Discussion At Immigration Today

[Zammo]

[7by7]

you have some neck saying things like that when you stem from a country that gives passports to the bombers who killed innocent people in the 7/7 bombings in london.

please don't paint all British Muslims the same as those responsible for the atrocity of July 7th 2005.

Where does Ken paint all British Muslims with the responsibility of 7/7?

Where do I say that he does?

Up to you, but I suggest you take my posts in their entirety (as Ken, from his response, has done) rather than taking one sentence or phrase out of context to criticise.

[WarpSpeed]

...

...

At any rate let me educate you just a bit; The title of "Americans" bestowed upon us was done so a few centuries ago when we fought a little war referred to as the "American War of Independence" AKA "American Revolutionary War" (in both cases the operative word in the title is "American") in which the final outcome was our Independence from English rule and birthed a new nation from that point to be OFFICIALLY referred to by the world wide official diplomatic community as the United States of AMERICA from which came the citizens of that country being referred to as "Americans" in much the same way the Canadian citizens are referred to as Canadians, Mexico, Panama, Germany, Britain, et al... Is that elementary enough for you to understand now??

...

...

...

Anyhow that's the end of this debate for me, my point is valid and anymore discussion is just redundant and pedantic..

Why do we bother?

Is illiteracy such a problem?

Independence from the United Kingdom of Great Britain (and Ireland? - not sure of the title at the time), often abbreviated to the UK, or Britain, and generally as an adjective "British".

The 'War of Independence' was fought by on one side, the British forces of the Crown, and on the other side, the British settlers who wanted to set up an independent republic.

SC

If you're attempting to correct my reference to English rule as in not titling it British rule then it's a moot point as it was all ruled by the English monarchy who finally consolidated their own through force to form the UK so you shouldn't bother as it's therefore merely semantics, so remind me again what point are you attempting to make here?

But was there not a French presence in the American Revolutionary War?? A necessary and timely intervention on their part if not conveniently dismissed and overlooked by our British cousins ...

Edited August 3, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Orac]

On the topic of being British, a story from when some of you were young:

"In 1951 his form got him an international call-up for Great Britain against New Zealand.

The Daily Herald produced the now scarcely believable headline "Hunslet's darkie one of Britain's heroes".

From: 'Unparalleled' story of black rugby star Cec Thompson

"Theodore Cecil Thompson was born in 1926 in County Durham, where his mother came from. His Trinidadian father was working in Leeds but died before his son was born. He went on to serve with the Royal Navy during World War II.He was working in Leeds after the war when he tried rugby league for the first time with a works team. Within just a few games he had signed as a professional for Hunslet, his local team."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-14252055

SC

Can I add another quote from another famous Cecil, Rhodes in this case, which seems apposite to this thread:

Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life.

though maybe we should brush this one under the carpet:

We must find new lands from which we can easily obtain raw materials and at the same time exploit the cheap slave labor that is available from the natives of the colonies. The colonies would also provide a dumping ground for the surplus goods produced in our factories.

[7by7]

But was there not a French presence in the American Revolutionary War?? A necessary and timely intervention on their part if not conveniently dismissed and overlooked by our British cousins ...

Far from it. When I was taught this at school the help from the French was certainly not overlooked. As you say, it was a necessary and timely intervention for the colonials and the result of the war could have been different without it.

Something often overlooked by our American cousins!

Not that the French were interested in the cause; they merely wanted to keep the British busy while they expanded their empire, both in North America and Europe.

[tw25rw]

Well, make me aware of it then, unless you mean that league crew, but Union is THE Rugby game in my opinion

Union is the massively inferior game in my opinion, but that's off topic..

I've always though of the union Lions as being the British Lions, though British and Irish is correct..

Personally I have no time for this English/Scottish/Welsh nationalist crap. When it's football, fair enough, but no good will come from devolution.

[rott]

(from rott)

Ken is that why you didn't bother to learn the English language? And I do not believe that most Northern Ireland ''residence'' (sic) are applying for Irish passports, in fact there were reports in the press recently that your mate McGuinness was advising all Irish people to apply for British passports. Unfortunately I did not read the full story.

hey rott

why is it then that a lot of the EU come to ireland to learn english. its a well know that irish speak better english than the english.

and by what are you implying your mate McGuinness. i've no connection to any of them scum. you have some neck saying things like that when you stem from a country that gives passports to the bombers who killed innocent people in the 7/7 bombings in london.

don't paint everyone with the same brush. i had the right to respond to the OP and others for suggesting that ireland was part of britan.

i have no problem at all with english.i have brothers and sister in law from england who i love. but when they travel they say they sometimes are ashamed to say were they are from because of some of the same things we have read in these posts. in fact i have shown them this topic as they sit beside me and they agree,

anyway what a provocative topic to post

Yo Ken,

I know a number of Spanish people who have sent their children to Ireland to learn English because it is a Roman Catholic country. I suspect they are not the only ones, so perhaps this accounts for some of them at least. But it is definitely news to me that Irish people speak better English than the English do. (Were you being ironic when you said that?)

Do you think it would be fair for Ireland to pay some form of commission or royalties to the UK on this, after all it is our language.

Ref McGuinness the point was that he was advising Irish citizens to apply for British passports, though as I said I do not know the full story.

Provocative? Well who started it?

Edited August 3, 2011 by rott

[smokie36]

Well, make me aware of it then, unless you mean that league crew, but Union is THE Rugby game in my opinion

Union is the massively inferior game in my opinion, but that's off topic..

I've always though of the union Lions as being the British Lions, though British and Irish is correct..

Personally I have no time for this English/Scottish/Welsh nationalist crap. When it's football, fair enough, but no good will come from devolution.

As a Scot who's lived a large part of life in England I disagree. We have a different outlook on life to our neighbours and that's being reflected in the decisions made by our devolved government.

Tuition fees hospital car parking and our attitude to local government taxation being clear examples. Independence will see many more changes I believe but it stems not from a more socialist view but rather the old clan system of allowing the strongest to lead...not necessarily the nepotism which is more prevalent in the English system.

[tigermonkey]

"un-enlightened" ?? -- that word is a slap in the face to the rest of us who live in the rest of America , from Ellesmere Island to Ushuala. It is only the expansive ego of the USA that causes its people to be called Americans to the exclusion of all others who live in the Americas. Personally, I prefer the term Statians. The original term Columbians was equally confusing.

Are you by any chance from the USA ? -- or merely the product of years of Statian propaganda ?

Personally I am a British American - a citizen of Canada, where many are still proud to be British and are happy that the Queen is our head of state. However, I am prejudiced ( and perhaps prone to confusion) since I was born English.

Hmm I hear a lot of envy in your post little brother.....

Congratulations on being a Canuck then, end of...... Bottom line, no matter how much you wish to protest and stomp your feet in a childish tantrum ans would like to change the world to suit your definition of it, you're still referred to as Canadian and we, YES "WE" as in "Americans" from the US are the only "Americans" in the America's by official world wide title..

I accept your congratulations on becoming a "Canuck" -- I did that in 1995 and decided to forego my United Staes citizenship at that time ( born in England and grew up in VIrginia). There is absolutely no "envy" on my part !

"official world title " -- WOW !! -- very impressive, but can I ask who issued this title? I will grant you that the term "American" is most freqeuntly used for Statians in the English language ( and its many dialects), but this is not so in other languages, and the majority of the world speak other languages.

Just an aside. I was an expat for a while in China, and the English speaking expats there usually refer to those from the United States as "USians" - strange.

Ummm I didn't say "official world title" I said "official world wide 'title' " and in the context of an entire sentence. Pedantic I know but it is a significant difference in meaning due to wording so please, if you're going to quote me in the future do so responsibly and accurately and avoid inaccurate paraphrasing..

You're very bitter for a former "American" it most definitely comes off as someone who has a deep seated grudge and envy, maybe it's generational? What happened, your welfare was cut off or something?? You sound like one of those "Americans" we're all too happy to see leave and that's fine, not everyone is cut out to be an "American" we're cut from special cloth. You did the right thing by doing so if you were so seriously insecure and unhappy with being accepted into the arms of our community, or maybe you weren't and that is the cause of the chip on your shoulder.

At any rate let me educate you just a bit; The title of "Americans" bestowed upon us was done so a few centuries ago when we fought a little war referred to as the "American War of Independence" AKA "American Revolutionary War" (in both cases the operative word in the title is "American") in which the final outcome was our Independence from English rule and birthed a new nation from that point to be OFFICIALLY referred to by the world wide official diplomatic community as the United States of AMERICA from which came the citizens of that country being referred to as "Americans" in much the same way the Canadian citizens are referred to as Canadians, Mexico, Panama, Germany, Britain, et al... Is that elementary enough for you to understand now??

There are many wars of independence titled "Latin American Wars for Independence" referring to south South America but none of their citizens are referred to as "Americans" but rather the country of their origin I.E. Brazil, Argentina, Columbia, et al and there is no other such conflicts or titles of independence in north America either, only referring to the names of the country of origin.

The majority of the world speak other languages then English do they?? Maybe combined, but not universally and singularly, English is only bested by 2 others depending on which source you use and often comes in at #2 but universally and not surprisingly Mandarin Chinese is #1 (with 1.3 billion people no wonder and that's just in China) and Spanish so obviously that comment is extraordinarily untrue and irrelevant to the official world wide title of being an American from the United States of America. Here they call us all farang but that isn't any relation what-so-ever to anyone's nationality so I could really care less how OTHER minority "languages" refer to us..

USians ?? A few more bitter people of envious nationality like yourself no doubt.. So, in essence you can stomp your feet and throw out all the derogatory terms for "Americans" that you wish referred to us but bottom line is that it is the officially recognized title of citizens of the USA and always will be so you may as well come to terms with it and not stress so much over something you will never change ..

Anyhow that's the end of this debate for me, my point is valid and anymore discussion is just redundant and pedantic..

Thank you for such an excellent comprehensive reply. I laughed until tears streamed down my face.

I shall take your point and and rename your country " United States IS America"

Edited August 3, 2011 by tigermonkey

[lannarebirth]

Ah, but putting "American" could get confused with those folks from the northern cold counties, or even those from the southern locals. Better to just state "USA."

Reckon about everything north of Panama might be considered "American" by some people.

Mac

Only un-enlightened people would consider it that as only "Americans" from the USA are referred to as Americans all others are referred to by their country's national identity I.E. Brazil= Brazilians, Canada= Canadians, Mexico= Mexicans and so on...

Actually, "Mexicans" refer to their country as El País or la República not Mexico, except when talking internationally or in newspapers. At home, when they say Mexico, they are referring to Mexico City, and they DO refer to themselves as Americans. (Ha, ha, yes, even the illegals).

Complicated can of worms, isn't it?

They must have taken that from the British doctrine of country reference (or is it the UK)? ..

JFYI I went to school in San Diego and also lived a stint in Tucson Arizona and Texas and there they all referred to themselves the way we referred to them which was as Mexicans..

f course they call themselves Mexicans as they are from the Estados Unidos De Mexico (United States Of Mexico). Just like only people who are from the United States of America may justifiably claim their nationality as American. All other residents in the continents of North America and South America have their own nationalities to claim. They never ever claim their nationality as American. I'm not sure why so many Brits are confused by that.

[smokie36]

I love that this is devolving into two threads within one. As it should...maybe three even.

[Moonrakers]

I'm not sure why so many Brits are confused by that.

Wot you talking about Wilis?

[WarpSpeed]

Only un-enlightened people would consider it that as only "Americans" from the USA are referred to as Americans all others are referred to by their country's national identity I.E. Brazil= Brazilians, Canada= Canadians, Mexico= Mexicans and so on...

Actually, "Mexicans" refer to their country as El País or la República not Mexico, except when talking internationally or in newspapers. At home, when they say Mexico, they are referring to Mexico City, and they DO refer to themselves as Americans. (Ha, ha, yes, even the illegals).

Complicated can of worms, isn't it?

They must have taken that from the British doctrine of country reference (or is it the UK)? ..

JFYI I went to school in San Diego and also lived a stint in Tucson Arizona and Texas and there they all referred to themselves the way we referred to them which was as Mexicans..

f course they call themselves Mexicans as they are from the Estados Unidos De Mexico (United States Of Mexico). Just like only people who are from the United States of America may justifiably claim their nationality as American. All other residents in the continents of North America and South America have their own nationalities to claim. They never ever claim their nationality as American. I'm not sure why so many Brits are confused by that.

Not just confusion but outright resentment as if it somehow effects them, it's more Canadian indignation though as if it somehow effects them strangely enough. When you read further along you'll see that I've just concluded a debate with a frustrated and confused former citizen of said country who was also an "American" before forsaking that privilege so many around the world pine for and is now lost somewhere in Canada and he still doesn't understand it's simplicity.. You see it's too simple unlike the electrics on any British made car in the past for example and just like their own convoluted system of British, UK, Wales is not English and Scotland is part of...Yada yada yada, oh! and let's not forget that Nortern Ireland.................. Oh, never mind ...

Edited August 3, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

I love that this is devolving into two threads within one. As it should...maybe three even.

That's real life and how conversations in groups work, one discussion brings up another one and conversation flows and evolves ....

Edited August 3, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Moonrakers]

f course they call themselves Mexicans as they are from the Estados Unidos De Mexico (United States Of Mexico). Just like only people who are from the United States of America may justifiably claim their nationality as American. All other residents in the continents of North America and South America have their own nationalities to claim. They never ever claim their nationality as American. I'm not sure why so many Brits are confused by that.

When you read further along you'll see that I've just concluded a debate with a frustrated and confused former citizen of said country who was also an "American" before forsaking that privilege so many around the world pine for and is now lost somewhere in Canada and he still doesn't understand it's simplicity.. You see it's too simple unlike the electrics on any British made car in the past for example and just like their own convoluted system of British, UK, Wales is not English and Scotland is part of...Yada yada yada, oh! and let's not forget that Nortern Ireland.................. Oh, never mind ...

Stop there, both of you

Name one Brit who has gotten involved in the America/American argument.

[WarpSpeed]

f course they call themselves Mexicans as they are from the Estados Unidos De Mexico (United States Of Mexico). Just like only people who are from the United States of America may justifiably claim their nationality as American. All other residents in the continents of North America and South America have their own nationalities to claim. They never ever claim their nationality as American. I'm not sure why so many Brits are confused by that.

When you read further along you'll see that I've just concluded a debate with a frustrated and confused former citizen of said country who was also an "American" before forsaking that privilege so many around the world pine for and is now lost somewhere in Canada and he still doesn't understand it's simplicity.. You see it's too simple unlike the electrics on any British made car in the past for example and just like their own convoluted system of British, UK, Wales is not English and Scotland is part of...Yada yada yada, oh! and let's not forget that Nortern Ireland.................. Oh, never mind ...

Stop there, both of you

Name one Brit who has gotten involved in the America/American argument.

Read back there Mooners,, the only poster here I've been debating this topic with is a self proclaimed former British citizen born in Virginia who despised America so much he abscounded off to Canada and took Canadian citizenship...

Edited August 3, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[smokie36]

I love that this is devolving into two threads within one. As it should...maybe three even.

That's real life and how conversations in groups work, one discussion brings up another one and conversation flows and evolves ....

And?

Don't look everwhere for criticism......no carry on!

[WarpSpeed]

I love that this is devolving into two threads within one. As it should...maybe three even.

That's real life and how conversations in groups work, one discussion brings up another one and conversation flows and evolves ....

And?

Don't look everwhere for criticism......no carry on!

Didn't see it as criticism, see the winking smilie??

[Moonrakers]

f course they call themselves Mexicans as they are from the Estados Unidos De Mexico (United States Of Mexico). Just like only people who are from the United States of America may justifiably claim their nationality as American. All other residents in the continents of North America and South America have their own nationalities to claim. They never ever claim their nationality as American. I'm not sure why so many Brits are confused by that.

When you read further along you'll see that I've just concluded a debate with a frustrated and confused former citizen of said country who was also an "American" before forsaking that privilege so many around the world pine for and is now lost somewhere in Canada and he still doesn't understand it's simplicity.. You see it's too simple unlike the electrics on any British made car in the past for example and just like their own convoluted system of British, UK, Wales is not English and Scotland is part of...Yada yada yada, oh! and let's not forget that Nortern Ireland.................. Oh, never mind ...

Stop there, both of you

Name one Brit who has gotten involved in the America/American argument.

Read back there Mooners,, the only poster here I've been debating this topic with is a self proclaimed former British citizen born in Virginia who despised America so much he abscounded off to Canada and took Canadian citizenship...

He's Canadian though and besides, since when did one Brit constitute 'so many' Brits?

I've always been taught American nationality = USA and we've all learned from more less the same curriculum.

[smokie36]

I love that this is devolving into two threads within one. As it should...maybe three even.

That's real life and how conversations in groups work, one discussion brings up another one and conversation flows and evolves ....

And?

Don't look everwhere for criticism......no carry on!

Didn't see it as criticism, see the winking smilie??

No worries.

[WarpSpeed]

When you read further along you'll see that I've just concluded a debate with a frustrated and confused former citizen of said country who was also an "American" before forsaking that privilege so many around the world pine for and is now lost somewhere in Canada and he still doesn't understand it's simplicity.. You see it's too simple unlike the electrics on any British made car in the past for example and just like their own convoluted system of British, UK, Wales is not English and Scotland is part of...Yada yada yada, oh! and let's not forget that Nortern Ireland.................. Oh, never mind ...

Stop there, both of you

Name one Brit who has gotten involved in the America/American argument.

Read back there Mooners,, the only poster here I've been debating this topic with is a self proclaimed former British citizen born in Virginia who despised America so much he abscounded off to Canada and took Canadian citizenship...

He's Canadian though and besides, since when did one Brit constitute 'so many' Brits?

I've always been taught American nationality = USA and we've all learned from more less the same curriculum.

Well thank you for lending your voice to setting him straight.. There have been quite few Brits in past conversations about the same topic who have maintained such opposing views though.. And just for the record he claimed to be a born again Canadian but originally British, poor confused fella that he is..

[jombom]

QUOTES

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

It's more than one island.

No, it isn't. _{^{(SC: I can't believe you didn't come over all Monty Python when you wrote this!)}}

Great Britain is the name given to the largest of the islands.

Ok so Shetland and Mull aren't great Britain?

No, they are not Great Britain.

They are part of Britain, or the British Isles, or Scotland, or the United Kingdom. But they are not part of Great Britain.

Politically though, they are. It depends in what context you are asking.

ENDQUOTES

My apologies - I thought I had posted this yesterday, but apparently not...

A list of the inhabited British Isles:

http://en.wikipedia....e_British_Isles

Rockall, the most remote of the British Isles, lies some 300 km West of the farthest of the inhabited islands - an occasional military base in the St Kilda group.

SC

Not sure why you consider Rockall to be British. It is claimed by 4 countries. Both the U.K and Irish governments have agreed it is of no consequence. The U.N is deliberating on the matter.

Anyway, you can read about it here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall

[lannarebirth]

f course they call themselves Mexicans as they are from the Estados Unidos De Mexico (United States Of Mexico). Just like only people who are from the United States of America may justifiably claim their nationality as American. All other residents in the continents of North America and South America have their own nationalities to claim. They never ever claim their nationality as American. I'm not sure why so many Brits are confused by that.

When you read further along you'll see that I've just concluded a debate with a frustrated and confused former citizen of said country who was also an "American" before forsaking that privilege so many around the world pine for and is now lost somewhere in Canada and he still doesn't understand it's simplicity.. You see it's too simple unlike the electrics on any British made car in the past for example and just like their own convoluted system of British, UK, Wales is not English and Scotland is part of...Yada yada yada, oh! and let's not forget that Nortern Ireland.................. Oh, never mind ...

Stop there, both of you

Don't get up gentlemen, I'm only passing through.

[7by7]

QUOTES

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

It's more than one island.

No, it isn't. _{^{(SC: I can't believe you didn't come over all Monty Python when you wrote this!)}}

Great Britain is the name given to the largest of the islands.

Ok so Shetland and Mull aren't great Britain?

No, they are not Great Britain.

They are part of Britain, or the British Isles, or Scotland, or the United Kingdom. But they are not part of Great Britain.

Politically though, they are. It depends in what context you are asking.

ENDQUOTES

My apologies - I thought I had posted this yesterday, but apparently not...

A list of the inhabited British Isles:

http://en.wikipedia....e_British_Isles

Rockall, the most remote of the British Isles, lies some 300 km West of the farthest of the inhabited islands - an occasional military base in the St Kilda group.

SC

Not sure why you consider Rockall to be British. It is claimed by 4 countries. Both the U.K and Irish governments have agreed it is of no consequence. The U.N is deliberating on the matter.

Anyway, you can read about it here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall

He doesn't, he says it is part of the British Isles; which is a geographical term, not a political one. As was explained ad nauseum earlier in the topic.

[mca]

I once knew a Scotsman whose dislike of the English was such that he refused to recognise he was British.

He was a bit of a tool though.

They could have made a special passport just for him where, when it states citizenship, he could put " Twattish "

I was in Khon Kaen immi once and a bloke was arguing the same point about " British" and " English" with the immi officer. Getting quite irate too. " King Canute and the waves mate" I thought.

What is it with some people? Arguing the toss with a Thai immi official? When it comes to my extension if the guy wants to put under citizenship " Ugly c@nt" so long as I get what I want I'll walk away laughing.

[StreetCowboy]

QUOTES

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

It's more than one island.

No, it isn't. _{^{(SC: I can't believe you didn't come over all Monty Python when you wrote this!)}}

Great Britain is the name given to the largest of the islands.

Ok so Shetland and Mull aren't great Britain?

No, they are not Great Britain.

They are part of Britain, or the British Isles, or Scotland, or the United Kingdom. But they are not part of Great Britain.

Politically though, they are. It depends in what context you are asking.

ENDQUOTES

My apologies - I thought I had posted this yesterday, but apparently not...

A list of the inhabited British Isles:

http://en.wikipedia....e_British_Isles

Rockall, the most remote of the British Isles, lies some 300 km West of the farthest of the inhabited islands - an occasional military base in the St Kilda group.

SC

Not sure why you consider Rockall to be British. It is claimed by 4 countries. Both the U.K and Irish governments have agreed it is of no consequence. The U.N is deliberating on the matter.

Anyway, you can read about it here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall

He doesn't, he says it is part of the British Isles; which is a geographical term, not a political one. As was explained ad nauseum earlier in the topic.

I don't think anyone else claims Rockall itself; the dispute relates to the area of seabed around it.

I don't really think that making a claim affects the ownership of anything. When ifever the UN rules contrary to the UK's claim, then Rockall will cease to be British. Whether or not the Republic has a claim to the six counties, they will continue to be British until that claim is accepted and the UK relinquishes sovereignty. The Falkland Islands remain British, regardless of the claims of their neighbours, and most countries accept that.

SC

[gennisis]

what nonsense! - you are British - look on your passport.

Scottish, Welsh etc are subfolders - you seem very confused about your place in this world.

PS - St George was Greek

St George, if he existed, was Roman.

Nonesense.......aint no dragons in Italy

[StreetCowboy]

what nonsense! - you are British - look on your passport.

Scottish, Welsh etc are subfolders - you seem very confused about your place in this world.

PS - St George was Greek

St George, if he existed, was Roman.

Nonesense.......aint no dragons in Italy

To be fair, no-one ever claimed nationality for ther dragon, Presumably he was a starving and discriminated foreigner, the likes of Alan Sugar....

Long live the Superleague!

SC

[Thongkorn]

You can tell Brits any here. they have a feather in there turban

[Mossfinn]

Rock on Rockall, keep your hands off Rockall, it's Irish to the core and the natural gas will burn your a^rse............

I remember the British Government sending an SAS man to live on the rock for a month many years ago, to claim their sovereignty of it and the natural gas that lays underneath and around it.