DTAC Is An Alien Company: Thai Commerce Minister

[Thai at Heart]

I have a feeling that if Norway simply allowed CP into the Norwegian fishing industry, this would all go away.

[Loaded]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

If you dislike and distrust the place so much why don't you go back home.

This " why don't you go back home" is so old and worn out! please come up with something better, more original

The thing is this IS home for many people of non Thai descent.

All people are asking for is equality and a little respect so we are allowed to contribute and be recognized for our contribution to society.

You wouldn't call an African in America a 'nigger' and tell him or her to get back on the banana boat and go home If he or she complained about their (repeated) negative experiences in the USA for example would you? I'd imagine if you heard someone talk like that you'd be quite shocked and embarrassed, yet repeatedly on this forum whenever people comment about their bad experiences their complaints and comments are met with a sanitized version of what essentially amounts to something akin to "<deleted> off back home nigger".

Apologies for any offense caused. Just trying to make a point.

If you dislike the place so much, why don't you go back home?

[gbswales]

I do not understand how Thailand continues to prevent foreign ownership of companies in the face of globalisation. Sooner or later a large foreign investor will say enough is enough and just pull the plug. Thailand, like the UK and many other countries, needs foreign investment and restrictive practices are not going to achieve this.

[egg]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

it ain't raining here ,,, bloody Thaksin again

[Tatsujin]

The simple answer is that there is no sure way of being 100% legal in Thailand, to comply with the law. The law can be twisted and manipulated in many ways. I would say its a tough place for foreigners to do business, being sure they won't loose their investment.

Never a truer word written . . .

[kevinc]

...........And who exactly owns AIS?...... Or Hutch? (I mean really).. c'mon.......... ha ha

Edited July 11, 2011 by metisdead
Font reset, please use default forum font when posting.

[steveromagnino]

I do not understand how Thailand continues to prevent foreign ownership of companies in the face of globalisation. Sooner or later a large foreign investor will say enough is enough and just pull the plug. Thailand, like the UK and many other countries, needs foreign investment and restrictive practices are not going to achieve this.

Which foreign investor do you think that will be?

Even if DTAC leaves, do you think Ford, Toyota, etc will follow?

No....it's easiest to keep things as they run now. Various protected industries to keep various people happy (most represented in the government by their proxies); leave things open where they were deregulated previously (condo 49%; retail; hospitality); open up where the players are too disjointed to group together to block together or where the industries were always going to be deregulated (finance)...and keep the foreigners out of the headline areas publically (e.g. rice farming, professions, healthcare, telecoms, satellite, 'strategic industry') while privately endorsing and even owning companies doing exactly that.

At the end of the day, as long as the voters who are mostly either rice farmers or factory workers feel like the country is running ok, it doesn't matter too much locally if a few foreign companies don't open here.

After all who can ever tell how profitable things would have been if we hadn't say, paid off the IMF early and borrowed; or hadn't signed the ill thought out FTA with China...or ....or or...and so on. The what if, sadly, has zero public relations value when you cannot easily point out well you lot would all be millionaires if we didn't do that 2 years ago.....most people cannot even remember what Thaksin or Samak or whoever were doing 2 years ago. (Well, Samak I think I remember...he was about the most active he'd been in politics since prior to being Bangkok Governor...simply because he was dead). In the case of FDI...Thailand has no issue with attracting it, and not too much issue with companies lining up to do business here. After all the alternatives are usually Vietnam, China, Philippines, and sometimes Malaysia, Indonesia, India. Not many say ooooh let's open in Norway...or Thailand.

All the wishful thinking about anti foreigner legislation...the local players like Tesco Lotus know the field they are playing in and do the right things to publically appear all nice, while attempting to lobby (probably) behind the scenes. Any big firm (well other than people like Temasek) does due diligence in a new market and they know that each country's rules are different.

Lest anyone think you cannot be like this in this day and age...plenty of countries don't allow foreign ownership of a whole bunch of things for a variety of issues...countries like USA, Singapore, Japan included. And globalisation right now is not exactly looking so rosy. Look at the WTO and the stall out that's occurred there.

DTAC's concern is that AIS went under the spotlight for many of the same things that AFAIK DTAC also has in their ownership structure. When they decided (foolishly) to take on TRUE they they could expect that it might backfire and DTAC are a bit of a 'look meea noi' now in the most recent government.

A few tongues and a few reacharounds and any company can get something out of most of these Thai governments unless they are up against an incumbent in the cabinet.

Edited July 11, 2011 by steveromagnino

[evanson]

Xenophobia from THE DEMOCRATS.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

In contrast, I cannot find any anti-foreign sentiment at PTP, or at least not more than what alreadt exists among the civil service and the outgoing government.

Well to be fair we haven't yet seen any major policy announcements from PT so it's a bit early.

We can look at TRT who instigated the 25% foreign ownership restriction on telcos which basically hamstrung DTAC and Orange/Truemove who at that time were both saddled with substantial debt and were operating on the more capital intensive GSM bands compared to AIS; then moved it to 49% but that was only so the then PM could flog 96% of AIS to the Singaporeans, also using nominees (so it appeared 49%, and in fact IIRC the legal structure of the deal for AIS was similarly structured as DTAC; so they are roughly the 'same animal').

Same TRT government also were the ones enforcing the rules about foreign ownership in Phuket and removing the usual Thai company with nominees loophole, after the major land deals had gone through, and they needed a bit of a 'kick the foreigners in the face' nationalist drive as the government started to look wobbly; IIRC was around late 2005.

And most of the recommended steps needed to deregulate the Thai economy such as restrictions on ownership, blocked/protected industries, trade barriers...they remain to this day, with the only substantial efforts to open the Thai economy in 1998-2000 period.

It was called Thai Rak Thai for a reason, and much of the policy position was based on showing how Thais would look after Thais....healthcare, government support...anti retailer legislation hamstringings the major by that time foreign owned hypermarkets expanding into the Kingdom by instigating quite severe restrictions on where a hyper market could open which was supposedly to protect Thai mom and pops.

Of course, most people in the retail and commercial real estate sectors know that it was actually to open a runway for the expansion of.....7:11. Which have taken many Thai mom and pops to the cleaners, literally. (look how clean a 7:11 is compared to some mom and pops).

BTW the same people own 7:11 also pretty much own TrueMove. And were represented in TRT by cabinet member Pitak Intarawitayanunt and also Wattana Muangsuk.

HI Steve.

Nice to see you posting with your usual informed accuracy and long memory.

That was the post coup xenophobic (and shooting in the foot - ask any Thai landowner here) crap instigated by the Military fronted by Suthep. NOT Taksin.

[steveromagnino]

That was the post coup xenophobic (and shooting in the foot - ask any Thai landowner here) crap instigated by the Military fronted by Suthep. NOT Taksin.

So just to clarify....

May 25th 2006 - New property law may signal end of a property boom using nominees in resort markets. The government issues guidelines to prevent the illegal use of companies by foreigners to own land. It establishes procedures for land officials to follow when dealing with an acquisition of land by a corporate entity with foreign shareholders or directors. The stated objective is to prevent avoidance of the law. The new regulation (translation) went in to effect on May 25 2006 and is actually an enforcement of Thailand's existing laws. The Land Department stated that new regulations will also affect companies that were set up previously.

Reference

http://www.thailandlawonline.com/article-blog/property-law-new-property-law-in-thailand.html

July 2006 - Land ownership on Samui is to be scrutinized following complaints of encroachment onto forest reserve land and other illegal ownership, including accusations of ownership by foreigners shortly thereafter Samui 'Bandidos gang' busted. Thai police on Tuesday arrested three members of the Bandidos, an international motorcycle gang allegedly engaged in Mafia-type activities, such as the drug trade and money laundering, and accuses them of buying up land illegally

Refer cut and paste job from prominent Thai language newspaper: translated excerpts below:

"Land scandal on Samui needs study

Prachachart Turakij editorial ....Samui is back in the news, but for a different reason. Two weeks ago, Surat Thani provincial authorities began looking into possible encroachment onto forest reserve land and other illegal ownership. ...Caretaker Natural Resources and Environment Minister Yongyuth Tiyapairat flew to the island with investigators. He said there was evidence that several plots of land around Khao Dang and Khao Duangnok might have been obtained illegally for sale to foreigners. ....Meanwhile, another investigation was launched by Pien Yongnu, head of the Bangkok Metropolitan Waterworks Labour Union, who claimed that leading members of the ruling Thai Rak Thai party had bought large parcels of land from local villagers and later obtained title deeds.

...Our own investigations reveal that foreign companies are involved in the current land development boom on Samui. Big advertisements for property projects have appeared in Thai and foreign media to draw foreign buyers....Some of these projects are operated by foreigners who use Thai proxies to set up companies here. With a lot of money at their disposal, these foreign property developers buy land along the beaches and on the hills....We urge caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to look into this matter and take action against anyone found to have violated the law."

21st July 2006 - Detail sought on sources of foreign funds. clarified, is aimed at guarding against the problems of nominee shareholders and increasing transparency in the corporate registration process. Companies violating the rules would face dissolution.

http://thaisolicitor.com/?p=122

So in other words....When I speak, I often talk rubbish, but in this case, I am right. And I reason I know...is because we were directly affected as one of the larger Thai landlords on Phuket pre coup.

TOOK DTONG NA KRUB :jap:

Edited July 11, 2011 by steveromagnino

[jonclark]

The thing is this IS home for many people of non Thai descent.

All people are asking for is equality and a little respect so we are allowed to contribute and be recognized for our contribution to society.

You wouldn't call an African in America a 'nigger' and tell him or her to get back on the banana boat and go home If he or she complained about their (repeated) negative experiences in the USA for example would you? I'd imagine if you heard someone talk like that you'd be quite shocked and embarrassed, yet repeatedly on this forum whenever people comment about their bad experiences their complaints and comments are met with a sanitized version of what essentially amounts to something akin to "<deleted> off back home nigger".

Apologies for any offense caused. Just trying to make a point.

If you dislike the place so much, why don't you go back home?

Where did I say I dislike the place? Any how I am home, I commented on my dislike of comments like yours, boring, tedious, predictable and only worthy of the ignore button .

[OzMick]

Xenophobia from THE DEMOCRATS.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

In contrast, I cannot find any anti-foreign sentiment at PTP, or at least not more than what alreadt exists among the civil service and the outgoing government.

Well hardly, when the PM's puppet-master has 3 Foreign passports!

[rich54321]

Does this mean I don't need to buy that nice, new, shiny 4G phone as yet

4G Thailand does not even have 3G yet They are years behind in cellular phone tech.

or a very good ADSL service in the north - always down!!! usual excuse broken fibre optic cable - errrm!

[geezer553]

looks like sour grapes 2 me_i can remember when orange came to thailand put up all the masts etc etc,. thaksin "then kicked them out"--

prefer DTAC 2 - 1-2-CALL. what i cannot understand about 4G in thailand is they dont have 3G ?

[Colin Yai]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Well reading Animatics posts for the last 2 weeks or so, IMHO the guy is a pretty shrewd judge of Character !

[lifeincnx]

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Towards farang, the behavior of politics (PTPor Dems) in Thailand is the same: against.

At least something they agree on!! :lol:

Talk about a naive statement. It's a global economy pal and Taksin knows it well.

[wandrinstar]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Does anyone know what political grouping True are close to and why they could get deals through when others couldnt? That is also why DTAC find themsleves in this position. Then again commercially they had little choice, but lacked/lack political allies

All I know is that True is part of the CP group empire....which is owned by probably the richest family in Thailand... rich normally equates to influency so I wouldn't be surprised they have some powerful friends that could have made such a deal possible.

Interesting thing is that Abhisits father is a director at True...but I wouldnt; know if they are necessarily aligned with the Democrats, although it would make sense.

They must be an Alien Company,they give an exxelent service.

[JAG]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Calm down Kalbo, when the last trump sounds he will immediatley post blaming Thaksin, and then the rest of them will follow as ever.The Archangel announcing the day of judgement will probably be denounced as a newbie, and accused of listening to much to an Issan born girlfriend!

The lack of tolerance on this forum used to wind me up too, now I just find their ability to turn everything to fit their beliefs amusing.

[tweezer]

he is a caretaker minister who has no authority in this case

I love it! The number one thai defense argument! I did not break the law because you are not authorized to say I did.

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory post removed from view

[steveromagnino]

Wow, you're such a drama queen. I guess if tomorrow a water buffalo poops on your driveway it's also Thaksin's fault, just like the rain this afternoon and your grandmother's fart last night. I bet you also go to sleep at night wiping your feet with Thaksin's photo and then counting a hundred little Thaksins jumping over the fence until you fall asleep.

Actually, the funny thing was I dreaming I was walking home in the dark last night, and trod in some animal excrement, and said oh dear POO!

And then a sweet 40 year old feminine sweet northern voice piped in behind me and said "Poo mah laew jaaaoooo"

And I said "I like you, but your brother is I hear mark"

and she said "No you heard wrong, he is maew"

and I said "no you aren't understanding me, I think your brother is like a locksmith"

and she says, "how do you mean"

and I said "I think he talks about a lot of key"

and then she said, "no no that's nothing to do with me"

and I said, "well he said you are like his clone, and a little silly if i may say so"

and she said "well perhaps I am like him, but I am not sludge. And I am not sillyclone anywhere either. I am Poo"

and I said,"well if you are clone and also poo, then that probably means there is an awful lot of excrement in the things that you lot are talking about. So you can be good bui muck, but also explains the stench of your government as well"

OK so you kind of have to get a few things for this to be funny. In my case, the IQ of a 5 year old.

I may be childish....but I am also young and foolish. Hey, that's a great new political stance for someone. Big Jiew needs a bit of a revamp, maybe I can flog the idea of childishness to him.

Edited July 11, 2011 by steveromagnino

[Shotime]

I'll have to tell my TGF. She's trying to save Thailand.

[animatic]

DTAC is the only company that isn't currently pursuing 3g, For good reason, they've had the foresight to wait until the next generation, which will boost them ahead and rule the market.Investing in the current 3g system is a lost cause and money wasted by True and AIS.

DTAC is about to make checkmate, and people are out to stop them.

Like the original inception of cellphones in Thailand, second generation 3g/4g will be the new benchmark. With the money DTAC has saved by not investing in current 3g, no one will be able to touch their performance in the next generation 3/4g.

I've always had good and honest service from DTAC, and they never try to make it seem like your getting something that you aren't unlike True and AIS.

I'd recommend anyone to go with DTAC instead of either True or AIS any day of the week.

All of which makes it a good investment opportunity and way to even scores Thai style.

[Johpa]

CP is close to whoever they need to be. They were in with the Dems they were with TRT, they do monstrous amounts of business in China. They are the most influential Thai-Chinese company in the country, and one of the most important for anyone wanting access to the Chinese market, and what they say, goes particularly when it comes to keeping foreign companies of their turf.

CP became a Chinese company years ago. Yes, the family still lives in Bangkok and the company still makes some modest investments in Thailand. But for all intents and purposes they are a Chinese company and it is China where they re-invest their profits extracted from their Thai operations.

[animatic]

The header should have read "Moron" says DTAC is an alien company. The commerce minister is a moron after all by taking such a stance days before his tenure is over. If the moron would have had balls he would have charged DTAC many months ago. However he needs to please the ultra nationalists and he needs to please the Democrat Party sponsors TRUE (Charoen Pokhand). What the moron does is saddle the new government with a problem. Hopefully will the new minister of commerce find a way to charge the moron with conflict of interest charges.

Actually, I suspect the new government is absolutely delighted it has been raised so they can address it.

I suspect that once the win was known to be in the bag a call was made asking for this to be done,

no matter which functionary of this Cabinet Cycle fills the chair when the time comes.

Thanks for filling in more of the back ground Stevero,

as usual great reading. And better informed than 90% of those

making attempts at hectoring others into silence.

[somchaismith]

Bloody alien infiltrating pricks! Take this as notice on my account!

[DickFarang]

Every company quoted on the stock exchange is a potential "alien" company.

Companies are quoted on the stock exchange to attract money from the market and in a free market it is unavoidable that shares can be acquired by "aliens".

Some companies, such as German Bosch, choose NOT to be quoted on the stock exchange to keep their freedom.

In Europe the first stock exchanges emerged at the end of the Middle Ages: first Bruges and Antwerp, later on London, Amsterdam and Frankfurt.

Thailand has a SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand) but mentally they still live in their Middle Ages.

Edited July 11, 2011 by DickFarang

[nicky1982]

DTAC is the only company that isn't currently pursuing 3g, For good reason, they've had the foresight to wait until the next generation, which will boost them ahead and rule the market.Investing in the current 3g system is a lost cause and money wasted by True and AIS.

DTAC is about to make checkmate, and people are out to stop them.

Like the original inception of cellphones in Thailand, second generation 3g/4g will be the new benchmark. With the money DTAC has saved by not investing in current 3g, no one will be able to touch their performance in the next generation 3/4g.

I've always had good and honest service from DTAC, and they never try to make it seem like your getting something that you aren't unlike True and AIS.

I'd recommend anyone to go with DTAC instead of either True or AIS any day of the week.

All of which makes it a good investment opportunity and way to even scores Thai style.

Yea agree let AIS & True do there own thing.. Thais are always right untill they get it done Thai style then cry to mummy and daddy ...

[Northman061]

My small comment is simply this; The backward, closed shop anti foreign policy of property and land ownership simply has no place in a global economy.

[kutjebu]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

I think this man is brainwashed by the Democrates.

[DickFarang]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

A good piece of advice: Never invest more in Thailand than you can afford to lose.

Edited July 11, 2011 by DickFarang