Johpa Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Just curious as my kids, both legal adults, just obtained their Thai passports. My son entered on his US passport and then finally received his Thai passport last month. Any issues with his leaving the country on his Thai passport next week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endure Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 If you do that surely his US passport will show an overstay as he hasn't been stamped out of the country? Won't be a problem now but might be in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I think it has always been said you exit on what you entered on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 For a person travelling on a foreign passport, Thai immigration needs to match each arrival stamp with a departure stamp. For a person born in Thailand and travelling on a Thai passport, Thai immigration needs to match each departure stamp with an arrival stamp. It is correct that having entered with the US passport they should now leave with the same US passport. If your children were born in Bangkok they may be asked about the missing departure stamp when they arrive, on their next trip to Thailand, with the Thai passport and if this is the case they should explain that on their previous arrival they did not yet have the Thai passport and had it issued to them in Bangkok. If the immigration officer at the arrival desk has difficulty dealing with this, they should ask to speak to a superior officer. Everything is perfectly legal about this but some junior officials may have difficulty comprehending it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johpa Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Since they now have Thai citizenship and Thai passports, they have not renewed or extended their visas. The officials who issued them the passport told them to use the Thai passport upon departure. So there is some conflicting info between Immigration officials and the Ministry of the Interior officials at the passport office. Another question is whether the immigration folks at the airport would still charge them overstay fees if they showed the US passport with the entry stamp? I think I will have my son stop by immigration in Chiang Mai and ask those folks as I have found that office to be very helpful over the decades. But as far as I can see, leaving on the Thai passport will leave a digital trace of an entry without a corresponding exit, but as they will never enter Thailand using their US passport again, I fail to see how this would be much of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Since they now have Thai citizenship and Thai passports, they have not renewed or extended their visas. The officials who issued them the passport told them to use the Thai passport upon departure. So there is some conflicting info between Immigration officials and the Ministry of the Interior officials at the passport office. Another question is whether the immigration folks at the airport would still charge them overstay fees if they showed the US passport with the entry stamp? I think I will have my son stop by immigration in Chiang Mai and ask those folks as I have found that office to be very helpful over the decades. But as far as I can see, leaving on the Thai passport will leave a digital trace of an entry without a corresponding exit, but as they will never enter Thailand using their US passport again, I fail to see how this would be much of an issue. where were they born? If they were born outside of Thailand (like I and our outgoing PM was), then you are going to have to enter Thailand at some point on a Thai passport, for the first time. Fact is, the are here (still) for immigration purposes as US citizens. They'll have to leave as US citizens and re-enter as a Thai citizen. Bothersome I know (and can be only done by air, this trick can't be done at land borders). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Information from other members suggests he has to pay overstay if he currently doesn't have a valid permission to stay in his US-passport. It is the question how a judge will view that, but for that you would have to go to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) If they are below age 15 there is no overstay charge payable and in fact overstay is expected by Immigration officers for such people. Only a small stamp in foreign passport with no consequence. Edit: Missed the "both legal adults" in OP. So 20k fine would be applicable if overstayed for long period of time - if visa entry has not been exceeded there would be no issue - not clear if they have actually overstayed yet or just not intending to renew visa from posts. Edited July 13, 2011 by lopburi3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johpa Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) where were they born? They were both born in the US. They are now Thai citizens and have Thai ID cards and Thai passports. What would prevent them from departing on a Thai passport? Why would they even need to show their US passport at immigration upon departure? Edited July 13, 2011 by Johpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 where were they born? They were both born in the US. They are now Thai citizens and have Thai ID cards and Thai passports. What would prevent them from departing on a Thai passport? Why would they even need to show their US passport at immigration upon departure? What will stop them leaving on their Thai passport? In honesty, probably not much, unless the computer system picks it up. As said, immigration has them down as here as US citizens (despite the fact they are Thai citizens....). Silly, I know. But that is the way the system seems to work (entry stamp = credit, exit stamp = debit; and the ledger must balance). Give it a try, and if it works, then simply never use the US passport for travel in Thailand again. Just rember though, that the US version of themselves will be considered on overstay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visarunner Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 All post have some truth behind it , however you deal with legal and immigration issues in Thailand. I would simply leave with the US Passport , pay overstay(if applicable) and return , in future with Thai Passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Not a bad idea to see what the Chiang Mai immigration office says. At the very least, they can get a one-year extension of stay, I believe free of charge, in the US passport because they are Thai nationals (and now have the documents to prove it). It would be nice if they could record the change from US to Thai passport in their system but I believe that procedure applies only when a foreigner acquires Thai nationality through naturalisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johpa Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 Updating this situation, young lad (22 years old) failed to take his old man's sage advice of seeking an opinion from Chiang Mai immigration officials first and decided to let the immigration officials at the airport, where he was easy prey with no options, make the decisions. Most interestingly, when he tried to depart on his new Thai passport the computers immediately showed that he had entered on his US passport. Indeed, he was not only obligated to depart on that same US passport, but despite the fact that he is now a full Thai citizen, was slapped with the full overstay fine for not extending his US visa in a timely manner. The next chapter is when my daughter, in the exact same situation but on a student visa, asks Chiang Mai immigration whether she can exit the country on her US passport up in Mae Sai and then re-enter on her new Thai passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Why not hand over both passports at departure and let them sort it out? No overstay in Thailand for Thai citizens. Seems a no-brainer (but I have no knowledge in that matter) Edited July 23, 2011 by manarak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Whew sometime people just will not listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA_FARANG Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 The correct procedure is to leave on the foriegn passport they entered under...then when they return use their Thai passport to re-enter Thailand. That balances out the entry and exit stamps in both passports....and makes the Thai immigration people happy. Otherwise they get confused. Now if you want and can afford the time and expense they can go to someplace like Singapore or Malaysia (by air) for a day trip and to do some shopping...exiting on their foriegn passport....then re-enter the next day with their Thai passports. Now everything balances out, and the immigration is happy. And as Thais they don't need a visa for Thailand anyhow. By doing it that way you also avoid any potential questions about overstay when originally entering on a foriegn passport and leaving on a Thai passport....and not showing any exit tamp on the foriegn passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Why not hand over both passports at departure and let them sort it out? No overstay in Thailand for Thai citizens. Seems a no-brainer (but I have no knowledge in that matter) Overstay is due if the person entered on a foreign passport and overstayed. Immigration at airport handled the situation correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_brownstone Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 The next chapter is when my daughter, in the exact same situation but on a student visa, asks Chiang Mai immigration whether she can exit the country on her US passport up in Mae Sai and then re-enter on her new Thai passport. I do not think your daughter can do this "Passport swap" when leaving and re-entering Thailand at a Land border, it only works when traveling by air. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I would ask immigration about that, as a Thai national can not be denied entry. So in this case they might allow swapping passports, but might greatly depend on the immigration official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Updating this situation, young lad (22 years old) failed to take his old man's sage advice of seeking an opinion from Chiang Mai immigration officials first and decided to let the immigration officials at the airport, where he was easy prey with no options, make the decisions. Most interestingly, when he tried to depart on his new Thai passport the computers immediately showed that he had entered on his US passport. Indeed, he was not only obligated to depart on that same US passport, but despite the fact that he is now a full Thai citizen, was slapped with the full overstay fine for not extending his US visa in a timely manner. The next chapter is when my daughter, in the exact same situation but on a student visa, asks Chiang Mai immigration whether she can exit the country on her US passport up in Mae Sai and then re-enter on her new Thai passport. I hate saying to your son 'I told you so', especially as it is a 20,000 baht 'I told you so'. But it does prove that the immigration computers are up to scratch. Moral of the story: if you enter on that passport, you must exit on it.... Edited July 24, 2011 by samran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johpa Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Overstay is due if the person entered on a foreign passport and overstayed. Immigration at airport handled the situation correctly. Whether the assessing a Thai citizen a substantial fine for "overstaying" in their own country as being "correct" is a matter of interpretation. But I am certain that there are fine legal minds that can come to that conclusion on the basis that my son initially entered the country not as Thai citizen. Its just that in many countries the accepted logic does not follow that rather peculiar path. But it is what it is and young lad should indeed have gone to immigration weeks ago, when first informed, to clarify the situation and pay the overstay at that time. Edited July 24, 2011 by Johpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Correct as in current policy. In some "other countries" such as the US it is totally illegal to enter without using your US passport if you have one so it would not become an issue. Here you are allowed to enter on another passport if you hold that nationality but must meet normal entry requirements and obtain visa/extensions of stay. They make it very easy to obtain such an extension of stay and have seen Thai obtaining from Immigration over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Overstay is due if the person entered on a foreign passport and overstayed. Immigration at airport handled the situation correctly. Whether the assessing a Thai citizen a substantial fine for "overstaying" in their own country as being "correct" is a matter of interpretation. But I am certain that there are fine legal minds that can come to that conclusion on the basis that my son initially entered the country not as Thai citizen. Its just that in many countries the accepted logic does not follow that rather peculiar path. But it is what it is and young lad should indeed have gone to immigration weeks ago, when first informed, to clarify the situation and pay the overstay at that time. As per Lop's last email, Australia basically make it impossible for Australian citizens to enter Australia on a non-Australian passport. They generally won't issue you a visa. Add the US to the list and there may be totally legit reasons why countries such as the US and Australia do this, perhaps to avoid situations such as your son's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johpa Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 A final update note on my daughter who entered with a student visa in a US passport and now also has a Thai passport. She just went to the immigration office in Chiang Mai. They were not able to change her status as she too will need to depart Thailand on the same US passport that she entered with, but without any hesitation, or need for additional documentation, they did give her a one year visa (a slight change from her student visa) for a one time fee of 2,000 baat. She only needs to go get it stamped quarterly and there will be no additional fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 They should have provided a one year extension of stay (which I suspect they did) at a cost of 1,900 baht and she only needs to report her address using a TM.47 every 90 days (no stamp in passport). Yes it is very easy to obtain extensions of stay for dual nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimoMax Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Not wise to attempt to leave Thailand on a Thai passport if entered on a Foreign passport. If departing using the Thai passport, A VISA would most likely be required for that Thai Passport to be used and Honored for travel to other Countries. If then a Foreign Passport is then shown as the Passport to be used to enter the County you are traveling to, the Entry Stamp into Thailand will be seen, and any Overstay, if any will be delt with by Immigration. Best if have a new Thai Passport to just enter using it on the next trip. Edited August 24, 2011 by KimoMax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 It does appear that girls are smarter than boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_brownstone Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Not wise to attempt to leave Thailand on a Thai passport if entered on a Foreign passport. If departing using the Thai passport, A VISA would most likely be required for that Thai Passport to be used and Honored for travel to other Countries. If then a Foreign Passport is then shown as the Passport to be used to enter the County you are traveling to, the Entry Stamp into Thailand will be seen, and any Overstay, if any will be delt with by Immigration. Best if have a new Thai Passport to just enter using it on the next trip. Not correct about a Visa being needed in the Thai Passport if the individual holds another Passport which would give him Visa-free entry to the destination Country. This has been detailed dozens of times on this Board. At Checkin (and again at Boarding) the Airline staff will want to see evidence that the passenger has the right to enter the destination Country - it is the Airlines responsibility for all costs of repatriation to Thailand if entry is refused so they are careful about this. So at both these Checks both Passports must be shown. On exiting Thailand the Immigration officer is absolutely not interested whether or not the passenger has a Visa for the destination Country or has any other right to enter. He does not care where the passenger is going, his job is simply to check that the passengers stay in and exit from Thailand has been in accordance with Thai Immigration rules - so at Immigration show only the Thai Passport. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johpa Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 Not wise to attempt to leave Thailand on a Thai passport if entered on a Foreign passport. My son, he who failed to heed my advice, found out that you can not leave Thailand on a Thai passport if you entered on a foreign passport. The computer system used by Thai Immigration will detect the conflicting data and will not allow it. At that point you become a captive audience of the airport immigration officials at the very moment when you need to get on a departing flight and you will be charged the absolute maximum fine for any overstays or other violations. Needless to say you have little to no bargaining chips at that point. And yes, my daughter may have gotten an extension of stay, I received only a summary of my daughter's visit to Chiang Mai Immigration over the phone from the wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Not wise to attempt to leave Thailand on a Thai passport if entered on a Foreign passport. My son, he who failed to heed my advice, found out that you can not leave Thailand on a Thai passport if you entered on a foreign passport. The computer system used by Thai Immigration will detect the conflicting data and will not allow it. At that point you become a captive audience of the airport immigration officials at the very moment when you need to get on a departing flight and you will be charged the absolute maximum fine for any overstays or other violations. Needless to say you have little to no bargaining chips at that point. And yes, my daughter may have gotten an extension of stay, I received only a summary of my daughter's visit to Chiang Mai Immigration over the phone from the wife. how did your son's adventure turn out? Did he make it back into Thailand on his Thai PP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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