Usa Vs Thailand

[thaibeachlovers]

I've been back in the U.S. for close to 3 months, and, frankly, it's scaring me. Don't misunderstand me. I love the country, and, especially, the city of my birth. However, things have changed. Without going into many comparisons, just the fact that Michelle Bachman can win an election of any kind is frightening to me. I gave up on voting when Nixon got elected. I watch the national news, and it's funnier than Comedy Central. I took the train the other day, and over 50% of the people had their heads buried in their cell phones. They seem lost to me.

Anyhow, I'm leaving soon, and there are other factors for that. I'll be back in Thailand, but I'm not sure for how long. What with the economic situation here, and what's going on in Europe, I'm intending to try a country with a military junta. A solid military junta.

I've been following it on Fox, and at this stage it doesn't look as if Bachman has any chance of winning. What is scary is that Trump looks like standing as an independent, and if he splits the vote obama might get back in.

[KeyserSoze01]

We don't call it a bribes, we call it rules.

Well put! Bribes here do make many things "easier".

Bonobo: I lived in SD for many years. Miss it terribly, except for the traffic and high cost of living. Home prices are very expensive and eating out ain't cheap either. Not to mention that 9%+ ding or so on your income. But it is a very beautiful city. A bit cool, especially in the winter. I didn't swim in the ocean there very much!

Portland is pretty dreary for me. I've heard great things about Austin, but aren't the property taxes quite high?

I've looked into shipping my stuff here and with the customs issue, not sure it is worth it. If you figure it out cheaply, let me know!

If I live part time in the US, I can live in Portland during the beautiful summer months, here in Thailand the rest of the time. And Texas is the third cheapest place as far as total taxes go (with Austin being a far more liberal leaning city than anywhere else in Texas.) I need a vibrant social scene (restaurants, grocers, museums, etc) access to a VA, and no taxes on military retirement pay. And since I am losing my house in San Diego, I might as well pick my legal US residence now.

As far as shipping my goods, I have read that there are some provisions for people on work permits, but I have not gotten to the bottom if that is the case in reality when your container is sitting there at the docks.

Why buy property in the US, or anywhere for that matter? All it does is tie up your capital and eat away at your funds with maintenance, taxes, insurance, etc... Unless you are planning on leasing the property out to offset the expense, although that has another set of issues to consider, plus this defeats the purpose of having a place to stay while in the US. Leasing / renting is far more cost effective and offers you to capacity to live in different regions of the US that you might want to explore. Owning property ties you to a place, while renting gives you options. Then there is the elephant in the room, which is what has happened to the US real estate market in the last few years.

As far as your house full of "stuff", sell it or give it to family. Getting rid of your "stuff" is a cathartic experience. Your stuff is an anchor around your neck which causes you to believe that you need a place to keep it. I had three households full of stuff that I felt that I could not part with. Through much angst, I got it down to one. I then moved cities a couple times and each time as I was packing / unpacking items, I began to question just why I was keeping all this crap. It boiled down to sentimental value and family heirlooms. The solution was simple once I changed my mindset as I sold what I did not give to family. My "stuff" in the US will now fit into a single Pod container, which has minimal storage costs when I travel.

George Carlin's view on "stuff"

[lannarebirth]

Coincidently, as this thread was resurrected, I was online looking at where to buy a house in the US. My home in San Diego just sold as a result of a divorce decree, and I am trying to decide what to do. Due to the huge legal fees, even if I sort of "won" my divorce case (coupled with losing well into the 6 figures when a debtor company to me just filed for bankruptcy), I don't have enough to really buy a good place in San Diego, so I am exploring other options.

I "retire" in 6 years. And now I have a house full of stuff that I have to get out of that house by February. So do I pack it in a container and bring it here? Do I store it there?

My plan had been to live in both Thailand and the USA. Both offer me things that the other does not. In the US, I get better food, free medical care (from the VA), much better tv (yes, I am a bit of a junkie), better traffic, better movies, better service, better internet, better variety of life. cheaper cars, cheaper gas, full insurance coverage, laws and regulations which are uniformally administered, much better redress for bad products/services/etc, and I can date more women with a higher degree of commonality.

In Thailand, I get a tax break for working in a foreign country, many items are less expensive, I have good friends, I like quite a bit of the culture, I am more attractive to more women who still want to have kids (never having any with my ex, I do want that), I like differences (and living in an "exotic" land fills a need for that), and I find it mentally stimulating.

So now I have to decide what I want to do. Is my plan to live in both countries when I retire still alive? If it is, do I step down from a nice home to a condo in San Diego, or do I buy a house in Portland or Austin now while prices and interest rates are low and rent it out for six years? Or do I just give up on the US and make my bed entirely here in Thailand, shipping all my personal effects here?

To be honest, I don't know what I want.

Try Flagstaff or Sedona and spend your winters here. That's what I'd do if I could, given children in school concerns, since prices haven't come down a bit in Incline Village.

[thaibeachlovers]

We don't call it a bribes, we call it rules.

Well put! Bribes here do make many things "easier".

Bonobo: I lived in SD for many years. Miss it terribly, except for the traffic and high cost of living. Home prices are very expensive and eating out ain't cheap either. Not to mention that 9%+ ding or so on your income. But it is a very beautiful city. A bit cool, especially in the winter. I didn't swim in the ocean there very much!

Portland is pretty dreary for me. I've heard great things about Austin, but aren't the property taxes quite high?

I've looked into shipping my stuff here and with the customs issue, not sure it is worth it. If you figure it out cheaply, let me know!

If I live part time in the US, I can live in Portland during the beautiful summer months, here in Thailand the rest of the time. And Texas is the third cheapest place as far as total taxes go (with Austin being a far more liberal leaning city than anywhere else in Texas.) I need a vibrant social scene (restaurants, grocers, museums, etc) access to a VA, and no taxes on military retirement pay. And since I am losing my house in San Diego, I might as well pick my legal US residence now.

As far as shipping my goods, I have read that there are some provisions for people on work permits, but I have not gotten to the bottom if that is the case in reality when your container is sitting there at the docks.

Why buy property in the US, or anywhere for that matter? All it does is tie up your capital and eat away at your funds with maintenance, taxes, insurance, etc... Unless you are planning on leasing the property out to offset the expense, although that has another set of issues to consider, plus this defeats the purpose of having a place to stay while in the US. Leasing / renting is far more cost effective and offers you to capacity to live in different regions of the US that you might want to explore. Owning property ties you to a place, while renting gives you options. Then there is the elephant in the room, which is what has happened to the US real estate market in the last few years.

As far as your house full of "stuff", sell it or give it to family. Getting rid of your "stuff" is a cathartic experience. Your stuff is an anchor around your neck which causes you to believe that you need a place to keep it. I had three households full of stuff that I felt that I could not part with. Through much angst, I got it down to one. I then moved cities a couple times and each time as I was packing / unpacking items, I began to question just why I was keeping all this crap. It boiled down to sentimental value and family heirlooms. The solution was simple once I changed my mindset as I sold what I did not give to family. My "stuff" in the US will now fit into a single Pod container, which has minimal storage costs when I travel.

George Carlin's view on "stuff"

I find if I get rid of anything, I need it almost immediately! I now have everything permanently stored, and sleep easy knowing I will never need any of it ever again.

However, if I could live my life over again, I'd have no "stuff" at all.

Computers are good for getting rid of paper "stuff". Just scan it and keep on the hard drive ( backed up of course ).

[xthAi76s]

100% agree with some things, but not all. Have you tried running a biz here? A food cart? Impossible unless you bribe the police, and even then, pretty much impossible. The work rules here are very strict. No so in the US.

As far a competition here, it's no holds barred. Somebody can open up shop right next to you with the exact same name and products. Nothing you can do. Some have done very well here in Thailand, many have not.

I agree the US has gone overboard on rules and regulations, but many are very, very good. Like drunk driving, medical malpractice, food safety, etc.

I think it is likely easier for a Thai to open a business in the USA than for a farang to open a business in Thailand. But the millions of food carts suggest it is quite easy for a Thai to start their own small food business. I think the bribes are just the grease to get things going, and it turns out cheaper and faster.

But the USA has evolved beyond simple bribery to making it part of the system. One has to hire a union worker and pay a minimum amount of hours to carry a ten pound package from your van to a display stand in McCormick Place for an exhibition there.

A friend wanted to open a hot dog stand in Houston, it would cost him $25,000 up front because of all the regulations. Another friend had a small consulting company with less than 50 people, he got sued 4 times in less than 4 years, and he is a very careful CEO / manager. He won all the law suits, but a less skillfull person would have had to pay up. The only one that made money in those situations were the lawyers, and guess who makes the rules in the USA?

Now we have speed traps with camera detectors and $100 – $1000 tickets.

We in the USA we have to hire a lawyer to do virtually any sort of business at all, and anyone with any sort of money has a lawyer on retainer. All of our elected officials are also lawyers.

We don't call it a bribes, we call it rules.

Yes, over regulated perhaps, BUT all that regulation is what brings us things like

1) safer food

2) safer buildings and other structures

3) better police protection

4) better property protection

5) better personal injury protection

6) better workplace protection

7) better child protection

8) better education

9) better overall individual liberties

etc

The laws are what made western society great. I don't get down on them too much, but I certainly to empathize with you as to their burden.

[Fookhaht]

As a Brit who lives in America and has also lived in Thailand , i can tell you that all 3 places have there upsides and downsides to boot , i think the only beneficial part to living in Thailand would be if i was an older gentleman that did not want to see my money get wasted in a nursing home but being of working age then i would never live there !

i think it offers nothing other then a great holiday destination 3 weeks then home would be sufficient .

i have really come to love America been here 5 years now and feel it is my home i get to work and play , own a home in my name and get treated great by Americans, there's not a double price for me and to be perfectly honest i get a huge cultural pass here . Before i came to live here i had a perception that Americans were general loudmouths but you could not be further from the truth especially here in the great pacific northwest GIVE ME AMERICA ANY DAY OVER THAILAND only downside to here is that work is your life but that's coming from someone born in a socialist country so i could be wrong there!

If you think the US Pacific NW is wonderful, try going north to Canada's left coast. Being Canadian living in Thailand for well over 6 years I know the enchantment the Pacific NW has. Nothing like, period.

I grew up in the Pacific NW close to Canada's left coast, and now 9 years in Thailand.

While I miss the good things Chrisandsu brings out, it was exactly his one negative point (your work is your life) that drove me away. I decided I wanted a fuller life, and have it now in Thailand. I work a full time job here, but the lower stress level and "mai pben rai" work style makes me feel semi-retired with LOTS of extra time to spend with people I love, pursue hobbies, travel, and a hundred other things I could not do in the 40 years of my work life in the USA.

To each their own.

[thaibeachlovers]

100% agree with some things, but not all. Have you tried running a biz here? A food cart? Impossible unless you bribe the police, and even then, pretty much impossible. The work rules here are very strict. No so in the US.

As far a competition here, it's no holds barred. Somebody can open up shop right next to you with the exact same name and products. Nothing you can do. Some have done very well here in Thailand, many have not.

I agree the US has gone overboard on rules and regulations, but many are very, very good. Like drunk driving, medical malpractice, food safety, etc.

I think it is likely easier for a Thai to open a business in the USA than for a farang to open a business in Thailand. But the millions of food carts suggest it is quite easy for a Thai to start their own small food business. I think the bribes are just the grease to get things going, and it turns out cheaper and faster.

But the USA has evolved beyond simple bribery to making it part of the system. One has to hire a union worker and pay a minimum amount of hours to carry a ten pound package from your van to a display stand in McCormick Place for an exhibition there.

A friend wanted to open a hot dog stand in Houston, it would cost him $25,000 up front because of all the regulations. Another friend had a small consulting company with less than 50 people, he got sued 4 times in less than 4 years, and he is a very careful CEO / manager. He won all the law suits, but a less skillfull person would have had to pay up. The only one that made money in those situations were the lawyers, and guess who makes the rules in the USA?

Now we have speed traps with camera detectors and $100 – $1000 tickets.

We in the USA we have to hire a lawyer to do virtually any sort of business at all, and anyone with any sort of money has a lawyer on retainer. All of our elected officials are also lawyers.

We don't call it a bribes, we call it rules.

Yes, over regulated perhaps, BUT all that regulation is what brings us things like

1) safer food

2) safer buildings and other structures

3) better police protection

4) better property protection

5) better personal injury protection

6) better workplace protection

7) better child protection

8) better education

9) better overall individual liberties

etc

The laws are what made western society great. I don't get down on them too much, but I certainly to empathize with you as to their burden.

If the laws stopped there, no one would complain. Unfortunately, there are so many laws now that do nothing but irritate everyone. Remember when the EU wanted to regulate the curve on bananas?

The west is drowning in laws that do nothing but make our lives more difficult and cost more.

[bonobo]

Why buy property in the US, or anywhere for that matter? All it does is tie up your capital and eat away at your funds with maintenance, taxes, insurance, etc... Unless you are planning on leasing the property out to offset the expense, although that has another set of issues to consider, plus this defeats the purpose of having a place to stay while in the US. Leasing / renting is far more cost effective and offers you to capacity to live in different regions of the US that you might want to explore. Owning property ties you to a place, while renting gives you options. Then there is the elephant in the room, which is what has happened to the US real estate market in the last few years.

As far as your house full of "stuff", sell it or give it to family. Getting rid of your "stuff" is a cathartic experience. Your stuff is an anchor around your neck which causes you to believe that you need a place to keep it. I had three households full of stuff that I felt that I could not part with. Through much angst, I got it down to one. I then moved cities a couple times and each time as I was packing / unpacking items, I began to question just why I was keeping all this crap. It boiled down to sentimental value and family heirlooms. The solution was simple once I changed my mindset as I sold what I did not give to family. My "stuff" in the US will now fit into a single Pod container, which has minimal storage costs when I travel.

George Carlin's view on "stuff"

I feel better with property. I do own property in the US free and clear, which I rent now, but unfortunately, not in any place I want to live. Call it my security blanket, but I get stressed if I don't have a "home."

As far as "stuff," I have gotten rid of over 50% so far. My heirlooms, books, and art are not going anywhere, but I may be keeping my grand piano for a number of reasons. When I get back to the US next month to empty the house, I will be getting rid of at least another 50% of what is left (to include all my electronics, such as my McIntosh amp and preamp and Infinity Reference Standard speakers--things I thought I would keep forever.)

[johnbits]

[

Yes, over regulated perhaps, BUT all that regulation is what brings us things like

1) safer food

2) safer buildings and other structures

3) better police protection

4) better property protection

5) better personal injury protection

6) better workplace protection

7) better child protection

8) better education

9) better overall individual liberties

etc

The laws are what made western society great. I don't get down on them too much, but I certainly to empathize with you as to their burden.

I think we passed inflextion point 15 years ago, now the laws are created IMO to protect entrenched interest both corporate and political. You can be too safe, and if you live in a bubble the first germ you get inflected with will kill you. And likely a law will be passed to protect the bubble people from the first germ. Now children can theaten parents with a call to the Gov, do you think children are better behaved in Thailand or the USA?

It should be obvious one can go to far in the name of safety.

USA is number 1 in Obesity and #36 in life expectancy. Yet we spend more than any other country on health care. There is a growing income dispartiy, more people on food stamps than ever before, so something isn't working the way you would expect.

[craigt3365]

Try Flagstaff or Sedona and spend your winters here. That's what I'd do if I could, given children in school concerns, since prices haven't come down a bit in Incline Village.

My brother now lives in Flag...unfortunately, it's year round! Incredibly cold right now....but incredibly beautiful in the summer. He said 80% of his neighbors are now gone.

Sedona is beautiful also, but really hot in the summer and super touristy...great place if you like crystals and vortexes.

[craigt3365]

Two posts have been removed from view. Let's keep this on topic and not let it get political, OK?

[craigt3365]

Here's a related thread....only dealing with the UK vs. Thailand:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/521977-moved-back-to-uk-recentlyarrrgghhh/

[jefftd77]

I lived/worked in Phuket from 2001-2004 and when i first got back to Canada, I thought it was the right move... But now after being here (Vancouver, BC) for almost 8 years... I'm heading back again...

The weather, the great attitudes and the food are all bringing me back

Hope to travel around a little more this time... Not like last time where tourists that were there for 2 weeks... saw more of the country than I did in 3 years!

This time, I can't see myself going back to Canada anytime soon

Jeff

Edited December 28, 2011 by jefftd77

[xthAi76s]

[

Yes, over regulated perhaps, BUT all that regulation is what brings us things like

1) safer food

2) safer buildings and other structures

3) better police protection

4) better property protection

5) better personal injury protection

6) better workplace protection

7) better child protection

8) better education

9) better overall individual liberties

etc

The laws are what made western society great. I don't get down on them too much, but I certainly to empathize with you as to their burden.

I think we passed inflextion point 15 years ago, now the laws are created IMO to protect entrenched interest both corporate and political. You can be too safe, and if you live in a bubble the first germ you get inflected with will kill you. And likely a law will be passed to protect the bubble people from the first germ. Now children can theaten parents with a call to the Gov, do you think children are better behaved in Thailand or the USA?

It should be obvious one can go to far in the name of safety.

USA is number 1 in Obesity and #36 in life expectancy. Yet we spend more than any other country on health care. There is a growing income dispartiy, more people on food stamps than ever before, so something isn't working the way you would expect.

I agree, there are many problems with the US. Indeed, the entire world and all our civilization seems most fragile.

In the US, most issues, though, IMO, you can avoid if you are fortunate enough to have decent $$. Of course, that is true in many parts of world. Give a man enough money, and he can make a home most anywhere ... The big issue for most people in the US will be whether the US can provide as much opportunity to the population as it did historically. Will the many millions of immigrants continue to come for education and to stay which has been one of the greatest successes of the US? Will the government be able to encourage and support financial risk taking/entrepreneurship which was likely the single thing that brought the US so much success over the past couple hundred years? And perhaps almost as important, will the education system in the country renew itself to be more in line with the competition being faced around the world (Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, perhaps next Beijing)?

What gives me faith (not blind faith) in the US system is that it is endlessly malleable. It can adapt. We openly discuss issues. We elect leaders (most of whom are not always what we needed, but we elect them nonetheless). We have laws for the process of change management which are by-and-large followed rather faithfully. I think the first step is the continuation of the reformation of the primary education systems in the country. That has been happening the last decade or so and has picked up pace. It will not be easy, and there will be missteps, but still what makes America so hopeful is that the culture is not old nor rigid and the population is somewhat fickle making reform and change pretty rapid. Try telling Thailand to change certain things it holds sacred or Greece to stop living rather lazily by European standards... It won't work in those places, at least certainly not as easily.

Interesting to note that, according to this source, the US is said to be still more innovative than the Japanese by 15% but the Japanese win by percentage terms: http://www.nationmas...tes/eco-economy

Edited December 28, 2011 by ThailandMan

[kdadane]

I wasn't born in America but was raised in Calif.'s Central Valley. The ability to make a decent living without working 6 days a week with lots of OT is getting harder and harder. Wages are getting lower and lower for blue collar type jobs. Work all year for maybe 2 weeks of vacation.

Would I bring my Thai wife and newborn baby to America to live - Don't think so. Have them leave the small village environment, leave all their blood family behind. No more sharing lunch with family and friends, help with anything is in the village. I've tried to explain to her about taxes, building permits and all the rest of the endless rules that America has. As for the baby's education - There are schools with English Classes 20 minutes away. My only fear is she'll speak with a BRIT accent.HAHAHAHAAA Oh Well...... The entire social atmosphere in America's school system isn't appealing. Private schools would be the best.

As I'm away from Thailand 5 months at a time working overseas and only spend 2 months at a time with my ladies I haven't yet spent a long stretch in the village.

By staying in Thailand I have the option to retire early. Ah what do I know............God Bless America

[geriatrickid]

why did I respond to an old thread, jeez. sorry.

Edited December 28, 2011 by geriatrickid

[farang000999]

I would say that it is much easier to do business in the USA. In fact, as soon as someone gets a Green Card it is the same as telling them they will never jump through another hoop again. Next they get the SS card, the application process took a whole 15 minutes so they can start paying taxes and then receiving benefits in the future. At this point they have essentially the full rights of an American citizen besides voting and can actually apply for citizenship at some point in the future, whereas Farang in Thailand have almost zero rights and the Thai Kangaroo Courts are based only on the ability to pay/know people higher up. You never know when Visa/Business regulations will change on the whim, good luck if you ever get divorced and your wife kidnaps your child. You can't legally own land or your business outright.

This type of environment will continue to attract the world's brightest. Not to mention the best universities in the world.

Yes the US economy is terrible and political scene and endless war is killing the country. But, unlike Thailand, the US can actually turn it around at some point. There are honest elections. Americans just have to stop being so lazy. In Thailand, nothing ever gets better because the society is setup that way. Has there ever been an honest Thai politician? Policemen go around murdering people in plan view without recourse? Government controlled media. No freedom of expression.

Thailand surely has it's good points but they have little to do with government policy,

Edited December 28, 2011 by farang000999

[Berkshire]

Policemen go around murdering people in plan view without recourse? Government controlled media. No freedom of expression.

This is quite an exaggeration. If you believe Thailand is like this, then yes, you'll have much more peace-of-mind back in the states. As for censorship, there's really only one topic that's off-limits. Big deal.

[farang000999]

you obviously know more about thailand than me but can you comment on this?

"The judgment of Thai courts may not be criticized. After a controversial ruling in July 2006 in which the Criminal Court jailed three Election Commissioners, the court worked with the police to identify 16 individuals who were captured on TV news footage criticizing the judgement.^[27] The Court later found all the individuals guilty and gave jail terms to 4 of them. The maximum jail sentence for the offense is seven years.^[28]"

Edited December 29, 2011 by farang000999

[farang000999]

Also this

After the military coup of September 2006, the junta sent tanks and troops to secure all television stations. Junta leaders demanded the censorship of news reports and opinion polls that might be negative to the military.^[29] Thai television broadcasters did not air footage of demonstrations against the coup.^[30] Local cable broadcasts of CNN, BBC, CNBC, NHK, and several other foreign news channels were censored, with any footage involving former Premier Thaksin blacked out.^[31]

[farang000999]

When you said "one topic" did you mean the government and all Thai people higher on the social ladder than you

lol

Edited December 29, 2011 by farang000999