No Room For Red Shirts In New Thai Cabinet

[rametindallas]

<br />

<br />Haha the reds will be back a'burning within 6 months <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />....this time though Thaksin will be on top of the pyre!  <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

<br /><br />wrong....this time there will be nobody to finance the reds for any street protest movement.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

exactly, as though that was a grass-roots movement. Those same people will have to be paid; nobody in Thailand does anything for 'free'.

sorry, I meant to say, 'almost' nobody

[nurofiend]

Poorly written article: former billionaire telecoms tycoon-turned-premier Thaksin. Thaksin was a milonaire telcom tycoon-turned-premier-with the help of his children-turned-billionaire. If they are intending to talk in terms that reflect what happened say what really happened. But aren't some assets frozen? So what does that make Mr T? Sounds petty as the writer may not like people who has more money then him?

Yingluck a novice? And what family did she grow up in, together with the position in the company? Yingluck has made her decisions within the time frame's permitted and is quite clear in the aim to re-unite the country. Nothing is being given away at the moment.

Thaksin was a billionaire before he was PM. If you knew his kids you'd know that in the time he tripled his family's net worth (estimated) from 2001 to 2005, his son had been caught cheating at Ramkumhaeng University (few details are available as the PM stepped in to hush it); the daughters were at Kaset and Chula. Now, they may be very very clever, but not many heavily partying 20 year olds (or sub 20) who don't work AT ALL are able to triple a father's wealth at the same time.

Yingluck is without doubt a novice; without any former public office experience; imagine if you were voting for a candidate who has no political office experience, how else do you describe them?

Obviously she has SOME experience in life, as a mother, as a business person, as a leader in the corporate sector (debatable how much) but politically she is a novice, hence the huge amount of handholding behind the scenes, as anyone who has had an audience with her in the last 2 weeks is well aware. No decision is made without consulting a group who are supporting her decision making. Who appointed those people...hmmm. They aren't elected that's for sure.

The cabinet for me is quite a bit better than I expected; obviously they aren't that capable and there are some obvious wrong choices, but there are few completely hopeless choices and I must now eat humble pie, having expected Nattawut to get the PM's office job to handle PR; obviously his appointment must have been vetoed by the civil service in that area.

Thirachai and a few others are obviously elected to ensure that key departments will be controlled as per TRT. Good governance requires the right people to look in the right directions. And the reverse is also true.

Whether it is a wise idea to embark on increasing wages by order rather than letting market forces allow appropriate wage levels to be determined (no one in our employ at an office level earns anything like minimum wage as it is for instance) when the world is not in great shape; whether it is a good plan to introduce price controls and subsidise rice farmers via the taxpayer; whether it is a good plan to hand, for instance, Samart, ItalThai and other connected industries a huge wad of taxpayer cash to deliver computer tablets/infrastructure projects to people who don't need them courtesy of the tax payer; whether it is a good idea to reclaim a river mouth acheiving zero benefit to anyone when land isn't even needed....these are all things easily promised and I will be delighted if none of them come to pass, provided the government do their job (which to me would be best left to the same method of governance since late 2004...where the govt doesn't do too much for a variety of reasons, and let's the real market do the talking, instead of childlike idiotic heavy handed government intereference to help their friends).

Anyhow, most of the policies while the middle class will fund them, so it's best that they don't happen.

No one will come out on the streets if the policies don't happen; to think that will happen would be to mistake the red shirt leader's demands for a movement wanting actual long term policy for their benefit.

For instance, many taxi drivers support the red shirt movement. And yet the government policy that would be MOST logical to help them (increased fares, restrictions on number of taxis and quality of taxis, inclusion in social security schemes) is the exact opposite of the trackrecord of the party now in power. And you hardly ever seem them complaining about this! As long as they get a little or feel they are getting a little, that's more than enough to keep the majority of the factory workers and farmers happy enough. And the crumbs will be at a minimum....a raise of some sort in hte minimum wage and rice pledging.

Everything else....not important to them, but important PERHAPS to the party backers. Suppliers of IT equipment for instance ;_) Or construction firms for the various infrastructure projects.....

It is easier to rally for perceived injustice in the constitution and against foreigners (examples) than to rally for an ASEAN common market or deregulation of the energy industry. A minister gives a bit of face time, says wheels are in motion...that's more than enough.

As for the fact none of the red leaders have portfolios...they would have all been personally placated a while ago; I did love the magnanimous statement of one saying he was ready to stand aside and had asked not to be given a post....after he had already been told he wouldn't get one.

No...it's all plain sailing for now in the good ship of PT....happy days for now.

The purpose of this government is to show stability, have a few decent decisions, and look slightly raw yet be able to cross from red shirt extremism to appeal across the board; this will set the stage to then say we have made good steps in the last 12 months, but now we need to bring in experts, the banned 111, back into the fold...and a snap election will be called in around 9-12 months from now. This means that it isn't too important to do everything; rather it's important to plan for being front of mind...and getting to around 350 seats in the house.

If you read his story you will see that he entered into a few business's and went belly up. When he went into politics he was just starting out with the telco company. I can't see where he had time to develop his billionaire status. Where did you get your information from?

all you have to do is read his wiki page to know that he was a billionaire before he was PM

[yoshiwara]

Give her a chance gents. Why be so negative. You can always go back to London if it has stopped burning

So do so much agree! But as usual the Thaksin Haters have nothing to say positively about anyone that has anything to do with the Red Shirts or the lower classes and have a lot to say about how faulty Thailand is. It would be a good idea to look at their own countries or is that why they are living in Thailand ??

Thaksin apologists are always careful not to use the term working class and prefer the nebulous terms of 'lower class', 'the poor' etc. It must be a problem for them that Thaksin for the moment is discarding the reds like a used hankie. Why? Because the current strategy post-election is to demonstrate that the new government is a loyal member of the ruling class establishment. The red thugs are really redundant for now. If the red leadership were based on any actual independent class organisation, you might see something interesting but they aren't and remain instead as Thaksin's disgruntled hirelings. An embarrassing scenario for the forum cheerleaders with the Che T-shirts, but a smirk from everybody else.

[nurofiend]

but they aren't and remain instead as Thaksin's disgruntled hirelings. An embarrassing scenario for the forum cheerleaders with the Che T-shirts, but a smirk from everybody else.

first off, i'm no thaksin apologist....and you can go through my posts if you want to see. i don't think he's a good guy

all i do is argue with some of the biased nonsense and incorrect information that sometimes gets spouted around this forum

in answer to your comment, i find this scenario more embarrassing for the thaksin/PTP nay-sayers (basically most people on this forum who pat each other on the back post by post) who were fully convinced that the red shirt protest leaders would be rewarded with seats in a corrupt manner.....i'm sure most people think this is a good thing that this didn't happen......

including 'the forum cheerleaders with che t-shirts'.....

but no, always out for a biased bash rather than being positive about anything the PTP do

Edited August 10, 2011 by nurofiend

[nurofiend]

Thaksin was a billionaire before he was PM. If you knew his kids you'd know that in the time he tripled his family's net worth (estimated) from 2001 to 2005, his son had been caught cheating at Ramkumhaeng University (few details are available as the PM stepped in to hush it); the daughters were at Kaset and Chula. Now, they may be very very clever, but not many heavily partying 20 year olds (or sub 20) who don't work AT ALL are able to triple a father's wealth at the same time.

Yingluck is without doubt a novice; without any former public office experience; imagine if you were voting for a candidate who has no political office experience, how else do you describe them?

Obviously she has SOME experience in life, as a mother, as a business person, as a leader in the corporate sector (debatable how much) but politically she is a novice, hence the huge amount of handholding behind the scenes, as anyone who has had an audience with her in the last 2 weeks is well aware. No decision is made without consulting a group who are supporting her decision making. Who appointed those people...hmmm. They aren't elected that's for sure.

The cabinet for me is quite a bit better than I expected; obviously they aren't that capable and there are some obvious wrong choices, but there are few completely hopeless choices and I must now eat humble pie, having expected Nattawut to get the PM's office job to handle PR; obviously his appointment must have been vetoed by the civil service in that area.

Thirachai and a few others are obviously elected to ensure that key departments will be controlled as per TRT. Good governance requires the right people to look in the right directions. And the reverse is also true.

Whether it is a wise idea to embark on increasing wages by order rather than letting market forces allow appropriate wage levels to be determined (no one in our employ at an office level earns anything like minimum wage as it is for instance) when the world is not in great shape; whether it is a good plan to introduce price controls and subsidise rice farmers via the taxpayer; whether it is a good plan to hand, for instance, Samart, ItalThai and other connected industries a huge wad of taxpayer cash to deliver computer tablets/infrastructure projects to people who don't need them courtesy of the tax payer; whether it is a good idea to reclaim a river mouth acheiving zero benefit to anyone when land isn't even needed....these are all things easily promised and I will be delighted if none of them come to pass, provided the government do their job (which to me would be best left to the same method of governance since late 2004...where the govt doesn't do too much for a variety of reasons, and let's the real market do the talking, instead of childlike idiotic heavy handed government intereference to help their friends).

Anyhow, most of the policies while the middle class will fund them, so it's best that they don't happen.

No one will come out on the streets if the policies don't happen; to think that will happen would be to mistake the red shirt leader's demands for a movement wanting actual long term policy for their benefit.

For instance, many taxi drivers support the red shirt movement. And yet the government policy that would be MOST logical to help them (increased fares, restrictions on number of taxis and quality of taxis, inclusion in social security schemes) is the exact opposite of the trackrecord of the party now in power. And you hardly ever seem them complaining about this! As long as they get a little or feel they are getting a little, that's more than enough to keep the majority of the factory workers and farmers happy enough. And the crumbs will be at a minimum....a raise of some sort in hte minimum wage and rice pledging.

Everything else....not important to them, but important PERHAPS to the party backers. Suppliers of IT equipment for instance ;_) Or construction firms for the various infrastructure projects.....

It is easier to rally for perceived injustice in the constitution and against foreigners (examples) than to rally for an ASEAN common market or deregulation of the energy industry. A minister gives a bit of face time, says wheels are in motion...that's more than enough.

As for the fact none of the red leaders have portfolios...they would have all been personally placated a while ago; I did love the magnanimous statement of one saying he was ready to stand aside and had asked not to be given a post....after he had already been told he wouldn't get one.

No...it's all plain sailing for now in the good ship of PT....happy days for now.

The purpose of this government is to show stability, have a few decent decisions, and look slightly raw yet be able to cross from red shirt extremism to appeal across the board; this will set the stage to then say we have made good steps in the last 12 months, but now we need to bring in experts, the banned 111, back into the fold...and a snap election will be called in around 9-12 months from now. This means that it isn't too important to do everything; rather it's important to plan for being front of mind...and getting to around 350 seats in the house.

If you read his story you will see that he entered into a few business's and went belly up. When he went into politics he was just starting out with the telco company. I can't see where he had time to develop his billionaire status. Where did you get your information from?

all you have to do is read his wiki page to know that he was a billionaire before he was PM

and here if you want quick evidence, a simple search and i found an article form TIME Asia

http://webcache.goog...e=www.google.ie

[rametindallas]

Poorly written article: former billionaire telecoms tycoon-turned-premier Thaksin. Thaksin was a milonaire telcom tycoon-turned-premier-with the help of his children-turned-billionaire. If they are intending to talk in terms that reflect what happened say what really happened. But aren't some assets frozen? So what does that make Mr T? Sounds petty as the writer may not like people who has more money then him?

Yingluck a novice? And what family did she grow up in, together with the position in the company? Yingluck has made her decisions within the time frame's permitted and is quite clear in the aim to re-unite the country. Nothing is being given away at the moment.

Thaksin was a billionaire before he was PM. If you knew his kids you'd know that in the time he tripled his family's net worth (estimated) from 2001 to 2005, his son had been caught cheating at Ramkumhaeng University (few details are available as the PM stepped in to hush it); the daughters were at Kaset and Chula. Now, they may be very very clever, but not many heavily partying 20 year olds (or sub 20) who don't work AT ALL are able to triple a father's wealth at the same time.

Yingluck is without doubt a novice; without any former public office experience; imagine if you were voting for a candidate who has no political office experience, how else do you describe them?

Obviously she has SOME experience in life, as a mother, as a business person, as a leader in the corporate sector (debatable how much) but politically she is a novice, hence the huge amount of handholding behind the scenes, as anyone who has had an audience with her in the last 2 weeks is well aware. No decision is made without consulting a group who are supporting her decision making. Who appointed those people...hmmm. They aren't elected that's for sure.

The cabinet for me is quite a bit better than I expected; obviously they aren't that capable and there are some obvious wrong choices, but there are few completely hopeless choices and I must now eat humble pie, having expected Nattawut to get the PM's office job to handle PR; obviously his appointment must have been vetoed by the civil service in that area.

Thirachai and a few others are obviously elected to ensure that key departments will be controlled as per TRT. Good governance requires the right people to look in the right directions. And the reverse is also true.

Whether it is a wise idea to embark on increasing wages by order rather than letting market forces allow appropriate wage levels to be determined (no one in our employ at an office level earns anything like minimum wage as it is for instance) when the world is not in great shape; whether it is a good plan to introduce price controls and subsidise rice farmers via the taxpayer; whether it is a good plan to hand, for instance, Samart, ItalThai and other connected industries a huge wad of taxpayer cash to deliver computer tablets/infrastructure projects to people who don't need them courtesy of the tax payer; whether it is a good idea to reclaim a river mouth acheiving zero benefit to anyone when land isn't even needed....these are all things easily promised and I will be delighted if none of them come to pass, provided the government do their job (which to me would be best left to the same method of governance since late 2004...where the govt doesn't do too much for a variety of reasons, and let's the real market do the talking, instead of childlike idiotic heavy handed government intereference to help their friends).

Anyhow, most of the policies while the middle class will fund them, so it's best that they don't happen.

No one will come out on the streets if the policies don't happen; to think that will happen would be to mistake the red shirt leader's demands for a movement wanting actual long term policy for their benefit.

For instance, many taxi drivers support the red shirt movement. And yet the government policy that would be MOST logical to help them (increased fares, restrictions on number of taxis and quality of taxis, inclusion in social security schemes) is the exact opposite of the trackrecord of the party now in power. And you hardly ever seem them complaining about this! As long as they get a little or feel they are getting a little, that's more than enough to keep the majority of the factory workers and farmers happy enough. And the crumbs will be at a minimum....a raise of some sort in hte minimum wage and rice pledging.

Everything else....not important to them, but important PERHAPS to the party backers. Suppliers of IT equipment for instance ;_) Or construction firms for the various infrastructure projects.....

It is easier to rally for perceived injustice in the constitution and against foreigners (examples) than to rally for an ASEAN common market or deregulation of the energy industry. A minister gives a bit of face time, says wheels are in motion...that's more than enough.

As for the fact none of the red leaders have portfolios...they would have all been personally placated a while ago; I did love the magnanimous statement of one saying he was ready to stand aside and had asked not to be given a post....after he had already been told he wouldn't get one.

No...it's all plain sailing for now in the good ship of PT....happy days for now.

The purpose of this government is to show stability, have a few decent decisions, and look slightly raw yet be able to cross from red shirt extremism to appeal across the board; this will set the stage to then say we have made good steps in the last 12 months, but now we need to bring in experts, the banned 111, back into the fold...and a snap election will be called in around 9-12 months from now. This means that it isn't too important to do everything; rather it's important to plan for being front of mind...and getting to around 350 seats in the house.

Well stated, Stevo

[rametindallas]

I just wish for Foreign Minister they had found someone of the caliber of Kasit Promiya, the outgoing FM. A diplomat's diplomat and the leading cause of the improved relations with several countries including Germany, Cambodia etc.

And when he was on the stage at the Airport invasion in 2008 he really wowed the PAD crowds with his comments about Hun Sen.

I think they have.

(edit for spelling)

Edited August 10, 2011 by rametindallas

[phiphidon]

The original poster doesn't seem to respond, so I will put it to you - WHAT HAVE THEY DONE? The only thing that springs to mind is winning an election with a package of unworkable, unrealistic ill-considered populist policies most of which are likely to be abandoned.

Well, bearing in mind that Yingluck has been the Thailand PM for approximately 18 hours at the time of writing (minus a few hours for sleep, if that is allowed) I think you could possibly cut her a bit of slack, don't you think? Or am I just being unreasonable?

Apparently your time frame is long enough for visions to describe her performance thus far as:

"but so far she's doing just fine"

.

On the other hand that time frame has also been adequate, apparently, for OzMick to declare in a loud voice "What have they done?", that post being the reason for my response. So, what was your point?

[moe666]

well as the old guy said, So Far So Good

As one poster said we cannot do anything because we are falang, but a few of us have Thai families, friends and relatives who will be affected and impacted by the policies of the new government. Some of us care about the impact these policies will have on these people.

[Buchholz]

Give her a chance gents. Why be so negative. You can always go back to London if it has stopped burning

So do so much agree! But as usual the Thaksin Haters have nothing to say positively about anyone that has anything to do with the Red Shirts or the lower classes and have a lot to say about how faulty Thailand is. It would be a good idea to look at their own countries or is that why they are living in Thailand ??

Thaksin apologists are always careful not to use the term working class and prefer the nebulous terms of 'lower class', 'the poor' etc. It must be a problem for them that Thaksin for the moment is discarding the reds like a used hankie. Why? Because the current strategy post-election is to demonstrate that the new government is a loyal member of the ruling class establishment. The red thugs are really redundant for now. If the red leadership were based on any actual independent class organisation, you might see something interesting but they aren't and remain instead as Thaksin's disgruntled hirelings. An embarrassing scenario for the forum cheerleaders with the Che T-shirts, but a smirk from everybody else.

Thanks for that.

No one quite cuts through the newbie-ish muck and exposes the core issues quite the same.

.

[mca]

first off, i'm no thaksin apologist....and you can go through my posts if you want to see. i don't think he's a good guy

Don't worry about it. If Yoshi doesn't use " Thaksin apologist" at least once in his posts his head falls off. It's simply a case of self preservation.

[Colin Yai]

Poorly written article: former billionaire telecoms tycoon-turned-premier Thaksin. Thaksin was a milonaire telcom tycoon-turned-premier-with the help of his children-turned-billionaire. If they are intending to talk in terms that reflect what happened say what really happened. But aren't some assets frozen? So what does that make Mr T? Sounds petty as the writer may not like people who has more money then him?

Yingluck a novice? And what family did she grow up in, together with the position in the company? Yingluck has made her decisions within the time frame's permitted and is quite clear in the aim to re-unite the country. Nothing is being given away at the moment.

Thaksin was a billionaire before he was PM. If you knew his kids you'd know that in the time he tripled his family's net worth (estimated) from 2001 to 2005, his son had been caught cheating at Ramkumhaeng University (few details are available as the PM stepped in to hush it); the daughters were at Kaset and Chula. Now, they may be very very clever, but not many heavily partying 20 year olds (or sub 20) who don't work AT ALL are able to triple a father's wealth at the same time.

Yingluck is without doubt a novice; without any former public office experience; imagine if you were voting for a candidate who has no political office experience, how else do you describe them?

Obviously she has SOME experience in life, as a mother, as a business person, as a leader in the corporate sector (debatable how much) but politically she is a novice, hence the huge amount of handholding behind the scenes, as anyone who has had an audience with her in the last 2 weeks is well aware. No decision is made without consulting a group who are supporting her decision making. Who appointed those people...hmmm. They aren't elected that's for sure.

The cabinet for me is quite a bit better than I expected; obviously they aren't that capable and there are some obvious wrong choices, but there are few completely hopeless choices and I must now eat humble pie, having expected Nattawut to get the PM's office job to handle PR; obviously his appointment must have been vetoed by the civil service in that area.

Thirachai and a few others are obviously elected to ensure that key departments will be controlled as per TRT. Good governance requires the right people to look in the right directions. And the reverse is also true.

Whether it is a wise idea to embark on increasing wages by order rather than letting market forces allow appropriate wage levels to be determined (no one in our employ at an office level earns anything like minimum wage as it is for instance) when the world is not in great shape; whether it is a good plan to introduce price controls and subsidise rice farmers via the taxpayer; whether it is a good plan to hand, for instance, Samart, ItalThai and other connected industries a huge wad of taxpayer cash to deliver computer tablets/infrastructure projects to people who don't need them courtesy of the tax payer; whether it is a good idea to reclaim a river mouth acheiving zero benefit to anyone when land isn't even needed....these are all things easily promised and I will be delighted if none of them come to pass, provided the government do their job (which to me would be best left to the same method of governance since late 2004...where the govt doesn't do too much for a variety of reasons, and let's the real market do the talking, instead of childlike idiotic heavy handed government intereference to help their friends).

Anyhow, most of the policies while the middle class will fund them, so it's best that they don't happen.

No one will come out on the streets if the policies don't happen; to think that will happen would be to mistake the red shirt leader's demands for a movement wanting actual long term policy for their benefit.

For instance, many taxi drivers support the red shirt movement. And yet the government policy that would be MOST logical to help them (increased fares, restrictions on number of taxis and quality of taxis, inclusion in social security schemes) is the exact opposite of the trackrecord of the party now in power. And you hardly ever seem them complaining about this! As long as they get a little or feel they are getting a little, that's more than enough to keep the majority of the factory workers and farmers happy enough. And the crumbs will be at a minimum....a raise of some sort in hte minimum wage and rice pledging.

Everything else....not important to them, but important PERHAPS to the party backers. Suppliers of IT equipment for instance ;_) Or construction firms for the various infrastructure projects.....

It is easier to rally for perceived injustice in the constitution and against foreigners (examples) than to rally for an ASEAN common market or deregulation of the energy industry. A minister gives a bit of face time, says wheels are in motion...that's more than enough.

As for the fact none of the red leaders have portfolios...they would have all been personally placated a while ago; I did love the magnanimous statement of one saying he was ready to stand aside and had asked not to be given a post....after he had already been told he wouldn't get one.

No...it's all plain sailing for now in the good ship of PT....happy days for now.

The purpose of this government is to show stability, have a few decent decisions, and look slightly raw yet be able to cross from red shirt extremism to appeal across the board; this will set the stage to then say we have made good steps in the last 12 months, but now we need to bring in experts, the banned 111, back into the fold...and a snap election will be called in around 9-12 months from now. This means that it isn't too important to do everything; rather it's important to plan for being front of mind...and getting to around 350 seats in the house.

If you read his story you will see that he entered into a few business's and went belly up. When he went into politics he was just starting out with the telco company. I can't see where he had time to develop his billionaire status. Where did you get your information from?

all you have to do is read his wiki page to know that he was a billionaire before he was PM

I heard he made billions (from a very good source) when the baht crashed in 97 , the person who told me it was like betting your life savings on a horse that had already crossed the winning line!.

[GeorgeO]

When will they take to the streets protesting the ruleing elites. heheheheheh love it you fools got jacked after going to the barricades for your daddy

Hey Moe, It was the Russian,s who coined the phrase "useful idiots" to the Communist sympathizer,s in the West , I just wonder if Thaksin thinks the same of the Red Shirts!,BTW "jacked" is not a suitable word ,more like well and truly "shafted" is far more appropriate ,LOL.

A quick aside, but the reporters need to keep up to date with things, as opposed to cut-and-paste regurgitation of their favourite lines.

The reference to the "ruling elite" is a prime example. Someone should tell them that there have been changes over recent weeks!

[Ricardo]

it's hilarious how ye all make fun of this, when ye were the ones complaining about how the red shirt leaders were probably going to get in

ridiculous really

And they did get in, high on the party-list, so they're not going to 'rock the boat' now, if they see multiple-retractions of pre-election promises, it's only the poor who get shafted time-after-time.

But there is always humour to be found, in seeing politicians run-for-cover or back-peddling faster-than the 'Road-Runner', once they've got the power they sought. Making fun of them, as they do this, ("it was only a campaign speech" for example ?) might be like shooting fish in a barrel, but also serves usefully to expose the hypocrisy of it all !

So why not use humour, and give ourselves a laugh, at the same time ?

Edited August 11, 2011 by Ricardo

[Colin Yai]

it's hilarious how ye all make fun of this, when ye were the ones complaining about how the red shirt leaders were probably going to get in

ridiculous really

And they did get in, high on the party-list, so they're not going to 'rock the boat' now, if they see multiple-retractions of pre-election promises, it's only the poor who get shafted time-after-time.

But there is always humour to be found, in seeing politicians run-for-cover or back-peddling faster-than the 'Road-Runner', once they've got the power they sought. Making fun of them, as they do this, ("it was only a campaign speech" for example ?) might be like shooting fish in a barrel, but also serves usefully to expose the hypocrisy of it all !

So why not use humour, and give ourselves a laugh, at the same time ?

The Road Runner eh, hmm we all Know who Wiley E Cayote is don't we!. Edited August 11, 2011 by Colin Yai

[ozziebloke]

Give her a chance gents. Why be so negative. You can always go back to London if it has stopped burning

So do so much agree! But as usual the Thaksin Haters have nothing to say positively about anyone that has anything to do with the Red Shirts or the lower classes and have a lot to say about how faulty Thailand is. It would be a good idea to look at their own countries or is that why they are living in Thailand ??

Thaksin apologists are always careful not to use the term working class and prefer the nebulous terms of 'lower class', 'the poor' etc. It must be a problem for them that Thaksin for the moment is discarding the reds like a used hankie. Why? Because the current strategy post-election is to demonstrate that the new government is a loyal member of the ruling class establishment. The red thugs are really redundant for now. If the red leadership were based on any actual independent class organisation, you might see something interesting but they aren't and remain instead as Thaksin's disgruntled hirelings. An embarrassing scenario for the forum cheerleaders with the Che T-shirts, but a smirk from everybody else.

Thanks for that.

No one quite cuts through the newbie-ish muck and exposes the core issues quite the same.

.

I cant see what is nebulous about saying lower classes as a description as to be different to Upper class (Upper-class status commonly derived from the social position of one's family and not from one's own achievements or wealth. Much of the population that comprised the upper class consisted of aristocrats, ruling families, titled people, and religious hierarchs.) As defined in the dictionary! And your reply was off the topic that i was referring to posters as yourself should look at your own country and how your country is performing instead of continually having a go at Thailand and finding any fault no matter how small and i was asking why these negative posters chose to live in Thailand if it is so bad. And buchholz my newbie-ish muck ? just because i havnt been on here posting on every subject so as to become an advanced member dosnt make me a Newbie as you like to quote.I have been a member longer than yourself

[Crushdepth]

I cant see what is nebulous about saying lower classes as a description as to be different to Upper class (Upper-class status commonly derived from the social position of one's family and not from one's own achievements or wealth. Much of the population that comprised the upper class consisted of aristocrats, ruling families, titled people, and religious hierarchs.) As defined in the dictionary! And your reply was off the topic that i was referring to posters as yourself should look at your own country and how your country is performing instead of continually having a go at Thailand and finding any fault no matter how small and i was asking why these negative posters chose to live in Thailand if it is so bad. And buchholz my newbie-ish muck ? just because i havnt been on here posting on every subject so as to become an advanced member dosnt make me a Newbie as you like to quote.I have been a member longer than yourself

Some people want to see Thailand become a better place. "If you don't like it go home" is usually heard from people willing to tolerate corruption and injustice because they are not the victims of it.

[scorecard]

Poorly written article: former billionaire telecoms tycoon-turned-premier Thaksin. Thaksin was a milonaire telcom tycoon-turned-premier-with the help of his children-turned-billionaire. If they are intending to talk in terms that reflect what happened say what really happened. But aren't some assets frozen? So what does that make Mr T? Sounds petty as the writer may not like people who has more money then him?

Yingluck a novice? And what family did she grow up in, together with the position in the company? Yingluck has made her decisions within the time frame's permitted and is quite clear in the aim to re-unite the country. Nothing is being given away at the moment.

Thaksin was a billionaire before he was PM. If you knew his kids you'd know that in the time he tripled his family's net worth (estimated) from 2001 to 2005, his son had been caught cheating at Ramkumhaeng University (few details are available as the PM stepped in to hush it); the daughters were at Kaset and Chula. Now, they may be very very clever, but not many heavily partying 20 year olds (or sub 20) who don't work AT ALL are able to triple a father's wealth at the same time.

Yingluck is without doubt a novice; without any former public office experience; imagine if you were voting for a candidate who has no political office experience, how else do you describe them?

Obviously she has SOME experience in life, as a mother, as a business person, as a leader in the corporate sector (debatable how much) but politically she is a novice, hence the huge amount of handholding behind the scenes, as anyone who has had an audience with her in the last 2 weeks is well aware. No decision is made without consulting a group who are supporting her decision making. Who appointed those people...hmmm. They aren't elected that's for sure.

The cabinet for me is quite a bit better than I expected; obviously they aren't that capable and there are some obvious wrong choices, but there are few completely hopeless choices and I must now eat humble pie, having expected Nattawut to get the PM's office job to handle PR; obviously his appointment must have been vetoed by the civil service in that area.

Thirachai and a few others are obviously elected to ensure that key departments will be controlled as per TRT. Good governance requires the right people to look in the right directions. And the reverse is also true.

Whether it is a wise idea to embark on increasing wages by order rather than letting market forces allow appropriate wage levels to be determined (no one in our employ at an office level earns anything like minimum wage as it is for instance) when the world is not in great shape; whether it is a good plan to introduce price controls and subsidise rice farmers via the taxpayer; whether it is a good plan to hand, for instance, Samart, ItalThai and other connected industries a huge wad of taxpayer cash to deliver computer tablets/infrastructure projects to people who don't need them courtesy of the tax payer; whether it is a good idea to reclaim a river mouth acheiving zero benefit to anyone when land isn't even needed....these are all things easily promised and I will be delighted if none of them come to pass, provided the government do their job (which to me would be best left to the same method of governance since late 2004...where the govt doesn't do too much for a variety of reasons, and let's the real market do the talking, instead of childlike idiotic heavy handed government intereference to help their friends).

Anyhow, most of the policies while the middle class will fund them, so it's best that they don't happen.

No one will come out on the streets if the policies don't happen; to think that will happen would be to mistake the red shirt leader's demands for a movement wanting actual long term policy for their benefit.

For instance, many taxi drivers support the red shirt movement. And yet the government policy that would be MOST logical to help them (increased fares, restrictions on number of taxis and quality of taxis, inclusion in social security schemes) is the exact opposite of the trackrecord of the party now in power. And you hardly ever seem them complaining about this! As long as they get a little or feel they are getting a little, that's more than enough to keep the majority of the factory workers and farmers happy enough. And the crumbs will be at a minimum....a raise of some sort in hte minimum wage and rice pledging.

Everything else....not important to them, but important PERHAPS to the party backers. Suppliers of IT equipment for instance ;_) Or construction firms for the various infrastructure projects.....

It is easier to rally for perceived injustice in the constitution and against foreigners (examples) than to rally for an ASEAN common market or deregulation of the energy industry. A minister gives a bit of face time, says wheels are in motion...that's more than enough.

As for the fact none of the red leaders have portfolios...they would have all been personally placated a while ago; I did love the magnanimous statement of one saying he was ready to stand aside and had asked not to be given a post....after he had already been told he wouldn't get one.

No...it's all plain sailing for now in the good ship of PT....happy days for now.

The purpose of this government is to show stability, have a few decent decisions, and look slightly raw yet be able to cross from red shirt extremism to appeal across the board; this will set the stage to then say we have made good steps in the last 12 months, but now we need to bring in experts, the banned 111, back into the fold...and a snap election will be called in around 9-12 months from now. This means that it isn't too important to do everything; rather it's important to plan for being front of mind...and getting to around 350 seats in the house.

If you read his story you will see that he entered into a few business's and went belly up. When he went into politics he was just starting out with the telco company. I can't see where he had time to develop his billionaire status. Where did you get your information from?

And what seems to be forgotten is that the paymaster (after several business failures) got an exclusive telecoms license handed to him on a plate from a thug general, one of the leaders of the previous coup when 200+ totally unarmed civilians were shot down and killed by the army and their bodies whisked away never to be seen again. Further at that time there was a strong policy that all telecoms licenses had to be held by state agencies. No announcement about new policy, no tenders, just suddenly thaksin gets the license handed to him. He therefore had a monopoly and until there was some competition, many years later, he charged exorbitant rates, and yes he made billions.

[moe666]

I still wonder at the people who continue to overlook the corruption that revolved around Thaksin and his governments: Implemented laws that allowed him to sale company without paying taxes, implement laws making it harder for the opposition and ensureing continued rule by him and his party, sweet heart deal for his wife to buy huge amount of land in central Bangkok. Considering the lawlessness of his time in office I have to wonder at the mental stability of those who continue to support him or is it just greed.

[scorecard]

I cant see what is nebulous about saying lower classes as a description as to be different to Upper class (Upper-class status commonly derived from the social position of one's family and not from one's own achievements or wealth. Much of the population that comprised the upper class consisted of aristocrats, ruling families, titled people, and religious hierarchs.) As defined in the dictionary! And your reply was off the topic that i was referring to posters as yourself should look at your own country and how your country is performing instead of continually having a go at Thailand and finding any fault no matter how small and i was asking why these negative posters chose to live in Thailand if it is so bad. And buchholz my newbie-ish muck ? just because i havnt been on here posting on every subject so as to become an advanced member dosnt make me a Newbie as you like to quote.I have been a member longer than yourself

Some people want to see Thailand become a better place. "If you don't like it go home" is usually heard from people willing to tolerate corruption and injustice because they are not the victims of it.

So true, and some of us want to see Thailand become a better place (equal justice, capable and sincere people heading ministries, and more) because we have children here and in my case children and grand-children. I most certainly hope that when my grand-children are adults they will see a much better Thailand.

And if nobody pushes for a better Thailand then the incapable insincere rabble we see now will still be raiding the moneybox big time with no conscience and the poor will still be downtrodden.

Edited August 11, 2011 by scorecard

[ozziebloke]

I cant see what is nebulous about saying lower classes as a description as to be different to Upper class (Upper-class status commonly derived from the social position of one's family and not from one's own achievements or wealth. Much of the population that comprised the upper class consisted of aristocrats, ruling families, titled people, and religious hierarchs.) As defined in the dictionary! And your reply was off the topic that i was referring to posters as yourself should look at your own country and how your country is performing instead of continually having a go at Thailand and finding any fault no matter how small and i was asking why these negative posters chose to live in Thailand if it is so bad. And buchholz my newbie-ish muck ? just because i havnt been on here posting on every subject so as to become an advanced member dosnt make me a Newbie as you like to quote.I have been a member longer than yourself

Some people want to see Thailand become a better place. "If you don't like it go home" is usually heard from people willing to tolerate corruption and injustice because they are not the victims of it.

So true, and some of us want to see Thailand become a better place (equal justice, capable and sincere people heading ministries, and more) because we have children here and in my case children and grand-children. I most certainly hope that when my grand-children are adults they will see a much better Thailand.

And if nobody pushes for a better Thailand then the incapable insincere rabble we see now will still be raiding the moneybox big time with no conscience and the poor will still be downtrodden.

I can agree with both of you and i too have a kid, And i hate the corruption that is rife in government departments but my arguement was about those who are posting comments tearing the government down before they have even started and I'm not endorsing the government with my comments but they were elected democratically by the majority. And the same posters putting all redshirt supporters in the same basket! I do want to see Thailand advance and become a better place for my kids and grandkids ! I didnt say (if you dont like go home) I said why do these posters chose to live in Thailand if it is so bad, Referring to what is happenning in London and the U.S and Europe.

[chaoyang]

Hell I feel sorry for all those that express negativity willy nilly without any thoughts or ability to being proactive and creative and see the good actions that are already happening.

It's easier to be critical than be correct.

Give the Lady a chance...... its easy to say "i told you so" later if she does get it wrong......but so far she's doing just fine with her stated aims during the election run-up.

But whatever.....as farangs we are powerless, there is not a damned thing we can do to change anything.

Settle back in ur armchair pick up ur beer and .......Enjoy the ride.

Now watch the Flames arrive.

Agree completely.

Having lived in Thailand when Thaksin -- Mr. Hub and Crackdown -- was in power, I'm no fan. But clearly the country needs to settle down. And why all these foreigners posting here are such fans of the Democrats is beyond me. The newly elected government offers the prospect for moving beyond the old tired old model that the Dems tried to keep on life support and is well past its expiration date. Give PT a chance.

[Dag]

I do not like Thaksin.....but Thailand was better when he was running it......so if it takes a few cronnies and him to become mega wealthy from it.....so be it and let him rule again because everything was running better then.

Let him rule, become wealthier than any person in Thailand and let everyone else prosper to their own ability also.....after all it is the Thai resources he is squireling away, not mine.

[whybother]

I do not like Thaksin.....but Thailand was better when he was running it......so if it takes a few cronnies and him to become mega wealthy from it.....so be it and let him rule again because everything was running better then.

Let him rule, become wealthier than any person in Thailand and let everyone else prosper to their own ability also.....after all it is the Thai resources he is squireling away, not mine.

"I do not like Thaksin.....but"

That Thailand was a better place then may have had a lot to do with the booming global economy. Yingluck is going to have her work cut out for her to implement all her promises AND deal with the crappy global economy.

[tigermonkey]

The foreign ministers post goes to a relative unknown. And this is after one of the worst five year periods in the nations history. The nations reputation worldwide is in tatters, and lets appoint an unknown to try to repair that image. Smart move. Either it means there is zero regard for what the world thinks, or the cronyism is so strong they could not appoint someone else. The entire world laughed when Kasit sat down with Hun Sen. Hun Sen ate him for lunch, and then spit out the bones. Now, another potentially incompetent man in that post. I wonder if he speaks good english? Amusing Thailand.

(quote)

Yes, Thailand may be amusing, but the pathways of your logic are far more amusing -- you have concluded that being a relative unknown equates to being potentially incompetent. You have further concluded that appointing a relative unknown equates to "cronyism" and " zero regard for what the world thinks". You conclude by intimating that " good english" would make him competent. These are very interesting leaps of logic.

OK, you want a well known Thai who speaks some english --- how about Sinbi Taewoong -- he would exactly fit the needs of your logic.

..but then perhaps Suraphong has some skills of diplomacy, intelligence and logic which have never been showcased ?

(quote)

Wow, you are taking an awful lot for granted. Do you know anything about this guy, that you can share with me, and the readers of this post? I have spent hours trying to find out who he is. Other than being an MP, and a financier for the campaign, I cannot find anything. Please share your wisdom with us. We need to know. It is a very important post, and he will need to work very, very hard to help repair Thailand's damaged reputation around the world.

I take nothing for granted and have no special knowledge of the man. Unlike you, I can not share that he is "potenially incompetent" or potentially competent. I am afraid that I do not have "wisdom " to share with you, as you have shared your "wisdom" with all of us. Unlike you, I can not judge the unknown.

I do agree that " it is a very important post, and he will need to work very, very hard to help repair Thailand's damaged reputation around the world " -- even relative unkowns have been known to "work very, very hard".

[kraplung]

It would appear the kingdom's new Foreign Minister, a close ally of the senyai not only didn't want the job but has no experience in foreign affairs.

The only thing missing from this government is the sound effects machine telling us when to laugh!

[nurofiend]

it's hilarious how ye all make fun of this, when ye were the ones complaining about how the red shirt leaders were probably going to get in

ridiculous really

And they did get in, high on the party-list, so they're not going to 'rock the boat' now, if they see multiple-retractions of pre-election promises, it's only the poor who get shafted time-after-time.

But there is always humour to be found, in seeing politicians run-for-cover or back-peddling faster-than the 'Road-Runner', once they've got the power they sought. Making fun of them, as they do this, ("it was only a campaign speech" for example ?) might be like shooting fish in a barrel, but also serves usefully to expose the hypocrisy of it all !

So why not use humour, and give ourselves a laugh, at the same time ?

nah, i'm 100% for having a laugh about some of the 'amazing' acts we see in politics....my post didn't mean 'don't make fun of anyone' at all, more of that i say

i just thought it was a bit hypocritical of people that were expecting the red shirt leaders to be given seats and would have been in here in uproar if it happened, instead they mock the opposite move

in other words no matter what action they took, they couldn't do it the right way for anyone here

but yeah, my point wasn't about humour being used

[hanuman1]

it's hilarious how ye all make fun of this, when ye were the ones complaining about how the red shirt leaders were probably going to get in

ridiculous really

And they did get in, high on the party-list, so they're not going to 'rock the boat' now, if they see multiple-retractions of pre-election promises, it's only the poor who get shafted time-after-time.

But there is always humour to be found, in seeing politicians run-for-cover or back-peddling faster-than the 'Road-Runner', once they've got the power they sought. Making fun of them, as they do this, ("it was only a campaign speech" for example ?) might be like shooting fish in a barrel, but also serves usefully to expose the hypocrisy of it all !

So why not use humour, and give ourselves a laugh, at the same time ?

nah, i'm 100% for having a laugh about some of the 'amazing' acts we see in politics....my post didn't mean 'don't make fun of anyone' at all, more of that i say

i just thought it was a bit hypocritical of people that were expecting the red shirt leaders to be given seats and would have been in here in uproar if it happened, instead they mock the opposite move

in other words no matter what action they took, they couldn't do it the right way for anyone here

but yeah, my point wasn't about humour being used

Couldn't agree more.

People still don't get that the red shirt movement didn't come into being for the purposes of becoming powerful in Parliament. The clue here is that from the outset they didn't form their own political party. Instead, I believe they see themselves as a pressure group that will call to account any government including the PTP which doesn't instill a sense of equality in the general running of the country and in doing so, improving the living standards of a large section of Thai society whose most valuable asset is probably their vote.

The UDD has some PTP MPs now as recognition of the votes they brought to the PTP but if anyone is so narrow minded as to still think the UDD and PTP are birds of a feather, they will see the UDD members speaking out against PTP measures should they differ too widely from what UDD supporters believe in.

It is not unimaginable to believe that a couple of years down the line the UDD may be demonstrating for the ousting of the PTP government to the benefit of the Dems or other opposition.

So basically, all those who think the 'reds got shafted' by PTP should look at the possibility that they might actually have been rewarded commensurately with their contribution to the PTP. After all the reds already mainly got what they wanted from the PTP - the chance to get rid of the Dems. Having some of their leaders put on the PTP party list was probably the least the PTP could do and it is just as well they didn't give them more, for the sake of stability in government and the nation at large.

So let the naysayers who condemn and jeer at anything the red shirt movement does just for the sake of repeating a mantra either have a quick chat with a Thai red shirt supporter to find out the current mood on the street, or immediately renew their membership of 'Farangs Unreservedly Claiming Knowledge Without Insight into Thai Society'.

Edited August 11, 2011 by hanuman1

[moe666]

it's hilarious how ye all make fun of this, when ye were the ones complaining about how the red shirt leaders were probably going to get in

ridiculous really

And they did get in, high on the party-list, so they're not going to 'rock the boat' now, if they see multiple-retractions of pre-election promises, it's only the poor who get shafted time-after-time.

But there is always humour to be found, in seeing politicians run-for-cover or back-peddling faster-than the 'Road-Runner', once they've got the power they sought. Making fun of them, as they do this, ("it was only a campaign speech" for example ?) might be like shooting fish in a barrel, but also serves usefully to expose the hypocrisy of it all !

So why not use humour, and give ourselves a laugh, at the same time ?

nah, i'm 100% for having a laugh about some of the 'amazing' acts we see in politics....my post didn't mean 'don't make fun of anyone' at all, more of that i say

i just thought it was a bit hypocritical of people that were expecting the red shirt leaders to be given seats and would have been in here in uproar if it happened, instead they mock the opposite move

in other words no matter what action they took, they couldn't do it the right way for anyone here

but yeah, my point wasn't about humour being used

Couldn't agree more.

People still don't get that the red shirt movement didn't come into being for the purposes of becoming powerful in Parliament. The clue here is that from the outset they didn't form their own political party. Instead, I believe they see themselves as a pressure group that will call to account any government including the PTP which doesn't instill a sense of equality in the general running of the country and in doing so, improving the living standards of a large section of Thai society whose most valuable asset is probably their vote.

The UDD has some PTP MPs now as recognition of the votes they brought to the PTP but if anyone is so narrow minded as to still think the UDD and PTP are birds of a feather, they will see the UDD members speaking out against PTP measures should they differ too widely from what UDD supporters believe in.

It is not unimaginable to believe that a couple of years down the line the UDD may be demonstrating for the ousting of the PTP government to the benefit of the Dems or other opposition.

So basically, all those who think the 'reds got shafted' by PTP should look at the possibility that they might actually have been rewarded commensurately with their contribution to the PTP. After all the reds already mainly got what they wanted from the PTP - the chance to get rid of the Dems. Having some of their leaders put on the PTP party list was probably the least the PTP could do and it is just as well they didn't give them more, for the sake of stability in government and the nation at large.

So let the naysayers who condemn and jeer at anything the red shirt movement does just for the sake of repeating a mantra either have a quick chat with a Thai red shirt supporter to find out the current mood on the street, or immediately renew their membership of 'Farangs Unreservedly Claiming Knowledge Without Insight into Thai Society'.

I think you should talk to one of the red shirt leaders the supporters are just canon fodder for them, Also figure out who pays the bills for this bunch and who in the movement got most of the money.They will be discarded when the square head gets all that he wants and they are no longer needed.

[patjem]

Hell I feel sorry for all those that express negativity willy nilly without any thoughts or ability to being proactive and creative and see the good actions that are already happening.

It's easier to be critical than be correct.

Give the Lady a chance...... its easy to say "i told you so" later if she does get it wrong......but so far she's doing just fine with her stated aims during the election run-up.

But whatever.....as farangs we are powerless, there is not a damned thing we can do to change anything.

Settle back in ur armchair pick up ur beer and .......Enjoy the ride.

Now watch the Flames arrive.

Well stated and well worth repeating.

Agreed.

Don't know about you but I don't remember reading a single post from the usual suspects here expressing any positivity or any compliments to anything that Yingluck or PT has done. All I read is the usual childish, immature and inane rants. Nothing but criticism from our armchair experts, most of whom who are venting their anger over their own underachievements.

There might be a slight chance of that if YS or PT had done anything positive so far.