Banking For Americans In Thailand 101

[Pib]

--You're using a debit card, so we can't reverse/void the charges. If we try to ring the charge again in Thai baht, you'll be charged double. LIE!

But it can be a serious short term issue as your account will be charged and you have lost that from available credit so for many uses it could result in the second charge being denied (and if not less available cash/credit until removed).

Agree it was designed to get the terminal bank/merchant a piece of the pie that foreign banks were getting with there conversion fee. The foreign banks then put the language in that it was not a currency conversion fee but a foreign transaction fee to allow them to keep charging (at least when they know about it). I believe merchant is supposed to ask customer to opt in to use DCC, just as it is always flashed on ATM screen. But obviously this is not a priority for some and suspect there is financial grain for them as well as bank.

Yeap I agree, it could be a short term issue if the person was making a big charge and/or close to his credit card limit or bank account balance if using a debit card. And I know there would be a lot of cases like this since more and more people nowdays must live on the edge of their financial resources.

At a few particular stores that I know attempt the DCC when using my home country credit/debit card they have their Point of Sale (POS) machines positioned is such a way a person can easily see the transation/selections appearing on the POS's little screen. When a foreign card is inserted/swiped one of the menu selections that appear for the sales clerk to select/press is the currency selection and what I've seen the selection offers USD, Euro, or Baht...and in my case since I was using a credit card issued by a U.S. bank the selection highlighted was USD as if the POS machine new my card was a U.S. bank card. Then the clerk just pressed the Continue button with the USD selection highlighted and out popped the receipt for signature which reflected Baht and USD with the charge to process in USD as a DCC transaction. This selection does not appear if I hand them my Bangkok Bank debit card so the POS machine knows/senses whether it's a Thai bank card or foreign bank card.

It is indeed the individual merchant's choice as to whether they use DCC or not....and as far as I'm concerned those merchants that do use DCC are justing trying to get extra money from you...it's that simple. In the four times DCC was attempted on me I was not asked by the sales clerk whether to charge in USD or Baht. I expect the individual merchant sets the POS machine to do this manually or most likely tells the POS processing local bank (ie., SCB, Bank Bangkok, KBank, etc) to set the POS up that way (that is, default to DCC for non-Thai bank cards). And I bet the store management instructs its sales clerks not to ask whether to charge in USD or Baht simply because a DCC makes more money for the store.

I watched the menus appear on the POS at some stores that don't do the DCC rip-off and the number of POS entries/menu selection the salesclerk must press is definitely less....like there are no currency selection menus appearing which they must select/press.

Now since I know certain stores always do the DCC thing on non-Thai cards, when I've told them to "Charge Baht, Not US Dollars" as I handed them my credit card when that currency selection menu appears the clerk changes the selection to Baht and continues on for a non-DCC transaction.

Yeap, IMHO, DCC is bad, very bad. Why would any customer want to effectively pay approx 4% more due to the DCC lower exchange rate. On a large charge or numerous small charges that adds up to real money real quick....and even if it was only one DCC charge per month that is one too many for me. I prefer as much of "my" money to stay in "my" pocket as possible versus the merchant's pocket. Preaching to the choir I know. Cheers.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

--You're using a debit card, so we can't reverse/void the charges. If we try to ring the charge again in Thai baht, you'll be charged double. LIE!

But it can be a serious short term issue as your account will be charged and you have lost that from available credit so for many uses it could result in the second charge being denied (and if not less available cash/credit until removed).

My "lie" comment above was more aimed at the claim that the merchant couldn't void the original DCC transaction. They clearly could and did in the end.

But yes, even though I never signed that original DCC slip, it did show up as a pending transaction on my card's bank account. And the funds involved were deducted from my "available balance" but not from my "account balance." Meaning there was a kind of hold on the funds in that amount.

The second, non-DCC slip that I did sign for a somewhat lesser amount also was charged to my account and actually paid out the next day. So for the next 4 or 5 days, I had a hold on the DCC slip funds amount in my account until the void transaction finally worked its way through the system and the pending DCC charge was removed.

People can run into a similar kind of issue in the U.S. when they use a bank debit card to pay for gasoline, and the station somehow places a pending $100 charge against your account... even though your actual gas purchase ends up being much less.... If you happen to have a low balance on the account, that kind of thing could leave you overdrawn or with overdraft fees, since the preliminary charge can take some time to drop off.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, your description of the POS machine menus and choices is interesting... I've never actually seen the menus you've described. And in the cases where I've encountered DCC, it's always been rung up away from me... not while I've been standing at a cashier's counter.

But, I suppose, the main point is... the choice to use DCC on non-Thai bank cards is apparently made by the individual merchant/company. I use my U.S. bank cards for everything here, and 99% of the time I never am asked about DCC, and I'm never charged DCC.

As I mentioned, the Pullman transactions were processed via SCB, both the DCC one and the one in Thai baht.

In the example I mentioned above of BNH Hospital where I was asked by the cashier prior to processing whether I wanted the bill in baht or dollars, the charge was run through BKK Bank.

But 99% of the time all over town, I'm never asked and the charges are usually simply rung up in Thai baht from the start, so no 4% skim added or even tried.

So customers need to ask themselves, why exactly would merchants like King Power be employing that kind of approach....

[Pib]

Where I have mentioned the 4 times a DCC transaction was attempted on me was at Sizzler at Central Rama II (Bangkok), HomePro on Ratchaprueck (Bangkok), a Pizza Company (Nakhorn Phatom) and the other one was some grocery store I've forgot the name of in Bang Yai (Bangkok). Whether these "default to a DCC transaction" were store-specific or chain store-specific I don't know...I just know when I go to these particular stores I tell them to "Charge Baht, Not USD."

I think it's somewhat interesting in how some stores process a foreign credit/debit card action, especially with some actually entering the card number into their cash register terminal while still using the POS machine, entering the amount charged, entering an access code, etc. Places like Global (a hardware store) and Foodland I frequent do this extra entry stuff...and I've seen them do it on others/regular Thai's so they ain't singling out little ol' me...sure hope their database is secure. While others like at Big C and Lotus just swipe your card, press one POS machine button and the receipt for signature comes out. Seems each individual merchant or chain-stores have some freedom in how they setup their POS machines to process charges...maybe it also has something to do in how the POS machine must be setup to interface with the different brand cash registers...I don't know; all I know is I try to avoid a DCC transaction from being rung-up.

DCC bad, very bad, unless a person just likes paying approx 4% more due to the lower exchange rate.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well lo and behold, DCC rears its ugly head again... and not involving the TallGuy...

Interestingly, Pib's experience above suggests something may be going on with Minor Co. about this... akin to the linked post below....

Isn't that company owned or founded or run by an American guy???

http://www.thaivisa....otels-and-rest/

Edited December 28, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Pib, your description of the POS machine menus and choices is interesting... I've never actually seen the menus you've described. And in the cases where I've encountered DCC, it's always been rung up away from me... not while I've been standing at a cashier's counter.

There have been a few times sales clerks at some of the stores where I know they default to a DCC transaction and after I have told them to "Charge Baht, Not USD" when handling them my U.S. credit card, the clerk will move the POS machine closer to me so I can see the currency selection menu, watch them move the selection from USD to Baht, and ask me for reconfirmation I want the charge in Baht. I shake my head in the affirmative and the clerk presses the selection to process the charge in Baht...and out pops the receipt for signature reflecting Baht only versus the DCC receipts I've seen that reflect two currencies (Baht and the home country currency/USD). In other cases, the position of the POS machine has made it easy to see the different menu selection and buttons pushed while the clerk was ringing up the charge. DCC bad, very bad.

[czGLoRy]

don't use BOA, had to pay several thousand USD in fees from using BOA cards my first trip here, that was a fun time when I checked my accounts...

Just cancel BOA anyways, a huge amount of better, free alternatives.

[Pib]

don't use BOA, had to pay several thousand USD in fees from using BOA cards my first trip here, that was a fun time when I checked my accounts...

Just cancel BOA anyways, a huge amount of better, free alternatives.

Several thousand USD in BOA fees!!!! Wow that must have been one hell of trip and raised Thailand's GDP by at least 1%! Assuming you don't mean credit card "interest charges" over a payoff period and just "fees" a person would have had to spent some BIG, BIG money on debit/credit cards to get that many "fees" from foreign transaction fees, cash advance fees, etc., I hope you took pictures of the trip. Couldn't agree more about better, free alternatives being out there like Schwab, State Farm, Capital One, etc., to mention a few. Happy Holidays.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

We often talk here about several of the good U.S. bank alternatives for people who want to avoid getting hit by foreign currency exchange fees and/or foreign ATM fees, such as Charles Schwab Bank, Capital One Bank and State Farm Bank, among others... Well, one relatively little-known option in that area just has gotten better in some ways...

Service Credit Union, which is open to anyone who has a living immediate family member who's served or serving in the military, has revised as of Jan. 1, 2012 their rules regarding their Service and Service Plus checking accounts regarding the credit union reimbursing account holders for foreign ATM fees and VISA International Service Assessment (ISA) fees when using SCU's VISA debit card outside the U.S.

The good news is as of the start of the year, for eligible account holders, SCU is no longer requiring a $1500 minimum average daily balance in their accounts along with a payroll or pension direct deposit in order to qualify for the ATM and ISA rebates. Now, only the payroll or pension monthly direct deposit is required in order to qualify.

The less good news is SCU has now imposed a $20 per month limit on their foreign ATM fee reimbursements and a separate $20 per month cap on their VISA ISA fee reimbursements...the ISA fee being the 1% card network fee on foreign transactions that's often assessed. Previously, the credit union's month end ATM and ISA reimbursements were not capped, but only were awarded for accounts with $1500 average daily balances. So under the $20 monthly ATM fee cap, that would be equal to having up to 4 Thai bank 150 baht ATM withdrawal fees reimbursed per month.

Here's a link about the SCU's new policy for ATM and ISA rebates....

https://www.servicecu.org/civilian/content/FreeAtms.asp

I've had an account with SCU for some time, and have generally found them a good organization to deal with. Their online banking is clear and comprehensive. They have online chat support and various other features that are expat friendly, because they're geared toward those in the military who often are overseas.

Until now, I've never much used their VISA debit card because I really didn't want to keep more than $1500 in a regular checking account earning basically no interest when I had other comparable accounts that paid 3% or better interest. But now that there's no minimum balance requirement with SCU in order to receive the ATM and ISA fee rebates, the change makes it much more likely that I'll start using their account and card more often.

SCU has several different categories of eligibility for becoming a member... But the broadest one is the following:

I am a U.S. civilian employee of the Department of Defense and/or stand-by, inactive, retired or active military personnel of the Department of Defense; or I am a family member of one of the above.

In my case, I was eligible because my father served in the Army during the Korean War... But I suspect, a lot of folks around these parts have more direct or other kinds of past or present military affiliations that likewise would cover the SCU eligibility requirement.

[Pib]

John,

Great info...I just went through a partial application just to see how their application menus work for addresses and they include the ability to enter APO addresses as mailing addresses. I just may attempt a signup with these folks based on the important ATM fee reimbursement changes you outlined above...I just need to determine if I need another account to supplement/backup my Schwab and State Farm bank accounts, both of which have been working great.

Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yup... that was the same kind of dilemma I've faced with my other comparable accounts as well... But I figured it never hurts to have another backup account, particularly when you never know when some change might be coming to one of your existing accounts. Best to have options available.

When I signed up with SCU, the no foreign ATM fees deal seemed like kind of a promotion, so I wanted to make sure I grabbed it while it was still valid. But it's turned out to be an ongoing feature for their checking accounts, and now (at least for me) made easier by the fact they're no longer requiring a $1500 baht average daily balance in order to qualify for the ATM rebates... Just a payroll or pension direct deposit, which is very easy to set up with them.

As I said above, my experience with them over the past year or so has been pretty good... They haven't been perfect... But when I've had to deal with their customer service folks about account opening or direct deposit details, they've ended up sorting things out in a pretty reasonable way. And on one time when I had an apparent problem, I ended up talking with their customer service manager, who really did a great job on my behalf.

I think of SCU a lot like Pentagon Federal, although I believe they're a smaller credit union.

The one thing SCU doesn't have is free outbound domestic ACHs... From what I recall, their system will allow you to pull in funds to your SCU account with no charge. But if you want to use SCU's ACH system to send funds out of your SCU account, they charge $7.50 for 3-day service or $9 for next day service. Needless to say, I use other accounts when I want to pull funds out of my SCU account.

BTW, I should add, some of SCU's fee policy language can be a bit confusing... so let me address that...

For their main Service Plus Checking account, they start off by saying it can have a $9 a month maintenance fee if the balance is below $1500.... But, to qualify for the foreign ATM and ISA rebates, you need to do a payroll or pension direct deposit with them. And if you do the direct deposit of pay, then, in addition to getting the foreign fee rebates, they also waive the monthly fee regardless of your account balance. So in the end, assuming you do a direct deposit with them, no monthly fee and ATM fee and ISA fee rebates at month end.

Here's a link to their current 2012 fees schedule:

http://www.servicecu...le_07_01_10.pdf

And here's a blurb from their "About Us" web page:

Service Credit Union was founded in 1957, originally chartered to serve the military, and civilian employees, at Pease Air Force Base in New Hampshire. Today, Service Credit Union provides financial services to over 150,000 members residing all across the U.S. and around the world.

Edited January 6, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Mike45]

This is a great thread and I have learned a great deal.

John you said "accounts that paid 3% or better interest" can you tell me where and how to get that? I have money stuck in very low interest accounts that I would love to move.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This is a great thread and I have learned a great deal.

John you said "accounts that paid 3% or better interest" can you tell me where and how to get that? I have money stuck in very low interest accounts that I would love to move.

The way for Americans right now to earn 3% or better on FDIC-insured, regular bank deposits with regular, normal banks -- no funny business or fuzzy operators here -- is through a type of account called a "rewards checking account," which are very common but typically are offered by medium and smaller banks as opposed to the mega-banks. A lot of them have entirely online account opening processes, though some do require in-branch visits.

But the basic deal is.... in order to earn that amount of interest on whatever deposit amount you have in your account, you have to use your (usually) VISA debit card associated with the account for a certain number of POS (Point of Sale) purchases at any merchant during the month... Usually the requirement is 10 POS per month, sometimes 12 or more. And often there is a requirement to have 1 ACH deposit or withdrawal per month, along with accepting online (instead of paper mailed) monthly statements.

Typical RCA accounts used to have maximum balance caps of $25,000 or so... But in the past couple years, with interest rates dropping through the floor, a lot of the banks have begun lowering those caps... so now a deposit limit of $10,000 or $15,000 per account is more common. But that's not to say you can't open other similar accounts with other banks, if you have a larger amount you want to deposit.

Most of these accounts have no minimum balance requirement and no monthly account fees... If you meet the qualification criteria for that month, you earn the stated interest rate...2% or 3% or whatever for that particular bank. If you don't meet the qualificiation criteria that month, you usually earn a normal/nominal amount, perhaps 0.5% or something like that... And then an entirely new qualification period starts again the next month.

It may sound a bit complicated, but it's really not... For me, just using my debit card to pay for grocery purchases at the grocery store, restaurant meals and other misc. stuff, including topping up my BTS pass, more than covers my POS obligations each month. Usually, there is no minimum amount required by the banks for individual POS transactions. And most of the ones I use have no foreign currency fee or at most 1%.

The nice part is, a lot of these same banks also offer foreign ATM fee rebates, and/or waive their own ATM fees as another benefit if you qualify for that particular month. Some such account specify "domestic" ATM fee rebates only. But others rebate any ATM fees from anywhere... Some say "domestic," but do foreign fee rebates anyway... It's all up to the individual bank and their policies/practices...

Here's the best website I know of for finding and getting info about various rewards checking accounts (as well as finding banks with the best available CD rates).

http://www.depositac...g-accounts.html

Some of the RCA accounts are available nationally to anyone with a residence address anywhere in the U.S., although those national accounts now seem to top out at about 2% APR.

But a lot of the different RCA accounts, especially in the past couple years with declining interest rates, have begun limiting those accounts only to people who live in a particular state or local region around the bank, and paying higher rates than the nationally available ones. My current 3% and 3.5% accounts are both local/state ones that aren't available nationally.

The "Deposit Accounts" site above will allow you to search both national and state specific accounts. Some states have higher rate accounts available... Some states have much lower rates, although still better than the typical normal bank account these days. To check local accounts for a particular state, you click the "Filter Accounts" button on that web site and then choose your state and whether or not you need online application capability.

Another clearinghouse site that allows you to search for RCA accounts, and link to the banks offering them, is here:

https://www.checkingfinder.com/

Edited January 6, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

The one thing SCU doesn't have is free outbound domestic ACHs... From what I recall, their system will allow you to pull in funds to your SCU account with no charge. But if you want to use SCU's ACH system to send funds out of your SCU account, they charge $7.50 for 3-day service or $9 for next day service. Needless to say, I use other accounts when I want to pull funds out of my SCU account.

BTW, I should add, some of SCU's fee policy language can be a bit confusing... so let me address that...

For their main Service Plus Checking account, they start off by saying it can have a $9 a month maintenance fee if the balance is below $1500.... But, to qualify for the foreign ATM and ISA rebates, you need to do a payroll or pension direct deposit with them. And if you do the direct deposit of pay, then, in addition to getting the foreign fee rebates, they also waive the monthly fee regardless of your account balance. So in the end, assuming you do a direct deposit with them, no monthly fee and ATM fee and ISA fee rebates at month end.

Here's a link to their current 2012 fees schedule:

http://www.servicecu...le_07_01_10.pdf

Those are two important devil in the details not to imply they are devious in any way...just important details. Like you, I could send an ACH from one of my other bank accounts which provides free ACH transfers and if ever needing to pull money from my Service Credit Union account I would once again pull the money by using a free ACH transfer from one of my other bank accounts. And if a person has another bank account where maybe he already has a monthly salary/pension going to in order to get some extra benefit then that person would have to make the decision on which bank/credit union to send the monthly pension to in order to gain a benefit at one while losing a benefit at the other. But if a person is fortunately enough to have more than one monthly salaries/pensions due to his current/previous work life then this may not be an issue.

Yeap, good info....details like this can make all the difference sometimes in whether an individual opens an account with bank XYZ....each person's current situation will be different.

[soundman]

Posts concerning board moderation have been remove from view.

As was the case, use report button, or PM a mod direct. Do not start getting stuck into each other throwing around the rule book.

..............................

Note: From time to time some members need, for whatever reason, to change their Thai Visa account details. They make a request to board admin, and if approved, get a different nic.

Depending on the circumstances, we do not remove the content under the previous nic. from our database.

Anymore on this subject - please take it up with board admin or moderator.

Regards.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There's an interesting article today from Bloomberg News on the U.S. IRS offering another kind of amnesty for Americans who have been failing to disclose their financial holdings kept abroad so as to avoid taxation.

After seeing the article, I did a separate post on it here on ThaiVisa in the appropriate subject thread. But there's also a sidenote in the same article talking about some banks in Europe being reluctant to take or keep American customers become of some related, potential, forthcoming U.S. disclosure requirements that could fall onto foreign banks...

For anyone with an interest in the subject, the post and link to the original Bloomberg article are here...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I knew there were various good reasons that I decided to get an Android smartphone when it came time recently to replace my mobile phone... And here's just one of them.

In looking thru my monthly Charles Schwab Bank statement today, I noticed that Schwab is now offering mobile check deposits into its bank and brokerage accounts to customers who use Schwab's mobile app on certain Android and IPhone devices.

Unlike PenFed's online check deposit service where you have to use a scanner connected to a computer in order to scan and process the check you want to deposit, the Schwab mobile check deposit system relies on their mobile phone app and the phone taking a photo of the front and back of the paper check, which is then processed as a digital file.

According to the Schwab website, the Schwab Mobile Deposit service is available for the iPhone 3, 3GS, and 4, and Android smartphones running Android OS version 2.1 or higher. You first need to download and install the Schwab mobile app on your smartphone, and then use that app to apply for the Schwab mobile deposit service. They'll then notify you by email if you've been accepted to use the service.

I've used the scanner-based PenFed online check deposit service several times, and it works great -- provided you can remember which is the correct corner of your flatbed scanner to place the paper check on... Unfortunately, their web-based interface isn't particularly helpful in sorting out that detail. But in all other respects, it works fine and they give immediate credit for accepted deposits.

As for the timing of Schwab processing mobile check deposits, their website says:

"Mobile deposits submitted before 4 p.m. local time within the contiguous U.S. will be processed the same business day."

The Schwab website's FAQs section also notes:

Who is eligible for the service?

The Schwab Mobile Deposit service is subject to certain eligibility requirements, and enrollment is not guaranteed. In addition, certain account types are not eligible, such as retirement accounts and 529 plans. Also, mobile deposits to business accounts are not available at this time.

Are all types of checks eligible for this service?

Checks must be issued by a U.S. bank in U.S. dollars. You may use the Schwab Mobile Deposit service to deposit original paper checks that are made payable to the name of the account holder or trust. Listed below are some checks that are not eligible for this service:

• Checks payable to others
  
• Checks that are not dated, are postdated, or are more than six months old
  
• Checks payable to "Cash," "Charles Schwab," or "Charles Schwab Bank"
  
• Traveler's checks
  
• Checks that exceed your mobile daily deposit limit
  

Is there a limit to the amount of money I may deposit using this service?

Yes. There is a limit on the amount you may deposit each day. Your daily deposit limit amount is clearly indicated on the Deposit screen, just under the Amount field.

Be interesting to see how this works... If anyone's already used it, please do post here with a report.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, Schwab promised me an answer to my application within three days... And tonight, a few hours after I submitted the app, I got an email from Schwab confirming they'd set me up for remote deposits...

Now I just need someone here in the TV audience to give me a check to test deposit in my account. Any volunteers? Anyone got a spare CCF settlement check???

[Actually, just to be clear, I'm joking in the pgh above... Besides, to use Schwab's remote deposit, the check has to be made out to the same name as the name on your Schwab account.]

Edited January 12, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

fyi, I had this odd kind of email advisory from one of my U.S. banks today. The emphasis of bolding and underline is mine added.

I say "odd," because it's not clear after reading the advisory what a typical customer is supposed to do with this info:

Fraud Alert Involving E-mail Intrusions to Facilitate Wire Transfers Overseas

20 January 2012

The FBI has observed a trend in which cyber criminals are compromising the e-mail accounts of U.S. individuals and businesses and using variations of the legitimate e-mail addresses associated with the victim accounts to request and authorize overseas transactions. The wire transfers are being sent to the bank accounts of individuals typically located domestically or in Australia and the funds are being sent directly to Malaysia. Investigations indicate that some of the money mules in the U.S. and Australia are victims of a romance scam and are asked to further transfer the funds to Malaysia. As of December 2011, the attempted fraud amounts total approximately $23 million; the actual victim losses are approximately $6 million.

This type of fraud has affected banks, broker/dealers, credit unions and other institutions. Therefore, this threat is relevant to any organization that may engage with clients through e-mail channels.

In a typical scenario, the cyber criminal will send an e-mail to a financial institution, brokerage firm employee, or the victim’s financial advisor pretending to be the victim and request the balance of the victim’s account. When the request for balance information is successful, the cyber criminal then sends another e-mail providing a reason why they can only communicate via e-mail and asks that a wire transfer be initiated on their behalf. The excuse is typically based on an illness or death in the family which prevents the account holder from conducting business as usual.

Victims

Victims of these schemes include both individuals and businesses that typically invest significant

amounts of money with their financial advisor(s) or financial institution(s). The individual unauthorized wire transfers range from $17,500 to $183,000. 2

E-mail Addresses

Cyber criminals are using both legitimate compromised e-mail accounts and e-mail addresses that are slightly altered. In cases in which the e-mail addresses were adjusted, they were either modified via the top level domain (eg., from .com to .net) or by adding an additional letter to the user name (eg., [email protected] to [email protected]). Further investigations have also revealed that the e-mail service provider name has been modified by changing a letter to a number or vice versa (eg., [email protected] to [email protected]). The modifications can be very subtle and easily mistaken as the legitimate account holder’s official e-mail address on file. In many cases, the e-mails have originated from e-mail service providers including Yahoo, Gmail, and AOL.

Authentication

In some instances wary financial institutions or brokerage firm employees asked for a letter of payment authorization via fax, and the cyber criminals were able to produce a fax with the legitimate customer’s signature as further proof that the transaction was being requested by the bank customer. This was most likely done through extensive research of the compromised e-mail accounts in which the cyber criminals were able to obtain copies of official documents signed by the victim. Some institutions reported that the signatures resembled a "copy and paste" from a previous document.

There have been several reports connected to this scheme where the cyber criminal modified the victim’s e-mail settings to block all legitimate e-mails from the victim’s financial institution. This was accomplished either by implementing a spam rule to dump all communications from the financial institution into a spam folder or automatically deleting the communications. Either method prevents the victim from being alerted that the transaction had taken place and may provide additional time for the money to be transferred out of the account before anyone can identify the transaction as fraudulent.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Wow... an interesting development... Wonder what's going to happen with HSBC Premier account holders who currently benefit from fee waivers and online international transfers to HSBC in Thailand.

Revamping HSBC sells Thai banking assets

BANGKOK, January 26, 2012 (AFP) - Europe's biggest bank HSBC said Wednesday that it was selling its retail banking and wealth management business in Thailand to Bank of Ayudhya, the latest in a series of asset sales.

MORE:

[CaptHaddock]

Wow... an interesting development... Wonder what's going to happen with HSBC Premier account holders who currently benefit from fee waivers and online international transfers to HSBC in Thailand.

TallGuy,

Now that my HSBC Premier account is about to be toast, do you know if I will be able to open a Schwab account and credit card account from Thailand? The Premier functions that I need to replace are: ACH transfers from US to Bangkok Bank and a credit card without foreign exchange fees. Did you open your Schwab account here or while in the US. I do have a US mailing address in FL.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Captain, have you actually received any communication from HSBC about what's going to happen as a result of HSBC selling their Thai retail banking to Bank of Ayudhya???

If you have a U.S. based HSBC account, that account would still continue on Premier status, I'd assume... But presumably it wouldn't offer any great benefit in Thailand anymore, once HSBC sheds its Thai banking operation. However, if you have (or also have) a Thai-based HSBC account, that account probably will be toast, or at least, offered to transition to Bank of Ayudhya...

I've got to believe HSBC has some transition plan developed for its customers regarding Thailand...but I haven't seen anything as yet as to how they're going to handle it... Could end up with a lot of pissed-off ex-pats... since it would affect the Brits as well as the Americans with Premier status. And those are the well-heeled customers a bank really shouldn't want to piss off.

As for your questions, as long as you have your own mailing address in FL, you should be able to proceed using that address to open a checking and/or brokerage account with Schwab. Their now unfortunately named High Yield Checking Account (I say that because the APR is now under 1%) is free, no minimum balance and no foreign currency fee with a VISA debit card.

You probably could also proceed from Thailand (I believe others have reported doing so). But I think it's easier and cleaner to work from a U.S. address -- as long as you have some kind of mail forwarding arrangement established for things like when your bank card arrives.

More broadly, there are all kinds of U.S. banking arrangements (though not necessarily with the mega banks) that would provide free online domestic ACH transfers to another U.S. ABA routing number, such as BKKB NY has. Schwab isn't the only one to offer that service, by any means.

As for the no fee credit card, keep in mind that Schwab Bank no longer offers its no-foreign currency fee VISA credit card. And even those that already had it, as I did, recently had it by decree transitioned to a Bank of America Cash Rewards card with (thankfully) no foreign currency fee... But I don't believe BofA is making that same offer available direct to its own customers or new customers. It's an arrangement only for the former Schwab cardholders. Most or all of BofA's credit cards have 3% foreign currency fees.

So, in the credit card world, Capital One is probably one of the better bets for no foreign currency fee credit cards, and a lot of their cards have relatively attractive interest rates... But, Capital One is very finicky about their accountholders needing to have and use U.S. addresses, far moreso than Schwab.... So Florida definitely would be the route with Cap One.

BTW, Cap One may also have some regular banking accounts that offer free domestic ACHs through their online banking... But their specific account offerings vary state by state, depending on whether they have physical branches in that state.... or they don't and only do online banking account openings in those states. In states where they do have physical branches, you can't open a checking account with them via online application -- you have to do it in person. In states where they don't have branches, you can open an online checking account. And that's based on what address/state you're using as your address of record.

The way to check that quickly is just go to the main Cap One web site, and they'll ask you to enter your zip code to determine what banking services are available to you... and the info then shown on their web site will reflect what they do and don't offer in FL.

Other than Cap One, Pentagon Federal Credit Union, which despite its name does allow the general public to become members, has recently changed all of its credit cards to be no foreign currency fee varieties... And their interest rates too are very attractive. But... at least for right now, I don't believe PFCU's online banking will allow outbound domestic ACH transfers.

I don't know your idea...but to my way of thinking, you wouldn't necessarily need to have the two different services in the same bank, even though Cap One might be able to handle that... You could have the ACH function in one bank and then the credit card somewhere else... Depends on your idea.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, I see HSBC Thailand now has an announcement on its website regarding them dumping Thailand... But nothing in that announcement about what it will mean for Premier account holders and their perks...

The announcement is here:

http://www.hsbc.co.t...uncement-EN.pdf

Pertinent excerpts:

This means that we will transfer our personal loan, mortgage and other retail banking portfolios to Krungsri Group. For deposit accounts and bill of exchange customers, your consent will be sought before the transfer. Subject to regulatory approval, the transfer of personal loan, mortgage and other retail banking portfolios is expected to be completed on 31 March 2012, whilst the transfer of retail credit card portfolios is expected to be completed by the end of 2012.

and

Please be advised that our Main Branch on Rama IV Road will remain open until 30 June 2012 and our Thonglor Branch will remain open until 31 March 2012. During this period, we invite you to make use of our banking services as usual, including deposits/withdrawals, selling/buying of unit trusts, cheque books, ATM cards, credit cards, personal loans, mortgages, overdrafts, safe deposit boxes, foreign currency exchange and international banking services.

Edited January 26, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Other than Cap One, Pentagon Federal Credit Union, which despite its name does allow the general public to become members, has recently changed all of its credit cards to be no foreign currency fee varieties... And their interest rates too are very attractive. But... at least for right now, I don't believe PFCU's online banking will allow outbound domestic ACH transfers.

John,

Thanks for this tip...I almost couldn't believe PenFed offered no foreign transaction fee credit cards until I looked at their web site. I've been perfectly happy with my CapOne No Hassle Mastercard with no foreign transaction fee, no annual fee, and 2%/1% cash back, but I only have that one credit card that doesn't charge a foreign transaction fee (got other cards but they charge a fee) and I would like to have a second credit card in hand which does not charge a foreign transaction fee in case CapOne changes their foreign transaction fee policy some day.

By the way, it appears the exact CapOne No Hassles card I mentioned is no longer offered by CapOne but they still offer the similar one that has an annual fee of $39 but all the other benefits I mentioned. Yeap, been tickled pink with my CapOne credit card and getting 2% cash back for my Lotus, Big C, HomePro, fuel, etc., type buys...and 1% on other buys. I use it as much as I can here in Thailand...been using it for a little over a year now...and have had zero problems...just a nice amount of cash back on my buys.

From the initial/quick look at the PenFed credit cards I'm leaning toward the Platinum or Gold Visa card...one offers some cash rewards while another has free travel/auto rental insurance. I also see from briefly starting the PenFed Savings account sign-up process (must be a PenFed banking member first to apply for a credit card) that their online Savings/Shares account sign-up application allows APO addresses where most U.S. banking/credit card sites only allow one of the 50 states as the primary residence address....for military retirees in Thailand who also have an APO address the ability to use your APO address can be extremely helpful in signing up for a new account. Can't be sure their online credit card application also allows APO addresses until I complete the basic Savings/Shares account applications, but since their Shares account application allows APO addresses that's a good indicator their credit card application would also allow an APO address at the primary residence. Maybe someone out there living overseas/in Thailand has already completed the sign-up process from overseas and knows the answer.

I've got more checking/research to do on PenFed but their credit cards look very promising especially since they do not apply a foreign transaction fee.

Cheers,

Pib

P.S. Too bad PenFed's savings/checking accounts don't allow free outbound ACH transfers; only free inbound ACH transfers. Guess PenFed wants to hang onto a person's and/or make a fee when doing outbound transfers. But that's not a biggie if a person already has another financial account that does free outbound ACH transfers.

[Pib]

Forgive me if this info has already been mentioned, but the web site called Card Hub can be very helpful to find/narrow down the type of credit card a person wants. The Narrow Your Search menu allows a person to zero in on the type of card(s) they want. I took a look and it listed 25 credit cards with no foreign transaction fee. But it don't list all cards because it didn't show the PenFed no foreign transaction fee cards...maybe because a credit card needs to subscribe to the site or maybe because the no foreign fee feature for PenFed cards is relatively new or ??? But as mentioned, the site may come in handy in the credit card search.

[TwentyBaht]

CaptHaddock,

I recently opened a Schwab account from here. Downloaded the forms. And, mailed to friend in US, who forwarded to Schwab Bank. Used friend's address. Used Passport # for ID. And, Google Voice number for phone. And, a handwritten check (US bank) for first deposit.

Schwab acts quickly when the forms arrive. Overall it took about four weeks by regular mail from start until I got the debit card in hand. And, as said by everyone, no transaction fee.

Please note, there is a Schwab agreement that will come in the return paperwork. Which, much be signed and returned within a few days. But, it can be faxed. So, my friend scanned the agreement and emailed. I signed and faxed via internet to Schwab. And, done.

Also, note about going to the Schwab website to set up the security part of the online account. The username setup page was a bit archaic. It would not tell me if a username is already in use. Just gave me an error message. But, about five tries and I figured it out. And, done.

I want to offer a big thanks to everyone that provided information about the Schwab debit card. This forum can get a bit raucous from time to time, but talented financial people abound here. And, we members benefit by the good and valuable information posted. I would have never known about the Schwab card otherwise.

Cheers

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, re your comments above, I've found PenFed to be a good CU to deal with in terms of their various credit card... And they got even better when they nixed all their foreign currency fees in the past few months.

In terms of process, yes, like most other CUs I'm familiar with, you first have to open a basic share account and keep at least a $5 balance in it... And then, from that point forward, you can expand to any of their other banking services... CDs, credit cards, etc.

I've done all of my varied business with them almost 100% online... So if they allow APOs for opening an account, you can be pretty sure they'll allow it for everything else, since it's all linked into your one membership and all in the same online profile with them.

BTW, PFCU apparently has been working on some kind of external ACH transfer function. I've heard some from them about it... via a CEOs letter a few months back. But thus far, nothing's showed up for actual use. The CEO letter said they were going to be launching it...but the letter was silent on whether it would be free or they'd have a per transaction fee.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I recently opened a Schwab account from here. Downloaded the forms. And, mailed to friend in US, who forwarded to Schwab Bank. Used friend's address. Used Passport # for ID. And, Google Voice number for phone. And, a handwritten check (US bank) for first deposit.

Thanks for that report... I guess I should have been more clear above....

I was trying to address the difference between opening a new Schwab account using a U.S. address vs opening a new Schwab account using a foreign address as the address of record... I believe they do allow the latter, and some people have done it... But I think sticking with a U.S. address of record is the better way to go.

As long as someone has mail forwarding set up or some comparable arrangement, there's no reason you'd have to be physically present in the U.S. when completing the application process using a U.S. address of record. Schwab handles all that through a combination of postal mail and online.

[CaptHaddock]

Thanks for the good info, TallGuy, Pib and TwentyBaht. I hesitate to use Capital One because I have heard that you have to notify them every 90 days that you are out of the US or they'll freeze the card. Is that the case? We have the Penfed Promise Visa and use it all the time. However, I wanted to have another credit card with no exchange fee as a backup. Yes, our US HSBC Premier account will still be available, but without the Thai branch it isn't worth the opportunity cost. The only benefit is the no exchange rate credit card, but that can be replaced. I'll probably open a Schwab account. So, far HSBC has not communicated with us, but it seems unlikely that the Thailand Premier accounts will survive with privileges.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

OK Captain... that sounds about right...

Re Cap One and their credit card, yes, they do really push on the foreign travel notifications. And in my life, I've had charges unexpectedly declined a couple times...for that very reason. And of course, when that happens, you don't know why, nor does the merchant.. It just shows on their terminal that the charge has been denied.

However, I've found that if one continues with Cap One, and makes a point of stressing to the Cap One security department that you travel regularly and often will be abroad, especially in one particular country, that their system seems to recognize and remember that over time... I haven't done a specifc travel notification with them in probably a year or more.

But, to be fair, I've also learned to never carry the Cap One card as the only card and/or cash in my wallet -- just in case one of those unexpected denials should crop up.

By the way, I'm not sure "freeze" the card is the correct terminology... They'll deny the attempted charge.... But if you then turned around and tried to do an online U.S. charge the same day, I don't know it wouldn't be accepted. But the bottom line is, all that's involved is calling Cap One, confirming your ID, and explaining you're abroad and that they will lift their security hold.

Edited January 27, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK