Enter On Foreign, Exit On Thai Passport

[IMA_FARANG]

The whole point is that of matching their entry and their exit on their U.S. passports. They may happen to have a Thai immigration officer on their departure who is new or has never seen such a situation before.

He/she may question why they show entry on a U.S. passport, no exit on that passport, and are now leaving on a Thai passport.

For that reason it is wise to have at least BOTH passports at departure and be prepared to explain the situation to his/her supervisor.

And for that exact reason, so not to be delayed on departure at the very least, they should leave that last time on their U.S. passport, and match the entry and exit stamps to avoid confusion by immigration.

The NEXT time they enter Thailand they can use their Thai pasports as any normal Thai citizen would.

In short, why cause themselves any possible delay, when a simple step would avoid any problems?

[samran]

In short, why cause themselves any possible delay, when a simple step would avoid any problems?

Stubbornness, and in some cases I've seen, they are too good to use the Thai passport.

[TerryLH]

"At Checkin (and again at Boarding) the Airline staff will want to see evidence that the passenger has the right to enter the destination Country"

I don't believe that's the case for boarding. They will want to see the boarding pass. If they look at the passport it's not to look at visas, but to match the name with that on the boarding pass. In most cases they'd just look to see if the picture matches the person.

[Johpa]

The lesson learned here, and some early posters were already very familiar with these Thai immigration laws, is that if you are a legal dual citizen and have entered Thailand on your foreign passport then you must maintain your visa on that foreign passport and depart using that same passport. Why any dual citizen holding a Thai passport would enter Thailand on a foreign passport is a bit of a mystery to me, well actually just plain stupid in my mind. In my children's case they had arrived in Thailand on a visa in their US passports, one tourist visa and one student visa, prior to obtaining Thai citizenship and the Thai passport. As my son found out to his chagrin, having Thai citizenship and even speaking fluent Thai will not get you excused from paying the overstay fees that may have accrued from not legally extending the original entry visa.

[vietnamvisa]

I would ask immigration about that, as a Thai national can not be denied entry. So in this case they might allow swapping passports, but might greatly depend on the immigration official.

I dont now

[Mario2008]

"At Checkin (and again at Boarding) the Airline staff will want to see evidence that the passenger has the right to enter the destination Country"

I don't believe that's the case for boarding. They will want to see the boarding pass. If they look at the passport it's not to look at visas, but to match the name with that on the boarding pass. In most cases they'd just look to see if the picture matches the person.

Depends on the airline. I have been checked for my visa both at check-in and boarding, but also not checked at either.

[Mario2008]

The lesson learned here, and some early posters were already very familiar with these Thai immigration laws, is that if you are a legal dual citizen and have entered Thailand on your foreign passport then you must maintain your visa on that foreign passport and depart using that same passport. Why any dual citizen holding a Thai passport would enter Thailand on a foreign passport is a bit of a mystery to me, well actually just plain stupid in my mind. In my children's case they had arrived in Thailand on a visa in their US passports, one tourist visa and one student visa, prior to obtaining Thai citizenship and the Thai passport. As my son found out to his chagrin, having Thai citizenship and even speaking fluent Thai will not get you excused from paying the overstay fees that may have accrued from not legally extending the original entry visa.

That is the opinion of Thai immigration. It remains to be seen how a Thai court will judge. Onfortunately people have little choise to pay the fine, as otherwise they will miss their flight.

The Thai nationality act forbid the use of a foreign passport and immigration has instructions to report persons who aqcuired Thai nationality through naturalisation and still use a foreign passport.

[p_brownstone]

The Thai nationality act forbid the use of a foreign passport and immigration has instructions to report persons who aqcuired Thai nationality through naturalisation and still use a foreign passport.

I think it is totally understandable that any Nation would object to a Naturalised Citizen continueing to hold his original Nationality - the "new" Citizen has made a conscious decision / appeal to acquire Thai (for example) Nationality and for him to expect to keep his "old" Nationality smacks of opportunism or disrespect.

Someone who acquires a Nationality by Birth, having made no actual choice himself - is in a different situation.

Patrick

Edit ; couldn't spell acquire or acquires !

Edited August 26, 2011 by p_brownstone

[supersombat]

I'm facing the same situation.

[Mario2008]

The Thai nationality act forbid the use of a foreign passport and immigration has instructions to report persons who aqcuired Thai nationality through naturalisation and still use a foreign passport.

I think it is totally understandable that any Nation would object to a Naturalised Citizen continueing to hold his original Nationality - the "new" Citizen has made a conscious decision / appeal to aquire Thai (for example) Nationality and for him to expect to keep his "old" Nationality smacks of opportunism or disrespect.

Someone who aquires a Nationality by Birth, having made no actual choice himself - is in a different situation.

Patrick

The point I'm trying to make is that Thai immigration suspects you to keep your permission to stay in your foreign passport uppdated, while on the other hand you are not allowed to use your foreign passport.

[p_brownstone]

The Thai nationality act forbid the use of a foreign passport and immigration has instructions to report persons who aqcuired Thai nationality through naturalisation and still use a foreign passport.

I think it is totally understandable that any Nation would object to a Naturalised Citizen continueing to hold his original Nationality - the "new" Citizen has made a conscious decision / appeal to aquire Thai (for example) Nationality and for him to expect to keep his "old" Nationality smacks of opportunism or disrespect.

Someone who aquires a Nationality by Birth, having made no actual choice himself - is in a different situation.

Patrick

The point I'm trying to make is that Thai immigration suspects you to keep your permission to stay in your foreign passport uppdated, while on the other hand you are not allowed to use your foreign passport.

Sorry - I don't get the point at all?

Must be my long lunch kicking in!

Patrick

[samran]

The Thai nationality act forbid the use of a foreign passport and immigration has instructions to report persons who aqcuired Thai nationality through naturalisation and still use a foreign passport.

I think it is totally understandable that any Nation would object to a Naturalised Citizen continueing to hold his original Nationality - the "new" Citizen has made a conscious decision / appeal to aquire Thai (for example) Nationality and for him to expect to keep his "old" Nationality smacks of opportunism or disrespect.

Someone who aquires a Nationality by Birth, having made no actual choice himself - is in a different situation.

Patrick

It seems there there is only a narrow set of circumstances where you can't use a foreign passport - that is when you are a foreigner who has naturalized as a Thai.

In all other cases (ie a Thai acquiring a second citizenship and those born with Thai dual nationality) there doesn't seem to be a problem. Indeed, immigration will even give you a 12 month extension of stay based in your foreign passport due to the fact that you are a Thai national.

The point I'm trying to make is that Thai immigration suspects you to keep your permission to stay in your foreign passport uppdated, while on the other hand you are not allowed to use your foreign passport.

Edited August 26, 2011 by samran

[Maestro]

I would ask immigration about that, as a Thai national can not be denied entry. So in this case they might allow swapping passports, but might greatly depend on the immigration official.

I dont now

You misunderstood. Nobody said in this topic that a Thai national has been denied entry into Thailand.

[CLEVERTREVOR]

The lesson learned here, and some early posters were already very familiar with these Thai immigration laws, is that if you are a legal dual citizen and have entered Thailand on your foreign passport then you must maintain your visa on that foreign passport and depart using that same passport. Why any dual citizen holding a Thai passport would enter Thailand on a foreign passport is a bit of a mystery to me, well actually just plain stupid in my mind. In my children's case they had arrived in Thailand on a visa in their US passports, one tourist visa and one student visa, prior to obtaining Thai citizenship and the Thai passport. As my son found out to his chagrin, having Thai citizenship and even speaking fluent Thai will not get you excused from paying the overstay fees that may have accrued from not legally extending the original entry visa.

I'm Australian, Thai wife,Twin sons born in Australia... Wife has 2 passports...She entered Thailand with the boys on Aussie passports...Stayed for almost 2 years....I went over to bring the family back for a holiday,,, Went to airport in case of any issues with the twins... No problem with the twins overstay...Wouldn't let my wife leave on her Thai passport... Had to pay 20K after an hour with immigration,,, even dragged the superiors into the discussion, thus wife left on Aussie passport...NOT HAPPY wife...

On returning to Thailand, my wife presented her Thai passport ( the twins have Aussie passports) My wife's account (I wasn't traveling with them) Thai immigration would'nt let her use her Thai passport because of the twins Aussie passports.. She stuck to her guns and insisted she use her Thai passport, (understandably not to pay 20k again) Next our twin hyperactive 5 yr old boys started playing up and screaming... All too much for Thai immigration to handle... They stamped her Thai passport in a hurry and helped her get out of there...

[Mario2008]

The twins can get Thai passports as well.

[samran]

CleverTrevor,

Your wife's experience isn't unusual, though it seems to only happen from time to time.

My younger sister, also a thai-aust dual national turned arrived in BKK on a 'virgin' overseas issued Thai passport and was stamped in no worries. My mother, confused about which one to enter on simply plonked both down on the immi officers desk and they took the Thai PP and stamped her in on that. No questions asked.

Your wife did the right thing by sticking to her guns. Worse comes to worse you ask to speak to a senior officer who over rides them anyway. Presentation of a Thai passport means automatic entry into Thailand.

Next thing you have to organise is your kids Thai passports. The last thing you want for them is a 2x20000 overstay bill for them when they are a bit older.

[CLEVERTREVOR]

CleverTrevor,

Your wife's experience isn't unusual, though it seems to only happen from time to time.

My younger sister, also a thai-aust dual national turned arrived in BKK on a 'virgin' overseas issued Thai passport and was stamped in no worries. My mother, confused about which one to enter on simply plonked both down on the immi officers desk and they took the Thai PP and stamped her in on that. No questions asked.

Your wife did the right thing by sticking to her guns. Worse comes to worse you ask to speak to a senior officer who over rides them anyway. Presentation of a Thai passport means automatic entry into Thailand.

Next thing you have to organise is your kids Thai passports. The last thing you want for them is a 2x20000 overstay bill for them when they are a bit older.

Getting my wife to deal with anything involving paperwork or officialdom can be exhausting !!! You never know , the threat of 2 x 20k just might do it...I'm bringing them back to Aus. again end of Sept..... One thing Ididn't mention is that Thai immigration told me they treat the twins differently once they are over 7 yrs. old , whatever that means??? The boys are only 6 at present, SO I will be making enquires on the way out...

The GOAL - Get the twins Thai passports !!!

[Johpa]

The point I'm trying to make is that Thai immigration suspects you to keep your permission to stay in your foreign passport uppdated, while on the other hand you are not allowed to use your foreign passport.

This thread has meandered away from the initial condition and questions which I described and for which I was seeking an answer. My kids entered Thailand on the only passport they had, a US passport. Once they arrived, and after months of work by my wife, she finally got them Thai citizenship and a Thai passport during their extended stay in Thailand. Since they had arrived on a visa stamped into their US passport they were obligated to depart on that same passport and were expected to maintain their original visa. It may not make much sense to me and others, but it is just the way the system currently works. However, the key here is that upon presentation of your Thai passport, your local Thai immigration office will give you an extension of stay in that foreign passport without hesitation and at a small cost. My daughter was in and out of the local immigration office within 30 minutes and with no need to provide any other documentation. The local immigration officials could not have been more helpful nor made it any easier.

[tombkk]

The point I'm trying to make is that Thai immigration suspects you to keep your permission to stay in your foreign passport uppdated, while on the other hand you are not allowed to use your foreign passport.

This thread has meandered away from the initial condition and questions which I described and for which I was seeking an answer. My kids entered Thailand on the only passport they had, a US passport. Once they arrived, and after months of work by my wife, she finally got them Thai citizenship and a Thai passport during their extended stay in Thailand. Since they had arrived on a visa stamped into their US passport they were obligated to depart on that same passport and were expected to maintain their original visa. It may not make much sense to me and others, but it is just the way the system currently works. However, the key here is that upon presentation of your Thai passport, your local Thai immigration office will give you an extension of stay in that foreign passport without hesitation and at a small cost. My daughter was in and out of the local immigration office within 30 minutes and with no need to provide any other documentation. The local immigration officials could not have been more helpful nor made it any easier.

As has been said, when you enter on a foreign passport, yo are subject to the visas and extension granted. If you have an extension (which will be easy to get if you also have Thai citizenship), no problem. If you let your permissionof stay (visa or extension) expire, you are subject to overstay fine.

If you received your Thai passport when you were abroad, no problem: Just use that one when entering the country.

The tricky thing is when you receive your Thai passport while already in country on a foreign passport. As said above (and exprienced by your son), permission of stay has to be observed.

But: When a thai person leaves the country, they get an exit stamp in their passport (I wouldn't care so much about the stamp as opposed to what is entered into the computer), and they hand in the departure card and keep the arrival card in the passport. They have to present that same arrival card when they re-enter the country, which is the exact opposite of foreigners (with the exception of PR holders). Foreigners hand in the arrival card portion to immigration and keep the departure card portion in the passport until they leave.

I was told that this is what your children should do:

1. Keep the permission to stay updated, so that no overstay occurs.

2. Upon departure, present both the US and the Thai passports to immigration. The US passport in order to exit and not have any overstay, and the Thai passport in order to get the exit stamp in both the passport and the computer! Otherwise, there will be a problem if there is no arrival card in the passport and no departure on that passport in the computer.

I'm reporting second-hand here, it's not my own experience. I was also told that the immigration officer usually needs some persuasion to agree to stamping two passports. I do believe it makes sense, though to stamp the two passports.

[tombkk]

The lesson learned here, and some early posters were already very familiar with these Thai immigration laws, is that if you are a legal dual citizen and have entered Thailand on your foreign passport then you must maintain your visa on that foreign passport and depart using that same passport. Why any dual citizen holding a Thai passport would enter Thailand on a foreign passport is a bit of a mystery to me, well actually just plain stupid in my mind. In my children's case they had arrived in Thailand on a visa in their US passports, one tourist visa and one student visa, prior to obtaining Thai citizenship and the Thai passport. As my son found out to his chagrin, having Thai citizenship and even speaking fluent Thai will not get you excused from paying the overstay fees that may have accrued from not legally extending the original entry visa.

That is the opinion of Thai immigration. It remains to be seen how a Thai court will judge. Onfortunately people have little choise to pay the fine, as otherwise they will miss their flight.

The Thai nationality act forbid the use of a foreign passport and immigration has instructions to report persons who aqcuired Thai nationality through naturalisation and still use a foreign passport.

"Through naturalisation". What if you are Thai by birth, but only just received your Thai passport after having entered on a foreign passport?

[Mario2008]

Naturalisation means that you don't have Thai citizenship, but have applied to get it as your own choise. many countries have restrictions on that, like not allowing dual nationality.

A Thai by birth has Thai citizenship by way of law, he has it from the moment of birth. The Thay government might not know it, till it is aware of the persons birth. But the nationality never the less is already there.

That a person has dual nationality by way of law is in most countries allowed as a person has it wether he likes it or not. By way of naturalisation you choose for a nationality and many countries in that case expect you to renouce your old nationality.

Most countries allow you to renounce nationality, but some countries don't allow it.

For someone who has Thai nationality less strict rules apply, as they can make use of all their nationalities. The Thai nationality law however forbids the use of another nationality for persons who have been naturalised. It is a bit vague article, but immigration has instructions to report persons who have ben naturalized to Thai and enter on a foreign passport, so their Thai nationality can be revoked. (There are no known cases of this actually happening).

[Arkady]

Naturalisation means that you don't have Thai citizenship, but have applied to get it as your own choise. many countries have restrictions on that, like not allowing dual nationality.

A Thai by birth has Thai citizenship by way of law, he has it from the moment of birth. The Thay government might not know it, till it is aware of the persons birth. But the nationality never the less is already there.

That a person has dual nationality by way of law is in most countries allowed as a person has it wether he likes it or not. By way of naturalisation you choose for a nationality and many countries in that case expect you to renouce your old nationality.

Most countries allow you to renounce nationality, but some countries don't allow it.

For someone who has Thai nationality less strict rules apply, as they can make use of all their nationalities. The Thai nationality law however forbids the use of another nationality for persons who have been naturalised. It is a bit vague article, but immigration has instructions to report persons who have ben naturalized to Thai and enter on a foreign passport, so their Thai nationality can be revoked. (There are no known cases of this actually happening).

I have also not come across any cases of naturalized Thais losing their Thai nationality for making use of their other nationality. But there have been many cases of people who got Thai nationality through birth in Thailand to alien parents (before Dec 1971) who lost their Thai nationality in this way. The most recent I know of was a British guy in 2004. The Royal Gazette announcement specified that evidence of his use of his father's nationality was provided by the fact that he used a British passport to enter Thailand. Perhaps he used a new Thai passport to leave.

Actually the instruction to immigration officers was to report any incidences of Thais that have a foreign passport and didn't mention naturalized Thais. The example cited by Immigration on its website referred to Thais who have been naturalized as aliens.

[septeen]

How could it be wrong to offer both passports when leaving? That way, you are disclosing everything,- then the officers have to decide. Just a thought. - Septeen

[septeen]

I am not understanding this,- please clarify. When a foreigner successfully applies for Thai citizenship, then if dual citizenship is illegal, by granting this person Thai citizenship, haven't the authorities broken a rule. How can they ever grant a foreigner citizenship if it is illegal to have duality?

[InterestedObserver]

I am not understanding this,- please clarify. When a foreigner successfully applies for Thai citizenship, then if dual citizenship is illegal, by granting this person Thai citizenship, haven't the authorities broken a rule. How can they ever grant a foreigner citizenship if it is illegal to have duality?

It is not illegal in Thailand to have dual citizenship and have two passports.

[Mario2008]

In case you ask to become a Thai citizen and don't have it by way of birth it is not illegal to have dual citizenship, but you are not allowed to make use of your other nationality (which must probably read as while in Thailand). Immirgation has instructions to report persons who became a Thai citizen but enter on a non-Thai passport, so their Thai passport can be revoked. However, there are no known cases where this has happened.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Maestro
Corrected a typing error.