Warrant Sought In Connection With Kirsty Jones Murder In Chiang Mai

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Warrant Sought in Connection With Kirsty Jones Murder In Chiang Mai

Published by Andrew Drummond

BBC Wales

Thai police investigating the murder of Kirsty Jones will have to seek a warrant to forcefully carry out a DNA test on a Chiang Mai University professor after the academic refused to supply a sample voluntarily.

Police sources here confirmed yesterday that the request made by Dyfed-Powys Police in Britain had been rebuffed by the professor after he was approached by Thailand’s Department of Special investigating of the murder and rape of Kirsty, 24, in Chiang Mai in August 2000.

They stressed that this could not be in any way considered an admission of guilt. The sample was required to rule the professor out of the enquiry. The professor had strongly denied having anything to do with Kirsty. To secure DNA sample they would now have to go through legal channels.

It is understood the DSI are fearful they may be sued if they take any shortcuts, as the professor is a respected member of the community.

Nevertheless the refusal is another set -back for the investigation into the murder and rape of Kirsty Jones which happened 11 years ago this month in Chiang Mai in £3 a night lodgings then known as the Aree Guest House.

It is also distressing to Kirsty Jones’ family, from Tredomen, Brecon, who were hoping the matter would be dealt with quickly.

Police in Chiang Mai, the Thai northern capital, were heavily criticised at the time for their bungling of the case. At the time they did not appear to be so concerned about short cuts. They arrested the British guest house owner Andrew Gill, 32, but released him after his DNA did not match the killer's, who must have [more...]

Full story: http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story.php?sid=428

-- andrew-drummond.com 2011-08-13

related topic:

British police seek DNA test on academic in connection with rape and murder of backpacker in Thailand

[Steely Dan]

Hmmm, 'Respected member of the community' refuses DNA test. I think many will be tempted to draw their own conclusions, all that remains to be answered is how they decide to bury this case again, this time forever.

[DiamondKing]

Hmmm, 'Respected member of the community' refuses DNA test. I think many will be tempted to draw their own conclusions, all that remains to be answered is how they decide to bury this case again, this time forever.

Whats to stop someone following this guy and if he smokes and throws away a cigarette nub then just bag it and send it to the UK or a can of coke soda if he blows his nose there are many ways to get his DNA without him actually giving it as once he abandons these things ie empty glass, cigarette etc it anyone for the taking.

Many cases have been solved that way.

Might not be completely legal to prosecute but will certainly give the family some sort of relief showing if he is or is not the killer before having to wait another 11 years just to get the court order.

Either way its by not voluntarily taking a DNA test it implies rightly or wrongly that he has something to hide by refusing a DNA test as any innocent person would be willing to freely give it knowing it would come back negative.

Is this guy Thai or a Foreigner ???

DK

Edited August 13, 2011 by DiamondKing

[andrewdrummond]

Hmmm, 'Respected member of the community' refuses DNA test. I think many will be tempted to draw their own conclusions, all that remains to be answered is how they decide to bury this case again, this time forever.

Whats to stop someone following this guy and if he smokes and throws away a cigarette nub then just bag it and send it to the UK or a can of coke soda if he blows his nose there are many ways to get his DNA without him actually giving it as once he abandons these things ie empty glass, cigarette etc it anyone for the taking.

Many cases have been solved that way.

Either way its an indication on his guilt by refusing a DNA test as any innocent person would be willing to freely give it knowing it would come back negative.

Is this guy Thai or a Foreigner ???

DK

This man is Thai. I think we should still be a little cautious. I do not think he realises that by refusing the test he is dragging this out and causing more grief. If he is innocent he might think well that's a bl**dy cheek asking for my DNA w/o taking the family into consideration.

On the other hand murders in Thailand, as I have found out can and are committed by anyone whatever their social standing, and I am concerned about a letter sent to andrew-drummond.com on an earler story sent by a television producer who filmed with the policeman in question. That is in the story 'Britain asked Thai authorites...etc'

Whatever which way I am sure his DNA will be established soon provided he does not take extended leave.

Edited August 13, 2011 by andrewdrummond

[ToffeEFCpower]

What's stopping the police arresting this guy under suspicion of murder just like they did with the farang guest house owner?

[guzzi850m2]

What's stopping the police arresting this guy under suspicion of murder just like they did with the farang guest house owner?

I agree, but this is LOS so this professer have high placed friends whereas nobody care about the farang, sad but true.

I hope they get his DNA one way or another so the poor girl's famlie can get some piece.

[DiamondKing]

What's stopping the police arresting this guy under suspicion of murder just like they did with the farang guest house owner?

I agree, but this is LOS so this professer have high placed friends whereas nobody care about the farang, sad but true.

I hope they get his DNA one way or another so the poor girl's famlie can get some piece.

They could easily get it if they wanted, the family could even hire a thai PI and get it very easily just to find out once and for all I dont think there is much chance that the Thai Police will push this too much its been 11 years already and if this guy was involved at that time all suspects should of been tested just like the farang owner whom i am sure willingly volunteered his DNA knowing he was innocent.

I hope also the family get some sort of peace its been way too long already

[IMBabaBobo]

People cannot be arrested on suspicion. There must be probable cause, which is very different. The former arrest of the guest house owner may or may not have been legal, depending on the evidence they had at the time.

Following someone to collect their DNA would not follow the unbroken chain-of-evidence rules and would be illegal to use in any manner, plus would be open to a lawsuit, especially if it was made public. In countries that follow standards of international law, the police cannot collect samples of DNA without the owner's permission. To do it serendipitously, and analyse it it would need a record of the time and money spent to process it through a lab, and that would be illegal, so there is no way to do it without chancing someone going to jail.

You guys watch too much CSI.

[chaoyang]

This man is Thai. I think we should still be a little cautious. I do not think he realises that by refusing the test he is dragging this out and causing more grief. If he is innocent he might think well that's a bl**dy cheek asking for my DNA w/o taking the family into consideration.

On the other hand murders in Thailand, as I have found out can and are committed by anyone whatever their social standing, and I am concerned about a letter sent to andrew-drummond.com on an earler story sent by a television producer who filmed with the policeman in question. That is in the story 'Britain asked Thai authorites...etc'

Whatever which way I am sure his DNA will be established soon provided he does not take extended leave.

If the producers of that TV show have something to contribute to solving this horrendous case I hope they have made their information known to the Welsh police. I have seen repeated references to the fact that this notorious tourist policeman was tested and cleared by DNA -- but I don't see any details on who collected the DNA and who tested it.

If the DNA was collected by the Thai police, then you know how much that is worth. If the Welsh police themselves collected it directly from the policeman and tested it, then time to look at his associates. He was indeed seen outside the guesthouse that night and anyone who has had the misfortune to have had dealings with this guy -- and I have -- knows that anything could be possible with him.

There certainly has been a serious ongoing effort to cover up for someone.

Edited August 13, 2011 by chaoyang

[ThePunPun]

Just a thought.....

At the time just after the murder and rape, a DNA sample was collected..... most likely semen from the victim.

In running new tests samples from possible new suspects, they would have to be compared with/to the original DNA sample from the victim...

If a highly placed and prominent individual was suspect, what chance do you think the original DNA sample has of going missing.....???

A lot of evidence has a way of disappearing in this country

[EyesWideOpen]

Of course he is guilty, otherwise there is no reason whatsoever to refuse a DNA test. I l really like this bit from the Drummond article.'

" A tourist guide from the Karen hill-tribe, whose tour Kirsty had joined, announced at a police press conference that he was kidnapped by plain-clothed police, taken to a house, and beaten in an attempt to get a confession.

Narong Pojanathanrongpong (right) said police even tried to masturbate him,to obtain a sperm sample which he feared they might introduce to the crime scene."

I always thought police beatings of innocent people to get confessions was a Thai urban myth. Apparently not......My absolute contempt for the Thai police has just reached a new low. Fire them all, and start fresh.

[edgarfriendly]

is this the girl who the police said was murdered because she refused anal sex?

what was this statement based upon?

11 yrs and still 'gathering' evidence??

[chaoyang]

I lived in Chiang Mai for 14 years and spent a few of them running around the seedy bar scene. In that time I met a few Thai guys who have some money or a little power and speak good English that have developed an unhealthy obsession for Western women.

In my all-too-extensive forays into the underbelly of Chiang Mai, I met only a couple of guys who could fit the profile that for me would mean:

Speaks very good English

Heavy drinker

Known history of involvement with Western women

Money or connections

I don't want to be insensitive to the Jones family, but my feeling has always been that Kirsty was spotted walking home from the Night Bazaar (where she was last seen by her friends) by one of these guys (or two of them out together) who were drinking at a bar, most likely along Moon Muang, as she made her way to the Aree -- which was just up from the old Viking Bar and around the corner from the Kafe Bar -- and followed there.

Myself I have never thought that a trekking guide or tuk-tuk driver would have the arrogance to try this. Given the extent of the foot-dragging and cover up, it looks like someone with connections who thinks he's a big enough guy to get away with it.

I don't mean to spin a crazy, fictional scenario, but over the long time that has passed, it is only one that now makes sense to me.

[bitterbatter]

It is bizarre that this case is still open. A few years after the fact I came to Chiang Mai, I stayed at the guesthouse which now was under new ownership. A few times I felt a presence in my room, only to find out later that I was sleeping in the very bed she was murdered in. If I could talk to ghosts, I would have asked her who did it.

[arrowsdawdle]

Hmmm, 'Respected member of the community' refuses DNA test. I think many will be tempted to draw their own conclusions, all that remains to be answered is how they decide to bury this case again, this time forever.

Whats to stop someone following this guy and if he smokes and throws away a cigarette nub then just bag it and send it to the UK or a can of coke soda if he blows his nose there are many ways to get his DNA without him actually giving it as once he abandons these things ie empty glass, cigarette etc it anyone for the taking.

Many cases have been solved that way.

Might not be completely legal to prosecute but will certainly give the family some sort of relief showing if he is or is not the killer before having to wait another 11 years just to get the court order.

Either way its by not voluntarily taking a DNA test it implies rightly or wrongly that he has something to hide by refusing a DNA test as any innocent person would be willing to freely give it knowing it would come back negative.

Is this guy Thai or a Foreigner ???

DK

This method of scavenging DNA tends be suitable for knowing the answer before requesting a test which would then be admissable in court.

[starcandle]

Why do the family not engage a private detective to follow him and wait for him to throw away a drinks cannister, ciggie butt, tissue or somthing like that, the other way is to take away his rubbish bag and rifle that for evidence, if the sample has been discarded by the person then its no longer their property or even if the evidence for some miraculous reason is not allowed into court, then everyone knows who did it and that would put pressure on the law to act.

[parryg]

This is a disgrace 11 yrs and their still talking about how to get someone's DNA, I can understand these wranglings in the 1st six months, but not 11 yrs later. They didn't mind jumping on the British owner, or the Karen Tribe tour guide, but they can't offend a professor. The law is the same for everybody or at least that's how it should be. I feel for the family the anguish they are suffering so unnecessarily.

[jdinasia]

What's stopping the police arresting this guy under suspicion of murder just like they did with the farang guest house owner?

Lack of evidence.

Making any assumptions about what MIGHT be legal in the way of evidence gathering elsewhere and applying it to Thailand just doesn't work. (evidence collected by a P.I. would not have any official chain of custody etc etc)

Apparently, at the current time there is not enough evidence to compel a person of interest in an 11 year old murder case to give a DNA sample. That could change, but I doubt it.

[F1fanatic]

How depressing .

It seems unlikely that the murderer will be found after 11 years.

This is the first time I've heard about this murder so I'm wondering why we have a new suspect so many years later?

My thoughts go out to her family who must be going through hell.

[skorchio]

Even if a sample was (forcefully by a PI) obtained from the professor, the sample in evidence is in the care of the authorities. If they don't want to compare, they simply won't cooperate. And it seems they don't want to cooperate.

If this professor is innocent, he is obviously a turd. There is a family on the other side of the world in agony of grief, and his voluntary participation would at least focus their anguish on something else. Maybe they could accept that they will not get closure. But leaving them like this is torture.

[jdinasia]

Even if a sample was (forcefully by a PI) obtained from the professor, the sample in evidence is in the care of the authorities. If they don't want to compare, they simply won't cooperate. And it seems they don't want to cooperate.

If this professor is innocent, he is obviously a turd. There is a family on the other side of the world in agony of grief, and his voluntary participation would at least focus their anguish on something else. Maybe they could accept that they will not get closure. But leaving them like this is torture.

The professor is innocent until proven guilty and legally you can make no assumptions based upon him not voluntarily giving up DNA in an 11 year old case where the authorities have already gone after 2 other people. He's not a turd at all, he is simply not waiving his rights. The legal system does not operate on the grounds that a suspect must prove his innocence ... and if he gave his DNA and it didn't match the parents would still not know a thing.

[LomSak27]

Since I've always considerd another as prime suspect (unless they got a new job) I'd most likely refuse a DNA test too, given the Thai police sterling reputation at supplying "suspects"

[sfm]

The professor is innocent until proven guilty and legally you can make no assumptions based upon him not voluntarily giving up DNA ...

Correct, no "assumptions" here.

It is proven, beyond reasonable doubt, that he is at the very best a weak and despicable person, who has no intention to help the police and the relatives.

What he might be, at the worst, speaks for itself.

He's not a turd at all, he is simply not waiving his rights.

You seem to have the opinion that whatever you are allowed to do, by the law, also is an acceptable thing to do, regardless of what pain it may cause other people.

The legal system does not operate on the grounds that a suspect must prove his innocence ...

No, it operates on the ground that some people help the police for the benefit of society.

We all have the "right" to shut up and say nothing.

and if he gave his DNA and it didn't match the parents would still not know a thing.

Yes, they would know that this person was not the rapist and murderer.

Eliminating suspects is a fundamental procedure in all police work.

Instead he tortures the relatives with the suspicion.

[LomSak27]

Yes, they would know that this person was not the rapist and murderer.

Eliminating suspects is a fundamental procedure in all police work.

Instead he tortures the relatives with the suspicion.

Unless 'someone' has changed occupations this is nothing more than another red herring drawn across the path by the men in brown. Or do you have some info into the case? all ears

[OriginalPoster]

Hmmm, 'Respected member of the community' refuses DNA test. I think many will be tempted to draw their own conclusions, all that remains to be answered is how they decide to bury this case again, this time forever.

Thailand uses an innocent until proven guilty system, no? I'd refuse too, I'd say demonstrate probable cause and get a court order or tell my why your accusations aren't slander.

[Wallaby]

People have their own reasons for not giving DNA or evidence etc. Perhaps he is guilty of unrelated crimes and the DNA could end up with him being guilty of those. Perhaps he just does not trust the BiB who may replace the old DNA found on the girl to his DNA. Conspiracy theory I know, but who knows what goes through a person's mind.

We've had a murder investigation in oz going on for 8 years and tonight they finally charged a man. This is after 3 other people had confessed to the murder. Some people just do some very strange things and make very strange decisions.

I'm not sure of the law in Thailand on such matters but can a person in custody be compelled to give DNA? Surely they have some sort of evidence that warranted their request for a DNA sample from him or did they just randomly choose him?

After all this time I hope the guy did the murder, would give some closure to the victims family. I fear if it isn't him then the murderer would never be found after all this time.

[softgeorge]

What's stopping the police arresting this guy under suspicion of murder just like they did with the farang guest house owner?

I agree, but this is LOS so this professer have high placed friends whereas nobody care about the farang, sad but true.

I hope they get his DNA one way or another so the poor girl's famlie can get some piece.

They could easily get it if they wanted, the family could even hire a thai PI and get it very easily just to find out once and for all I dont think there is much chance that the Thai Police will push this too much its been 11 years already and if this guy was involved at that time all suspects should of been tested just like the farang owner whom i am sure willingly volunteered his DNA knowing he was innocent.

I hope also the family get some sort of peace its been way too long already

I lot of people on here no very little about DNA evidence. Just follow him and see if he drops a cigarette butt, get a coke can he drank from or hire a P.I, please people stop watching to many movies and Television shows. Sure you can get DNA from such methods but it would never be admissable in court. (cross contamination) In cases such as this (murder) a court order (warrant for evidence) is sought in the 1st instance to avoid the evidence been thrown out of court. The proceedure will be video taped, the DNA will be obtained freely or by force if neccessay involving at least two people. One obtains the sample (generally a mouth swab) and another is a witness to the proceedure. The samples (3) defendant (suspect) police and forensic sample will be enclosed in a tube and sealed to prevent contamination. The suspect signs that the sample was taken from him, the person taking the sample signs as does the witness who also makes a statement to the fact. The sample is the conveyed for forensic testing and the person conveying it makes a statement on continuity that he took sample A to destination XYZ and gave it to person XXX who signs for it. Cutting it short the whole procedure is very exact eliminating any doubts. I have personally done it myself a number of times.

I think the biggest problem police will have in this case is wether or not the Thai courts will grant a warrant for the death of a farang 11 yrs ago. Not to mention the suspect is a high profile and well respected member of society as the article states. Will the police involved in obtaining the sample take all steps to ensure it continuity and also those involved in the analysis. With DNA it only takes a wisker of doubt in it's continuity and the evidence is gone. Taking a sample from a suspect wrapping it in you hanky and putting it in your pocket for safe keeping just does not cut it. They will not get two warrants for the same piece of evidence.

[TerraPosse]

What's stopping the police arresting this guy under suspicion of murder just like they did with the farang guest house owner?

Lack of evidence.

Making any assumptions about what MIGHT be legal in the way of evidence gathering elsewhere and applying it to Thailand just doesn't work. (evidence collected by a P.I. would not have any official chain of custody etc etc)

Apparently, at the current time there is not enough evidence to compel a person of interest in an 11 year old murder case to give a DNA sample. That could change, but I doubt it.

Glad not everyone is of the 'shoot-first-ask-later' faction. I'd not handing out my DNA willy-nilly to anyone in authority who comes along asking for it either. Especially to the imbeciles iB who clearly seem a bit on a fishing exercise after 11 years. Who knows what they'd concoct up with it.

[Wallaby]

Just one other thing to consider....a DNA match doesn't mean the person is guilty, just means he had contact with her, or sex with her. Doesn't mean he committed a crime. One must have corroborating evidence to go with it.

[Payboy]

Narong Pojanathanrongpong (right) said police even tried to masturbate him,to obtain a sperm sample which he feared they might introduce to the crime scene."

Talk about a shakedown!

Suppose, Narong can consider himself lucky he was not at the receiving end of a sperm donation from the BIB.