Respect Means More Than A 'Wai' And 'Sa Wa Dee'

[Wentworth]

I have had some family and others take liberties back home but none would ever go this far..

My wife told me that she had lent one of my laptops to her sister, as her's was being repaired. I didn't have a problem with that and thought nothing of it, I didn't need it that much at the time and was happy to help. Despite the repair happening fairly quickly and me constantly asking for it back, as I needed it to do something, it took 6 weeks to get it back. When I turned it on I realised why. Windows was almost unusable, it had illegal games, films and music on it - and of course viruses, despite having perfectly good virus protection that I installed and was one of those that was uninstalled. On top of that some of my legal programmes had been uninstalled. I'm guessing that they uninstalled the virus protection to do the dodgy stuff. What gives them the right to do this? As per usual I got the 'It wasn't me' response and 'Mai Bpen Rai', to which I said 'Oh, it must have been the Yeti or perhaps a ghost because of my bad karma'. The same family think nothing of taking things for themselves, without saying anything. I have no problem if someone asks but they just don't think - they don't consider that I may want something for a specific purpose. My wife would never dream of doing this. She was annoyed, but said nothing to them and asked me to let it ride. My wife and her sisters were all raised in the same way to have the same values, but plainly this sister choses not to take heed.

I come across selfishness wherever I go - do people here not get taught that what they do may have an adverse impact on others, or do they just not give a dam_n? There are plenty of times that I get back to my car to see that motorbikes have been parked both front and rear; handlebars almost touching the car. On one occasion someone got irate when I tried to move their bike so I could get out - What did they expect me to do, hang around, potentially for hours? When they were parking the car, did they not even consider how I was going to get out?

Of course you cannot label all the people of a nation with the same brush - as I mentioned, people back home can annoy you as well with selfishness. I hear alot of people saying that Thais are respectful, but perhaps I was raised to think of respect as more than being polite when you meet someone and greeting them with a 'Wai' etc, especially if they are older or of a higher social status.

Please don't give me the 'If you don't like it go home' replies, I would prefer to hear something constructive that I can perhaps at least get my head around why these sort of things happen. Or Perhaps the answer is 'T.I.T'

[venturalaw]

You want something constructive. Well, perhaps you can work on changing your attitude to something along the lines of "My possessions have no meaning to me, which is fine since they will not be respected by others while I live in the LOS." That mindset is beyond my capabilities, but perhaps you are able to adopt it so that you are at peace.

That said, I believe if I were in your situation, I would take my laptop to an expert, have it put back into the same condition it was at the time it was 'lent' to sister-in-law, and then submit the bill to said sibling. If she, or rather, when she refuses to pay, I would deduct the amount from any moneys sent to the family in the name of support or assistance, and at the same time note that they can collect the amount of reduction from the offending sibling.

Now this is patently unfair to the family, but perhaps they can teach the sister (clearly their responsibility in assisting the sister to mature is incomplete), how to respect the possessions of others.

On the other hand, if this dysfunction is characteristic of your wife's entire family, then it is very likely that you have been assisting in their support, for it's highly unlikely that they are self-sustaining, and, as previously suggested, just deduct the amount to which you are entitled from future support, and, of course, include a premium for the inconvenience.

Of course this tactic may result in you becoming an outsider, which will have the benefit of preventing them from 'borrowing' from you in the future. Case solved. :jap:

Edited July 21, 2011 by venturalaw

[manarak]

Most Thais I know are suspicious of their family members, because normally they incessantly try to take advantage of every situation.

If you live in Thailand you should also be suspicious and cover your back.

For lending a laptop that means giving them a user account with restricted rights.

[venturalaw]

Come to think of it, the OP is fortunate that the laptop was returned. But, as the OP pointed out, selfishness is not ascribed to Thailand only. Many years ago in the U.S. I once co-signed for a laptop for a stepson. Unknown to me, before it was paid off, he sold it. Instead of paying off the remaining balance, he used the money for a vacation.

[Trembly]

I'm Thai and I have dealt with piss-takers in my family too. The Thai way of reacting would be bury any hatchets and let it be water under the bridge (there isn't anything that you can constructively do about the situation any more) . . .

No need to get the violin out or make dramatic gestures; they win you no respect in Thai culture . . . up to the point where you're playing for keeps and you really do intend to squash them, then there are no rules.

Then you come up with some robust piss take prevention drills, for example make a separate user account with limited rights for the family to use when they ask, as mentioned by venturalaw. This sends the message that you've got your eye on them and you're prepared to give them as much rope as they need.

For getting bikes moved out of the way, just ask them to do it because you want to go out in your vehicle. Escalation is then subject to their reaction.

Letting action or inaction do all the talking and / or quietly chortling sarcasm is however perfectly acceptable because it gives them less cause to react without losing face themselves (remember, in Thailand all is well that is smooth); if they ever pester you again and you would like to give them some change you could trot out "mai dai, phom tong rappidchorb khong khong phom" / "nope, sorry, I have to be responsible for my stuff" or words to that effect.

When Thais play games you hit them where it hurts : the non-physical face, using their own actions or words (remembering the above paragraph). When a move like this is well executed you will find that you may have more supporters and admirers than you initially thought (nothing is missed in a village). If no one backs you up or voices support you're either doing it wrong or you really are in a place where you're not appreciated . . .

Forgive me for conjecturing, but it is possible that you're contributing to them not taking you seriously by getting worked up about things.

For best results always keep a jai -en and always serve it ice-cold.

Edited July 22, 2011 by Trembly

[Wentworth]

I'm Thai and I have dealt with piss-takers in my family too. The Thai way of reacting would be bury any hatchets and let it be water under the bridge (there isn't anything that you can constructively do about the situation any more) . . .

No need to get the violin out or make dramatic gestures; they win you no respect in Thai culture . . . up to the point where you're playing for keeps and you really do intend to squash them, then there are no rules.

Then you come up with some robust piss take prevention drills, for example make a separate user account with limited rights for the family to use when they ask, as mentioned by venturalaw. This sends the message that you've got your eye on them and you're prepared to give them as much rope as they need.

For getting bikes moved out of the way, just ask them to do it because you want to go out in your vehicle. Escalation is then subject to their reaction.

Letting action or inaction do all the talking and / or quietly chortling sarcasm is however perfectly acceptable because it gives them less cause to react without losing face themselves (remember, in Thailand all is well that is smooth); if they ever pester you again and you would like to give them some change you could trot out "mai dai, phom tong rappidchorb khong khong phom" / "nope, sorry, I have to be responsible for my stuff" or words to that effect.

When Thais play games you hit them where it hurts : the non-physical face, using their own actions or words (remembering the above paragraph). When a move like this is well executed you will find that you may have more supporters and admirers than you initially thought (nothing is missed in a village). If no one backs you up or voices support you're either doing it wrong or you really are in a place where you're not appreciated . . .

Forgive me for conjecturing, but it is possible that you're contributing to them not taking you seriously by getting worked up about things.

For best results always keep a jai -en and always serve it ice-cold.

It's great to hear from a Thai person. As well as being understandbly annoyed I really am trying to get my head around how Thais think.

I see what you mean about moving the bikes; I'm sorry but I should really have said that I came back and saw it was in the way and no one was there; I was in the act of moving it when the owner turned up. Normally, if the owner is there, then they see I want to move the car, or I ask them politely, which is usually no problem and they're very apologetic. Even in this case, I just wonder to myself why they park so close to the car, especially as there's a good chance that they won't be there when the car owner comes back.

In terms of parking, I have always looked to see the effect it has on others eg I can't believe so many people here park in front of the gates of a building that is so obviously used to go in out. Of course, I understand that they may just nip into 7/11 for a minute and take a chance. Take my neighbour as an example. They have some gates and a huge sign, which says "Please do not park in front of the gates, this is in constant use". Someone parks there and then they get upset when they have to move their car as my neighbour wants to get in or out.

When people do selfish things here I've always been told "Leave it alone, don't say anything" - I realise there's less chance of confrontation, but sometimes people really don't know they've done something wrong and they need to know. In the case of my sister in law and her family, I think that it never occurs to them that they have been stupid and selfish - they really haven't got the brains, or should I say social manners/etiquette. Most farangs would normally say something like, please don't do that in future because I don't like it. You then know that this person isn't happy and you will know in future; In that way you respect other people and their belongings. Otherwise, you could just keep doing something and annoying people. On the light hearted side, many years ago I wore a jumper that wasn't so fashionable, but my parents gave it to me as a present and I didn't think it was that bad. I felt obliged to wear it but didn't realise I looked really silly wearing it. My then sister in law said to me 'You look like a real Dork in that jumper'. I laughed and never wore it again - I'm willing to bet that lots of people, even other family members saw me wearing it but never said anything.

I will give you an example of how I get my young stepson to think about things. At home he goes to get a drink from the fridge when he's thirsty, he doesn't have to ask; he will if he can't reach. When I first came into contact with him and he was in a friend's or relative's house, then he would do the same thing. I taught him that it was different for other people's houses, It's not our stuff and he needs to ask out of politeness and good manners. If they tell him it's OK and he doesn't need to ask in future, then fair enough - but don't presume.

In terms of the future, I don't want to upset my wife by saying anything at all to my in-laws - regardless of how nicely or constructively I put it, they just won't be borrowing anything from us anymore - if they ask why, then I'll politely remind them of what happened last time. This may or may not be the right way but it's what will happen.

You're right, I've got myself worked-up but they don't know it and so presently they aren't even aware that I'm upset - would they feel anything even if they were?. My values hold me back from revenge. I have come to ask myself 'Are people blatantly selfish and don't care - or is selfishness even a concept they should think about eg why should I care about anyone else?'

I'm very grateful for your response. at least I've got a little more insight into how Thai culture works and it can help me to understand and keep calmer.

[SteeleJoe]

No need to get the violin out or make dramatic gestures; they win you no respect in Thai culture . . . up to the point where you're playing for keeps and you really do intend to squash them, then there are no rules.

Great stuff. Fits exactly with my perception and it's nice to have that reinforcement from someone more qualified to comment.

When Thais play games you hit them where it hurts : the non-physical face, using their own actions or words (remembering the above paragraph). When a move like this is well executed you will find that you may have more supporters and admirers than you initially thought (nothing is missed in a village). If no one backs you up or voices support you're either doing it wrong or you really are in a place where you're not appreciated . . .

One of my favorite things about Thailand and sort of antidote of those feeling of resentment and frustration born of (often petty) injustices; in Thailand if you 'play the game' right, you will be admired by onlookers and sometimes even those whom you are 'playing against': you can actually come out ahead at the end -- better off than you were before the mistreatment...

Wish I could explain what I mean as well as Trembly explains himself but I'm talking about a fairly wide range of things here rather than specifically the type of scenario in the OP...