Do Tourists Have A Divine Right To Commit Suicide On Phuket'S Beaches

[up2you2]

I think we all agree that the reality of most dangerous beaches being closed during the monsoon season, with their deadly rip tides will never happen.

So what other practical measures could be initiated and enforced, to deter would be suicidal candidates to think twice.

Perhaps the jet ski operators could initially herd, kettle and the funnel prospective swimmers to one given access point to the water.

Before they reach it however they would have to go through, and pass a whole series of offers:

Water wing armbands

Travel agents offering to refund return tickets

Life insurance salesmen

Inheritance tax planners

Last will and testament lawyers

Representatives from all the religious denominations selling funeral packages

Last rites

Lottery ticket hawkers

Russian roulette facilities

And finally the buy me one cola routine

If they are still up for it, razor wire and a minefield still have to be negotiated.

[Semper]

Do Tourists Have A Divine Right To Commit Suicide On Phuket'S Beaches

I thought Pattaya had the monopoly on suicides. Jumping from high rise condos etc.

[starkey_rich]

Up to them.I am on the beach everyday and watch these idiots just disregard the flags and the the lifeguards blowing whistles.

I have no sympathy for them.

If they want to kill themselves OK but don't endanger other people by trying to save them.

[snamos]

Problem is in some countries ie. australia we are taught to swim between the flags, I only found out after a couple of years of staying in Phuket that the flags indicated danger, Im a strong swimmer so it doesnt really worry me, I did allways scratch my head when i saw the flags being put right where the rip started, i just put it down to lifeguards being a little niaive

[Atmos]

Tourists drowning is not limited to Phuket/Thailand

from Australia - and about a year ago I remember mention of water safety messages being included in airline 'pre-landing briefings' for flights into Phuket but don't think it ever eventuated?

Australia warning tourists after drownings triple

September 16th, 2010

Drownings of international tourists and immigrants have tripled in Australia over the past four years, prompting officials to begin a new campaign to warn visitors before they even step off the plane.

Australia's National Coastal Safety Report released Thursday showed 26 international visitors or migrants drowned off the country's shores during the 2009-2010 survey period, compared with nine international drowning deaths four years earlier.

"Our research indicates that this high risk group has limited English skills, a lack of knowledge about the beach, over-estimate their swimming ability, inadequate swimming skills and a general lack of surf safety awareness," said Brett Williamson, chief executive officer of Surf Life Saving Australia, which released Thursday's report.

Airlines including Singapore Airlines, Air New Zealand, Garuda, Malaysia Airlines, South African Airways and China Airlines will show warning videos about the Australian surf as part of pre-landing briefings, the group said. Warnings will be translated into Arabic, Chinese, Hindi, Japanese, Korean and Malay.

"I have witnessed many tourists on Australian beaches getting into trouble simply because they don't know the basic swimming rules such as swimming between the red and yellow flags. To many Australians these rules seem like second nature, but they are not to international visitors," said Stephanie Gilmore, a world champion surfer and ambassador for the safety campaign.

**********

and, before we paint Australians as too perfect in their water habits . . . one of three from July who drowned on Phuket was the woman from Canberra who chose to swim after sunset with her friend.

Australia 2010 National Drowning Report

Royal Life Saving is deeply alarmed to see that the numbers of drowning deaths are the highest they've been at any time in the last 7 years, with 314 drowning deaths in Australian waterways between July 1st 2009 and June 30th 2010.

Royal Life Saving CEO Rob Bradley says following on from the previous year (where the number of drowning deaths jumped by 16%) there's now been another increase, which may point to an alarming upward trend in drowning deaths.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Atmos

[Atmos]

one more thing . . . two of the last three drownings have been 'after hours' and 'after dark', the man from China went in the water about 6pm, unsure how long till he was reported as misisng; the woman from Canberra, Australia, wan't reported missing till 7.45pm - don't know how much later it was when rescue services arrived, but little they can do in pitch black conditions, regardless of how rough the water conditions are.

Earlier this year the young man at (was it Surin?) who drowned 2am . . . late night ones there's more a chance they had alcohol in their system.

Examples like these the lifeguard operation cannot be blamed/take responsibility, yet the drownings do show as a statistic on their beaches.

When I lived on Phuket I took many pics of the beaches and lifeguard operations to send to friends in NZ/Oz, as they simply wouldn't believe if I told them. People arguing, ignoring (and saw one minor assault) with lifeguards over their right to swim in a red-flagged area. Sadly lost most pics when the laptop was stolen, but have some from Facebook.

Here's 2 from Karon - after heavy seas - would you swim there at night - high tide and you're in deep very quickly.

[phuketsub]

Tourists in beach areas face constant harassment by touts, hawkers, etc.

By the time the lifeguards get to them it's too late. They are already conditioned to disregard or completely ignore 'the locals'.

RE: thread topic name and "divine rights": Everyone has the "right" to take their own life. Check the criminal code and see where suicide is listed as a prosecutable offense...who would they charge, a corpse?

[Atmos]

oops again - here's pics as per my earlier post.

Karon beach

Here's 2 from Karon - after heavy seas - would you swim there at night - high tide and you're in deep very quickly.

[Atmos]

Everyone has the "right" to take their own life. Check the criminal code and see where suicide is listed as a prosecutable offense...who would they charge, a corpse?

no consideration for the risk they put lifeguards at?

A Samui lifeguard died in March this year in the rescue of an Iranian man, he was swept back out to sea after getting the man close to shore.

His body was found washed ashore Chaweng beach the next day.

The Iranian lived.

[Jimi007]

Problem is in some countries ie. australia we are taught to swim between the flags, I only found out after a couple of years of staying in Phuket that the flags indicated danger, Im a strong swimmer so it doesnt really worry me, I did allways scratch my head when i saw the flags being put right where the rip started, i just put it down to lifeguards being a little niaive

Problem is in some countries ie. australia we are taught to swim

I agree with this part. We don't have flags in California though. Growing up at the beach, I started swimming lessons, swim teams and junior lifeguards at a very young age. The ocean was my back yard, so my parents did the best they could to water proof me. I still crawled out of the water several times gasping for air after being slammed in large surf. Tourists come here without a clue as to what can happen to them in the ocean. As far as lifeguarding goes, I don't think too much of their skill set here. Plus most of the guards are half the size of a foreigner they are trying to rescue, which puts them at a disadvantage...

[snamos]

Maybe there is an opening for "baywatch thailand" a new high impact, hard hitting reality TV show

[grumpyoldman]

Problem is in some countries ie. australia we are taught to swim between the flags, I only found out after a couple of years of staying in Phuket that the flags indicated danger, Im a strong swimmer so it doesnt really worry me, I did allways scratch my head when i saw the flags being put right where the rip started, i just put it down to lifeguards being a little niaive

Problem is in some countries ie. australia we are taught to swim

I agree with this part. We don't have flags in California though. Growing up at the beach, I started swimming lessons, swim teams and junior lifeguards at a very young age. The ocean was my back yard, so my parents did the best they could to water proof me. I still crawled out of the water several times gasping for air after being slammed in large surf. Tourists come here without a clue as to what can happen to them in the ocean. As far as lifeguarding goes, I don't think too much of their skill set here. Plus most of the guards are half the size of a foreigner they are trying to rescue, which puts them at a disadvantage...

Jimi007, in Southern California where I grew up and did Jr. Lifeguards, we for sure had flags flying from the lifeguard towers. Difference being we didn't fly the red flag everyday. Green (go), yellow (caution), red (serious danger). Problem here is that they fly the red everyday so people end up ignoring it.

Agreed on the size of the people. I remember my final for passing my guard certification, our instructor was this huge German guy, you had to save him, and he played the panicking, drowning person, would hold you down and climb on top of you, nightmare rescue.........................

[Jimi007]

Maybe there is an opening for "baywatch thailand" a new high impact, hard hitting reality TV show

LOL! My brother was one of the water safety officer on the original! Now he's a retired LA County Lifeguard Captain. And actually "Baywatch Thailand" might not be a bad idea to highlight the danger here.

GOM, I grew up in Manhattan Beach and the only flag they flew from the tower, besides the US, was the blackball flag, surfers out of the water. They did have red flags, come to think of it, but they were for where you couldn't surf before they would blackball the entire area...

[grumpyoldman]

Maybe there is an opening for "baywatch thailand" a new high impact, hard hitting reality TV show

LOL! My brother was one of the water safety officer on the original! Now he's a retired LA County Lifeguard Captain. And actually "Baywatch Thailand" might not be a bad idea to highlight the danger here.

GOM, I grew up in Manhattan Beach and the only flag they flew from the tower, besides the US, was the blackball flag, surfers out of the water. They did have red flags, come to think of it, but they were for where you couldn't surf before they would blackball the entire area...

Ahhhhhhh.......Manhattan Beach, used to go up there playing beach volleyball. (Off topic but....) truly some of the prettiest ladies in the world.

[seriouseats]

why cant people too poor to come here in the high season just go on a trip to phiphi.. you can swim as much as you want there.

oh wait.. rebate travelers.. can you expect anything out of them?

[Atmos]

why cant people too poor to come here in the high season just go on a trip to phiphi.. you can swim as much as you want there.

oh wait.. rebate travelers.. can you expect anything out of them?

I think this is a fair point; many people come on a package deal - airfares, accomm and in some cases meals at the hotel restaurant too - and that is maybe the limit of their budget, all pre-paid with just a little over for some souvenirs.

Hotel right on the waterfront . . . all too tempting

Kata is often far safer than Karon, maybe herd up all the tourists and get them all swimming in a controlled area, shoot the ones who refuse.

[stevenl]

why cant people too poor to come here in the high season just go on a trip to phiphi.. you can swim as much as you want there.

oh wait.. rebate travelers.. can you expect anything out of them?

I think this is a fair point; many people come on a package deal - airfares, accomm and in some cases meals at the hotel restaurant too - and that is maybe the limit of their budget, all pre-paid with just a little over for some souvenirs.

Hotel right on the waterfront . . . all too tempting

Kata is often far safer than Karon, maybe herd up all the tourists and get them all swimming in a controlled area, shoot the ones who refuse.

Was just at both Karon and Kata Beach. Kata Beach had some waves but no rips as far as I could see, quite some people in the water. Nearly nobody in the water at Karon, excellent.

[seasider]

I will be in Phuket last few days of August, with my young children.

Am i correct in presuming that Kata would be safer?

What about Phi Ph,safer?

I haven't been to Phuket for well over a decade and never in rainy season.

Any good advice would be appreciated.

[grumpyoldman]

I will be in Phuket last few days of August, with my young children.

Am i correct in presuming that Kata would be safer?

What about Phi Ph,safer?

I haven't been to Phuket for well over a decade and never in rainy season.

Any good advice would be appreciated.

Please take note of the color of the flags and regarding your children address the water safety with the lifeguards and/or any surfers you see there.

Phi Phi waters calmer for sure you have protected sides of the island.

[seriouseats]

safer in the beaches up north or east

[F1fanatic]

Unfortunately people don't understand the power of the sea until they are hit by a wave or nearly drown...

Tourists are on holiday and are convinced that nothing bad can happen. I was in Patong a couple of weeks back and really impressed by the waves - and even more amazed that there were tourists, swimming in the water. They could see the height of the waves, but presumably convinced that as they were 'such good swimmers', they would be fine.

[grumpyoldman]

but presumably convinced that as they were 'such good swimmers', they would be fine.

This is what I see amongst the Thais. They stand in waist deep water, go half over and flop their arms in the water (pretend freestyle stroke) to impress others. Then get in trouble/panic when they are all of a sudden in over their heads.

Last weekend at Nai Harn, this exact thing happened. Lady got in over her head, started bouncing off the bottom and screaming. Two Thai lifeguards were on her like stink on a monkey in a matter of five seconds. Dragged her out, all was good. Nice job by the guards.

[F1fanatic]

but presumably convinced that as they were 'such good swimmers', they would be fine.

This is what I see amongst the Thais. They stand in waist deep water, go half over and flop their arms in the water (pretend freestyle stroke) to impress others. Then get in trouble/panic when they are all of a sudden in over their heads.

Last weekend at Nai Harn, this exact thing happened. Lady got in over her head, started bouncing off the bottom and screaming. Two Thai lifeguards were on her like stink on a monkey in a matter of five seconds. Dragged her out, all was good. Nice job by the guards.

That's good news. I've never seen lifeguards here - have they been introduced recently? If so, I'm v happy - they were desperately needed.

[naiharn]

I will be in Phuket last few days of August, with my young children.

Am i correct in presuming that Kata would be safer?

What about Phi Ph,safer?

I haven't been to Phuket for well over a decade and never in rainy season.

Any good advice would be appreciated.

Please take note of the color of the flags

Unfortunately the colour of the flags means nothing. They fly the red flags for weeks on end (the whole wet season?) even on days where the sea is completely calm and safe.

and regarding your children address the water safety with the lifeguards and/or any surfers you see there.

Good advice. Find the lifeguards and talk to them. Make sure they are taking an interest in their job. Swim near them. Kata and Karon are long beaches so even the best lifeguards in the world would not be able to keep everyone safe. If it is obviously rough don't go in. If it is a calm day with small waves go for it.

Kata is regarded as a safer beach than Karon.

There are usually lots of surfers at south end of Kata who can and do save people in trouble, although obviously it's not a good idea to rely on them.

If there are no surfers there it either means it is REALLY rough (and dangerous) or really calm - no waves to ride (and safe).

[TigerWan]

No, Kata is not safer. And it isn't big waves that kill people but unseen rip currents that drag them out.

That's why when tourists who are unfamiliar with the ocean see other tourists frolicking in the surf, and the life guards are permitting it, they think it is OK and perfectly safe.

Red means WARNING, so... they feel warned.

The only place on Phuket I think is safe to swim in the summer, reliably- is the very far north of Bang Tao Beach. It is curved in such a way as the water doesn't form rips. It's also less likely to be polluted as not too many resorts are dumping sewage there, YET,

( although someone was taking to burying garbage there not too long ago. )

The west facing beaches are unsafe, in monsoon season , from rip currents all up and down the Andaman coast due to strong winds from the west pushing water up against the shore.

This isn't the case on Thailand's Gulf side, Samui, etc. all beaches facing east..

I will be in Phuket last few days of August, with my young children.

Am i correct in presuming that Kata would be safer?

What about Phi Ph,safer?

I haven't been to Phuket for well over a decade and never in rainy season.

Any good advice would be appreciated.

Edited August 10, 2011 by TigerWan

[stevenl]

No, Kata is not safer.

Kata Beach is a lot safer than Karon Beach. Much less and far weaker rips, and the seabed slopes down much more gradually.

[naiharn]

No, Kata is not safer. And it isn't big waves that kill people but unseen rip currents that drag them out.

That's why when tourists who are unfamiliar with the ocean see other tourists frolicking in the surf, and the life guards are permitting it, they think it is OK and perfectly safe.

Rip currents are caused by wave action. The waves push water up towards the beach. The water has to eventually flow back out to sea, and does so via rip currents. The bigger and stronger the surf the stronger the rip currents. If the waves are tiny, the rip currents will be small or unnoticeable. So while the waves - usually - don't hurt people directly, it is big strong waves that cause the strong rip currents that drag people out to sea.

Strong waves can also cause deep channels to form. At the beach where I surf nearly every weekend there can be 3 metre deep channels just 15 metres off shore. Then 80 metres off shore the water might be only knee deep. Obviously very dangerous for poor swimmers.

Red means WARNING, so... they feel warned.

Red should mean warning. Unfortunately in Phuket it means nothing.

The only place on Phuket I think is safe to swim in the summer, reliably- is the very far north of Bang Tao Beach. It is curved in such a way as the water doesn't form rips. It's also less likely to be polluted as not too many resorts are dumping sewage there, YET,

( although someone was taking to burying garbage there not too long ago. )

The west facing beaches are unsafe, in monsoon season , from rip currents all up and down the Andaman coast due to strong winds from the west pushing water up against the shore.

This isn't the case on Thailand's Gulf side, Samui, etc. all beaches facing east..

Karon is dangerous because it is a very long beach, with nothing to block the surf, few surfers, few swimmers, and whatever lifeguards are there can't possibly patrol the whole beach. I think the statistics also show that more people drown there than on any other beach in Phuket. 12 people have drowned there in the last 16 months.

Kata at least has surfers and lifeguards near the south end.

I would advise any tourist to go to Kata in preference to Karon. On the other hand no beach is safe if you are a poor swimmer.