DTAC Is An Alien Company: Thai Commerce Minister

[sausageandmash]

How can you say the Democrats are still in power. They lost the last election.

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

[tim73]

I have not yet figured out why some Thais are so overtly racist against foreigners. It is not like in the West, where many 3rd world immigrants are on welfare support and are just huge net cost burdens to the societies.

In some circles it is always like a badge of honor to cheat foreigners, no matter what. Better to cheat once 100 dollars worth, instead of honest co-operation worth of 10000 dollars? Is it some kind of inferiority complex or what?

[Big Guy]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

If you dislike and distrust the place so much why don't you go back home.

[SAffer]

Once again we see Thai's exhibiting a complete lack of regard for consequences. Don't they understand this will drive foreign business away?

I mean, A Business should be owned by the company who's name it carries not some Thai somchai who happened to get lucky. They are going to have to change these laws or lose out on a massive amount of opportunities.

No foreign company will step foot in Thailand knowing that a competing Thai firm can put its officers in jail.

What are they thinking?!?

Greg

The foreign companies will still come here... as long as there is tea money to pay, there is money to be made. But, as with most 3rd world economies, there is a lot of risk.

This is such a xenophobic policy about land and business in Thailand- I wish the foreign companies would stay away, just to show these Thais a thing or two.

[Thai at Heart]

Once again we see Thai's exhibiting a complete lack of regard for consequences. Don't they understand this will drive foreign business away?

I mean, A Business should be owned by the company who's name it carries not some Thai somchai who happened to get lucky. They are going to have to change these laws or lose out on a massive amount of opportunities.

No foreign company will step foot in Thailand knowing that a competing Thai firm can put its officers in jail.

What are they thinking?!?

Greg

Do you really think that when CP sits down for it's Monday meetings, that any single employee in the place considers the long term FDI prospects for Thailand? The way they think, is that if anyone wants to come to Thailand to do business, they should partner with CP.

Enormous family fortunes have been made in this country, by being some Thai somchai, although I believe most of those fortunate enough to be in that position, definitely believe they don't have anything in common with any average Somchai. It is the natural order of things that they should have access to these business deals.

[kuffki]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

If you dislike and distrust the place so much why don't you go back home.

This " why don't you go back home" is so old and worn out! please come up with something better, more original

[sanukma]

How can you say the Democrats are still in power. They lost the last election.

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Have PtT formed a new government yet? Have they appointed new ministers? NO. So do you think Thailand now is without ministers in charge?

Democrats are still in charge until PT has formed a new government. Answer enough for you?

[fxe1200]

I know it will never happen. But what might happen if DTAC told the government to go and blow it out of their arse? Can't be shut down as there would be too many people out of work, can it? And what would happen to all the people who have DTAC contracts and phone numbers?

Probably the numbers and contracts will be taken over by AIS, at no extra charge.

[SAffer]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

If you dislike and distrust the place so much why don't you go back home.

oh dear...

[skippybangkok]

Didnt DTAC anger True which is on the other side of the political equation?

DTAC cast the 1st stone against the True-Hutch-CAT 3G deal. Now their glass house is showing signs of cracking.

Yep ! Sun Tsu - check ur defence before u attack

[philw]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

..........and DTAC is NOT AIS.

Talk about ceaseless axe grinding.

Notwithstanding the above, I think this is a very ominous development for the country and could be a harbringer of things to come.

[1bbcd5]

Xenophobia from THE DEMOCRATS.

[Crushdepth]

One more nail in the 3G coffin. Congratulations, Minister.

[animatic]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Does anyone know what political grouping True are close to and why they could get deals through when others couldnt? That is also why DTAC find themsleves in this position. Then again commercially they had little choice, but lacked/lack political allies

Regardless of who started this, Thaksin is nothing if not an equal opportunity opportunist.

This is his long term business sector and if he could stick to anyone for old grudges,

likely he will if it turns a him a profit.

[hammered]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

..........and DTAC is NOT AIS.

Talk about ceaseless axe grinding.

Notwithstanding the above, I think this is a very ominous development for the country and could be a harbringer of things to come.

There are Thai companies that support Thaksin and his mates. There are Thai companies that can swing both ways. There are Thai companies that support the non-Thaksin side. In the last couple of years groups 2 and 3 have been well. Now group 1 will positively expect it. Group 2 will fare OK but with group 3 things look a little less certain. Then of course there is the space occupied by foreign companies. Maybe if a little of this is "cleared" made a little more Thai then reconcilliation can take place with all 3 groups happy enough.

[newermonkey]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

"Still in power"? I thought the house was dissolved already?!

[hammered]

One more nail in the 3G coffin. Congratulations, Minister.

Probably more about who gets to control 3g and then 4g and the profits that can come with it

[KRS1]

I have not yet figured out why some Thais are so overtly racist against foreigners. It is not like in the West, where many 3rd world immigrants are on welfare support and are just huge net cost burdens to the societies.

In some circles it is always like a badge of honor to cheat foreigners, no matter what. Better to cheat once 100 dollars worth, instead of honest co-operation worth of 10000 dollars? Is it some kind of inferiority complex or what?

No, its the superiority complex of foreigners some Thai's hate.

[animatic]

Xenophobia from THE DEMOCRATS.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

In contrast, I cannot find any anti-foreign sentiment at PTP, or at least not more than what alreadt exists among the civil service and the outgoing government.

Well to be fair we haven't yet seen any major policy announcements from PT so it's a bit early.

We can look at TRT who instigated the 25% foreign ownership restriction on telcos which basically hamstrung DTAC and Orange/Truemove who at that time were both saddled with substantial debt and were operating on the more capital intensive GSM bands compared to AIS; then moved it to 49% but that was only so the then PM could flog 96% of AIS to the Singaporeans, also using nominees (so it appeared 49%, and in fact IIRC the legal structure of the deal for AIS was similarly structured as DTAC; so they are roughly the 'same animal').

Same TRT government also were the ones enforcing the rules about foreign ownership in Phuket and removing the usual Thai company with nominees loophole, after the major land deals had gone through, and they needed a bit of a 'kick the foreigners in the face' nationalist drive as the government started to look wobbly; IIRC was around late 2005.

And most of the recommended steps needed to deregulate the Thai economy such as restrictions on ownership, blocked/protected industries, trade barriers...they remain to this day, with the only substantial efforts to open the Thai economy in 1998-2000 period.

It was called Thai Rak Thai for a reason, and much of the policy position was based on showing how Thais would look after Thais....healthcare, government support...anti retailer legislation hamstringings the major by that time foreign owned hypermarkets expanding into the Kingdom by instigating quite severe restrictions on where a hyper market could open which was supposedly to protect Thai mom and pops.

Of course, most people in the retail and commercial real estate sectors know that it was actually to open a runway for the expansion of.....7:11. Which have taken many Thai mom and pops to the cleaners, literally. (look how clean a 7:11 is compared to some mom and pops).

BTW the same people own 7:11 also pretty much own TrueMove. And were represented in TRT by cabinet member Pitak Intarawitayanunt and also Wattana Muangsuk.

HI Steve.

Nice to see you posting with your usual informed accuracy and long memory.

[wackysleet]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Does anyone know what political grouping True are close to and why they could get deals through when others couldnt? That is also why DTAC find themsleves in this position. Then again commercially they had little choice, but lacked/lack political allies

There is a certain Mr. Vitthya Vejjajiva on the bord of directors of True, so you can make your own assumptions based on that.

Try looking at the company that owns True vision then who owns that company and look to see which political party he belongs to.

[animatic]

How can you say the Democrats are still in power. They lost the last election.

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Have PtT formed a new government yet? Have they appointed new ministers? NO. So do you think Thailand now is without ministers in charge?

Democrats are still in charge until PT has formed a new government. Answer enough for you?

They don't have fresh Jim Hackers in office yet,

but the Sir Humphrys are still doing their thing.

In this case turing on a dime to meet the new incoming minister likely mindset,

[MaiChai]

Foreigners shafted in Thailand again. Anyone remember the Carlsberg/Beer Chang case? Bring the foreigners in, let them set up everything for you, then kick them out when the business is making lots of money.

I would add that if DTAC asked a senior lawyer what they should do, I suspect the lawyer would look at them dumbly and say "I don't know". The simple answer is that there is no sure way of being 100% legal in Thailand, to comply with the law. The law can be twisted and manipulated in many ways. I would say its a tough place for foreigners to do business, being sure they won't loose their investment.

Edited July 11, 2011 by MaiChai

[KRS1]

DTAC is the only company that isn't currently pursuing 3g, For good reason, they've had the foresight to wait until the next generation, which will boost them ahead and rule the market.Investing in the current 3g system is a lost cause and money wasted by True and AIS.

DTAC is about to make checkmate, and people are out to stop them.

Like the original inception of cellphones in Thailand, second generation 3g/4g will be the new benchmark. With the money DTAC has saved by not investing in current 3g, no one will be able to touch their performance in the next generation 3/4g.

I've always had good and honest service from DTAC, and they never try to make it seem like your getting something that you aren't unlike True and AIS.

I'd recommend anyone to go with DTAC instead of either True or AIS any day of the week.

[jonclark]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

If you dislike and distrust the place so much why don't you go back home.

This " why don't you go back home" is so old and worn out! please come up with something better, more original

The thing is this IS home for many people of non Thai descent.

All people are asking for is equality and a little respect so we are allowed to contribute and be recognized for our contribution to society.

You wouldn't call an African in America a 'nigger' and tell him or her to get back on the banana boat and go home If he or she complained about their (repeated) negative experiences in the USA for example would you? I'd imagine if you heard someone talk like that you'd be quite shocked and embarrassed, yet repeatedly on this forum whenever people comment about their bad experiences their complaints and comments are met with a sanitized version of what essentially amounts to something akin to "<deleted> off back home nigger".

Apologies for any offense caused. Just trying to make a point.

[steveromagnino]

Xenophobia from THE DEMOCRATS.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

In contrast, I cannot find any anti-foreign sentiment at PTP, or at least not more than what alreadt exists among the civil service and the outgoing government.

Well to be fair we haven't yet seen any major policy announcements from PT so it's a bit early.

We can look at TRT (the grandfather of PT) who instigated the 25% foreign ownership restriction on telcos which basically hamstrung DTAC and Orange/Truemove who at that time as TAC was saddled with substantial debt and were operating on the more capital intensive GSM bands compared to AIS. Govt then moved it to 49% but that was only so the then PM could flog 96% of AIS to the Singaporeans, also using nominees (so it appeared 49%, and in fact IIRC the legal structure of the deal for AIS was similarly structured as DTAC; so they are roughly the 'same animal'). TRT completely derailed telco deregulation, which I suppose is some form of protectionism against foreigners.

Same TRT government also were the ones enforcing the rules about foreign ownership in Phuket and removing the usual Thai company with nominees loophole, after the major land deals had gone through, and they needed a bit of a 'kick the foreigners in the face' nationalist drive as the government started to look wobbly; IIRC was around late 2005.

And they were the ones who increased the VISA and costs of compliance for legally working here also IIRC.

And of course who can forget Thaksin's unprecented attempt to kick Crispin and Tasker out of Thailand for the Far Eastern Economic Review's daring to suggest there might be any issues with the TRT government.

And most of the recommended steps needed to deregulate the Thai economy such as restrictions on ownership, blocked/protected industries, trade barriers...they remain to this day, with the only substantial efforts to open the Thai economy in 1998-2000 period as a result of the IMF prescription needed to rewind some of the foolishness of the Chavalit and Banharn governments (both are TRT/PT former allies) as well as the ongoing issues of the Thai economy; instigated by Chuan Leekpai and the right medicine but given in the wrong dose (too much too soon without enough help along the way) and with very poor instructions (welfare like the univesal healthcare scheme poorly communicated; help to SMEs poorly implemented and communicated; nationalistic confidence building speeches completely missing).

Once founded, Thaksin's 2nd party (having taken the Palang Dhamma party apart) was called Thai Rak Thai for a reason, and much of the policy position was based on showing how Thais would look after Thais....healthcare, government support...or even extending to anti foreign retailer legislation ostensibly to block the major foreign owned hypermarkets expanding into the Kingdom by instigating quite severe restrictions on where a hyper market could open which was supposedly to protect Thai mom and pops.

Of course, most people in the retail and commercial real estate sectors know that it was actually to open a runway for the expansion of.....7:11. Which have taken many Thai mom and pops to the cleaners, literally. (look how clean a 7:11 is compared to some mom and pops).

BTW the same people own 7:11 also pretty much own TrueMove. And were represented in TRT by cabinet member Pitak Intarawitayanunt and also Wattana Muangsuk; in fact one of the founders of TRT was from CP and they were a major supporter early on (despite the obvious issue in the telecoms sector).

When the birdflu crisis hit Thailand, The EU were shocked and very angry when they were told first off the country was bird flu free...and went back and delivered this message to their politicians...only to find out that they were lied to. Millions of birds were destroyed; the closed system was said to be the only way to grow chickens. Now....what is one of CP's biggest product lines? To think they were a minor player in the TRT government is to completely underestimate them.

So to think True are Democrat.... They are pro everyone that can help them :-) And the freetrade agreement with China, who do you think got to spend more time contributing to how it was written? CP? Or the Thai public? (hint, Thai public had zero opportunity to comment except in voting for the people who did the deal, there was basically no consultation at all)

Almost all of the TRT backers were rich from monopolies or protection (Shin included). So it is no surprise that they continued that when they were in power. Back then, the Democrat party stood for globalisation, deregulation and were taking the country down the path of painful medicine. TRT were able to pretty much rewind that, and keep a somewhat protected economic model going by basically relying on export growth via strong industry supported by FTAs and consumption fueled by a nice pump priming injection into the rural economy plus expanded credit which also tended to be designed to reward TRT faithful. Do not for a moment think that the godfathers who make up much of the 300 people in government now are in any way pro or anti foreigner. As the same faces as the previous government and governments before it, they are pro anything that makes them rich, and anti anything which makes them poor.

To describe any of this as 'anti foreigner' is to be a little simplistic. There were vested interests in not opening Thailand up to real competition in many sectors and there still are now.

Subsequent governments have for the most part not stepped too far from that same agenda.

The main difference is perhaps the rhetoric of TRT not accepting help in the tsunami, paying off the IMF, etc etc. All part of a Thai nationalistic theme done well and politically still ok with the world at large. By comparison, subsequent governments have tended to do many of the same things with a 5 year old level of comprehension of how saying these crazily nationalistic things might look to anyone who isn't Thai.

So....last 10 years....consistent theme....very different execution along the way. Dem. PT. PPP. TRT. The minor parties.... this is one of the hardest things to say in a nationalistic country...that we need to open our doors and compete against the world's best and kick their %^&*ing asses; give us a chance to play in the big leagues. No, not one party says that. They all say, 'here's this here's that' 'let us as your government look after you'.

The entire paradigm here is the government has an unlimited budget and should take all steps to look after everyone. How much and who gets what is the only issue. No one is saying government's job is to make our lives easier but other than that they should just get out of the way and stand back while we go and rock the world stage and stop trying to f&^*k s^&*t up.

So...I don't expect PT to be any more or less foreigner friendly than their predecessors, perhaps they will say it a little more nicely, but the underlying message will be much the same. Good news for the dive instructors and english teachers I suppose ;-)

If I was DTAC I would be more than a little worried...there's a reason that the Shin associated stocks soared up to almost 30% a day after the election. And it would be foolish to think that they don't still have a hand in the success or otherwise of AIS. After 4 years of close on fairly vindictive persecution of AIS, DTAC have had it relatively easy. Now it's probably their turn to suffer, given that True have the new government on their side anyhow and DTAC tried to screw True over recently.

After all, in all of this, it's only the consumer who suffers from lack of Telco deregulation. And we can be quietened down with some free tablet PCs and a bit more nationalistic fervour.

Edited July 11, 2011 by steveromagnino

[Just1Voice]

Thailand has two major stumbling blocks when it comes to foreign investors. Kickback and English.

A couple of months ago I read an interview with the president of an major IT company who was looking to expand in S.E. Asia. He was quite clear on why he DIDN'T pick Thailand, saying 30% of start up costs under the table, as well as "ignorant foreign ownership laws". He said he company never has and never will, do anything like that. The second reason they shunned Thailand was the fact that they couldn't find enough people who could speak English to even staff their offices, and being an international company, English was a must.

So, they settled on Singapore. No "tea money" to get their business in, no 51% "nominee" ownership, and EVERYONE speaks English, learning it as a second language in school.

Until Thailand changes their xenophobic laws in regards to foreign ownership, gets rid of the corruption and seriously starts teaching English as a second language, this will continue to happen.

[Sjptain]

Think maybe it's time for Thailand to decide if they are seriously wanting foreign investors or not. I'm sure there are plenty other countries in the region that would like to have the business....

[BOS2BKK]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Better to know what you are talking about before letting your mouth run with vile...it is very well known what Thaksin did to his Partner in that deal in fact the guy was lucky to leave Thailand alive

I would much rather live in a country where billionaires in boardrooms screw over other billionaires for millions of dollars(Thaksin Thailand) than live in a country where the Taxi Mafia, and the BiB screw me out of 200-500 baht every day (Post Thaksin Thailand).

[MaxYakov]

4G has been declared to be alien technology ... :jap:

[Considered Opinion]

Does this mean I don't need to buy that nice, new, shiny 4G phone as yet

4G Thailand does not even have 3G yet They are years behind in cellular phone tech.

I agree. Just sit back and wait..

(Sent from my Samsung Galaxy II, by voice)