate, I'd have to say that khun A is lacking something himself. How can parents who never read encourage their children to read?

[Thaddeus]

Back in the days when my IQ was measured, it was not a test of intelligence, rather a test of the potential ability to learn.

Any Brits remember the 11+

[jdg]

....

As for not more than 2% having IQs of less than 70, also wrong. IQ is defined as having a standard deviation of 15 (or 16 in some versions of the test). 70 is two standard deviations away from 100, so approximately 2.5% of subjects will have an IQ of less than 70 (and 2.5% have an IQ above 130).

No, you are wrong.

While it is theoretically true that, if IQ scores were normally distributed, there would be just over 2% of the population with scores of 70 or less on a test with a mean =100 and a standard deviation of 15, in reality there is always a hump in the lower end of the IQ frequency distribution leading to a greater than expected number of individuals with IQs less than 70. The reason for this is the multitude of genetic, congenital and environmental factors which impair cognitive functioning.

DNPB0...my..hat..is...off...to...you....(space..bar...on..keyboard..not..working..sorry...for..dots)..nice..to...see..high..level...thinking..here...I'm...sure...many...will....be....happy...knowing..there...will...always....be...a...hump.....in...the....lower...iQ...(LOL)

[jdg]

....

As for not more than 2% having IQs of less than 70, also wrong. IQ is defined as having a standard deviation of 15 (or 16 in some versions of the test). 70 is two standard deviations away from 100, so approximately 2.5% of subjects will have an IQ of less than 70 (and 2.5% have an IQ above 130).

No, you are wrong.

While it is theoretically true that, if IQ scores were normally distributed, there would be just over 2% of the population with scores of 70 or less on a test with a mean =100 and a standard deviation of 15, in reality there is always a hump in the lower end of the IQ frequency distribution leading to a greater than expected number of individuals with IQs less than 70. The reason for this is the multitude of genetic, congenital and environmental factors which impair cognitive functioning.

DNPB0...my..hat..is...off...to...you....(space..bar...on..keyboard..not..working..sorry...for..dots)..nice..to...see..high..level...thinking..here...I'm...sure...many...will....be....happy...knowing..there...will...always....be...a...hump.....in...the....lower...iQ...(LOL)

Sorry, Talking about IQ press alt+255 as an alternate for space bar 555555

[Thaddeus]

Sorry, Talking about IQ press alt+255 as an alternate for space bar 555555

Or copy a space from any post and press ctrl v when required.

Little bit easier.

[Deeral]

IQ tests are quite well known for being racially and culturally bias, so why would anyone waste five seconds relying on what they "proved" unless of course to reinforce the readers personal bias

Yes - in essence this thread is about something that doesn't exist.

It also looks like several posters can't differentiate between the concept of education or abilities and the flawed concept of a universal system to measure an indefinable human characteristic.