URGENT -- Gunman kills 'at least' 80 at youth camp near Oslo

[remiss]

150 000 people have gathered in the streets of Oslo today in memory of the victims of the twin attacks. Must say it is quite moving seeing the speeches & all the people

[Travel2003]

150 000 people have gathered in the streets of Oslo today in memory of the victims of the twin attacks. Must say it is quite moving seeing the speeches & all the people

Was supposed to be the "rose march", but too many people showed up.

They made it into the "rose gathering" instead.

Most cities and towns in Norway arrange the same.

[Pakboong]

Among the oddities I find in the news reports is a car bomb with a trunk full of explosives could not do any where near that much damage. The blast has been reported to be equal to 20 tons of explosives. A car trunk, like the one pictured, could not even hold 1% of that amount.

TNT Equivalent

If he had used TNT, he would have had to move 20 tons (which would have been very hard for him to do).

Choosing an explosive with a higher energy density, he was able to get by with a smaller vehicle.

That's why a Megaton nuclear warhead doesn't weigh one million tons (an amazing rocket that would be!).

I agree. If he had used the fertilizer as reported, it would still have taken a box car sized load to cause that much damage. He is a bright guy, by some accounts, but this is something individuals are rarely, if ever, capable of pulling off. The science behind it suggests other involvement.

[Travel2003]

Never thought I would live to see this:

http://www.vg.no/protokoll/?pid=968

[BuckarooBanzai]

Not sure if it has already been posted but if you have some extra time on your hands and want to look at this sick individuals manifesto it can be downloaded here. It is in English at least the parts I have glanced at. http://www.kevinislaughter.com/wp-content/uploads/2083+-+A+European+Declaration+of+Independence.pdf

[EvilDrSomkid]

Among the oddities I find in the news reports is a car bomb with a trunk full of explosives could not do any where near that much damage. The blast has been reported to be equal to 20 tons of explosives. A car trunk, like the one pictured, could not even hold 1% of that amount.

TNT Equivalent

If he had used TNT, he would have had to move 20 tons (which would have been very hard for him to do).

Choosing an explosive with a higher energy density, he was able to get by with a smaller vehicle.

That's why a Megaton nuclear warhead doesn't weigh one million tons (an amazing rocket that would be!).

I agree. If he had used the fertilizer as reported, it would still have taken a box car sized load to cause that much damage. He is a bright guy, by some accounts, but this is something individuals are rarely, if ever, capable of pulling off. The science behind it suggests other involvement.

I read today that he was on MI5's watch list for buying a large amount of chemical online from a Polish supplier.

By all accounts, he is quite intelligent.

[Jingthing]

Intelligent in a stupid and insane way. He actually thought his actions would spark a revolution. Something fairly amazing. Rupert Murdoch's FOX NEWS is making a big deal about how the mass murderer's politics are NOT right wing as pretty much all objective media are reporting (as they feel assaulted by any degradation of their right wing politics). I can't figure out if they're being pathetic or just providing more fodder for comedians.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

He is just a lunatic with a hodgepodge of nutty ideas from different loony philosophies. Do not give him too much credit.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[moe666]

Both

[Exsexyman]

He is just a lunatic with a hodgepodge of nutty ideas from different loony philosophies. Do not give him too much credit.

He is not the only one. Today, Glenn Beck, the darling of the American extreme right and the Tea Party Movement compared the teenagers who were slaughtered on the island in Oslo to the Hitler Youth!

[Steely Dan]

Intelligent in a stupid and insane way. He actually thought his actions would spark a revolution. Something fairly amazing. Rupert Murdoch's FOX NEWS is making a big deal about how the mass murderer's politics are NOT right wing as pretty much all objective media are reporting (as they feel assaulted by any degradation of their right wing politics). I can't figure out if they're being pathetic or just providing more fodder for comedians.

The guy was an evil lunatic, which does not mean that all the people he was influenced by were either evil or lunatics. Nor does it mean they should assume any guilt by association for him citing them as influences, but I suspect this is exactly what is happening from the left wing media.

[Ulysses G.]

He is just a lunatic with a hodgepodge of nutty ideas from different loony philosophies. Do not give him too much credit.

He is not the only one. Today, Glenn Beck, the darling of the American extreme right and the Tea Party Movement compared the teenagers who were slaughtered on the island in Oslo to the Hitler Youth!

Actually what he said was:

"There was a shooting at a political camp, which sounds a little like, you know, the Hitler youth. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Disturbing."

He went on to say:

'This guy who's the shooter is from the rightwing - different than our rightwing. It is still big government. He is coming out and he is doing the work of a madman. He is doing the work of what all people that want big government always do and that commit terrorist acts. They want to destroy a government so they can put another one in that they like,' Glenn said. 'The terrorist who committed these horrible actions has extensively written fringe and extremist government ideas.'

'This guy walked onto this island with a firearm. No one else had one. No one could stop him,' Glenn said.

'These kids were swimming across the lake trying to get help. Neighbors were coming and getting in their boats and going and rowing across the water to be able to grab these kids out. This guy was an absolute and total monster. A monster.'

Edited July 26, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[WarpSpeed]

He is just a lunatic with a hodgepodge of nutty ideas from different loony philosophies. Do not give him too much credit.

He is not the only one. Today, Glenn Beck, the darling of the American extreme right and the Tea Party Movement compared the teenagers who were slaughtered on the island in Oslo to the Hitler Youth!

Actually what he said was:

"There was a shooting at a political camp, which sounds a little like, you know, the Hitler youth. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Disturbing."

He went on to say:

'This guy who's the shooter is from the rightwing - different than our rightwing. It is still big government. He is coming out and he is doing the work of a madman. He is doing the work of what all people that want big government always do and that commit terrorist acts. They want to destroy a government so they can put another one in that they like,' Glenn said. 'The terrorist who committed these horrible actions has extensively written fringe and extremist government ideas.'

'This guy walked onto this island with a firearm. No one else had one. No one could stop him,' Glenn said.

'These kids were swimming across the lake trying to get help. Neighbors were coming and getting in their boats and going and rowing across the water to be able to grab these kids out. This guy was an absolute and total monster. A monster.'

I guess that's WHY we ask for quotes and links instead of taking someone's word for posting out of context remarks with their own style of spin applied ..

[EvilDrSomkid]

We are going a little off topic here, but our dear Glenn Beck organizes his own political indoctrination camps. Even CNN thought it was a bit off for him to liken a socialist indoctrination camp to a Hitler Jugend camp.

What I think will happen in Norway after this, will be the exact opposite to what ABB wants.

They will be a crackdown on any ideas or political activity that even remotely resembles what ABB advocated.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. Discussion of the corrupted American political problems would be a different topic altogether.

[remiss]

I read today that he was on MI5's watch list for buying a large amount of chemical online from a Polish supplier.

By all accounts, he is quite intelligent.

Actually, according to the PST (Police security service) he had bought chemicals for a whopping 14GBP. Approximately 60 norwegians had bought chemicals from said Polish website.

Btw, according to some recent interview he enjoyed killing ants as a kid and that he never had any girlfriends.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080816

If you want to hold hands:

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/lenke.php

[remiss]

..

What I think will happen in Norway after this, will be the exact opposite to what ABB wants.

They will be a crackdown on any ideas or political activity that even remotely resembles what ABB advocated.

+1

I hope and believe as you say that this will result in the opposite of what he would want. We need to be even more including and accepting of multi-culture and democratic.

[BabySun]

Among the oddities I find in the news reports is a car bomb with a trunk full of explosives could not do any where near that much damage. The blast has been reported to be equal to 20 tons of explosives. A car trunk, like the one pictured, could not even hold 1% of that amount.

TNT Equivalent

If he had used TNT, he would have had to move 20 tons (which would have been very hard for him to do).

Choosing an explosive with a higher energy density, he was able to get by with a smaller vehicle.

That's why a Megaton nuclear warhead doesn't weigh one million tons (an amazing rocket that would be!).

The police states in an article the bomb must have been minimum 1100 pounds heavy.

That is about 5-6 barrels.

Seems like it was a mini van used.

He had grand plans but - he was in a hurry:first it was 3 tons,reduced to 2 tons,but finally he finished with 100kg bomb,which produced big bang but small or no crater.

Some journos were talking about suitcase nuke bomb! - little bit of exaggeration I am afraid?

My point: it was just 100kg according to police experts.Have you heard hand grenade exploding on city street?

Edited July 26, 2011 by BabySun

[remiss]

I read today that he was on MI5's watch list for buying a large amount of chemical online from a Polish supplier.

By all accounts, he is quite intelligent.

Actually, according to the PST (Police security service) he had bought chemicals for a whopping 14GBP. Approximately 60 norwegians had bought chemicals from said Polish website.

Correcting myself here; according to his manifesto he has ordered 150kg of aluminum powder from that website.Also seems like some polish people may have been involved (though not the person with the website) -- supposedly somebody had posted in polish that there would be an explosion in Oslo on the 22. before it happened.

[koheesti]

..

What I think will happen in Norway after this, will be the exact opposite to what ABB wants.

They will be a crackdown on any ideas or political activity that even remotely resembles what ABB advocated.

+1

I hope and believe as you say that this will result in the opposite of what he would want. We need to be even more including and accepting of multi-culture and democratic.

Multi-culturalism is more exclusive than inclusive. It's not about the "melting pot" that was once America where people came from all over to join together into one language/culture/society. It is more about each group having enclaves of their own cultures/customs even laws.

Also, being more democratic (as in people voting) would probably result in a lot of immigrants/refugees getting kicked out of many countries.

[Steely Dan]

..

What I think will happen in Norway after this, will be the exact opposite to what ABB wants.

They will be a crackdown on any ideas or political activity that even remotely resembles what ABB advocated.

+1

I hope and believe as you say that this will result in the opposite of what he would want. We need to be even more including and accepting of multi-culture and democratic.

Multi-culturalism is more exclusive than inclusive. It's not about the "melting pot" that was once America where people came from all over to join together into one language/culture/society. It is more about each group having enclaves of their own cultures/customs even laws.

Also, being more democratic (as in people voting) would probably result in a lot of immigrants/refugees getting kicked out of many countries.

Exactly, enclaves which become no go zones for others. Look up what's happening in Tower Hamlets where groups of Islamist thugs put up stickers telling gays to keep out and even raided a pub where gay people congregated assaulting those inside.

[EvilDrSomkid]

..

What I think will happen in Norway after this, will be the exact opposite to what ABB wants.

They will be a crackdown on any ideas or political activity that even remotely resembles what ABB advocated.

+1

I hope and believe as you say that this will result in the opposite of what he would want. We need to be even more including and accepting of multi-culture and democratic.

Multi-culturalism is more exclusive than inclusive. It's not about the "melting pot" that was once America where people came from all over to join together into one language/culture/society. It is more about each group having enclaves of their own cultures/customs even laws.

Also, being more democratic (as in people voting) would probably result in a lot of immigrants/refugees getting kicked out of many countries.

That is not quite correct. You are referring to the results of multiculturalism, not its desired outcome.

The enclaves are a result of the various ethnic/cultural groups wanting to band together, but that is not what the promoters of multiculturalism wish for.

Being more democratic would actually allow more immigrants in. It is what is happening now.

[Steely Dan]

Here is what I was referring to before with certain 'journalists' slandering other people implying they are to blame for this atrocity, such opportunism is disgusting when it is clearly without any basis whatsoever.

Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens get it in the neck for being 'a secular fundamentalists' when Breivik is characterized by others as a Christian fundamentalist. Here is Sam Harris commenting on the matter.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/response-to-chris-hedges/

Over at Truthdig, the celebrated journalist Chris Hedges has discovered that Christopher Hitchens and I are actually racists with a fondness for genocide. He has broken this story before—many times, in fact—but in his most recent essay he blames “secular fundamentalists” like me and Hitch for the recent terrorist atrocities in Norway.

Very nice.

[remiss]

..

What I think will happen in Norway after this, will be the exact opposite to what ABB wants.

They will be a crackdown on any ideas or political activity that even remotely resembles what ABB advocated.

+1

I hope and believe as you say that this will result in the opposite of what he would want. We need to be even more including and accepting of multi-culture and democratic.

Multi-culturalism is more exclusive than inclusive. It's not about the "melting pot" that was once America where people came from all over to join together into one language/culture/society. It is more about each group having enclaves of their own cultures/customs even laws.

Also, being more democratic (as in people voting) would probably result in a lot of immigrants/refugees getting kicked out of many countries.

Exactly, enclaves which become no go zones for others. Look up what's happening in Tower Hamlets where groups of Islamist thugs put up stickers telling gays to keep out and even raided a pub where gay people congregated assaulting those inside.

Different cultures do different things. I am pretty sure not all of you have become buddhists, speak thai and do everything the thai way (for those of you that live in thailand). The same way as in my opinion people should be able to do and believe what they want as long as it's within the legal framework in the country and that they integrate and interact with the rest of the community.

Some western expats probably fail miserably themselves at the same thing they complain about "happening to the west". I for one welcome a smaller world where one can have ones opinions, religious believes and whatever sexual preference no matter what country one might be in.

Regarding assaulting gay people; a gay couple was attacked by I think it was a muslim in Oslo a couple of years ago, and they moved the gay pride parade to start in that area instead. Which has worked out great by the way...

I don't think I shall say much more except that all of us needs to show more acceptance and understanding of other people.

Edited July 27, 2011 by remiss

[koheesti]

Different cultures do different things. I am pretty sure not all of you have become buddhists, speak thai and do everything the thai way (for those of you that live in thailand). The same way as in my opinion people should be able to do and believe what they want as long as it's within the legal framework in the country and that they integrate and interact with the rest of the community.

Some western expats probably fail miserably themselves at the same thing they complain about "happening to the west". I for one welcome a smaller world where one can have ones opinions, religious believes and whatever sexual preference no matter what country one might be in.

I can't speak for the others but I don't live in Thailand full-time. When I am there, the main language used is English (on Koh Samui, most Thais speak it well enough for that's what their customers speak). I don't force my language, religion (if I had one) or culture on the local population or anyone else. When in Thailand I am not taking money from Thais or their government either. So my situation isn't the type of multiculturalism that set this ABB nutjob off. He might never have done what he did if the immigrants and their supporters in the Labour Party with whom he took exception to weren't (in his mind) trying to wipe out Norwegian/European culture.

I don't think I shall say much more except that all of us needs to show more acceptance and understanding of other people.

It is amazingly ironic that many people who preach this rarely practice it in their own lives. Not saying you specifically don't because I don't know you at all. I could give examples but that would be taking this way off topic.Suffice to say that if you disagree with some self-proclaimed progressive people then you must be an evil bigot or racist. NOT a very tolerant view to hold of someone who simply doesn't see the world your way.

Edited July 27, 2011 by koheesti

[geriatrickid]

It would be nice if there was acceptance and tolerance of the cultures and religions practiced by Christians, Jews, and secularists. It seems to me that when the blame game is played, it's always "whitey's" fault. Acts of terror and mass murder are not acceptable acts from anyone regardless of race, colour, creed etc. The killer was obviously deranged. There is no point in attaching convoluted theories of integration, multiculturalism or in pontificating upon immigration policy. This man was a nutter and the issue of immigrants was something he latched onto. Had, he undertaken the killings based upon Norway's ongoing and unethical slaughter of endangered whales, the emphasis would be on "evil" environmental groups. The man was deranged. What he did was wrong. End of story.

[EvilDrSomkid]

Suffice to say that if you disagree with some self-proclaimed progressive people then you must be an evil bigot or racist. NOT a very tolerant view to hold of someone who simply doesn't see the world your way.

That is completely and exactly spot on. This is the case in Europe, right now.

However, not a reason to go out and kill people because of it.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't think I shall say much more except that all of us needs to show more acceptance and understanding of other people.

It is amazingly ironic that many people who preach this rarely practice it in their own lives.

That is for sure. So many supposed "peacenics" are really full of hate.

[Ulysses G.]

It would be nice if there was acceptance and tolerance of the cultures and religions practiced by Christians, Jews, and secularists. It seems to me that when the blame game is played, it's always "whitey's" fault. Acts of terror and mass murder are not acceptable acts from anyone regardless of race, colour, creed etc. The killer was obviously deranged. There is no point in attaching convoluted theories of integration, multiculturalism or in pontificating upon immigration policy. This man was a nutter and the issue of immigrants was something he latched onto. Had, he undertaken the killings based upon Norway's ongoing and unethical slaughter of endangered whales, the emphasis would be on "evil" environmental groups. The man was deranged. What he did was wrong. End of story.

You are correct once again. He is a lunatic and that is it in a nutshell.

[remiss]

Different cultures do different things. I am pretty sure not all of you have become buddhists, speak thai and do everything the thai way (for those of you that live in thailand). The same way as in my opinion people should be able to do and believe what they want as long as it's within the legal framework in the country and that they integrate and interact with the rest of the community.

Some western expats probably fail miserably themselves at the same thing they complain about "happening to the west". I for one welcome a smaller world where one can have ones opinions, religious believes and whatever sexual preference no matter what country one might be in.

I can't speak for the others but I don't live in Thailand full-time. When I am there, the main language used is English (on Koh Samui, most Thais speak it well enough for that's what their customers speak). I don't force my language, religion (if I had one) or culture on the local population or anyone else. When in Thailand I am not taking money from Thais or their government either. So my situation isn't the type of multiculturalism that set this ABB nutjob off. He might never have done what he did if the immigrants and their supporters in the Labour Party with whom he took exception to weren't (in his mind) trying to wipe out Norwegian/European culture.

I don't think I shall say much more except that all of us needs to show more acceptance and understanding of other people.

It is amazingly ironic that many people who preach this rarely practice it in their own lives. Not saying you specifically don't because I don't know you at all. I could give examples but that would be taking this way off topic.Suffice to say that if you disagree with some self-proclaimed progressive people then you must be an evil bigot or racist. NOT a very tolerant view to hold of someone who simply doesn't see the world your way.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying. Are you calling me and evil bigot and/or racist? If so I strongly take offense to that. And if you do I think you should explain yourself.

My point is that what he and some other right wing extremists want is for other people to get out or integrate completely. That doesn't quite form well with the "I'm in thailand and not going to learn thai" theory (not saying that you have those opinions, but it is what I understand from your somewhat unclear post, please correct me).

And as far as I have heard ABBs hatred has had nothing to do with money, but islam and muslims.

Please try to clarify what you are saying, I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me that we should accept other cultures or that you mean muslims should stay out of europe.. If it's the latter I am actually quite appalled.