Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[SeanMoran]

Here we go again

Chai ...

*facepalms self*

[animatic]

This is what i am wondering. Why is it left to another party to bring the case forward? Do the police stand and watch a crime happen, and do nothing unless someone reports it? No they don't... well actually, in Thailand.... ok scrap that analogy.

[Crushdepth]

You know, the time to take them to court has passed. To do this now is just sour grapes. They lost the election big time; this action is just an insult to the people of Thailand. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted with the abuses of power that have been shown the last few years, and this is just another example.

The time to take them to court has NOT passed. There is 7 days after the election to lodge any complaints.

Is lodging a complaint with the courts an abuse of power??

Lodging complaints about electoral fraud is an essential part of democracy. This may be news to some of the boneheads around here, but canning people for cheating in elections is part of the democratic process.

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

I agree its predictable. And if they're wrong they will FAIL. That's what the courts are for. Get it? The courts are part of the democratic process in action.

What you fail to understand is that IF YOU COMMIT ELECTORAL FRAUD YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED

[badmedicine]

I leave the judgment of your remark to others.

Very gracious of you. Don't let my remark that you totally misinterpreted my meaning hold you back now...

[nikster]

You know, the time to take them to court has passed. To do this now is just sour grapes. They lost the election big time; this action is just an insult to the people of Thailand. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted with the abuses of power that have been shown the last few years, and this is just another example.

The time to take them to court has NOT passed. There is 7 days after the election to lodge any complaints.

Is lodging a complaint with the courts an abuse of power??

Lodging complaints about electoral fraud is an essential part of democracy. This may be news to some of the boneheads around here, but canning people for cheating in elections is part of the democratic process.

That would make sense if we were in the USA, or anywhere in the west. On the ground in Thailand where all elections are rife with vote buying from all sides, and where laws are generally not enforced very much, a black and white position will only cause permanent chaos.

The thing is that by and large the will of the people is that the PT shall rule. On one hand, that's unforuntate. On the other, it's the result of a brilliant election campaign, combined with the utter uselessness, proven once again, of the opposition. I am against Thaksin but I couldn't bring myself to be for the democrats... the best choice in this election was "No".

IMO this legal threat to the PT might just be a strategic maneuver to gain advantage... Maybe a minister or two, maybe keeping T. outside (good luck)... In any case it seems it would be a good asset for any negotiations.

[rixalex]

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

Let me try and understand your position on this: is it that you don't think the PTP broke any laws, or is it that you accept the possibly they did, but because they won the election, it shouldn't be looked in to?

[rubl]

The time to take them to court has NOT passed. There is 7 days after the election to lodge any complaints.

Is lodging a complaint with the courts an abuse of power??

Lodging complaints about electoral fraud is an essential part of democracy. This may be news to some of the boneheads around here, but canning people for cheating in elections is part of the democratic process.

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

Asking the EC to look into a possible breach of Election Laws is very legal, more so than starting to protest and lobbying grenades. It has nothing to do with a 'huge mandate'. It's about applying law, adhering to rule of law. It's doesn't matter if the Americans are happy or not, but I would think they would be pleased the laws are followed.

The Pheu Thai might be dissolved, some MP disqualified, but more MP's will remain in a nw party setup already prepared. Ms. Yingluck will probably still be PM.

As for 'pathetic bad loser / dishonest cheat' if you said this while in Thailand k. Abhisit might take you to court for defamation. No need to worry though, he won't sue for billions, just for you to retract your defamation

Edited July 8, 2011 by rubl

[BlueSmurf]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet), how could they defend dissolving the party with such a mandate from the people? Parliament is the law, and the people have chosen a new parliament haven't they?

Any idiot can see it is a legitimate claim its just wether its good for the general outcome of things...Its not as though they hid the people who campaingned for them.

[animatic]

You know, the time to take them to court has passed. To do this now is just sour grapes. They lost the election big time; this action is just an insult to the people of Thailand. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted with the abuses of power that have been shown the last few years, and this is just another example.

The time to take them to court has NOT passed. There is 7 days after the election to lodge any complaints.

Is lodging a complaint with the courts an abuse of power??

Lodging complaints about electoral fraud is an essential part of democracy. This may be news to some of the boneheads around here, but canning people for cheating in elections is part of the democratic process.

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

Again, PTP MPs keep their seats.

The US will do nothing but watch and maybe comment. They will do nothing.

This is filing in the courts to use due process to find a answer to a legal question of fact. A 'huge mandate 'has nothing to do with a legal question of fact,

but if the answer to that question is PTP as a whole cheated,

then the leadership should take responsibility for their breaking the law

as laws stipulate.

They will just start a new umbrella party and vote in new PM with the MP's they got elected.

It seems about 80% of the screaming complaints about the Dems legal request

are not based on legal reality, but worst case grossly uninformed fears.

Edited July 8, 2011 by animatic

[CosmicSurfer]

Surprise,surprise!

The people have had their say, hopefully he courts will throw this out before it even gets off the ground.

Upholding anything like this would probably be the simple way to allow the military to do exactly what they said they won't on the basis that they would be intervening in a potential civil war.

Let the democratically elected government to get on with their job, if they fail the people will have an opportunity to go to the polls again in the future.

Nothing Democratic about an election with Rampant Vote Buying.

CS

Where is this rampant vote buying except in your head? The result of this election is 99% because of a majority not liking to be told they are stupid. It was a majority vote against exactly what the Democrat party try to do now. If they had said this BEFORE election day, they would have gotten even fewer votes.

Q > Why is banging your Head against a wall, like talking to a Buffalo in Thailand ???

A > Because Neither have any understanding of facts and issues or the capacity to analyze them when they kick them in the Ass, or the Head.

CS

[clausewitz]

Anyway at least Newin of the Bhumjai party had nothing to do with the Democrats gaining power in 2008. Even if he is and was a banned politician.

He had nothing to do with Bhumjaitthai right?

I mean the Democrats are always known to be fair and honest so we can be sure of that.

[rubl]

I leave the judgment of your remark to others.

Very gracious of you. Don't let my remark that you totally misinterpreted my meaning hold you back now...

After all I said it wouldn't be fair, my dear chap

[SeanMoran]

Long bow to draw when giving out free noodles is classified as electoral fraud by vote-buying. Free roast-duck might qualify, but if someone offered me a cup of noodles, I'd probably vote for the other side. Yuck!

[animatic]

How in the world could an EC allow a party to run that is being funded, and manipulated, advised by the same factions that were behind the rioting, looting and burning 13 months ago(convicted fugitive regardless of whether the court was kangaroo or not). Maybe someone there got large deposits in a bank account.

Seems a bit late to contest the legitimacy.

One can wonder at their sudden trip to Europe in the 2 weeks before the election....

Checking into Swiss banking functions perhaps, or just a clandestine meeting?

The timing and the location definitely sends up flags.

[Crushdepth]

You know, the time to take them to court has passed. To do this now is just sour grapes. They lost the election big time; this action is just an insult to the people of Thailand. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted with the abuses of power that have been shown the last few years, and this is just another example.

The time to take them to court has NOT passed. There is 7 days after the election to lodge any complaints.

Is lodging a complaint with the courts an abuse of power??

Lodging complaints about electoral fraud is an essential part of democracy. This may be news to some of the boneheads around here, but canning people for cheating in elections is part of the democratic process.

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

I agree its predictable. And if they're wrong they will FAIL. The courts are part of the democratic process in action. What you totally fail to grok is that IF YOU COMMIT ELECTORAL FRAUD YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED, even if you "win". It's like winning a gold medal but testing positive for steroids. To keep that gold medal you have win AND not get caught cheating.

I am shocked at how man otherwise intelligent people struggle with this simple concept.

[kikoman]

The country should honor the rule of law, which is the law of the land,the law is supposed to hold a country together.

If one of the laws has been broken, then the law-breakers must be punished.

Thaksin broke the law and was found guilty and was banned from Thailand's political area.

His sister ran for office on her own platform, and not as her brother's puppet.

But now it is clear that her brother, is the power behind the election.

The Northwestern MPs should not be going to the Middle East to ask for cabinet seats from Thaksin,

They make a mockery out of the election process.

Yingluck won the election and is the person that was legally elected to govern Thailand.

If Thaksin is going to govern Thailand through his sister,

that is not what was the legitimate results of the election.

All should respect the law of the land including Thaksin,

Let Yingluck do her elected duties!

Cheers;

Edited July 8, 2011 by kikoman

[jdinasia]

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

Hmmmmmm

Let's see .... Americans won't care about a party that violates electoral law (any party) being disbanded. America certainly won't care about a party that got less than 50% of the vote being knocked about for violating election laws. Enforcing electoral law isn't "cheating". I doubt Abhisit made this call since he stepped down from party leadership ....

I don't know that these charges will stick BUT Thaksin himself can be charged and sentenced in criminal court for his interference.

IF PTP gets knocked down for this the next Thaksin proxy party should still have enough votes in Parliament to stay in office and if they don't like the margin they can call early elections.

[badmedicine]

Can anyone say that PTP would have gotten this landside without Thaksins direct involvement? It doesn't seem in anyway probable or even possibly.

But no one except the Dems are even attempting to say this, and even they are changing their story. Look, before the election, Abhisit made it clear - and was right to, IMHO, that this was a choice between him and Thaksin. Even PT made it obvious — 'Thaksin thinks, PT does' — for the sake of appearances a few pretended YL was not a Thaksin proxy, but COME ON, NOBODY BELIEVES THIS — neither Dem nor Red shirt nor swing voter.

ie., everyone knew what was at stake, and the result is clear.

Now I wish things had turned out otherwise. I wish the electorate had said a firm NO to bullies, intimidation, and what I basically see as nothing other than a dictator in the making, but THEY DIDN'T.

Trying to do anything about this by pretending that the courts are independent and objective and non-partisan won't convince anyone from Bangkok to Khon Kaen. Quite the opposite in fact, it will only entrench the belief that there is a conspiracy to rob the electorate of their voice.

That's why I said a few posts up that if the Dems want to turn this around, they need to start figuring out WHY are people still voting for TS — clearly a man self-obsessed and with no semblance of tolerance for real democracy — rather than AW — an intelligent, reasonable, compromising, law-abiding sort, the very model of what we should want our MPs and PMs to be like. Now, why did they vote for TS and not AW? That's the question the dems need to address. All this attempt to pretend the judicial process is some sort of non-partisan implementation of electoral law is a sham and EVERY THAI KNOWS IT. Thus, it is doomed to do nothing other than exacerbate the situation (a view some people round here call 'appeasement' DUH!!).

[animatic]

Just a thought - isn't Thaksin's 5 years nearly up? Could this be why the election was called early?

Was it only yesterday that I posted "How long before somebody lodges a complaint against Thaksin's blatant participation?" (or something to that effect)? They call people who ignore court rulings "scoff-laws" and their treatment is often quite harsh. I knew a young lad who continued to drive without a licence - the first offence got him a stiff fine, the others 6 months in the pokey. I don't know if Thai electoral law has such provisions, but I live in hope.

I think I mentioned the apparent illegally of Thaksin's participation in PTP the night of the election. I was surprised there wasn't much discussion about it then. So this new move doesn't surprise me at all.

His 5 years for the TRT election violations yes,

but he is convicted of a crime and so is denied voting and position holding rights.

Another reason why he needs lil sister to bull through amnesty for 'all political crimes'

So they can argue an convictions were political in nature.

[KeyserSoze01]

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

Hmmmmmm

Let's see .... Americans won't care about a party that violates electoral law (any party) being disbanded. America certainly won't care about a party that got less than 50% of the vote being knocked about for violating election laws. Enforcing electoral law isn't "cheating". I doubt Abhisit made this call since he stepped down from party leadership ....

I don't know that these charges will stick BUT Thaksin himself can be charged and sentenced in criminal court for his interference.

IF PTP gets knocked down for this the next Thaksin proxy party should still have enough votes in Parliament to stay in office and if they don't like the margin they can call early elections.

Pfft, who cares what the Americans think anyway. They have their own problems.

[animatic]

If Newin Chidchob was involved in election campaigning for the Democrats, I'm sure PTP would have lodged a complaint by now.

Not involved in campaining for the Democrats but for Bumjaithai. We hear nothing about it because he "owns" the Buriram Province including many "Officials" , that is an open secret in the Isaan.

It didn't do them much good, did it?

But, if it is a problem for someone, they're more than welcome to lodge a complaint.

The Dems couldn't put this issue up in the past because of Newin being their strongest ally. The PPP/PTP/TRT/whatever is next couldn't do it because he was with them first. Now that it looks as if BJT will be dissolved the Dems can go straight at Thaksin using this tactic.

Spot on. It's a free field to shoot the rotting ducks.

[CosmicSurfer]

You know, the time to take them to court has passed. To do this now is just sour grapes. They lost the election big time; this action is just an insult to the people of Thailand. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted with the abuses of power that have been shown the last few years, and this is just another example.

Lodging complaints about electoral fraud is an essential part of democracy. This may be news to some of the boneheads around here, but canning people for cheating in elections is part of the democratic process.

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

I agree its predictable. And if they're wrong they will FAIL. The courts are part of the democratic process in action. What you totally fail to grok is that IF YOU COMMIT ELECTORAL FRAUD YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED, even if you "win". It's like winning a gold medal but testing positive for steroids. To keep that gold medal you have win AND not get caught cheating.

I am shocked at how man otherwise intelligent people struggle with this simple concept.

Like I've been Saying.... Buffaloes.

CS

[whybother]

Anyone else have a sense of deja vu?

Gotta wonder why they bother to hold elections at all... A strange understanding of democracy...

Isn't it terrible when they use the courts to see if something is legal or not.

[badmedicine]

@SeanMoran

There was a rumor you were dead. Glad to see its not so...

[geriatrickid]

It appears that some people have had a change of hearts. In another thread the very same people defending the move by the Democrats to dispute the decision of a majority of the Thai electorate were up in arms over some people's right to bring a civil suit when false allegations were made.

Yes, the Democrats can bring any action they can substantiate. It is part of the civil process of the peaceful resolution of disputes. it is up to an independent judiciary to decide the merits of the case. Is the judiciary independent enough to rule in an unbiased manner? However, it is obvious to anyone that understands, that the electorate spoke and that the Democrats are engaged in a last gasp to hold onto power. The Democrats have no mandate to govern. The party was repudiated at the polls. All that this does is further the perception of the voters that abandoned the Democrats ,that the Democrats will not respect the election results.

Until the decision is rendered, the PTP has a legal mandate to rule. If the PTP is politically savy they will respond head on to the harassment of the Democrats and will let loose a volley of countersuits and start doing everything legally possible to make the Democrats understand that. the people have spoken. In the meantime, the Democrats have undermined the stability of the nation and struck a blow against the nation. If people did not understand why there are such heated passions from PTP supporters, perhaps they will get it now. The Democrats are anti democratic and sore losers.

Edited July 8, 2011 by geriatrickid

[kropotkin]

I agree its predictable. And if they're wrong they will FAIL. The courts are part of the democratic process in action. What you totally fail to grok is that IF YOU COMMIT ELECTORAL FRAUD YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED, even if you "win". It's like winning a gold medal but testing positive for steroids. To keep that gold medal you have win AND not get caught cheating.

I am shocked at how man otherwise intelligent people struggle with this simple concept.

And who does the disqualifying? The FIFA? euhhhhhh

[jdinasia]

The Dems couldn't put this issue up in the past because of Newin being their strongest ally. The PPP/PTP/TRT/whatever is next couldn't do it because he was with them first. Now that it looks as if BJT will be dissolved the Dems can go straight at Thaksin using this tactic.

Spot on. It's a free field to shoot the rotting ducks.

And there are a few others leading factions of PTP too ...... oh well

I would not be unhappy if ALL the dinosaurs fell by the wayside in this term ......

[SeanMoran]

It has been the same since a long time before Abbhisit even called the election. Ironic to be sitting here in Rayong and write this, because people I know in Rayong who work in Mapthaput went with the yellows, and so did my military friends down in Sattahip, but they're still a minority of roughly 1:2 as the polls would appear to have shown.

Everyone I know in Thailand who doesn't work for the military or in Maptaphut have been waiting a very long time for this last election, and not to get Thaksin back, but to get Abhisit out. It would be nice if Thailand could just get back to business as usual, because most people have been very unhappy since September 19, 2006. Not necessarily because they miss Thaksin, but because they miss democracy.

[phupaman]

Hi All.

This is a typical thread where everyone who is even remotly Red is seen to attack

the Dems. Yes we know they won a landslide at the polls, But that does not overule the law, You all know how much respect Thaksin has for the Law.

Abhisit in his role as leader of the opposition has a duty to expose anything that is remotely suspect in the behaviour of the Gov, And Thaksin's involvment in the present Gov is illegal..Full Stop,, And just because they won the election.Should not be ignored.

phupaman.

[badmedicine]

Everyone I know in Thailand who doesn't work for the military or in Maptaphut have been waiting a very long time for this last election, and not to get Thaksin back, but to get Abhisit out.

I've heard the same story in BKK too. People who originally supported the coup voted for Thaksin last month because they'd lost faith in AW.

Conclusion: Dems need to stop focussing on TS and start repairing their own house.