More Thais Selling Sex, Study Finds

[george]

PROSTITUTION: More Thais selling sex, study finds

War on poverty failing as number of prostitutes rises 50,000 in 2003

The number of sex workers rose by 50,000 last year despite improving economic conditions and the government's war against poverty, an academic said yesterday.

Dr Nitet Tinnakul from Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Political Science, who has carried out extensive surveys and research on prostitution in Thailand, said that between 1999 and 2002 there were about 2.8 million sex workers in Thailand. Of them, 2 million were adult females, 20,000 were adult males and 800,000 were boys and girls under the age of 18, Nitet said.

The number of sex service outlets was 60,000, he said.

The 2003 survey, based on interviews with sex workers, showed that more Thais are turning to the sex trade to earn a living.

"If we judge by the rising number of sex service venues, I believe the number of prostitutes is much higher," Nitet said.

"The increase of sex services shows that the government's war against poverty is not effective," he said.

The survey found that 33.9 per cent of sex workers took up the work because they were unemployed. The rest had jobs but turned to prostitution for supplementary income.

Nitet said he supports the legalisation of prostitution and said the public had to face the fact that prostitution could never be eradicated.

"If the government brings prostitution under control, sex workers can be protected and would not have to work in fear of being arrested," he said.

A recent Thailand Research Fund survey by Sukanya Pornsopakul found that poverty was driving more teen and pre-teen boys into prostitution, with many working in go-go bars.

Unlike female prostitutes, they do not have support groups.

Another study by the Thailand Research Fund showed that young women whose families could not depend on their income from farming were driven into prostitution.

A familiar path for girls from rural backgrounds was go from working in a factory to becoming a waitress, then working in a karaoke bar, and finally moving into full-time prostitution, the survey found.

--The Nation 2004-01-03

[Phil Conners]

Really?

[Dove]

A thought cross my mind when I asked a friend who works as a volunteer teacher for one of the NGOs that promote safe sex. I asked her her opinion about the women who often told the men that they were in the trade because they divorced because their husbands had a mia noi and that they were in it because they didn't have the money to support the kids etc.

She told me that she used to believe that story but many of the women were in it because it was easy money.

I observed that many of these women are also keeping their own studs. So maybe it is not the poverty level but the attraction of easy wealth. In their minds what they are doing may not seem immoral after all when they had made enough or are kept by a rich man they have got it made and live in luxury after that. Some earn enough to buy land or even to go through college. To the man they keep it is ok because they are interested in the money that comes with the women, the women are just doing another job. To the farm girl it is filial piety. Nobody talks about it when she gets back to the village. Father is a richer man, owns land, she will still be in demand. The men at times are too lazy to work hard for the money. I recall once that the King had advised some villagers about some business opportunity and asked why they were not into it. The villagers replied tha they were too lazy.

[brubo1]

Easy money is the operative word.

I think the reasons so many people in Thailand are turning to prostitution are changing. Where it used to be to support the poor family it is now the fact that they get much further much quicker. The people in those moo-baans in the NE are talking... . Virtually every village now has one or two girls(mainly girls) that have gone to Pattaya or BKK and come back with a farang or untold riches gained through their "work" in restaurants (=bars)! To think that one average crop of rice can earn a family 5 to 10k Baht twice a year.... . One night with a jai dee farang can get them that much! No wonder it looks so attractive to more and more Thais!

[TizMe]

The villagers replied tha they were too lazy.

My GF runs a small business. One of her customers is an aging (35ish) BG.

The BG was complaining to my GF that she was broke because she hadn't had many bar fines recently. So my GF offerred her a little bit of part time work ironing.

The BG never even asked how much she would be paid. She just said that she was too lazy to do it.

[GCM]

Easy money and luxury is definitely the key word.

Why work for 20B a hour (or less!!) if you can earn a few thousand bath a night?

There are a lot of young woman (and man) who work in the evening in a restaurant and study by daylight, or the opposite.

Sex workers just prefer the easy way and hope to catch a rich man who will give them a rich live.

It’s odd that the Taksin government wants to fight prostitution. Most of the ministers have mia noi’s and are probably frequent visitors of exclusive night clubs.

Selling sex belongs to the Thai culture and will never be erased.

I don’t think farangs are the prime targets. Japanese, rich Chinese and rich Thais are a much better catch.

[toey22]

Maybe moral reform is needed... with today's materialism and consumerism.. it's not surprising these women (needy or not) always long for easy money... have they no self respect at all? I just don't understand the world these days..!! We've been emphasizing too much about economics, but not social development.

[mrpager2000]

Lets not forget where this easy money goes, They take taxis everywhere they go "I dont like the bus!" = I like to sell my body. In bangkok unless your from a rich family, the bus is a normal mode of transportation, spending 200-300 per day on taxis is not an option for the average educated office or hotel worker.

Camera phones that they lose everyweek, cheap yellow metal (gold) and paying for all their friends. Always they are broke no matter how much they make (except for a few really smart or really lucky ones) Do these thing really make their life any better? they most still live in the same buildings as the thai people who work for a living for 8000-12000 a month. I just dont see the point, take the bus, ditch the gold, take pictures with a camera when you are on holiday and use your cell phone for talking, and you can get by just fine on a normal salary, oh almost forgot, that would require a bit of hard work. Just grin and bear it!

[dighambara]

The article said: "The Thai government has been keen to stamp out Bangkok's image as a sex tourism destination".

1. It is very difficult to overcome centuries of male domination and exploitation of women.

2. It is also difficult to overcome the imbalance of pay for work, when a prostitute cam make more money than a bank president.

3. The appropriate legalization of prostitution would provide the necessary control (honest police), taxation, hospices, orphanages, universal medical care, and pay incentives to get people out of the business.

4. The Thai government would self destruct if #1 above was addressed.

[snoophound]

Well its no surprise.

We the Falang only see the tip of the iceberg,their is far more prostition and much more dangerous ie:unprotected in the local scene.

The problem is Poverty but also greed.

Many girls i have spoken to have been driven to this and then forced to stay on the game long term due to avaricious familes demanding more and more money....new car on time payment ,new houses ,motorbikes etc etc etc.

The current easy credit situ in thailand is only making this worse.

[KhunBoom]

Another spin to this issue is the part time workers. We there are many students who do a little freelancer action now and then. A noted place to find such action si the Hard Rock Cafe during school holidays! Schoold Girls, of age, are seen working things at HRC in Siam Square! That is the tip for the day!

[Up2U]

The elimination of poverty as promoted by the current government means the addition to the wealth of the cities and big business It has nothing to do with helping Issaan and the far North, little to do with the Southern Provinces.

When the wealth of the country (which is considerable) is more equitably distributed, then there may be some hope for bringing the sex-trade down to a manageable level. Pay the farmers a decent return on their labour, maybe by subsidy and taxation of the aforesaid big businesses. But indolence still remains the curse of the rural areas. Maybe because one cannot make a living wage, except by working at two or three jobs (farming, construction labourer, evening mechanic - as my brother-in-law, for instance).

The government is not concerned with the mass of constituents in the countryside, only the vocal section in the cities.

[ando]

It looks like consumerism more than poverty is now driving the move into prostitution for many girls. Still, we must remember here that we are talking about the INCREASE. The underlying motive for the majorioty of girls to START in the profession will allways be poverty. Sure, many girls stay in the trade long after the poverty motive is gone. Maby they just become corrupted by the lifestyle and become lazy, or maybe its because of pressure from a family who becomes dependant on the income to maintain their lifestyle. Maybe its both in some cases!

But dont forget we are talking about the INCREASE, not the status quo.

I think theres 2 aspects to consider here.

Firstly its the social acceptance of prostitution in Thailand. Combine that with a rapidly developing consumer oriented society more interested in material wealth than in days gone by, and you got your reasons for the INCREASE.

Secondly, the benifits of a rapidly growing Thai economy hasnt done anything at all for the poverty stricken families in Issarn where the baseline number of girls come from, and continue to come from.

I dont think the increase has come from the poor families in Issarn at all, but rather from the middle class who are becoming more and more consumer orientated and materialistic.

It will only be after many years when the benifits of Thailands prosperity flows through to the poor, that the overall number of girls going into prostitution starts to drop.

In the mean time Hard Rock Cafe sounds pretty good.

[francois]

"The increase of sex services shows that the government's war against poverty is not effective," he said.

sad ...

if the reality is this, some plans have failed ...

but thai society should be clean, wealthy, and happy ...

is it like this?

francois

[The_Moog]

Thaksin could close down the bkk sex tourist biz overnight if he wanted to - with ten soldiers and five rolls of barbed wire.

Two men at each end of Patpong and Cowboy, and two outside Nana.

Yes, the trade would go on elsewhere, but that act alone would burst a lot of bubbles.

[eyespan]

would LOS still be the place to go if the gov works hard to close the sex trade? What would BKK be like without the BGs? Hard though :huh

[alanw]

Two points to make:

- The gap in income in LOS is own of the most disparate in the world. The old rich and new rich are extremely greedy. Long term this is not healthy for any country. Eventually the downtroden will say 'enough', even in LOS. When it happens, it won't be pretty. Perhaps not in my lifetime, but it will happen. Lots of examples in modern and ancient history.

- Thais are manic about status, today that strongly involves having the materialistic items which display status. That's currently fed by the ease which Thais can currently get credit, and get into severe debt. Loan sharks then drooling at the spoils. Long term - not healthy.

[Butterfly]

Not surprised. Free lancing is more fun for the girls than the regular bars.

The Hard Rock Cafe has been famous for quite some time (I have a female friend working there) and RCA had a few freelancers even for farangs for quite a while when the place was crowded 3 years ago (the good old days). Now it's ghost town.

Want a real good place for freelancer students and attractive Thai females ? Kho San Road !!! The new mecca for freelancers and university students. Gulliver is particularly famous for this. Oops, I shouldn't reveal my sources

[Begs]

And if you Come to Tokyo, you can get Japanese schoolgirls in Shinjuku, Harajuku, Shibuya or Roppongi, and if you want a girl from USA or UK or AUS, you can go to any hostess bar in Roppongi, there are many many working here, i am sure that the folks at home dont know what they are really doing, but i dont blame them, ..................the money is good.

[Moving]

Regarding the "increase" in bar girls....First, I don't know if a really trust polls and statistics and only believe half of what I read in the Thai papers.. Having said that, I also have trouble with any speculations/interpretations based on them.

Polls and statistics aside, and admittedly I am not nearly as exposed as some, but in the last five years I have noticed what you might call a trend, a lot of the girls seem to be staying longer in the bars...either the same bar or a different bar, but still working the bars.

The girls that I have developed significant relationships each had different motives and different expectations but all appeared to have two things in common, 1) And put on your sun glasses, 'cause here comes a blinding flash of the obvious, they were all working in the bar for MONEY, it paid significantly more that any other job they could qualify for, and for the most part, was easy; and 2) Although each had initial issues with the family, all desired to be independent, and working in the bar gave them the ability to contribute to the family and, for the majority, the ability to contribute to the family is important...However, as their time in the bar progressed each seemed to take the attitude with the family that, "You may not like, nor approve of what I am doing but you don't refuse the MONEY, so live with it". And the same for us that keep the girls company, "You may not approve of what I'm doing but it doesn't keep you out of the bed, so live with it".

Of course my favorite (unfortunately) was one young lady that found she simply liked the excitement of the bar, the ability to take a day or two for "holiday" with her Thai friends, live in an apartment she didn't have to share with one-three other girls, go to the Emporium for a strapless 'up-lift' bra, could buy a dinner at a restaurant instead of a 40 baht roadside barbeque and could afford not only a taxi in lieu of a motorbike but also a mobile and the 1000baht phone card to go along with it.

I have long ago given up trying to take the moral high ground...I can't hold it. I cannot argue against anyone that strives for a better life style...short of drugs, theft, and other assorted felonies. It appears the girls, and to some extent , their families can tolerate their working a bar....If one was going to look at any improvement in moral fiber it would have to be their innate ability to lie...what an art, in that if you really examine it, they were probably not lying, they were just telling you what you wanted to hear and not the "Rest of the Story"

[NedKelly]

Hows this......some years ago after I ditched my Thai girlfriend I found that she was turning tricks for a select group of clients. there were about 8 guys I think and they would page her when they required her services. She was a qualified Psychologist graduating from Thamasat University so had the brains to work out it was easy for her to make money by working on the outside of the head rather than inside it haha !! To make things worse, I also discovered that she was married to an English guy........and she also had a girlfriend......gees......I just laughed when I found all this out.......what else could I do.....a fantastic story !! To top it off, one day I emailed her and the husband answered......shock horror. he had tapped into her email as he suspected something was going on....so i told him the whole story .......poor bugger he probably shot himself after that. Anyway, this girl had no problems doing what she did. So the questions remains about the moral development of Thai society.

By the way, there are reports that 85% of the sex industry in Thailand is for the domestic market...Thai men. Th eother 15% is foreigners. So if Toxin wants to get rid of sex tourism he is only getting rid of a small percentage albeit the most visual.

[Dennis Pennis]

So the questions remains about the moral development of Thai society.

Most girls/women here in Thailand polarise very clearly into those who are part of the sex industry and those who are not. A middle ground does of course exist, but the differences between those who sell and those who don't are usually great and visually self-evident. Look closely at dress, attitude and demeanour.

"Normal" Thai women are brought up to be conservative, demure and modest. Some, needless to say, are different: more individualistic, more outgoing, more flirtatious. But underneath it all, there's still an unmistakeable thainess about even the most modern and liberated of Thai women.

Sluts, on the other hand, stand out a mile. They stink. They're rotten to the core. They lie; they deceive. They are an embarrassment and a disgrace to their country.

I read somewhere the opinions of someone who claimed that if a Thai girl "goes" with her boyfriend in anything less than six months then she is almost certainly a slut. This is an exaggeration, but if westerners took the time to learn more about local culture and traditions before deciding to fall in love and commit vast sums of money to a relative stranger, I'm sure the sad tales of woe we've all heard would abate a little.

[KhunBoom]

I think the whole this is not about poverty but about THE MONEY. Some of these girls a making more that Dr. and Lawyers etc. It si nothing for a Bar Girls to make 20K baht per month and many many more are far beyond that!

Wages are low and the BG biz cna pay very well!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Hows this......some years ago after I ditched my Thai girlfriend I found that she was turning tricks for a select group of clients. there were about 8 guys I think and they would page her when they required her services. She was a qualified Psychologist graduating from Thamasat University so had the brains to work out it was easy for her to make money by working on the outside of the head rather than inside it haha !! To make things worse, I also discovered that she was married to an English guy........and she also had a girlfriend......gees......I just laughed when I found all this out.......what else could I do.....a fantastic story !! To top it off, one day I emailed her and the husband answered......shock horror. he had tapped into her email as he suspected something was going on....so i told him the whole story .......poor bugger he probably shot himself after that. Anyway, this girl had no problems doing what she did. So the questions remains about the moral development of Thai society.

By the way, there are reports that 85% of the sex industry in Thailand is for the domestic market...Thai men. Th eother 15% is foreigners. So if Toxin wants to get rid of sex tourism he is only getting rid of a small percentage albeit the most visual.

She was a busy lady Ned. Time management specialist too .

[Begs]

So the questions remains about the moral development of Thai society.

Most girls/women here in Thailand polarise very clearly into those who are part of the sex industry and those who are not. A middle ground does of course exist, but the differences between those who sell and those who don't are usually great and visually self-evident. Look closely at dress, attitude and demeanour.

"Normal" Thai women are brought up to be conservative, demure and modest. Some, needless to say, are different: more individualistic, more outgoing, more flirtatious. But underneath it all, there's still an unmistakeable thainess about even the most modern and liberated of Thai women.

Sluts, on the other hand, stand out a mile. They stink. They're rotten to the core. They lie; they deceive. They are an embarrassment and a disgrace to their country.

I read somewhere the opinions of someone who claimed that if a Thai girl "goes" with her boyfriend in anything less than six months then she is almost certainly a slut. This is an exaggeration, but if westerners took the time to learn more about local culture and traditions before deciding to fall in love and commit vast sums of money to a relative stranger, I'm sure the sad tales of woe we've all heard would abate a little.

Haha, another bitter and twisted farang that gave all his money to some girl that sat on his lap and told him he was a sexy man..........

[roygo217]

"not every thai women is ready in 4 minutes"!

this is a phrase taken from a new commercial bruoght up in israel lately(its about noodels by the way) .

most people troughout the world dont know much about the ones living else where.

for exemple:if you ask people about usa they probably say george bush or people be asked about israel(my place)they will say something about war with the palestiniens.

although i know this is a shllow discription of my country' you sould know than when i ask people here about thailand they are most likely to say something about prostetution or thai people eat dogs(which is almost not true at all).

i think the major contributer to this problem was letting pattaya become what she is today.when bankok has much to offer(except prostitutin)pataya is with no doubt the prostitution kingdom.things must to be done by the goverment to improve the city image and to change the general opinion about Thailand. because Thailand is not only a thai women ready in 4 minutes right?

[maerim]

Thailand is not only a thai women ready in 4 minutes right?

All depends on where you are taking her.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A soft boiled egg is marginally quicker.

[Dennis Pennis]

So the questions remains about the moral development of Thai society.

Most girls/women here in Thailand polarise very clearly into those who are part of the sex industry and those who are not. A middle ground does of course exist, but the differences between those who sell and those who don't are usually great and visually self-evident. Look closely at dress, attitude and demeanour.

"Normal" Thai women are brought up to be conservative, demure and modest. Some, needless to say, are different: more individualistic, more outgoing, more flirtatious. But underneath it all, there's still an unmistakeable thainess about even the most modern and liberated of Thai women.

Sluts, on the other hand, stand out a mile. They stink. They're rotten to the core. They lie; they deceive. They are an embarrassment and a disgrace to their country.

I read somewhere the opinions of someone who claimed that if a Thai girl "goes" with her boyfriend in anything less than six months then she is almost certainly a slut. This is an exaggeration, but if westerners took the time to learn more about local culture and traditions before deciding to fall in love and commit vast sums of money to a relative stranger, I'm sure the sad tales of woe we've all heard would abate a little.

Haha, another bitter and twisted farang that gave all his money to some girl that sat on his lap and told him he was a sexy man..........

Wrong.

Another prick "senior member" who doesn't know how to read properly.

[maerim]

A soft boiled egg is marginally quicker.

And in my limited experience with Thai ladies a bit cheaper too.