DTAC Is An Alien Company: Thai Commerce Minister

[KKK]

All I can comment is GOOD, these people need to be taken down a step or two. I have been a customer of DTAC for at least 13 years and 90% of their staff are ignorant and/or rude. Their customer support is crap, and their secretaries act like Khum Yings believing that they can get away with the same crap as their managers, saying they are in meetings 24/7, and don't return calls. If it wasn't so inconvenient to change phone numbers, I would have dumped their service years ago.

Who wants the headache of doing business with a company staffed so badly?

I would totally disagree with you. DTAC has been nothing but perfect with me, an 11 year plus customer.

[rufanuf]

I do not understand how Thailand continues to prevent foreign ownership of companies in the face of globalisation. Sooner or later a large foreign investor will say enough is enough and just pull the plug. Thailand, like the UK and many other countries, needs foreign investment and restrictive practices are not going to achieve this.

If only that were true then policy might change. Thailand needs foriegn investment only as part of a big game that is played in their culture. When some stupid forigner comes here and invests in a poor Isaan girl or a multibillion dollarorganistion. Thai culute dictates that this was "good luck" and nothing more...and so whats recieved is seen simply as a gift. Thailand needs western capitlist values (foriegn investment).......not!!! And becuase of that they will continue to take advantage of the "opportunities" presented to them by us niave westerners in love with our capitalist ideas.

[jackr]

My small comment is simply this; The backward, closed shop anti foreign policy of property and land ownership simply has no place in a global economy.

I disagree, keep Thailand for Thai people it is all a lot of them will ever own, why allow others to come and buy your land, take over your country just to align with global economies.

That's fair enough, as long as it is made so that all Thais are not allowed to own land outside their beloved prathet.

DTAC Is An "Alien" Company

This is the sort of spiel that gets peoples' backs up. Bunch of kids.

Edited July 12, 2011 by jackr

[janverbeem]

TOT is currently running a limited 2.9G network. And, is in the process of investing fiber optic internet. ;-)

Does this mean I don't need to buy that nice, new, shiny 4G phone as yet

4G? No need to buy even a 3G because Thailand not have 3G but i rememeber DTAC wanted to be the first offering 3G networks

Every phone company in Thailand is currently running a limited 3G network and in the process of investing in a network,but that is exactly how far it will go for the next few years since there are no licenses yet.

Dtac has the 4G technology from which the other phone company's in Thailand only can have a wet dream.

[janverbeem]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

You should know that the owner of True,Charoen Pokphand , happens to be a very good friend from Thaksin.

[volk666]

"Thailand is for Thais" thinking might apply somewhere else but telco business is not for Thais, it's for CP/True and Shin. CAT and TOT are their to milk them for rent - fees, concessions, licenses etc.

3G, 4G - that's for Thais and that's why Thailand won't have either for another few years. Customers who can afford paying for it got their 3G already, in Bangkok, and since there's no money to be made in provinces it's arriving there a decade later than the rest of the world.

[Stevenredd]

Wow. What a lot of kerfuffle about nothing. It's called expropriation (its formal and "polite" name) and it's been going on in third world countries contending against the dominance of "first world" financial power since they discovered their own courts could have power and getting the people to the polls really works.

In the Western Hemisphere we've been contending with this for over a century. Large mining, energy, agribusiness and other concerns from the U.S. and elsewhere went into Central and South America to "invest" in local "infrastructure" and found their asses soundly trounced and tossed out through perfectly legal means. Then this little business of using the American intelligence arm to manipulate political situations back to the original situation (i.e., profitable for said businesses) got started and the whole thing turned into a big mess.

Look, the whole survival of Thailand in the face of 200+ years of colonial domination of Southeast Asia came at the very hands of those who can two-step faster than the arrogant schmucks who marched in thinking they could fleece the place and leave.

Inasmuch as there is all this hue and cry about how convoluted the Thai system is, and how crooked/broken/backward it is, one thing remains: It's still in the hands of the Thais. Sure there are big foreign conglomerates with pretty enormous footprints here, but through that thorny and arcane legal arrangement about ownership, Thailand is for Thais. As much as it irks me, an internationalist, that I can't live where I want without some pretty steep costs to absorb, I have to hand it to them. This is their country, no petty fiefdom of some multinational corporation, nor the summer home of a fat, European/American collection of third generation rich nobodies who inherited their lives from some faceless workaholic. Sorry, I kinda have to side with the "go home if you don't like it" crowd. Thailand has to work its own stuff through. They'll get there, in their own distinctly Thai way. And I'll giggle the whole time, cuz I love the place and watch loving lots of people froth over the "insanity" the "unfairness" and the unbelievable absurdity of it all.

For whatever it is, Thailand is a mirror of the whole world. It just has the b**ls to BE it, out, loud, open and on the table. Messed up or just sly like a fox, it's a large collection of fascinating human beings just trudging along like the rest of us, trying to get by.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Stevenredd

[Payboy]

You should know that the owner of True,Charoen Pokphand , happens to be a very good friend from Thaksin.

And, he has Abhisit's dad as director on the board of his company - between the two, he covers all eventualities.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Wow. What a lot of kerfuffle about nothing. It's called expropriation (its formal and "polite" name) and it's been going on in third world countries contending against the dominance of "first world" financial power since they discovered their own courts could have power and getting the people to the polls really works.

In the Western Hemisphere we've been contending with this for over a century. Large mining, energy, agribusiness and other concerns from the U.S. and elsewhere went into Central and South America to "invest" in local "infrastructure" and found their asses soundly trounced and tossed out through perfectly legal means. Then this little business of using the American intelligence arm to manipulate political situations back to the original situation (i.e., profitable for said businesses) got started and the whole thing turned into a big mess.

Look, the whole survival of Thailand in the face of 200+ years of colonial domination of Southeast Asia came at the very hands of those who can two-step faster than the arrogant schmucks who marched in thinking they could fleece the place and leave.

Inasmuch as there is all this hue and cry about how convoluted the Thai system is, and how crooked/broken/backward it is, one thing remains: It's still in the hands of the Thais. Sure there are big foreign conglomerates with pretty enormous footprints here, but through that thorny and arcane legal arrangement about ownership, Thailand is for Thais. As much as it irks me, an internationalist, that I can't live where I want without some pretty steep costs to absorb, I have to hand it to them. This is their country, no petty fiefdom of some multinational corporation, nor the summer home of a fat, European/American collection of third generation rich nobodies who inherited their lives from some faceless workaholic. Sorry, I kinda have to side with the "go home if you don't like it" crowd. Thailand has to work its own stuff through. They'll get there, in their own distinctly Thai way. And I'll giggle the whole time, cuz I love the place and watch loving lots of people froth over the "insanity" the "unfairness" and the unbelievable absurdity of it all.

For whatever it is, Thailand is a mirror of the whole world. It just has the b**ls to BE it, out, loud, open and on the table. Messed up or just sly like a fox, it's a large collection of fascinating human beings just trudging along like the rest of us, trying to get by.

"For whatever it is, Thailand is a mirror of the whole world. It just has the b**ls to BE it, out, loud, open and on the table. Messed up or just sly like a fox, it's a l arge collection of fascinating human beings just trudging along like the rest of us, trying to get by".

Thailand might not have been colonised (just about the only Asian country not to have) but King Rama V had to concede land to England and France as well as some neighbouring countries to avoid it being taken by more violent means. He was clever for his time (King Rama V) and he probably did more good for the people of Thailand than anyone else has in his realisation that his army at the time was in no way as strong as the attacking countries and chose to resolve these disputes with diplomacy rather than combat even if land had to be ceded in the painful process.

On your final quote - I'm afraid that "trudging along like the rest of us, trying to get by" is completely the wrong approach in today's technology dominated era and it is this that is patently wrong with Thailand, no question!!! You just cannot do this in this time and age as those countries already embracing technology such as India and China are doing very nicely thank you and any other countries with the right approach will soon pass Thailand and leave it behind in it's wake in the prosperity stakes and all that that can bring with it.

So quaint as it all is, if Thailand wants it's people to conquer poverty and make better lives for it's citizens they must CHANGE, and change SOON. Unfortunately the people's voices have been heard and what they have done will set Thailand back years just when it could least afford it and was starting to get it's house in order with Abhisit's Democrats.

Thai's are a conservative bunch and resist change at every juncture. They need to change their outlook such as Singapore, Malaysia and even Viet Nam are doing to their benefit. On to the subject matter - one thing in urgent need of change (all aspects of Thai society) is their obsession with protectionism. Other countries adopt similar measures to certain degrees with import tariffs, such as your country in the case of with steel to protect the US losing jobs to emerging economies whose work force labour costs are appreciably lower. Thailand should instead open up the markets to foreign countries to encourage investment which will bring employment to Thailand and PROSPERITY, importantly so. This spat with DTAC over what is (flawed and out of date/touch laws) and petty technicalities with True using this to gain an unfair advantage over a competitor is what is WRONG with Thailand!!!!

Another thing, their past history may show that it made the correct calls for the time but this should be FORGOTTEN now. Business should be allowed to compete on a level playing field and people from foreign countries (you know, us farangs) who choose to live here should be allowed to buy some land (2-3 rai for example) and they should dispel all this paranoia about us coming here to colonise Thailand by the back door as this is rediculous and protectionist to the extreme - based purely on past events in history - but history is all it is now and its time that Thailand entered the real and modern world unless it wants to become a third world country!!!!

[chaoyang]

They could see the writing on the wall with Abhisit and the Dems so they started pushing this issue just before the change of government. This issue about foreign ownership is IMPOSSIBLE for any government to go against. It would be political suicide for PTP to try to wash it away, since the one issue that can not be debated logically in parliament in this country, is that Thailand is for the Thai's, even if they originally came from Guangzhou.

I have read a lot of books about CP, and they are big business fixers in China. I was a little surprised to see one night on the TV whilst on business in China, the head of Chia Thai holdings having a quiet cup of tea with the Chinese premier. Irrespective of their well known counsel to some of the more influential in Thailand. They are one of (if not the) the most influential Asian business companies.

http://www.cpthailan...ew&articleId=23

Thailand's CP Group Chairman/CEO Appointed As President Of China Overseas Chinese Entrepreneurs Association

http://www.cpthailan...entinChina.aspx

First and LARGEST foreign investor in China.

Just think how big that has to be.

This is not accurate. CP might be the largest foreign multinational involved in agribusiness in China, but I'm certain is is not the largest mulrtinational.

Ever heard of these:

Wal-Mart

Volkswagen/Audi

Daimler Benz

General Motors

Seimens

(To name just a quick few).

All of them have absolutely enormous operations in China. Audi, for example, makes and sells more cars in China than it does in any other country in the world. GM with is minivan, commercial trucks and cars, is the largest selling vehicle maker in China.

Then there are things like Taiwan-based Foxconn, which makes ALL the iPhones and iPads in the world at is operations on the Chinese mainland.

CP may be big, but it ain't nowhere near that.

Edited July 12, 2011 by chaoyang

[isaanpaul]

Well well. This will put a cat among the pigeons.

I bet there a few people at a certain well known British supermarket chain who are puckering up a little right now.

I now what is a puck, but what means puckering??

[rogerdoger10]

Well phew! I thought these guys found out that DTAC was being run by the Go'auld

[sirchai]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Does anyone know what political grouping True are close to and why they could get deals through when others couldnt? That is also why DTAC find themsleves in this position. Then again commercially they had little choice, but lacked/lack political allies

There is a certain Mr. Vitthya Vejjajiva on the bord of directors of True, so you can make your own assumptions based on that.

Help me! My neighbor is an Alien...............

[webfact]

Deputy Commerce Minister Insists DTAC is Guilty of Foreign Business Act Violation

UPDATE : 12 July 2011

The Commerce Minister has confirmed that the country's second largest telecom giant Total Access Communication or DTAC has breached the Foreign Business Act.

Acting Deputy Commerce Minister Alongkorn Ponlaboot said that after investigating the shareholding structure of the country's second-largest mobile phone operator, Total Access Communication or DTAC, the final ruling is that DTAC has breached the Foreign Business Act through the use of nominees.

He said DTAC currently has foreigners as the majority of its shareholders, and should, therefore, be considered a foreign company.

Alongkorn reiterated that a lot of irregularities were found in the case, starting with DTAC having many offices in the same area, but many of them have not been in operation.

He said DTAC allows loans of more than 10 billion baht without a clear deadline for a repayment date.

He also noted that the minority shareholders in DTAC are allowed to have more votes than the majority, while foreign shareholders gain more dividend shares than Thais.

He pointed out that all of this violates Section 36 of the Foreign Business Act.

He went on to affirm that the probe into the DTAC has nothing to do with politics, as it does not involve any investment support programs.

He confirmed that the case will not have an effect on DTAC system mobile phone users.

However, Department of Business Development Director-General Banyong Limprayoonwong, claims that the case is facing political interference.

He claimed that during the DTAC investigation, the Commerce Minister's adviser, Sanya Sathiraboot invited him for a talk and asked him to release a statement saying DTAC is a foreign company, without having to proceed with further investigation.

Banyong said he did not release the requested statement and he has requested that the Commerce Ministry form a committee to investigate further.

He said the committee has found no documents that could lead to a clear conclusion against DTAC, even when documents that show that seven corporate shareholders of DTAC hold shares in the company on behalf of foreigners have been found.

He said the department has submitted the case for further investigation, but it has been restrained.

He went on to say the deputy commerce minister and his adviser has no authority to investigate DTAC, according to the Foreign Business Act.

Therefore, the department will submit DTAC's case to the police so that relevant authorities can continue with the probe.

-- Tan Network 2011-07-12

[MILT]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

I can tell you what this man has done to me and my family and a lot of others. he is a crook to start with second he has divided this country for his own personal gains and to return to Thailand a free and cleared. he has divided families he has ordered the deaths of thousands he is a major ass.....hole DTAC was in play way before the Dems were in place. Get off your high horse

[draftvader]

Well well. This will put a cat among the pigeons.

I bet there a few people at a certain well known British supermarket chain who are puckering up a little right now.

I now what is a puck, but what means puckering??

I will describe this in the nicest possible way. Puckering is the thing you do when you squeeze your lips to kiss somebody on the cheek. It also refers to the shape of the rectum. In this instance it is talking about putting the 2 together. So, as the Americans would say "Kissing Ass".

[baboon]

Inasmuch as there is all this hue and cry about how convoluted the Thai system is, and how crooked/broken/backward it is, one thing remains: It's still in the hands of the Thais. Sure there are big foreign conglomerates with pretty enormous footprints here, but through that thorny and arcane legal arrangement about ownership, Thailand is for Thais. As much as it irks me, an internationalist, that I can't live where I want without some pretty steep costs to absorb, I have to hand it to them. This is their country, no petty fiefdom of some multinational corporation, nor the summer home of a fat, European/American collection of third generation rich nobodies who inherited their lives from some faceless workaholic. Sorry, I kinda have to side with the "go home if you don't like it" crowd. Thailand has to work its own stuff through. They'll get there, in their own distinctly Thai way. And I'll giggle the whole time, cuz I love the place and watch loving lots of people froth over the "insanity" the "unfairness" and the unbelievable absurdity of it all.

For whatever it is, Thailand is a mirror of the whole world. It just has the b**ls to BE it, out, loud, open and on the table. Messed up or just sly like a fox, it's a large collection of fascinating human beings just trudging along like the rest of us, trying to get by.

Interesting post,but Thailand will be for the Thais when they can truly claim they are a nation of equals,subject to the same laws regardless of status. When the rank and file do not have to kowtow to some uniform just to obtain what is rightfully theirs and have to slip them money under the table just for them to do their job. I know there is no such perfect place in the world,but I think you get my point.

Thailand is for Thais - Well,some of them anyway.

[Samuian]

......

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

Yeah Monson, he sued T. never heard anything since... is it how T. got his hands on the needed technology, the only private sat channels he could secure cause he was then minister for transport and telecommunications und Chavalit and the army then wanted a communications satellite, T. got the only rights to the private channels... BINGO!

[bino]

Actually, the funny thing was I dreaming I was walking home in the dark last night, and trod in some animal excrement, and said oh dear POO!

And then a sweet 40 year old feminine sweet northern voice piped in behind me and said "Poo mah laew jaaaoooo"

And I said "I like you, but your brother is I hear mark"

and she said "No you heard wrong, he is maew"

and I said "no you aren't understanding me, I think your brother is like a locksmith"

and she says, "how do you mean"

and I said "I think he talks about a lot of key"

and then she said, "no no that's nothing to do with me"

and I said, "well he said you are like his clone, and a little silly if i may say so"

and she said "well perhaps I am like him, but I am not sludge. And I am not sillyclone anywhere either. I am Poo"

and I said,"well if you are clone and also poo, then that probably means there is an awful lot of excrement in the things that you lot are talking about. So you can be good bui muck, but also explains the stench of your government as well"

Awesome! I got it, and loved it!

Always like reading your posts, always right on the money.

[webfact]

DTAC Disappointed with Shareholding Probe

An executive of the country's second largest mobile phone operator expresses disappointment with the Commerce Ministry's preliminary findings on its alleged breach of the foreign business law.

Chief Executive Officer of Total Access Communication or DTAC, the country's second largest mobile phone operator, John Eddie Abdullah said DTAC has been treated unfairly.

He expressed his disappointment with the Business Development Department's preliminary probe results.

The ad-hoc fact-finding panel concluded there were grounds to suspect that DTAC had breached the foreign business law by having more than 51 percent of its shares owned by foreigners.

The issue was brought to the Commerce Ministry's attention after True Move filed a complaint with the Crime Suppression Division that DTAC was a foreign-owned entity.

Director general of the Business Development Department Banyong Limprayunwong, who oversaw the probe into DTAC's ownership structure, said the department will forward its findings to police for further investigation.

Abdullah maintained DTAC has always complied with the Thai law and will give its full cooperation to the ministry's inquiry to eradicate doubt over its shareholding.

The DTAC executive said his firm is determined to run its business with good governance to help develop the country's telecommunication industry and serve its clients of 22.3 million and its trade partners.

He said DTAC hopes the investigation will be carried out fairly and transparently.

DTAC share price traded down by 50 satang to close at 55 baht at the end of the morning trading session.

-- Tan Network 2011-07-12

[EyesWideOpen]

1. Thailand was colonized, very quietly by the Chinese

2. As long as they are investigating large telecoms , may as well throw AIS on the table as well.

3. I am switching to DTAC. They must be a well run company for the other companies to try to use the government to destroy them...

[skippybangkok]

Some one on Telenor must be saying now "who the F#$k thought of the bright idea to issue an injuction against CAT&True 3G contract"..........

Eddie was all smiles for the camera when submitting the application for injunction, guess he is now busy taking is size 11 foot out of his mouth now.

Edited July 12, 2011 by skippybangkok

[harsh4]

Wowee,

Here we go......

It's about DTAC vs AIS... no prizes for guessing why... first blow in recovering lost ground during the '5 years of turmoil' as reported by BBC recently...

[housepainter]

I expect ET will be phoning home any time soon then?

[Arkady]

Dep Commerce Minister suggests DTAC renew its business license as foreign Co. or re-arrange its shareholding structure to remain a Thai Co. /via@ASEAN_NEWSROOM

A brilliant suggestion. Having been granted an alien business licence, how are they supposed to operate under the Telecoms Act which prohibits firms more than 49% foreign owned from operating in the telecoms sectors?

[Arkady]

Well well. This will put a cat among the pigeons.

I bet there a few people at a certain well known British supermarket chain who are puckering up a little right now.

Why? The Retail Act permits 100% foreign owned retail businesses, if the investment is over a certain size, and they have an alien business licence.

[Arkady]

If they pursue this case, it will be up to the courts to decide because there is no clear definition of "nominee" in the FBA and the structure used by DTAC is not specifically prohibited. Essentially, the Thai nominees are loaned large amounts of loot offshore to buy shares which have lower voting and dividend rights. As a further safeguard the nominees' shares are pledged to the foreign investor as collateral for the loans and the Civil and Commercial Code conveniently permits pledgees to vote the pledged stock, and these are not considered foreign votes because the shares are still legally owned by Thais.

I don't believe it can proved in court that the nominees are purely tools of the foreign investor, as would be the case in a plain vanilla structure where it can be argued that the nominees don't really own the shares and are in an arrangement that makes no economic sense for them, if they have really put up the money and they have agreed to be instructed how to vote their shares. In the preferred, pledged share structure the Thai investors enter in an arrangement that makes good economic sense for them and where they really own the shares.

The military installed Sarayud government tried to amend the FBA to make preferred, pledged share structures explicitly illegal but failed to get it passed by the legislature. It is very odd to see a caretaker Democrat minister acting as if he is unaware that the 2007 amendment was never passed.

Good luck to them if they get the courts to find Telenor guilty. They will end up with a definition of nominee that will be extremely inconvenient for all the corrupt Thai businessmen who insider trade their own listed companies through nominess.

[elcent]

This is an attack for an indoctrinated globalists agenda. It will be easier to control one major company than two or more . It's not about mobile phone (alone), this is just the front of a related undertaking.

On the medium and long run, it's about internet censorship. Guess who lobbied in Washington again and again.

One has to think a few windings further to see of what it actually is.

Edited July 12, 2011 by elcent

[Stevenredd]

This is an attack for an indoctrinated globalists agenda. It will be easier to control one major company than two or more . It's not about mobile phone (alone), this is just the front of a related undertaking.

On the medium and long run, it's about internet censorship. Guess who lobbied in Washington again and again.

One has to think a few windings further to see of what it actually is.

Could you please elaborate further? Your post sounds fascinating, but deep with currents of which I'm unfamiliar...lobbying Washington? who? Sorry, various lacuna in my knowledge-base make it hard to keep up (dang, I can't read _everything_!! But I try, I try......)

Thanks

[webfact]

Alongkorn clarifies

By The Nation

Published on July 13, 2011

Deputy Commerce Minister Alongkorn Ponlaboot yesterday sent an open letter to officials of the Business Development Department clarifying his sincere intentions, and emphasising that he has never exercised political power to interfere in the investigation of the case involving Total Access Communication (DTAC).

In the letter, Alongkorn said he was very upset about the accusation. He insisted he only wanted to make the case clearer and processed by law after the department's investigating team found enough evidence that DTAC shareholders had breached the law that the case should be further probed.

The move came after the department director-general, Banyong Limprayoonwong, on Monday said the politician had interfered and forced government officials to file a case with the police against DTAC for breach of the Foreign Business Act. "I feel very embarrassed for the country after we found that foreign investors have breached the law, but we cannot do anything to punish violators," Alongkorn said.

-- The Nation 2011-07-13