Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[lifeincnx]

Even so, more people voted for PT than voted for the Dems. A mandate from the people should mean something to people calling themselves democrats. Hanging on to power by means of the courts will not bring stability to the country. How can they not see that this move will bring more problems than it solves? In fact, what problem will it solve?

If PT and their supporters realise that they have a majority, and a mandate, but are not allowed to have power by democratic means, that does not mean that they will just say "oh ok then, fair enough, you run the country...sorry!"

Really really stupid idea. If you don't like the party that's been voted in, fair enough. Let them rule, show themselves for what they are, then the next election, you campaign against them. If you're right, and they're not popular, you'll win.

If you don't agree with how they rule, but they still have a majority, you lose.

Not all majority parties/governments are what we think they should be. That's just tough. The alternatives are worse. You get a large portion of your population who see no point in the democratic process and resort to other means to get what they think they deserve.

The result is a bloody mess.

Whatever 'side' you're on, things like this never make things better.

Well worth repeating! The Democrat Party is proving it is anything but by this shoddy maneuver.

[geovalin]

New name of the Democrat Party: ไทย เกลียดชัง ไทย "Thais hate Thais"

Edited July 8, 2011 by geovalin

[paulrobertlane]

What the Democrats should have done is stood over the voters and handed a thousand baht to everyone that voted Democrat.

The people would have voted. And the Democrats would have been democratically elected.

I know it's against the law, but that doesn't matter in Thailand, does it?

The Dems were paying 500 Baht in Sattahip - obviously 500 too little.

Honestly the whole vote buying issue is a complete misnomer. The girl whop works in my wifes shop was given 500 to vote for number 10 (Dems) but voted for number 6 anyway. However much people pay they cant look over peoples shoulders when they actually cast the vote. Whilst I dont agree withg her taking the money when i told her so she just said the people paying are "stupid" and why not take the money? Couldnt really argue with her.

With regards to the topic, i tend to agree if they have broken the law they should be investigated. However the result, another unelected and minority party in government is too high a price to pay twice running. Sometimes its best to just go with the flow and try and win by legitimate means next time around.

[hanuman2543]

It was only a question of time before Abhisit the "gentleman" cries foul and rely on the judicial system to change a defeat into??

[whybother]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

[rich54321]

not long before tanks on the street again!!!!

[Wallaby]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Exactly.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The point is, that if PTP has committed a dissolvable infraction, then it is totally legitimate to dissolve them,

I personally think this "dissolving a party" BS is counter-productive, I haven't heard of this as a punishment in any other country. It's obviously easy enough to start a new party and everyone knows its just old wine into new wineskins. And it seems these laws are easily abused for purposes of manipulating politics. Seems similar to the punishment for policemen convicted of crimes, "re-assigning to an inactive post", basically a public shaming and that's it!

If specific people do specific illegal acts, then prosecute them as individuals and **put them in jail**. And if the system here is too corrupt for that to happen, there's no other effective solution, just accept the fact that from a legal POV your country's fubar live with it.

In the meantime, the MPs that weren't involved (i.e. didn't get caught) doing anything wrong shouldn't be interfered with in carrying out the obvious intentions of the population that voted them in!

In the m

[billd766]

Anyone else have a sense of deja vu?

I am not sure but I think I have been there before.

[hanuman1]

It was only a question of time before Abhisit the "gentleman" cries foul and rely on the judicial system to change a defeat into??

Don't know what Abhisit has got to do with this. He probably wouldn't touch the PM's job again with a barge pole.

Nice username, though.

[whybother]

IF the PTP is banned for breaking election laws, it doesn't mean that they will lose government.

The party executives will be banned from politics. By-elections will be held for any electorates where a banned MP was elected.

The reason that PPP (or rather PTP after PPP was banned) lost government is because they lost the support of their coalition partners, and they could no longer get the support of a majority of MPs to elect a new PM.

I don't think that Yingluck is a party executive, so she wouldn't be banned, and she would continue to be PM. PTP would also most likely win any required by-elections.

But, the bottom line is, just because a lot of people (not even the majority) voted for you, does not give you carte blanche to break the law.

[whybother]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Exactly.

Not even close to "Exactly".

[DumFarang]

...and here we go...aaaaagain.

[wolf5370]

Perhaps all the Thaksin haters and by implication Democrat supporters will now wake up and realize the true nature of the people they support.

No-one who support the current government support democracy.

The people in as free and fair election as you are ever going to have in Thailand have decided and they've come out in their millions to defeat the current administration.

This current Democratic Party move (Democratic? - what a joke) opens the door for a return to seeing tanks on the streets of Bangkok yet again.

I dont suppose it will be long.

Mmmm why does anyone that critisises the Red or any associated party have to be Thaksin haters??? Its peruile trash like that which casues every discussion here to fall into meaningless reguritation of recycled pamphlet propoganda - please use your own intelligence and arguements rather than jumping on the "red under the bed" type of hysterior.

"No-one who support the current government support democracy." erm do you switch sides in alternative sentences??? You DO realise that the current government is not a Democrat one??? Or was that a copy and Paste from earlier drivel?

I would hope that Thailand can muster the ability to include all voters next time and not, through incompetance and silly rules, miss out a million votes (not saying the result would be any diffwerent - just that the latest vote can hardly be called 'the most free and fair as you are ever going to have'[sic].

It is interesting to mention tanks on streets with relation to the Democrats to - I am sure they will deny that one - the coup was the last time tanks rolled through the streets and the Democrats were not in power at that point - and the Army did what the amry does - you don't think the Democrat party ordered it, surely. Or perhaps you mean the soldiers on the streets during the Bangkok riots - I wonder which country would not in such a scenario - I guaratee you Thaksin would have if it had happened to him - he certainly did order flowers to be thrown in the South.

I too believe this could be a silly move by the Democrats, but I don't think it justifies a sillier post in response. Oh, and before you accuse me of being a Thaksin hater, I am not - I have argued before in his defense (when equally silly posts were made) and have stated severalo times that many of the ideals of the Red's (though not necessarily the PTP - and certainly not all their policies) are good ideas. Political debate should be just that, a debate, not babies throwing dumbies at each other.

[jdinasia]

A predictable and legitimate complaint.

The majority of PTP MPs will not be lost of course.

Just parts of the umbrella supporting them.

But the leadership that hadn't pre-resigned, prior to the election to avoid being ousted in the event of this logical filing, will all go bye bye.ANd the control mechanism will be weakened, and that is the likely aim.

I have little doubt that PTP would do EXACTLY the same to them if they thought it would bring advantage.

PTP will of course do the same. BJT is probably already a write-off as well.

The result of this IF it does happen (and with "Thaksin thinks, PTP does" .... ) means knocking out Yingluck for 5 years. The question becomes .. is this actually a good thing? Probably not.

Removing the street politics, red shirt leaders would be a good thing but knocking out the party wouldn't imho. The problem is ... if you are going to have "rule of law" you simply have to follow the rules. In this case it would seem that it does fall on the entire PTP leadership.

Those that will criticize the move as looking "undemocratic" need to look at the fact that any legitimate party should not be listening to (actively) a convicted felon that is a fugitive from the law. (or in the case of BJT -- a banned politician)

The current PTP coalition will have enough power to call for new elections OR put someone else in as PM with whatever name TRT/PPP/PTP uses next. (They could have done the same in 2008 had they actually acted .....)

This could just be a ploy to push Thaksin out and then let the issue drop, but I doubt it.

On a side note --- fighting corruption in Thailand needs to start at the top with real sentences that hurt .... and work its way down to the street level police etc ....

[tlansford]

If the democrats were interested in reconciliation for Thailand, then they would not have filed this.

[noahvail]

IF the PTP is banned for breaking election laws, it doesn't mean that they will lose government.

The party executives will be banned from politics. By-elections will be held for any electorates where a banned MP was elected.

The reason that PPP (or rather PTP after PPP was banned) lost government is because they lost the support of their coalition partners, and they could no longer get the support of a majority of MPs to elect a new PM.

I don't think that Yingluck is a party executive, so she wouldn't be banned, and she would continue to be PM. PTP would also most likely win any required by-elections.

But, the bottom line is, just because a lot of people (not even the majority) voted for you, does not give you carte blanche to break the law.

Well said. And no, Yingluck is not a party executive, and it would seem that she will become the new PM - depending on how the EC rules on her "vote buying" by serving food at a rally, which is specifically noted as being a "vote-buying" activity.

[mitrapaap]

Perhaps all the Thaksin haters and by implication Democrat supporters will now wake up and realize the true nature of the people they support.

No-one who support the current government support democracy.

The people in as free and fair election as you are ever going to have in Thailand have decided and they've come out in their millions to defeat the current administration.

This current Democratic Party move (Democratic? - what a joke) opens the door for a return to seeing tanks on the streets of Bangkok yet again.

I dont suppose it will be long.

While I agree that the democrat's move is certainly not improving the situation, I also remember that even people within Phuea Thai have warned Taksin of interferring too much exactly out of fear that what is happening now will happen. So they were well aware of it and so was Thaksin. No wonder it happens now, and quite frankly, wouldn't Phuea Thai do exactly the same if the roles were reversed? Again, it most likely does not help the country unless it prevents something normal people like us can't see from happening. But how can Phuea Thai claim that banned politicians were not involved after having proclaimed "Thaksin thinks, Phue Thai acts"? It was kind like digging their own grave wasn't it? So the final question remains, how would the voting have come out if Thaksing had kept his mouth shut?

[wolf5370]

It was only a question of time before Abhisit the "gentleman" cries foul and rely on the judicial system to change a defeat into??

I severely doubt K. Abhisit has anything to do with it - otherwise it was a silly move on his party to quit as leader.

[SomTumTiger]

And to think this party calls itself "Democrat." They have absolutely no grasp of the term.

They lost, Puea Thai won with a true voting mandate. Move on.

So if I steal your car, you will accept it, because I was elected properly? If I am your elected mayor, and I kill your grandmother, its ok because I was elected? The tyranny of the majority - I see.

[citizen33]

Surely this is a double edged sword. It will strengthen te resolve of those who believe that the only way back to legality is to restore the 1997 Constitution (pending revision), roll back the changes to the judiciary introduced by the coup leaders, and re-impose the rule of law on those who try to subvert the will of the electorate.

[bifftastic]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

Even more dangerous. It won't make them go away.

[whybother]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

Even more dangerous. It won't make them go away.

Maybe they need to be put in jail, just to make sure they stay out of politics ... as the law states that they must do.

[scorecard]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet), how could they defend dissolving the party with such a mandate from the people? Parliament is the law, and the people have chosen a new parliament haven't they?

Ever heard of due process of law / respect for the due process of law.

And on top of that PT and the red shirts say they don't want double standards, and they want (demand) quality democrcay and equal justice / respect for justice.

So which way do you want it?

[makescents]

So, here they go again? Can't win at the ballot box, let's get the winning party banned in the courts? Do they have an aversion to being in opposition?

If they're successful, what will they say to the Thai people? "We know you didn't vote for us, but we didn't like the results of the election, so we changed it?"

Democrats? In name only!

Here here.

Bloody Dems don't give up do they?

They don't realize that their populist policies aren't as popular as the others.

[bapak]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

Precisely.. and would Pheu Thai have had the support it had if Taksin was not in the picture?

[bifftastic]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

Even more dangerous. It won't make them go away.

Maybe they need to be put in jail, just to make sure they stay out of politics ... as the law states that they must do.

Assuming, dangerous I know, that the goal is a more stable political system, I would suggest that putting your political rivals in jail is, perhaps, not the best way to proceed?

Unless, of course, due to the shifting balance of power in the world, the Thai 'establishment' is in favour of copying the Chinese model of 'democracy'?

[animatic]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

They also can not VOTE, finance a party, nor dictate the members on partylists, and who is to be proposed as PM.

I will repeat, having an mandate or winning a majority in an election does NOT absolve a party from responsibility for crimes committed in getting elected.

Edited July 8, 2011 by animatic

[mitrapaap]

And to think this party calls itself "Democrat." They have absolutely no grasp of the term.

They lost, Puea Thai won with a true voting mandate. Move on.

So if I steal your car, you will accept it, because I was elected properly? If I am your elected mayor, and I kill your grandmother, its ok because I was elected? The tyranny of the majority - I see.

Quite frankly, I think they should Phuea Thai let govern the country. The first to suffer from their silly policies are the poor. It's time the poor and the reds get a real feel of what Phuea Thai is, otherwise they will never realize the truth. The workers are already calling for the 300 Baht wage raise, the reds are already calling for seats in Parliament and ministeries. Phuea Thai fed them with promises, now they are hungry and want the meat to be delivered. Raise the wages and let smaller factories go bankrupt so those workers will get jobless and end up having no income at all, let larger factories lay off people to cope with the increased cost and let those who remain work harder. Give tablets to all students so they don't do anything more than sitting around with their dammed tablets playing games, or eventually throwing them in a corner becase the parents can't afford the internet connection. Why get them banned and be the bad guy again? Let Phuea Thai govern and fail.

[CosmicSurfer]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet), how could they defend dissolving the party with such a mandate from the people? Parliament is the law, and the people have chosen a new parliament haven't they?

Parliament makes Law... it Is NOT "THE LAW"...

The law is "The Law"... and EVERYONE Must be accountable!

CS