Phuket Pirates Plea For Sympathy, Assert Right To Sell Illegal Goods

[tominbkk]

It's okay to sell illegal foreign goods as it foreign companies who suffer. (but they are rich and powerful and Thai people are poor, meek and humble so that makes it acceptable, right? ) But. OMG see the seething anger and resentment when foreigners try to copy and make a profit from Thai stuff. I remember the fury when US companies tried to create their own version of Hom Mali Rice.

Thais a few years ago were trying to put an intl patent on "Thai food", saying that they would be in charge of all Thai food cooked in the world, so that it could be to their standard...haha.

This whole thing is really stinky. Howabout if I wanted to join their group, and was a mugger. i would be stealing from people, and then reselling their shit. Same thing, right?

[Richard4849]

Boo-<deleted>'-hoo

[Colabamumbai]

Employing illegal migrants, selling illegal merchandise, paying bribe money, and how many of these shops belong to non Thais, like Indians and others.

[exbelg]

so funny, the illegal sales people doing their business for over 20 years protest because they cannot sell their illegal crap anymore, after they stopped paying bribes to the police chief

SOOOOOOOOOOOO THAILAND

yeah, thai people love corruption... who did get better from all of this ? the pirates and the police's mercedes, bmw, villa by the beach ...

[eezergood]

blame the farang!

[jonclark]

blame the farang!

Totally agree - They buy the stuff after all and keep the illegal sales going. Without them there would be nothing illegal going on. lol

[ScubaBuddha]

I kind of see both sides here. The only profits turned by the motion picture industry is from DVD/On Demand etc. However, I have always thought it was a bit harsh to enforce copyright laws such as these in developing and 3rd world countries which amount to an insignificant portion of profits anyway. Hollywood and the record industry should write it off as charity and double their efforts at shutting torrent sites if they want to put a dent in piracy.

What about the clothing and textile industry, perfumes, and watches? The simple truth is that pirated goods are produced by and support usually large scale criminal organizations, which have their fingers in many pies (human trafficking, extortion, racketeering and drugs) If you buy pirated goods you support those gangs. Not the shop owner.

I agree with your point. It's the number one reason why I am against drug use in America. It's fueling the massive drug wars going on along the US/Mexican boarder and we act like it's a Mexican problem. It's getting to Darfur levels. Entire police departments have been assassinated. Mass graves are uncovered on a weekly bases.

However, there are a couple things that need to be understood here.

Firstly, the pirated goods you speak of, certainly in the case of the textiles, are usually made in the same Thai/Vietnamese/Chinese/Taiwanese/Filipino factories that are licensed to make them. This is well documented. It occurs in more or less one of two ways. There are factory seconds that don't pass QC and are sold "out the back door". Or, the factory managers will intentionally order excess raw material, the cost of which is passed on to the parent company who placed the order. Once the order is filled, the excess is used to make "fakes" that may be as good and "real" as the authentic item.

To clear up another misconception, the DVD's are actually made locally in the homes of the "pirates" with consumer available technology as previous arrests and seizures of computers and blank DVD's show.

The point being, the "simple truth" as you put it, is that many of these ventures can be individual small time/family operations.

Second, as you correctly stated, large scale criminal organizations (add the police to that) have their fingers in many pies, but many of those are from legitimate businesses. In almost any major money making venture in Thailand, especially Phuket and other tourist areas, some of your money goes in some form to corrupt officials and/or mafia. It's not just DVD's and fake Prada. You patronize them just about any time you open your wallet in Thailand, especially Phuket. So remember that next time you take a tuk tuk ride or an airport taxi (They are the worst).

Sadly, the "simple truth" is the MPAA, RAC, and RIAA are now paying more than the pirates. (backed by increasing international pressure from intellectual property treaties/agreements)

Edited July 24, 2011 by ScubaBuddha

[ScubaBuddha]

I kind of see both sides here. The only profits turned by the motion picture industry is from DVD/On Demand etc. However, I have always thought it was a bit harsh to enforce copyright laws such as these in developing and 3rd world countries which amount to an insignificant portion of profits anyway. Hollywood and the record industry should write it off as charity and double their efforts at shutting torrent sites if they want to put a dent in piracy.

Indeed, if you consider that in USA you can sign up for unlimited streaming of movies through companies like Netflix for $8 usd/month the prices they expect people in Thailand to pay for movies seem more than a little unfair.

But, Netflix and other similar services have release dates which roughly correspond to DVD release dates. (Unless you want to pay for the new very expensive service which allows you to stream a movie to your house the day it is released in theaters. The equipment is end to end encrypted/un-copyable and only costs $8000, and each movie is many times a normal rental rate) You can often buy DVD quality movies on the street before they are released in theaters anywhere. If there is a torrent for it, then you will see it on the streets within 24 hours. "Filmed from cinema" quality is usually available a day or two after release, sometimes before.

Also, Thailand is a secondary, maybe a tertiary market, so not much money is expected to be made from DVD sales, despite MPAA, RAC, and RIAA's activity here.

.

Edited July 24, 2011 by ScubaBuddha

[Jayman]

At first I had to laugh at it. At one point they tried to justify it with all the money they are bringing in to the community. They forgot to mention that most of it went in their pocket.

But all that aside it is there way and not likely to change in the foreseeable future.

The really funny part is one of the posters on this thread was complaining a while back that he was having trouble with his unlicensed red bull shirts.

Not only the Thai way of life but quietly being used by farongs to fill there pockets.

Amazing Thailand they come from all over the world to participate in a society they look down on.

TIT :jap:

If you're gonna take the piss on other members of the board at least you can have the common courtesy to post the members nick so that anyone can easily verify that what it is you are saying is true. Oh yeah, I forgot... TIT

[Filadog]

Seems to me the police missed a good opportunity to round up all the offenders. Much easier than raiding the shops and they come with "sign"ed confessions!

[jimbeam1]

which part of illegal they do not understand?:unsure

Being able to buy from an Illegal wholesaler in Pratunam maybe.

Just need to pay the Illegal guy's in brown. Then no problem. Unless of course it is just racist?

jb1

[Skywalker69]

Why you arrest me

I have been robbing condos for 20 years now

I have all me saving invested in break and enter equiptment

"I haven't committed a crime. What I did was fail to comply with the law."

To little tea-money?

[jonclark]

I kind of see both sides here. The only profits turned by the motion picture industry is from DVD/On Demand etc. However, I have always thought it was a bit harsh to enforce copyright laws such as these in developing and 3rd world countries which amount to an insignificant portion of profits anyway. Hollywood and the record industry should write it off as charity and double their efforts at shutting torrent sites if they want to put a dent in piracy.

What about the clothing and textile industry, perfumes, and watches? The simple truth is that pirated goods are produced by and support usually large scale criminal organizations, which have their fingers in many pies (human trafficking, extortion, racketeering and drugs) If you buy pirated goods you support those gangs. Not the shop owner.

I agree with your point. It's the number one reason why I am against drug use in America. It's fueling the massive drug wars going on along the US/Mexican boarder and we act like it's a Mexican problem. It's getting to Darfur levels. Entire police departments have been assassinated. Mass graves are uncovered on a weekly bases.

However, there are a couple things that need to be understood here.

Firstly, the pirated goods you speak of, certainly in the case of the textiles, are usually made in the same Thai/Vietnamese/Chinese/Taiwanese/Filipino factories that are licensed to make them. This is well documented. It occurs in more or less one of two ways. There are factory seconds that don't pass QC and are sold "out the back door". Or, the factory managers will intentionally order excess raw material, the cost of which is passed on to the parent company who placed the order. Once the order is filled, the excess is used to make "fakes" that may be as good and "real" as the authentic item.

To clear up another misconception, the DVD's are actually made locally in the homes of the "pirates" with consumer available technology as previous arrests and seizures of computers and blank DVD's show.

The point being, the "simple truth" as you put it, is that many of these ventures can be individual small time/family operations.

Second, as you correctly stated, large scale criminal organizations (add the police to that) have their fingers in many pies, but many of those are from legitimate businesses. In almost any major money making venture in Thailand, especially Phuket and other tourist areas, some of your money goes in some form to corrupt officials and/or mafia. It's not just DVD's and fake Prada. You patronize them just about any time you open your wallet in Thailand, especially Phuket. So remember that next time you take a tuk tuk ride or an airport taxi (They are the worst).

Sadly, the "simple truth" is the MPAA, RAC, and RIAA are now paying more than the pirates. (backed by increasing international pressure from intellectual property treaties/agreements)

Most of the DVD are not from small family businesses. They are produced en mass on a very large scale. Do you honestly think that given what you have said in your post criminal organisations would allow families to operate these sort of operations on their turf. No! The families or store owners buy the DVDs direct from the gangs. They own the area so they sell the criminals wares.

But I agree with most of what you said.

[softgeorge]

This is a joke right? They want to legally sell the wares they obtained illegally. :cheesy: :cheesy:

[KeyserSoze01]

I kind of see both sides here. The only profits turned by the motion picture industry is from DVD/On Demand etc. However, I have always thought it was a bit harsh to enforce copyright laws such as these in developing and 3rd world countries which amount to an insignificant portion of profits anyway. Hollywood and the record industry should write it off as charity and double their efforts at shutting torrent sites if they want to put a dent in piracy.

I don't see any smilie faces on this post so you must be serious. It has been estimated that there are billions of USD worth of counterfeit goods produced and sold in asia. Particularly China. Hardly insignificant. Perhaps you have been in Thailand too long and have begun to think like a Thai when it comes to what is legal and illegal.

[maidu]

A truly heartbreaking story. I was moved to tears then realised I had to check my download speeds on The Pirate Bay for my movies.

Yet again we see the Royal Thai Police have their priorities. No problems with jet boat scams, tuk-tuk scams etc etc. T.I.T.

I agree. the jet ski scams can continue, because the pay-offs to police are continuing.

As for illegal goods: maybe this will encourage, in a roundabout way, the production of decent creative things from Thailand. Naw, wait a minute, did I say 'production of decent creative things from Thailand' ....... I must have been momentarily hallucinating. sorry.

[Foggy Bottom]

I kind of see both sides here. The only profits turned by the motion picture industry is from DVD/On Demand etc. However, I have always thought it was a bit harsh to enforce copyright laws such as these in developing and 3rd world countries which amount to an insignificant portion of profits anyway. Hollywood and the record industry should write it off as charity and double their efforts at shutting torrent sites if they want to put a dent in piracy.

I don't see any smilie faces on this post so you must be serious. It has been estimated that there are billions of USD worth of counterfeit goods produced and sold in asia. Particularly China. Hardly insignificant. Perhaps you have been in Thailand too long and have begun to think like a Thai when it comes to what is legal and illegal.

In both the UK & US, there is a law ... as I don't know it's correct title or term, let's call it "habitual permission" ... which states basically that if something has been allowed/condoned for X years, then it's continuance is permitted if no law expressly forbids it (i.e. makes it illegal) and is backed up with case history of proven prosecutions. Not that it's got much to do with the price of rice or bootlegging, but thought I'd mention it.

Anyway, the OP has given me the best laugh from Thailand in best part of a decade - I too thought it was from Not the Nation until I saw the credits. Well done Phuket Gazette - brilliant reportage and just the tonic many of us needed after the election results.

[ginjag]

Oh man this is funny.

5555555555555555555 This is a big shock to hear about something happening in our paradise Island.

5000 bht a day for 20 years mmmnnn not bad =greedy sods -I would have retired long ago with cash like that.

Why not the crackdown at the outlets in BKK where the people buy the copies from, AAAHHHH but that may tread on some big wigs toes in the capitol. Phuket the HUB of pirates .

[TAWP]

While the concept of IP is wrong and oppressive it is also clear that one cannot break laws and complain when they are enforced. A smidgeon of TiT...

Work to have the laws changed or don't engage in the activities that make legal problems for you...

[moe666]

Yes amazing posters complaining about Thailand but keep coming and or living here.

[ginjag]

Yes amazing posters complaining about Thailand but keep coming and or living here.

Did you read the thread, ??????????????? it was Thai's that are the ones complaining for starters, and most posters thought people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, we were commenting and replying to the topic. NOT as you put it, anyway why didn't you give an honest opinion on the subject rather than bash other peoples opinions, or is this your way of posting farrang bashing. I commented honestly on the topic, just how I felt.

Most posters are or do try to keep on topic, so why don't you have your say (on the subject)

[Bagwan]

Yes amazing posters complaining about Thailand but keep coming and or living here.

So, we're all supposed to be smug and complacent then - or more Thai than Thais? We'd all still be living in caves and painting ourselves blue unless some had complained and thought of better ways of doing things. Read a history book or three and learn about the folks who emigrated to the US and other places and then decided to make a few changes to the status quo.

BTW you forgot to tell those who take an interest in Thailand and want to see the country make progress that if they don't like the ways things are done here, to go home.

[ScubaBuddha]

I kind of see both sides here. The only profits turned by the motion picture industry is from DVD/On Demand etc. However, I have always thought it was a bit harsh to enforce copyright laws such as these in developing and 3rd world countries which amount to an insignificant portion of profits anyway. Hollywood and the record industry should write it off as charity and double their efforts at shutting torrent sites if they want to put a dent in piracy.

What about the clothing and textile industry, perfumes, and watches? The simple truth is that pirated goods are produced by and support usually large scale criminal organizations, which have their fingers in many pies (human trafficking, extortion, racketeering and drugs) If you buy pirated goods you support those gangs. Not the shop owner.

I agree with your point. It's the number one reason why I am against drug use in America. It's fueling the massive drug wars going on along the US/Mexican boarder and we act like it's a Mexican problem. It's getting to Darfur levels. Entire police departments have been assassinated. Mass graves are uncovered on a weekly bases.

However, there are a couple things that need to be understood here.

Firstly, the pirated goods you speak of, certainly in the case of the textiles, are usually made in the same Thai/Vietnamese/Chinese/Taiwanese/Filipino factories that are licensed to make them. This is well documented. It occurs in more or less one of two ways. There are factory seconds that don't pass QC and are sold "out the back door". Or, the factory managers will intentionally order excess raw material, the cost of which is passed on to the parent company who placed the order. Once the order is filled, the excess is used to make "fakes" that may be as good and "real" as the authentic item.

To clear up another misconception, the DVD's are actually made locally in the homes of the "pirates" with consumer available technology as previous arrests and seizures of computers and blank DVD's show.

The point being, the "simple truth" as you put it, is that many of these ventures can be individual small time/family operations.

Second, as you correctly stated, large scale criminal organizations (add the police to that) have their fingers in many pies, but many of those are from legitimate businesses. In almost any major money making venture in Thailand, especially Phuket and other tourist areas, some of your money goes in some form to corrupt officials and/or mafia. It's not just DVD's and fake Prada. You patronize them just about any time you open your wallet in Thailand, especially Phuket. So remember that next time you take a tuk tuk ride or an airport taxi (They are the worst).

Sadly, the "simple truth" is the MPAA, RAC, and RIAA are now paying more than the pirates. (backed by increasing international pressure from intellectual property treaties/agreements)

Most of the DVD are not from small family businesses. They are produced en mass on a very large scale. Do you honestly think that given what you have said in your post criminal organisations would allow families to operate these sort of operations on their turf. No! The families or store owners buy the DVDs direct from the gangs. They own the area so they sell the criminals wares.

But I agree with most of what you said.

I agree they probably are also produced large scale, yet there was the story from a year ago or so that reported the police seized computers, blank DVD's etc. from the Phuket Town home of the family that owned some shops. At least it was being reported that the DVD's were being burned there. The family complained then also about the raids. Members of this same family had been arrested multiple times for this, but the fine is very small so no real incentive to quit.

[Puccini]

From this other news topic:

Nearly two-thirds of all Thais (64.5 per cent) believe corruption is acceptable if [it] benefits the respondents themselves...

From the OP of this topic:

“Actually, this problem started with Karon Subdistrict Chief [Kamnan] Winai Chitchiew collecting money from us and then not being fair to shop operators, so we stopped paying him,” said one shop operator.

The sellers of pirated goods were happy to pay bribes as long as this meant that the police left them undisturbed, ie as long as it benefited them. Now that the police are no longer fair to them, ie are handing out fines, the sellers won't pay bribes any more.

[maidu]

I could make a list as long as my arm, in #10 font - of innovative products which could be produced in Thailand. I don't know if there is even a word in Thai for 'innovative', but how about public workshops where Thais (and farang) could come together and discuss options? Below is a small portion of the many things/services which can't be found in Thailand:

cinder blocks (int'l standard size)

interlocking pre-formed cement slabs for sub-floors (my personal design)

home grown music which doesn't sound like cotton candy topped by whipped cream

tar paper, combination shingles or roll roofing

travel trailers, mobile homes

mechanics' goop

cheap solar panels

climbing equipment/rope. None are made in Asia

peanut butter made entirely from peanuts

salsa without added gunk, just veges.

Thai-produced nature or science videos for TV or DVD

traveling circus (not political promise-making machine)

anything made from giant bamboo sheaves (an interesting material)

home grown hemp products, foods or oils. Other countries do so, why not Thailand?

youth centers - safe places where youngsters can go to learn and have fun.

bulletin boards, real classifieds in newspapers, garage sales, yard sales

non toxic spray for rice fields. Currently, ALL rice in Thailand is sprayed with toxic chemicals. Same for most veges and fruits.

do-it-yourself kits for yurts, geodesic domes, wood heat stoves, tentalos (my design of a tent/bungalo combination)

>>>> Thai vendors don't need to sell pirated goods, as there are a wealth of innovative products and services which could be sold in Thailand, if the vendors could 'think outside the box.'

[BlueSmurf]

I often buy pirated goods.But not for the nane on the cloths but for the quality of the product at such a low price.Now I would still buy the same product even if they did not put the designer label on it.Example would be Lacoste T shirts...

[random]

they will be asked to pay taxes next

[sabai-dee-man]

While the concept of IP is wrong and oppressive it is also clear that one cannot break laws and complain when they are enforced. A smidgeon of TiT...

You've obviously never created anything of any value and subsequently had it copied, or your expertise exploited.

I have, and it's not pleasant.

My skills, earned and developed over many years, often at at great personal expense, are not for others to exploit without recours.

[TAWP]

While the concept of IP is wrong and oppressive it is also clear that one cannot break laws and complain when they are enforced. A smidgeon of TiT...

You've obviously never created anything of any value and subsequently had it copied, or your expertise exploited.

I have, and it's not pleasant.

My skills, earned and developed over many years, often at at great personal expense, are not for others to exploit without recours.

I hope you survived your ordeal. Did it hurt much? Did you have to starve?

In other news, read this article:

When Patents Attack

/../

The influential blog Techdirt regularly refers to Intellectual Ventures as a patent troll. IPWatchdog, an intellectual property site, called IV "patent troll public enemy #1." These blogs write about how Intellectual Ventures has amassed one of the largest patent portfolios in existence and is going around to technology companies demanding money to license these patents.

Patents are a big deal in the software industry right now. Lawsuits are proliferating. Big technology companies are spending billions of dollars to buy up huge patent portfolios in order to defend themselves. Computer programmers say patents are hindering innovation.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/22/138576167/when-patents-attack

[looping]

“Actually, this problem started with Karon Subdistrict Chief [Kamnan] Winai Chitchiew collecting money from us and then not being fair to shop operators, so we stopped paying him,” said one shop operator.

Then this will teach you from now on to pay your protection money to the mafia police whether you think it is fair or not. You should be thankful all they are doing is closing your shops rather than breaking your kneecaps.

Yes I laughed out loud when I got to this point in the article. The problem started when they stopped paying the police... they couldn't predict this scenario and now they're protesting, saying that they've been unfairly treated... like so many articles on tv this is laughable, sorry to say at the expense of the Thais.

This attitude reminds me of when a friend of mine moved into a suburb of BKK: Some local guy demanded a fight with him. When my friend dodged his punches and then landed a couple on the Thai guy, the Thai guy started to cry like a baby and demanded a 'free punch' because he was losing. Just laughable!

May I suggest the following measure: They could start paying the police again and put up with their attitude, which, considering these people are earning a whopping 5000 baht per day is probably only a slight inconvenience... or go fishing and earn an honest days pay... give me strength!